Potential Future Balance Changes - PvP

[Leonidrex.5649]

@viquing.8254 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@viquing.8254 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Umm...

Sharper Images and Duelist's Disclipline on mesmer need to get looked at too. Pistol 4 can apply 18 stacks of bleeding on a 20 second cooldown and can almost be instantly reset with interrupts from stuff like sword ambush spam.

Please don't forget about these 2 traits. 18 stacks of bleeding on a single button press is CRAZY overpowered.

now that cmirage is nerfed to kitten you wanna nerf core condi mes i see?those "18" bleeds deal same damage as other hard hitting skills of other classes, prove me wrong or go home.

Suuuure... if you insist.

1. TTK on Light Golem w/ Fury = 7 seconds (not even the full 18 bleeds lel)
2. TTK on Light Golem w/ Fury = 33 seconds
3. TTK on Light Golem = 31 seconds
4. TTK on Light Golem = 18 seconds/26 seconds

Bonus!

5. TTK on Light Golem = 5 seconds (can be spammed or just passively does stupid amounts of damage every time a mirage dodges)

Not to mention the other 4 skills in the sc/p weaponset also do a ton of damage, 1 ccs you, + multiple ambushes to dodge. Compare the 7-8 skills necessary to avoid on sc/p to the 1 skill on ranger gs that can kill you (maul) and the 3 on warrior gs (maul, whirlwind, arcing slice) etc. etc. and it should be pretty easy to see why mesmers are completely overloaded.

Can you stop post biased troll post from someone who clearly have no clue about damage/CD efficiency please ?Show gear/trait in your vids please and even with that, if you don't proc multiplier you know that your prove is biased, I mean lol a 3k maul and war hundred blade with no might stack.I'm ok if you want to make again a mesmer long discussion here you can, but get ready to discuss a long time because the damage you want to nerf on your initial post isn't op in regards to CD/animation/trait investment/type of attacks in the current meta.

So you'd like me to stack some damage modifiers before I use the hard hitting skills on warrior and ranger? lol

The mes was on wanderers and the ranger and war were both on demolishers (ya know, the meta). I'll make a few more vids later if I remember.

Yes because contrary to mesmer, ranger and warrior output much of their damage thanks to damage modifier.

Sure and I can make the Phantasmal Duelist do way more burst damage as well.Not really you can't have much output from duelist contrary to the above class.

he can get some more dmg from those bleeds, by getting extra lucky crit or 2, getting 5-10might and extra 120 condi damage throught vigor, but thats about it.meanwhile warrior can get extra 50-60% dmg from might, 10% from tether, 10% from peak performance, about 10-15% dmg from fury. add some lucky crits with 7%-14% crit dmg trait and it will land at 20-25k

[shadowpass.4236]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Umm...

Sharper Images and Duelist's Disclipline on mesmer need to get looked at too. Pistol 4 can apply 18 stacks of bleeding on a 20 second cooldown and can almost be instantly reset with interrupts from stuff like sword ambush spam.

Please don't forget about these 2 traits. 18 stacks of bleeding on a single button press is CRAZY overpowered.

now that cmirage is nerfed to kitten you wanna nerf core condi mes i see?those "18" bleeds deal same damage as other hard hitting skills of other classes, prove me wrong or go home.

Suuuure... if you insist.

1. TTK on Light Golem w/ Fury = 7 seconds (not even the full 18 bleeds lel)
2. TTK on Light Golem w/ Fury = 33 seconds
3. TTK on Light Golem = 31 seconds
4. TTK on Light Golem = 18 seconds/26 seconds

Bonus!

5. TTK on Light Golem = 5 seconds (can be spammed or just passively does stupid amounts of damage every time a mirage dodges)

Not to mention the other 4 skills in the sc/p weaponset also do a ton of damage, 1 ccs you, + multiple ambushes to dodge. Compare the 7-8 skills necessary to avoid on sc/p to the 1 skill on ranger gs that can kill you (maul) and the 3 on warrior gs (maul, whirlwind, arcing slice) etc. etc. and it should be pretty easy to see why mesmers are completely overloaded.

if you gonna post biased stuff I shall too.

https://imgur.com/gallery/6qqQh54

here you go. 6,3k ranger autoattack.how many of them can you throw at 1,5k range with quickness? 10 in that 7s? that would deal 63k dmg. :D

Sure and I can make the Phantasmal Duelist do way more burst damage as well.

