Potential Future Balance Changes - PvP

[Chaith.8256]

@mortrialus.3062 said:And to be honest, all of the sustain traits and all of the sustain utilities on holosmith can be hard disabled and it probably won't be enough.

You've descended into absurdity dude. Without holosmith sustain utilities and traits you have squishy core engi.

[Shocky.7356]

Hey Cal Cohan,

i would highly appreciate it if you guy could deactivate bufffood in pvp :) thanks

[ZDragon.3046]

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said :Actually axe is rly not as bad as most ppl think. I think the weapons is in a good spot. Played around with it lately in case staff will be trash after nerfs.

When is the last time an axe mirage kill you ?What can you say about my why is axe bad ?

I don't know what to say about your axe opinion. I thought it is bad too until i tried it and it worked well. When you care for your axe 2 use you don't rly get interrupted during that. Axe 3 is still an insane skill. Don't use Sage amulet with axe and the dmg is good. That was my experience at least. It was already a decent use, when now everyhting else will get nerfed axe will be even better most likely.

^ this

[Arheundel.6451]

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:You can kite pets. Rock Gazelle hurts but I don't think ranger is as egregious as you're claiming now, especially with the unblockable synergy soulbeast had being trimmed.

I have to say i dont agree with you here which is strange.Pets can be kited only if the ranger does not run beast mastery which most do run.

Otherwise the pet has far-greater mobility passively than you do as a player in combat let alone ones that have dashes, leaps, blinks, etc There is no realistic kiting them at general in combat speeds.

The only way you avoid pets generally is if you have constant access to superspeed or stealth which breaks their targeting causing them to run back to the pet owner or to another target till you re appear this might be enough of a gap to make pets seem avoidable. But generally on most professions that cannot stealth often there is no kiting the pet. The pet is going to get you how much it gets you depends on the situation.

The pets are viable mostly at point blank range even with beastmastery traited because 80% of pet attacks are 1s+ cast time and with stop animation , the more skilled the opponents the harder to land any pet attack as you need to find gaps in the enemy defensive rotations and even if manage that..the rock gazelle is the only one that can deal huge power burst due to a bug when it happens...other pets can deal as much dmg as an AA from a warrior or thief..which is still good in my opinion.

The main reason why rangers are forced to get beastmastery is because Anet (apologetically) said that increasing attck/speed of core pets would cause problems with the same models used in the core game hence why HoT/PoF pets are better overall.

Pets are the ranger mechanic and they're part of the dmg not a separate entity like people want to believe, without the pets the overall dmg of rangers drop by a lot...almost by 70% , outside couple heavy hitting skills ( maul and rapid fire ) the DPS of ranger is rather lacklustre ; considering the fact that PvP offers a more controlled DPS environment, a PvE benchmark can be used more effectively to demonstrate what I am saying.

My only gripe about ranger pets is that attempting to kill the pet is not a viable strategy to reduce the rangers effectiveness (currently). The pets that are not the birds are generally as tanky as another player and can be swapped too easily on demand or revived via soul beast fusion with no punishment. In pvp or wvw if you are under attack by a ranger killing the pet should be a viable option to reducing the rangers effectiveness. But you dont really have that choice so you have to ignore the pet and just avoid its key skills for the most part.

P.S I don't justify bugged attacks like rock gazelle and with that said I believe that tanky pets should offer support option for the player and only rock gazelle remains outside the spectrum and possibly bristleback, but I do expect squishy pets, that die in a couple aoe , to deal as much dmg as other profession auto-attacks in the 1-2k range ..anything less would be completely unreasonable

Any pet that can perform a Disabling attack even more so attacks that are not commanded by the ranger do need to be made more visible imo. Some pets have these kind of things others dont.

I'd love to see more DPS oriented pets like bird/felines where they're squishy but do hit hard or utility pets like bears/moa and some canine that do far less dmg but arguably ( need some buffs here ) offer more support utility . As I have explained pets are the ranger mechanic and asking to disable another profession mechanic for a limited amount of time it's not really an option..unless you allow ranger to effectively stop mesmers from casting clones for 60s or prevent a thief from restealthing or stopping a warrior from gaining adrenaline.