Someone is just salty they've gotten proven wrong yet again lmao.

dont have to mate, did it for you ( or rather some random oponent did )

https://imgur.com/gallery/6qqQh54

6350 dmg, long range shot. basic longbow auto with 1500+ range. (usable while moving )2242 dmg, rapid fire ( 1 hit ) it fires 10 over all so thats total of 22420 dmg. again 1500+ range,

usable while moving.

so you die in what, 1,5s? 2s? from 1500 range. and you compare it to 8s bleed + pistol channel, that will do about 10k dmg if not cleansed.

Yeah sure you'd die in 1.5/2s from 1500 range if you have a 12k health pool and no boons or toughness meanwhile I'm over here casting Phantasmal Duelist one shotting everyone while remaining completely stationary!

Keep reaching lmao.

If you eat entire pistol 4 channel you deserve to die, sadly it doesnt happen becouse everyone just cleanses that INSANE 18 BLEEDS OP.you dont get to cleanse 22,4k rapid fire from 1500+ range. even if you eat 3-4 shots thats still 6-8k dmg.toughtness? protection? sure lets add prot and toughtness, oh wait still about 10-14kdmg. thats STILL more then p4.keep whining mate, keep whining.

If you eat the entire rapid fire channel you deserve to die, sadly it doesn't happen (except to you judging by the screenshots) because everyone just walks behind a wall!

I'm sorry to tell you that toughness and protection don't reduce condition damage! Pistol 4 will still kill a light armored class just as fast regardless of whether they're on paladins or marauders.

LMAO you're the one whining. "Mesmer is so weak literally nothing does damage because you can dodge it D: does no damage can't survive you can't nerf anything about this class because you can only nerf mesmer if a team wins MAT for 2 years in a row with 5 mesmer comp" blah blah blah like come on I'll prove you wrong again later but clearly pistol 4 does more damage than all of these other hard hitting skills. You're just in denial constantly about anything mesmer related yet have the audacity to call other people biased. :joy:

Mate, I just posted a screenshot of rangers autoattack dealing almost as much damage as entire pistol 4 channel, cut the kitten.Unlike you I dont go around forums creating post, putting biased, cut out of contecst kitten to fit my agenda.You even go out of your way to outright lie to get mesmer nerfed.GJ they will nerf staff, mirage will still be cancer, people will still whine, YOU will still whine. nothing changes other then the fact that staff becomes unplayable.people will move on to scept/torch + axe/pistol or some sort of bunkercondi mesmer. GJ you did it, 1 less build clap clap.All I do is come here to poke fun at people that go out of their way to bend the truth, so it can fit their agenda.

like what, staff 3 thief abuse baaaad needs to go.gs1 ranger evade abuse goooood bring back.this is you, biased. as always.

Mate, that ranger was on a full glass cannon build. Not to mention a 6k auto attack would only take around half of the Light Golem's health off meanwhile Phantasmal Duelist killed it in a single cast.

Lmfao those videos cut or biased? I literally just hopped on wanderers/demo and used the skills on meta builds and didn't stack any additional modifiers the builds wouldn't normally run.

The difference between daredevil staff 3 and ranger gs autos is that the daredevil can be nearly untouchable for a VERY long time while the ranger autos actually require you to hit your target twice before the evade triggers so there is way more counterplay for the latter.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Looks like very good changes that have been needed for a while. The changes might not be perfect, but its a step in the right direction. The people complaining need to remember that every class is horribly op right now, and nerfing the most broken builds is a very good thing. Mesmer clone spam needed significant nerfing, holo needed significant stab/quickness nerfing, rampage needed damage nerfing etc.

[Yannir.4132]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Yannir.4132 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Suuuure... if you insist.

1. TTK on Light Golem w/ Fury = 7 seconds (not even the full 18 bleeds lel)
2. TTK on Light Golem w/ Fury = 33 seconds
3. TTK on Light Golem = 31 seconds
4. TTK on Light Golem = 18 seconds/26 seconds

That seems a bit suspect. You can AA a Light Golem to death in 8 seconds on Spellbreaker Dagger or Sword(takes around 0.5 seconds longer). Standard Strength build.

I'll show the builds later when I get home. I'm not going to stack full damage traits/runes/amulets/sigils/boons for the sake of consistency so what you guys are seeing are just what the skills normally would hit for.

Obviously if I went full 25 might tether on the meta build + all of the additional damage modifiers it would hit harder but I could do the same thing on mesmer for Phantasmal Duelist.

I mean you can afk before you start hitting the golem on Spb. Not pre-buffing, no nothing. Demo amulet, normal Strength Spellbreaker with Dagger. And it'll take you 8 seconds. 8.5 seconds on Sword. Just autoing.

[Zenix.6198]

Hold up, Hold up, Hold up, Hold up, Hold up.....actual competency?

(plz don't ban, this is just a complement in disguise)

[thehipone.6812]

I'm not sure why Rampage had to more or less have its damage Smiter's Booned. There are tons of other things that it brings that could have been toned down and added more risk/reward, especially since it locks you out of your heal/utilities during the transform. It's an overloaded skill right now, in addition to lots of damage and cc you also get:2000 Vitality buff50% Damage reductionpulsing stabilityswiftnesscripple/chill/immob reduction

Just getting rid of swiftness and soft cc reduction allows someone to have a chance at kiting if they can dodge the ccs. Or trim the damage reduction and get rid of the vitality buff to make it a risk/reward play. Or something else, I don't know, but there is plenty to work with there. Unlike some other skills that are pretty limited...

... speaking of which, elite skills overall need a serious look across professions and a decision on what their role is. Compare the total buffs and power level of Rampage above to something like Lich Form.. (which is actually on a longer 150s recharge) that is never used. Lich gets you the stability and half of the vit buff of rampage, but none of the other stuff. Not that they should necessarily be 1-to-1 on the different classes, but the difference in power seems a bit ridiculous.

Separately - Couldn't agree more re: agility sigil. Good move.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Umm...

Sharper Images and Duelist's Disclipline on mesmer need to get looked at too. Pistol 4 can apply 18 stacks of bleeding on a 20 second cooldown and can almost be instantly reset with interrupts from stuff like sword ambush spam.

Please don't forget about these 2 traits. 18 stacks of bleeding on a single button press is CRAZY overpowered.

now that cmirage is nerfed to kitten you wanna nerf core condi mes i see?those "18" bleeds deal same damage as other hard hitting skills of other classes, prove me wrong or go home.

Suuuure... if you insist.

1. TTK on Light Golem w/ Fury = 7 seconds (not even the full 18 bleeds lel)
2. TTK on Light Golem w/ Fury = 33 seconds
3. TTK on Light Golem = 31 seconds
4. TTK on Light Golem = 18 seconds/26 seconds

Bonus!

5. TTK on Light Golem = 5 seconds (can be spammed or just passively does stupid amounts of damage every time a mirage dodges)

Not to mention the other 4 skills in the sc/p weaponset also do a ton of damage, 1 ccs you, + multiple ambushes to dodge. Compare the 7-8 skills necessary to avoid on sc/p to the 1 skill on ranger gs that can kill you (maul) and the 3 on warrior gs (maul, whirlwind, arcing slice) etc. etc. and it should be pretty easy to see why mesmers are completely overloaded.

if you gonna post biased stuff I shall too.

https://imgur.com/gallery/6qqQh54

here you go. 6,3k ranger autoattack.how many of them can you throw at 1,5k range with quickness? 10 in that 7s? that would deal 63k dmg. :D

Sure and I can make the Phantasmal Duelist do way more burst damage as well.

Someone is just salty they've gotten proven wrong yet again lmao.

dont have to mate, did it for you ( or rather some random oponent did )

https://imgur.com/gallery/6qqQh54

6350 dmg, long range shot. basic longbow auto with 1500+ range. (usable while moving )2242 dmg, rapid fire ( 1 hit ) it fires 10 over all so thats total of 22420 dmg. again 1500+ range,

usable while moving.

so you die in what, 1,5s? 2s? from 1500 range. and you compare it to 8s bleed + pistol channel, that will do about 10k dmg if not cleansed.