I can understand people asking to remove tanky pets with DPS as that should not be allowed but asking to easily kill pets and leave rangers helpless for 20s+ it's not really an argument, it sounds more like a bad joke than a good idea

well people kill mesmer clones in one hit and they can't shatter, mesmer can only resummon it easy if they trait for it, why rangers should be different and pets can't die having 40k hp? rangers have a backup pet already and they should put a cd of 60s after the pet dies to ress.

today i was playing pvp and i killed the ranger and he left me with 20% of my life, i was trying to finish him and the pet was stunning me while the ranger was downed, the pet killed me then the pet ressed him because my class don't have a stun while downed, but he could only do that because in the middle of the fight i was not able to kill the pet because he would ress just be changing it, tell me how is that fair?

1) no pet has 40k HP2) there is already a 60s CD for dead pets3) comparing pets to clones is absurd...maybe they should add a 60s CD for each clone destroyed also

[mortrialus.3062]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:And to be honest, all of the sustain traits and all of the sustain utilities on holosmith can be hard disabled and it probably won't be enough.

You've descended into absurdity dude. Without holosmith sustain utilities and traits you have squishy core engi.

I suppose we'll never know

But at the end of the day if Scrapper makes core engineer more defensive and less offensive, it only stands to logic that holosmith should make core engineer less defensive and more offensive.

Like if you don't think with photon forge holosmith won't be able to make do with Healing Turret, Elixir S, Rocket Boots, or W/E utilities are currently just under S tier you're kidding yourself.

But I just guess that makes too much sense.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:You can kite pets. Rock Gazelle hurts but I don't think ranger is as egregious as you're claiming now, especially with the unblockable synergy soulbeast had being trimmed.

I have to say i dont agree with you here which is strange.Pets can be kited only if the ranger does not run beast mastery which most do run.

Otherwise the pet has far-greater mobility passively than you do as a player in combat let alone ones that have dashes, leaps, blinks, etc There is no realistic kiting them at general in combat speeds.

The only way you avoid pets generally is if you have constant access to superspeed or stealth which breaks their targeting causing them to run back to the pet owner or to another target till you re appear this might be enough of a gap to make pets seem avoidable. But generally on most professions that cannot stealth often there is no kiting the pet. The pet is going to get you how much it gets you depends on the situation.

The pets are viable mostly at point blank range even with beastmastery traited because 80% of pet attacks are 1s+ cast time and with stop animation , the more skilled the opponents the harder to land any pet attack as you need to find gaps in the enemy defensive rotations and even if manage that..the rock gazelle is the only one that can deal huge power burst due to a bug when it happens...other pets can deal as much dmg as an AA from a warrior or thief..which is still good in my opinion.

The main reason why rangers are forced to get beastmastery is because Anet (apologetically) said that increasing attck/speed of core pets would cause problems with the same models used in the core game hence why HoT/PoF pets are better overall.

Pets are the ranger mechanic and they're part of the dmg not a separate entity like people want to believe, without the pets the overall dmg of rangers drop by a lot...almost by 70% , outside couple heavy hitting skills ( maul and rapid fire ) the DPS of ranger is rather lacklustre ; considering the fact that PvP offers a more controlled DPS environment, a PvE benchmark can be used more effectively to demonstrate what I am saying.

My only gripe about ranger pets is that attempting to kill the pet is not a viable strategy to reduce the rangers effectiveness (currently). The pets that are not the birds are generally as tanky as another player and can be swapped too easily on demand or revived via soul beast fusion with no punishment. In pvp or wvw if you are under attack by a ranger killing the pet should be a viable option to reducing the rangers effectiveness. But you dont really have that choice so you have to ignore the pet and just avoid its key skills for the most part.

P.S I don't justify bugged attacks like rock gazelle and with that said I believe that tanky pets should offer support option for the player and only rock gazelle remains outside the spectrum and possibly bristleback, but I do expect squishy pets, that die in a couple aoe , to deal as much dmg as other profession auto-attacks in the 1-2k range ..anything less would be completely unreasonable

Any pet that can perform a Disabling attack even more so attacks that are not commanded by the ranger do need to be made more visible imo. Some pets have these kind of things others dont.