Yeah sure you'd die in 1.5/2s from 1500 range if you have a 12k health pool and no boons or toughness meanwhile I'm over here casting Phantasmal Duelist one shotting everyone while remaining completely stationary!

Keep reaching lmao.

If you eat entire pistol 4 channel you deserve to die, sadly it doesnt happen becouse everyone just cleanses that INSANE 18 BLEEDS OP.you dont get to cleanse 22,4k rapid fire from 1500+ range. even if you eat 3-4 shots thats still 6-8k dmg.toughtness? protection? sure lets add prot and toughtness, oh wait still about 10-14kdmg. thats STILL more then p4.keep whining mate, keep whining.

If you eat the entire rapid fire channel you deserve to die, sadly it doesn't happen (except to you judging by the screenshots) because everyone just walks behind a wall!

I'm sorry to tell you that toughness and protection don't reduce condition damage! Pistol 4 will still kill a light armored class just as fast regardless of whether they're on paladins or marauders.

LMAO you're the one whining. "Mesmer is so weak literally nothing does damage because you can dodge it D: does no damage can't survive you can't nerf anything about this class because you can only nerf mesmer if a team wins MAT for 2 years in a row with 5 mesmer comp" blah blah blah like come on I'll prove you wrong again later but clearly pistol 4 does more damage than all of these other hard hitting skills. You're just in denial constantly about anything mesmer related yet have the audacity to call other people biased. :joy:

Mate, I just posted a screenshot of rangers autoattack dealing almost as much damage as entire pistol 4 channel, cut the kitten.Unlike you I dont go around forums creating post, putting biased, cut out of contecst kitten to fit my agenda.You even go out of your way to outright lie to get mesmer nerfed.GJ they will nerf staff, mirage will still be cancer, people will still whine, YOU will still whine. nothing changes other then the fact that staff becomes unplayable.people will move on to scept/torch + axe/pistol or some sort of bunkercondi mesmer. GJ you did it, 1 less build clap clap.All I do is come here to poke fun at people that go out of their way to bend the truth, so it can fit their agenda.

like what, staff 3 thief abuse baaaad needs to go.gs1 ranger evade abuse goooood bring back.this is you, biased. as always.

Mate, that ranger was on a full glass cannon build. Not to mention a 6k auto attack would only take around half of the Light Golem's health off meanwhile Phantasmal Duelist killed it in a single cast.

Lmfao those videos cut or biased? I literally just hopped on wanderers/demo and used the skills on meta builds and didn't stack any additional modifiers the builds wouldn't normally run.

The difference between daredevil staff 3 and ranger gs autos is that the daredevil can be nearly untouchable for a VERY long time while the ranger autos actually require you to hit your target twice before the evade triggers so there is way more counterplay for the latter.

and your bias shows again.its fine for ranger to abuse spam evade for free, becouse you have to attack twice first.for teef its not becouse thief dodges alot.bias strikes again, yuppi

[viquing.8254]

Sigh,

@"Ghos.1326" said :I mean, if you played properly you could do some mean bursts with power mesmer. it's been done, it's still being done, and it will still continue to be done. So you trying to "just dodge 4Head" someone because you have to rely on putting 18 stacks of bleed on opponents consistently doesn't tell anything, other than you don't want to see the proper nerfs for mesmer. I mean the same principle can be applied to you: if you can't properly burst with GS power mesmer then you just need to "git gud 4Head"Actually if every class do the pistol damage with trait with pistol animation , with pistol cast time, with pistol CD, on projectile type, this game should be fine.

One of my suggestions, was to have Infinite Horizon destroy the clones IMMEDIATELY after its procc.

Let's see how the gut on clone generation on staff and scepter will work but it can be a thing yeah.

I think Sharper images might need looked at. 100% chance to bleed on crit, coupled with 8x attacks from illusionary duelists (I think it should be 3 to match the mesmer's actual attack) is a bit much, But with lower clone generation in total, it might actually be fine where it's at currently. So depending on how this clone generation fix plays out, no changes may need to be done on those ends.

What people didn't get about sharper images is that clone auto hasway slower cycle than other class who bleed on crit, remember that it didn't proc on mesmer attacks and apart for distance clones (which animations are visibles) melee clones are instant gut by aoe/cleave.Then if shadow really want to compare trait to other class, start by giving back the 5 sec vigor on crit like everyone.

@"shadowpass.4236" said :Phantasmal Duelist one shotting everyone while remaining completely stationary!Killing someone in 6 sec ins't one shotting you know.Keep reaching lmao.

LMAO you're the one whining. "Mesmer is so weak literally nothing does damage because you can dodge it D: does no damage can't survive you can't nerf anything about this class because you can only nerf mesmer if a team wins MAT for 2 years in a row with 5 mesmer comp" blah blah blah like come on I'll prove you wrong again later but clearly pistol 4 does more damage than all of these other hard hitting skills. You're just in denial constantly about anything mesmer related yet have the audacity to call other people biased.It's been a long time now that mesmer didn't win EU Mat if you want to argue about this.

Obviously if I went full 25 might tether on the meta build + all of the additional damage modifiers it would hit harder but I could do the same thing on mesmer for Phantasmal Duelist.Show me how you get 25 might on condi mesmer (steal from warrior :D ?)

Contrary to ranger and warrior, mirages can literally do enough damage to kill people every time they dodge.? you want to compare a 3k clone ambush with a 2 step animation vs a 4k+ instant unblocable war dodge ? really ?

@"Leonidrex.5649" said:he can get some more dmg from those bleeds, by getting extra lucky crit or 2, getting 5-10might and extra 120 condi damage throught vigor, but thats about it.meanwhile warrior can get extra 50-60% dmg from might, 10% from tether, 10% from peak performance, about 10-15% dmg from fury. add some lucky crits with 7%-14% crit dmg trait and it will land at 20-25kThat's what I suggested when I see his "3k maul" vid :D

[Atille.5047]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:

Well memed, mate. Now, please quit preying on abused mesmur feelings and creating useless flood in a feedback thread, and go back to "dying in one ambush" in matches. The one whining about a single skill nobody really even has a lot of a problem with is...

drumroll

You. Quite embarrassing tbh

[Aza.2105]

These proposed changes look like a step in the right direction.

[Aza.2105]

@"ArthurDent.9538" said:Really don't like the rampage changes. Over 99% power scaling reduction on these skills is way overkill. While I can agree with rampage's combination of cc and damage being oppressive, these are skills that feel like they should hit hard and at .01 power scaling they will be pretty much the lowest damage skills in the game. Go for about 30% damage reduction on these skills instead, being hit by a giant flying Boulder should hurt, being kicked or body slammed by a brute in a steroid induced frenzy should hurt, just not so much that rampage is a "win" button.

I disagree, rampage is bad for the game. A elite skill should enhance your fighting or defensive capability not become a near I win button. Rampage hits REALLY hard, it should of never been that strong.

[ParadoX.3124]

Can we stop talking about a single skill on ranger that we can dodge / reflect / block / prot ?

[phokus.8934]

@ParadoX.3124 said:Can we stop talking about a single skill on ranger that we can dodge / reflect / block / prot ?

You should've been around in the early days of GW2 when people were complaining about Mesmer Moa.

[thehipone.6812]

@phokus.8934 said:

@ParadoX.3124 said:Can we stop talking about a single skill on ranger that we can dodge / reflect / block / prot ?

You should've been around in the early days of GW2 when people were complaining about Mesmer Moa.

Throw Bolas + 100blades is too stronk

[Ysmir.4986]

Holy Shit.

What is this? Communication from Anet?!

And adressing issues in the game?!?!?

OIAHndiafksbfnuoiajbfvuoavniaonioasianhHioBCIOShn

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:[Proposed changes noises]

generally quiet applauseI'll take a look at skills touched and offer thoughts on some things. There are a few issues that could probably kill a build, ability, or weapon as @Solori.6025 mentioned. This is also of note:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:WHY are we continuing to nerf D/D condi, P/D condi, and other potential condi thieves and NOT dealing with the SWORD part of the issue?? D/D condi thief for example has been TORN APART for YEARS due to nerfs aimed at sword/dagger. The issue with sword dagger is the ability to port in and out, apply damage and leave without being pressured. The immobilize doesn’t help either since it makes counterplay even more difficult.