I'd love to see more DPS oriented pets like bird/felines where they're squishy but do hit hard or utility pets like bears/moa and some canine that do far less dmg but arguably ( need some buffs here ) offer more support utility . As I have explained pets are the ranger mechanic and asking to disable another profession mechanic for a limited amount of time it's not really an option..unless you allow ranger to effectively stop mesmers from casting clones for 60s or prevent a thief from restealthing or stopping a warrior from gaining adrenaline.

I can understand people asking to remove tanky pets with DPS as that should not be allowed but asking to easily kill pets and leave rangers helpless for 20s+ it's not really an argument, it sounds more like a bad joke than a good idea

well people kill mesmer clones in one hit and they can't shatter, mesmer can only resummon it easy if they trait for it, why rangers should be different and pets can't die having 40k hp? rangers have a backup pet already and they should put a cd of 60s after the pet dies to ress.

today i was playing pvp and i killed the ranger and he left me with 20% of my life, i was trying to finish him and the pet was stunning me while the ranger was downed, the pet killed me then the pet ressed him because my class don't have a stun while downed, but he could only do that because in the middle of the fight i was not able to kill the pet because he would ress just be changing it, tell me how is that fair?

1) no pet has 40k HPThis is true but they have enough where in most cases the ranger can swap it out the moment they see someone attempting to kill it or fuse with it which completely invalidates the idea of even attempting to do so.2) there is already a 60s CD for dead petsNot when used with soul beast which is an odd ball factor3) comparing pets to clones is absurd...maybe they should add a 60s CD for each clone destroyed alsoI do agree with this though pets should not be compared to clones. Cones have a wider number of effects they can be used for on command of the caster where as pets are pretty standard from the moment you see it you know mostly what it can potentially do even if you cant always read when it will do it. That said pets are in my personal opinion too tanky in general.The birds are fine as far as damage goes and they are super squishThe felines some of which are ok i think they are just under used in general thoughBears are not tanky enough to draw peoples attention out side of soulbeast for damage immunitiesSmokescale despite it supposedly being equivalent to a bear in terms of stats has far more damage due to its skill kit and offers much more utility if not too much utility to rangers in general with they damage they have. Its why the pet is so over used almost every ranger build uses it.Wolves/canines are a nice mix but need more tells on their non command cc attacksPigs are good idea of a utility type pet that come with big risk for the reward. (as anyone can pick up your plasma if you are careless)The deer is a bullet bil that needs to be removed from the game. LOL

[bravan.3876]

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:Hi again,

First off, really enjoying reading through all the feedback. While we don’t have time to respond to each individual post, we wanted to respond to a few of the points that have been brought up multiple times.

• Sigil of Agility and its impact on other builds

This is something that we were still thinking about at the time of the original post, and went with the most aggressive variation as a discussion topic. For now we’re going to leave Agility in the game at reduced effectiveness (1s quickness) in order to have less impact on builds that we aren’t specifically targeting for this update. 1 second will still allow for a key skill to be used under quickness, while reducing the overall value for things like holo. Long-term we are still planning to remove Agility completely, as it’s too freely accessible as a source of quickness. This does fit more with the current state of things, but quickness is something we’ll be taking a close look at for the future update and it’s very likely that Agility is out of place moving forward.

• Not enough holo nerfs

Especially with the lesser nerf to agility, we agree that holo needs a bit more in this update. We’re looking at additional defensive reductions. Holo damage is certainly high, but we want to mostly leave that damage potential in the short-term, while adding more opportunity to counterpressure as a way of mitigating that damage. The new changes are included at the end of the post.

• What about doing [any number of other suggestions]?

There are more changes that make sense to do. There are concerns about some builds that aren’t being hit. There are questions about whether these changes are the right changes.

These changes are all very focused on fixing problems in the short-term. Ideally we wouldn’t splash into other builds, but in some cases it’s bound to happen. We wanted to create a small set of high-impact changes to improve things while we work toward bigger goals. The alternative was to just not do any balance until the future update is ready, but we felt that we could address some problems so we’re going to take the opportunity. If other big problems appear following this update, we still have the ability to make small adjustments outside of the usual balance cadence as needed.