Condi thief is strong because of this synergy. Consider making a change to sword 2. @ZDragon.3046 made a suggestion that, if you use sword 2 to port and it misses or gets blocked/interrupted, you shouldn't get the flipover skill to return to where you were for a cooldown. It might be worth trying, itll punish thieves/force them to improvise if they don't ensure sword 2 is going to land. Itll keep the playstyle viable but make it more volatile so you cant just be lazy knowing you can port back as soon as you unload your condis.

@"SoulSin.5682" said:You could also remove the dodge frames from Vault. Its already a very strong leap with damage and AoE, it never needed the dodge frames.

No.

@bravan.3876 said:Nerfing Mesmers own staff skills is also not rly good, i agree and doesn't solve the problem of the passive condi applications from clones. It will just make Mesmers maybe unplayable or at least make Mesmers relying even more on the passsive playstyle then before.

I'm in agreement with Bravan on this. I don't want Mirage players shoehorned into the playstyle bolded above (and chronos, standard mesmers punished further) because now they have to just do the same rotation for longer. I don't exactly know how you could do that outside of a change to IH that makes it more volatile though. I'm thinking about that.

@praqtos.9035 said:why not change CLONE ambush duration and actually BUFF real mesmer ambush???

This is of note. Is there something that can be done to shift the damage back to the mirage? Weaken the clone condi and power output and shift it to the actual mirage? That might be best for everyone. the more damaging mirage becomes more visible and less inclined to play passively, and they have more control of their damage, while opponent has less to worry about and only really needs to avoid the real mirage's ambush.

All theory. I could be wrong.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@Cal Cohen.2358 said:[Proposed changes noises]

generally quiet applause

I'll take a look at skills touched and offer thoughts on some things. There are a few issues that could probably kill a build, ability, or weapon as @Solori.6025 mentioned. This is also of note:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

WHY are we continuing to nerf D/D condi, P/D condi, and other potential condi thieves and NOT dealing with the SWORD part of the issue??

D/D condi thief for example has been TORN APART for YEARS due to nerfs aimed at sword/dagger. The issue with sword dagger is the ability to port in and out, apply damage and leave without being pressured. The immobilize doesn’t help either since it makes counterplay even more difficult.

Condi thief is strong because of this synergy. Consider making a change to sword 2. @ZDragon.3046 made a suggestion that, if you use sword 2 to port and it misses or gets blocked/interrupted, you shouldn't get the flipover skill to return to where you were for a cooldown. It might be worth trying, itll punish thieves/force them to improvise if they don't ensure sword 2 is going to land. Itll keep the playstyle viable but make it more volatile so you cant just be lazy knowing you can port back as soon as you unload your condis.

@"SoulSin.5682" said:You could also remove the dodge frames from Vault. Its already a very strong leap with damage and AoE, it never needed the dodge frames.

No.

@"bravan.3876" said:Nerfing Mesmers own staff skills is also not rly good, i agree and doesn't solve the problem of the passive condi applications from clones. It will just make Mesmers maybe unplayable or at least make Mesmers relying even more on

the passsive playstyle then before

.

I'm in agreement with Bravan on this. I don't want Mirage players shoehorned into the playstyle bolded above (and chronos, standard mesmers punished further) because now they have to just do the same rotation for longer. I don't exactly know how you could do that outside of a change to IH that makes it more volatile though. I'm thinking about that.

preety sure after this goes throught. scepter + torch/axe + pistol hybrid might be a "new" thing.much more damage, cant be sidestepped unlike staff ambush, waaay less survivable.people will go baack to complaining like shadowsomething does with MUH 25 TORMENt AXE AmBuSh

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:people will go baack to complaining like shadowsomething does with MUH 25 TORMENt AXE AmBuSh

Expect whining. There will always be whining. the goal is to get things to a point where if someone whines about something it is extremely obvious what the counter to that something is, and have that counter be easily accessible.

@Aza.2105 said:

@"ArthurDent.9538" said:Really don't like the rampage changes. Over 99% power scaling reduction on these skills is way overkill. While I can agree with rampage's combination of cc and damage being oppressive, these are skills that feel like they should hit hard and at .01 power scaling they will be pretty much the lowest damage skills in the game. Go for about 30% damage reduction on these skills instead, being hit by a giant flying Boulder should hurt, being kicked or body slammed by a brute in a steroid induced frenzy should hurt, just not so much that rampage is a "win" button.