Updates to the previous list:

• Sigil of Agility: Reduced quickness duration from 2 seconds to 1 second
• Photon Wall: Increased cooldown from 35 seconds to 45 seconds in PvP only
• Heat Therapy: Reduced heal per stack from 65 to 49 (-25%) in PvP only

We still have a bit more time to iterate, but at this point we’re primarily looking for feedback on the holo changes.

Ty for the update. Very appreciated.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said :Actually axe is rly not as bad as most ppl think. I think the weapons is in a good spot. Played around with it lately in case staff will be trash after nerfs.

As did I, axes get lost due to hiting closes enemy, good core warrior is suicide.Reflect fucks you over hard.condi cleanse fucks you over hard.proj block fuck you over hard.no chaos = not very sustainable = dies faster = dont have time to wait out condis.it has more damage, and it confuses people alot more, propably due nobody using it anymore. if people use it for couple of weeks it will be unusable.hardcountered by 70% of the meta.fire ele, any firebrand, any thief, warrior, holo. -.-

[viquing.8254]

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said :Actually axe is rly not as bad as most ppl think. I think the weapons is in a good spot. Played around with it lately in case staff will be trash after nerfs.

When is the last time an axe mirage kill you ?What can you say about my why is axe bad ?

I don't know what to say about your axe opinion. I thought it is bad too until i tried it and it worked well. When you care for your axe 2 use you don't rly get interrupted during that. Axe 3 is still an insane skill. Don't use Sage amulet with axe and the dmg is good. That was my experience at least. It was already a decent use, when now everyhting else will get nerfed axe will be even better most likely.

The problem is not getting CCed during axe 2 but getting hit by aoe (cc or not)/bunch of damage + plethora of random things who pop melee.About axe 3, if an insane skill = 50% fail as long as the opponent is moving or there is some vertical ground, well, I will give you this insanity and take another.

[bravan.3876]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

Reflect kitten you over hard.condi cleanse kitten you over hard.proj block kitten you over hard.no chaos = not very sustainable = dies faster = dont have time to wait out condis.fire ele, any firebrand, any thief, warrior, holo. -.-

Nothing of this is axe specific you have the same problem with all projectils/ condi builds and you can play chaos with axe. The only thing rly gets harder is the Warrior matchup (and Corewarrior is kind of build to be good vs Condimesmer in general).

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said :Actually axe is rly not as bad as most ppl think. I think the weapons is in a good spot. Played around with it lately in case staff will be trash after nerfs.

When is the last time an axe mirage kill you ?What can you say about my why is axe bad ?

I don't know what to say about your axe opinion. I thought it is bad too until i tried it and it worked well. When you care for your axe 2 use you don't rly get interrupted during that. Axe 3 is still an insane skill. Don't use Sage amulet with axe and the dmg is good. That was my experience at least. It was already a decent use, when now everyhting else will get nerfed axe will be even better most likely.

The problem is not getting CCed during axe 2 but getting hit by aoe (cc or not)/bunch of damage + plethora of random things who pop melee.About axe 3, if an insane skill = 50% fail as long as the opponent is moving or there is some vertical ground, well, I will give you this insanity and take another.

I don't know if you jump into the biggest aoe with it then maybe but still you can cover with dodges, it is the "burst" combo anyway for axe that you axe 2 dodge for additional clone and ambush dmg. You would still be a duel build most time you are not in big aoe teamfights anyway. All i can say is, that axe was clearly better than expected during trying. But it seems Holo is first main target for next patch maybe lets focus on that first.

When they restart with trade off kitten and try to change Mirage Cloak even though it is not necessary then Mirages will have a bigger problem than axe anyway xD I would excavate a grave near to Chrono already if i were you.

[bambi.6214]

Please. Do anything to holo, nerf it to the ground, but don't touch core engineer. Holosmith has entire trait line to nerf, nerfing stuff like stability on elxir U hurts core engi a lot, as there's barely any stability to be gained on core.

[Arheundel.6451]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:You can kite pets. Rock Gazelle hurts but I don't think ranger is as egregious as you're claiming now, especially with the unblockable synergy soulbeast had being trimmed.

I have to say i dont agree with you here which is strange.Pets can be kited only if the ranger does not run beast mastery which most do run.

Otherwise the pet has far-greater mobility passively than you do as a player in combat let alone ones that have dashes, leaps, blinks, etc There is no realistic kiting them at general in combat speeds.

The only way you avoid pets generally is if you have constant access to superspeed or stealth which breaks their targeting causing them to run back to the pet owner or to another target till you re appear this might be enough of a gap to make pets seem avoidable. But generally on most professions that cannot stealth often there is no kiting the pet. The pet is going to get you how much it gets you depends on the situation.

The pets are viable mostly at point blank range even with beastmastery traited because 80% of pet attacks are 1s+ cast time and with stop animation , the more skilled the opponents the harder to land any pet attack as you need to find gaps in the enemy defensive rotations and even if manage that..the rock gazelle is the only one that can deal huge power burst due to a bug when it happens...other pets can deal as much dmg as an AA from a warrior or thief..which is still good in my opinion.

The main reason why rangers are forced to get beastmastery is because Anet (apologetically) said that increasing attck/speed of core pets would cause problems with the same models used in the core game hence why HoT/PoF pets are better overall.

Pets are the ranger mechanic and they're part of the dmg not a separate entity like people want to believe, without the pets the overall dmg of rangers drop by a lot...almost by 70% , outside couple heavy hitting skills ( maul and rapid fire ) the DPS of ranger is rather lacklustre ; considering the fact that PvP offers a more controlled DPS environment, a PvE benchmark can be used more effectively to demonstrate what I am saying.

My only gripe about ranger pets is that attempting to kill the pet is not a viable strategy to reduce the rangers effectiveness (currently). The pets that are not the birds are generally as tanky as another player and can be swapped too easily on demand or revived via soul beast fusion with no punishment. In pvp or wvw if you are under attack by a ranger killing the pet should be a viable option to reducing the rangers effectiveness. But you dont really have that choice so you have to ignore the pet and just avoid its key skills for the most part.

P.S I don't justify bugged attacks like rock gazelle and with that said I believe that tanky pets should offer support option for the player and only rock gazelle remains outside the spectrum and possibly bristleback, but I do expect squishy pets, that die in a couple aoe , to deal as much dmg as other profession auto-attacks in the 1-2k range ..anything less would be completely unreasonable

Any pet that can perform a Disabling attack even more so attacks that are not commanded by the ranger do need to be made more visible imo. Some pets have these kind of things others dont.

I'd love to see more DPS oriented pets like bird/felines where they're squishy but do hit hard or utility pets like bears/moa and some canine that do far less dmg but arguably ( need some buffs here ) offer more support utility . As I have explained pets are the ranger mechanic and asking to disable another profession mechanic for a limited amount of time it's not really an option..unless you allow ranger to effectively stop mesmers from casting clones for 60s or prevent a thief from restealthing or stopping a warrior from gaining adrenaline.

I can understand people asking to remove tanky pets with DPS as that should not be allowed but asking to easily kill pets and leave rangers helpless for 20s+ it's not really an argument, it sounds more like a bad joke than a good idea

well people kill mesmer clones in one hit and they can't shatter, mesmer can only resummon it easy if they trait for it, why rangers should be different and pets can't die having 40k hp? rangers have a backup pet already and they should put a cd of 60s after the pet dies to ress.

today i was playing pvp and i killed the ranger and he left me with 20% of my life, i was trying to finish him and the pet was stunning me while the ranger was downed, the pet killed me then the pet ressed him because my class don't have a stun while downed, but he could only do that because in the middle of the fight i was not able to kill the pet because he would ress just be changing it, tell me how is that fair?