I disagree, rampage is bad for the game. A elite skill should enhance your fighting or defensive capability not become a near I win button. Rampage hits REALLY hard, it should of never been that strong.

I'd consider myself a warrior main (thats what I have the most time on), but I also play everything else. When you are fighting a warrior and they go "uh oh im losing better rampage" and suddenly you need to have three defensive utilities on you immediately (one for boulder, one for stomp, one for kick) or be at risk of immediately dying, something is wrong.

Nothing is wrong with rage signet. one button match upsets aren't fun.

EDIT: Since Juggernaut has a damage reduction and pulsing stab, maybe shift it more to utility instead of pure offense, and have it break stuns on cast with the damage coefficient reduction proposed in the future. Priority now is making it less wholly oppressive.

[witcher.3197]

@Ghos.1326 said:

@witcher.3197 said:Gotta agree with the people saying mesmer doesn't need a condition nerf, but an Infinite Horizon nerf.

How about an ICD? 5-7 seconds. This lets mirage do burst damage, but if you dodge or cleanse it you'll be safe for x amount of time. Currently the problem is the nonstop burst damage produced by this trait.

An ICD would introduce some conterplay to it, making it more rewarding to land and less annoying to fight against.

Interesting suggested change. My suggested change was to immediately destroy clones after IH procced, causing the mesmer to have to generate more clones if they want to procc it again.

That's also not a bad idea, but only if they abandon the current changes altogether. To gut condition generation AND make clones die after ambush is just too much. Might as well delete clones from mesmer at that point.

[Gryxis.6950]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:why not change CLONE ambush duration and actually BUFF real mesmer ambush???

This is of note. Is there something that can be done to shift the damage back to the mirage? Weaken the clone condi and power output and shift it to the actual mirage? That might be best for everyone. the more damaging mirage becomes more visible and less inclined to play passively, and they have more control of their damage, while opponent has less to worry about and only really needs to avoid the real mirage's ambush.

All theory. I could be wrong.

I mean the power output from clones is already way weaker than from the actual mirage, my clones tend to hit 600 with the greatsword ambush (with empowered illusions), and even less with the sword ambush. I'd argue it's weak enough

[Dawdler.8521]

So basicly these changes:

We have have identified the following elites being OP so we are nerfing core traitlines to make it balanced

... I dont know what else I expected.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Gryxis.6950 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@praqtos.9035 said:why not change CLONE ambush duration and actually BUFF real mesmer ambush???

This is of note. Is there something that can be done to shift the damage back to the mirage? Weaken the clone condi and power output and shift it to the actual mirage? That might be best for everyone. the more damaging mirage becomes more visible and less inclined to play passively, and they have more control of their damage, while opponent has less to worry about and only really needs to avoid the real mirage's ambush.

All theory. I could be wrong.

I mean the power output from clones is already way weaker than from the actual mirage, my clones tend to hit 600 with the greatsword ambush (with empowered illusions), and even less with the sword ambush. I'd argue it's weak enough

A Fair point.

@Dawdler.8521 said:So basicly these changes:

We have have identified the following elites being OP so we are nerfing core traitlines to make it balanced

... I dont know what else I expected.

Its draft one of a balancing effort that theyre trying to sharpen. point out why nerfing core to fix elite is bad and in which instances it is bad so the team can sharpen it

[Chorazin.4107]

Too much might stacking on some classes, been that way for far too long.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

@Dawdler.8521 said:So basicly these changes:

We have have identified the following elites being OP so we are nerfing core traitlines to make it balanced

... I dont know what else I expected.

They should be commended for making a numerical change even if it was to the wrong stuff in some cases. This won't take over a year to fix if it goes south.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@"Levetty.1279" said:So you are going to destroy Mirage like you did Chrono? I don't know why are going out of your way to try and make so many classes unfun to play rather then actually trying to balance things but you are just driving people away from the game.

No this isn't whine about "op classes" being nerfed, this is a PvE player asking you to stop ruining PvE for no reason.

Why is a PvE player here to complain about PvP-only changes? And why does he have 3 upvotes?

Reading comprehension, people!