1) no pet has 40k HPThis is true but they have enough where in most cases the ranger can swap it out the moment they see someone attempting to kill it or fuse with it which completely invalidates the idea of even attempting to do so.2) there is already a 60s CD for dead petsNot when used with soul beast which is an odd ball factor3) comparing pets to clones is absurd...maybe they should add a 60s CD for each clone destroyed alsoI do agree with this though pets should not be compared to clones. Cones have a wider number of effects they can be used for on command of the caster where as pets are pretty standard from the moment you see it you know mostly what it can potentially do even if you cant always read when it will do it. That said pets are in my personal opinion too tanky in general.The birds are fine as far as damage goes and they are super squishThe felines some of which are ok i think they are just under used in general thoughBears are not tanky enough to draw peoples attention out side of soulbeast for damage immunitiesSmokescale despite it supposedly being equivalent to a bear in terms of stats has far more damage due to its skill kit and offers much more utility if not too much utility to rangers in general with they damage they have. Its why the pet is so over used almost every ranger build uses it.Wolves/canines are a nice mix but need more tells on their non command cc attacksPigs are good idea of a utility type pet that come with big risk for the reward. (as anyone can pick up your plasma if you are careless)The deer is a bullet bil that needs to be removed from the game. LOL

It's very easy for thieves/mesmer/revs and generally any class with high evasion to completely kite the pet in the vast majority of cases, you keep forgetting what I have stated before about buffing pet movement speed, the devs cannot do it because it would affect the core game and reason why HoT pets are more resilient....there was an old thread in the ranger forum where the devs acknowledge the fact that path issue is a critical issue , rangers have been waiting for fix on pets since launch..if anything you should expect buffs to core pets as they're in shamble

Smokescale has seen its damage nerfed by well over 70% already...really the thing does a total of 2k dmg when you count all the hits on a medium armor target

They should just move the dmg from pets to ranger and change pets into utility skills...something the rangers have been requesting for years

[Exalted Quality.8534]

i agree with those who don’t believe sigil of agility should be removed. maybe drop the quickness to 1s on an 18s cd and leave the swiftness as is or change swiftness to 3s on a 9s cd (if its possible to split cool downs on the same sigil)

[Chaith.8256]

@mortrialus.3062 said:I feel validated.

Just wanna point out they precisely added holo-only nerfs, none of the Elixir S, Purity of Purpose, Anti-Corrosion Plating changes you suggested. They're the chances that Engi mains have been suggesting

[mortrialus.3062]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:I feel validated.

Just wanna point out they precisely added holo-only nerfs, none of the Elixir S, Purity of Purpose, Anti-Corrosion Plating changes you suggested. They're the chances that Engi mains have been suggesting

I'm mostly joking about them acknowledging complaints that holo hasn't been nerfed enough. Which honestly feels out of this world to see.

[Ovark.2514]

Holo is only able to really be as obscene as it is because utilities like elixir s allow it to rarely, if ever, be vulnerable.

[reikken.4961]

Hitting holosmith sustain is good. Actually great. Indeed, holo having high damage is fine and good. What's more frustrating is that you can avoid the burst, dodge all the CCs, and so on, and then hit them back as hard as you can, and they just shrug it off and come at you again.

So that plus a nerf to the extreme stability uptime should be pretty good. Looks pretty on point.

Disappointing to see that doing better more targeted nerfs for the other classes isn't on the table, but somewhat understandable if the goal is minimum effort to get things in line so the time can be spent on more comprehensive balancing. Does not seem like it would be a significant difference in time spent for many of the cases, however.

[reikken.4961]

@Ovark.2514 said:Holo is only able to really be as obscene as it is because utilities like elixir s allow it to rarely, if ever, be vulnerable.

That and heal turret, which I think is an even bigger offender. Shorter cast time than almost any other heal skill in the game, making it virtually impossible to interrupt, while being actually even stronger than average and with a shorter than average cooldown. It's always enabled engineer to get away with things other classes can't.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Maybe holo shouldn't have the option to blast hturrets field? That would solve the sustain issue

[Stand The Wall.6987]

meaningful holo nerfs

put an actual cd on holo leap (2s is a joke)remove perma vigor (shouldn't exist on any build) by nerfing invigorating speedconsider a 10s cd on holomode (cmon 5s is ridiculous), if not then put an icd on optimized activation

I think holo would be pretty good along with the heat therapy and photon wall nerf. no need to hit core too hard with the elixir u stab nerf.

[DrClutchMcSwagDaddy.9072]

Hey @"Cal Cohen.2358" -- If you want to lower holo sustain, nerfing heat therapy is a good start. A second primary source of healing on holosmith comes from combo-ing the water fields from heal turret, as the water field lasts so long.

Adjusting the interaction holosmiths have with water fields would significantly lower the amount of sustain the class has, without damaging the fluidity of the class overall. This also allows holosmith to keep the little condition cleanse it has, as many condition based classes are hard counters to holosmith.

The following are blast finishers holo has access to:

1. Holographic Shockwave
2. Magnetic Inversion
3. Rocket Boots
4. Throw Mine
5. Heal Turret

The following are leap finishers holo has access to:

1. Jump Shot
2. Radiant Arc
3. Holo Leap

Yes, I am aware that engineer has more access to combo finishers, but seldom are they used in a PvP specific context. Laughs in Big Ol' Bomb.

Removing the leap finisher on holo 2 would lower healing by 1,320 * (0.2) health per use. Holos can do this twice, as the toolbelt skill for heal turret is also a (smol) water field. This way, the holosmith has to be in rifle to have access to a leap finisher, the same as the other 2 engineer specs.

Holographic Shockwave could stay a blast finisher, as 25% of max heat is pretty jarring for a ~1300 heal, but can also come in handy in situations you're willing to sacrifice heat for CC and a small AoE heal.

The other engineer heal skills aside AED are basically unusable. The Elixir H is arguably the worst healing ability in the game, and the toolbelt skill for the Exceed heal literally covers you in burning. Why would anyone run anything other than heal turret?

Keep in mind, nerfing heal turret would cripple engineer as a class rather than holosmith specifically. Scrapper is distanced from this by having an alternative heal skill (medic Gyro), but many times heal turret is still desired.

CheersDr. Clutch McSwagDaddy

Edit: Left out prot holo, Thanks @shadowpass.4236 :)

@shadowpass.4236 said:The Prot Holo build also has access to Rumble, Acid Bomb, and Detonate Thumper Turret as well.The build can do upwards of 6-8 or so leaps/blasts in a single water field iirc with most of them on a cycle time of less than 20 seconds.

The only thing here is that all engie specs have access to this, but it just adds on to holo sustain as well.

[Nocta.5274]

Please keep the removal of Sigil of agility. You don't understand why it's strong if you feel like halfing the quickness does anything.Not every class needs to be able to swap and quickness cast an important skill.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Cal Cohen.2358

Thanks for communicating. You guys are doing a great job and I see people actually having positive discussions outside of the game about the balance changes and how it's nice to actual see the devs listening and making adjustments.

With that being said, you guys still haven't done anything or acknowledged the (potentially bugged?) double reveal procs on Lock On that do not share the same cooldowns.

Please look at the double proc reveal from Lock On. Keep the cc proc and remove the on-hit proc. It currently gives 12 seconds of reveal + fury + 20 stacks of vulnerability every 25 seconds and is completely insane. The cooldown should also be increased to 30 seconds with the single reveal proc.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"DrClutchMcSwagDaddy.9072"

You're missing a few of them.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blast_finisherhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leap_finisher

The Prot Holo build also has access to Rumble, Acid Bomb, and Detonate Thumper Turret as well.

The build can do upwards of 6-8 or so leaps/blasts in a single water field iirc with most of them on a cycle time of less than 20 seconds.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@shadowpass.4236 said:@Cal Cohen.2358

Thanks for communicating. You guys are doing a great job and I see people actually having positive discussions outside of the game about the balance changes and how it's nice to actual see the devs listening and making adjustments.

With that being said, you guys still haven't done anything or acknowledged the (potentially bugged?) double reveal procs on Lock On that do not share the same cooldowns.

Please look at the double proc reveal from Lock On. Keep the cc proc and remove the on-hit proc. It currently gives 12 seconds of reveal + fury + 20 stacks of vulnerability every 25 seconds and is completely insane. The cooldown should also be increased to 30 seconds with the single reveal proc.

Cheezus Crust! Amen!