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New nerfs to Mirage


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I am slightly on edge regarding mirage cloak given what happened to chrono, but I suppose also feeling slightly in positive anticipation that maybe there could be some good changes going forward.

I stand by what I said in that thread regarding Staff though - needs more utility if they want to push it to utility. Staff 4 needs deleting and replacing with new utility.

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Next mesmer meta based on condi/Burst core or powermirage ?BTW I already get top 30 last season on powermirage so the "it work" is already here and I already didn't consider condimirage superior to powermirage talking about efficiency. We will probably just see more powermirage than condimirage, that's all.And for the mesmers interested into condi build if the mirage nerf was too much, PU condicore is still managable.About mirage cloak, if for a reason they remove the mirage ability to dodge when they want, people will go to PU core.If they next nerf PU, people will still go into chaos thanks to master of manipulation mobility who is necessary to survive on core while allowing no-speed amulet.

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@Curunen.8729 said:I am slightly on edge regarding mirage cloak given what happened to chrono, but I suppose also feeling slightly in positive anticipation that maybe there could be some good changes going forward.

I stand by what I said in that thread regarding Staff though - needs more utility if they want to push it to utility. Staff 4 needs deleting and replacing with new utility.

Optimism is nonsensical at this point. You might as well start posting ideas for elite specializations you dreamt up.

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@"Heartpains.7312" said:They just love to nerf things by 50% or more if it is mesmer changes don't they?

They are really hopeless.

Don't get your hopes up, they just nerf they don't give anything back.

didnt you quit :) ? 50% nerfs on everything mesmer has was done by previous incompetent "balance team" or whatever it was called and the "new one" is the same, just throw another 50% dmg nerf without adressing the issues or even trying to figure it out. I'm glad I quit, the best decision since I started to play this game. Sad to see they destroyed the game with huge potential and great combat system, expect more people to alt+F4

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Instead of moaning about it, why don’t you guys head over to the thread and give constructive feedback as to why the changes are bad? @Cal Cohen.3527 has said in those threads that the changes aren’t locked in yet, and I am sure the team would be willing to reconsider if you can articulate why the changes aren’t a good idea. If you just hide in here saying it’s bad but not actually bother justifying that you aren’t going to get anywhere, and it just makes it look like you are moaning because you want your class to stay OP.

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@DarthEros.3547 said:Instead of moaning about it, why don’t you guys head over to the thread and give constructive feedback as to why the changes are bad? @"Cal Cohen.3527" has said in those threads that the changes aren’t locked in yet, and I am sure the team would be willing to reconsider if you can articulate why the changes aren’t a good idea. If you just hide in here saying it’s bad but not actually bother justifying that you aren’t going to get anywhere, and it just makes it look like you are moaning because you want your class to stay OP.Ye, chrono players (that wasnt even complained about since scepter 3 buff and nerf) didnt want their OP class to stay broken so alot of irritated pve (lmao) players for the first time in their life log in on the forum.Memes aside its still the same incompetent "balance" team and has the exact same approach -trash core, nerf everything that does damage by 50% (and increase cooldown if possible by 50% but I guess thats the difference for now)

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@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:I am slightly on edge regarding mirage cloak given what happened to chrono, but I suppose also feeling slightly in positive anticipation that maybe there could be some good changes going forward.

I stand by what I said in that thread regarding Staff though - needs more utility if they want to push it to utility. Staff 4 needs deleting and replacing with new utility.

Optimism is nonsensical at this point. You might as well start posting ideas for elite specializations you dreamt up.

I said slightly positive anticipation because there's always a sliver of hope otherwise one may as well stop playing.

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@DarthEros.3547 said:Instead of moaning about it, why don’t you guys head over to the thread and give constructive feedback as to why the changes are bad? @Cal Cohen.3527 has said in those threads that the changes aren’t locked in yet, and I am sure the team would be willing to reconsider if you can articulate why the changes aren’t a good idea. If you just hide in here saying it’s bad but not actually bother justifying that you aren’t going to get anywhere, and it just makes it look like you are moaning because you want your class to stay OP.So young and naive. Just like how we all gave feedback on Chrono losing IP and how changing the daze on Chaos Storm was not needed...

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@"praqtos.9035" said:

didnt you quit :) ? 50% nerfs on everything mesmer has was done by previous incompetent "balance team" or whatever it was called and the "new one" is the same, just throw another 50% dmg nerf without adressing the issues or even trying to figure it out. I'm glad I quit, the best decision since I started to play this game. Sad to see they destroyed the game with huge potential and great combat system, expect more people to alt+F4

I mostly came back just for few friends that I have, but even with that i am not playing much anymore, and each patch makes me not wanna bother even.

The only thing that looks interesting is the 50% nerfs, these just makes me wanna read the forums! =p

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@Heartpains.7312 said:

@"praqtos.9035" said:

didnt you quit :) ? 50% nerfs on everything mesmer has was done by previous incompetent "balance team" or whatever it was called and the "new one" is the same, just throw another 50% dmg nerf without adressing the issues or even trying to figure it out. I'm glad I quit, the best decision since I started to play this game. Sad to see they destroyed the game with huge potential and great combat system, expect more people to alt+F4

I mostly came back just for few friends that I have, but even with that i am not playing much anymore, and each patch makes me not wanna bother even.

The only thing that looks interesting is the 50% nerfs, these just makes me wanna read the forums! =pPretty much every single one person I knew not playing anymore, big F

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@Curunen.8729 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:I am slightly on edge regarding mirage cloak given what happened to chrono, but I suppose also feeling slightly in positive anticipation that maybe there could be some good changes going forward.

I stand by what I said in that thread regarding Staff though - needs more utility if they want to push it to utility. Staff 4 needs deleting and replacing with new utility.

Optimism is nonsensical at this point. You might as well start posting ideas for elite specializations you dreamt up.

I said slightly positive anticipation because there's always a sliver of hope otherwise one may as well stop playing.

There is a difference between a sliver of hope and asking them to kitten up a perfectly fine skill because you believe it could be better.Whenever you have to declare you stand by your opinion maybe post about a potential e-spec instead.. At least in that case if they take your advise and mess up you haven't impacted the rest of the profession.

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@DarthEros.3547 said:Instead of moaning about it, why don’t you guys head over to the thread and give constructive feedback as to why the changes are bad? @Cal Cohen.3527 has said in those threads that the changes aren’t locked in yet, and I am sure the team would be willing to reconsider if you can articulate why the changes aren’t a good idea. If you just hide in here saying it’s bad but not actually bother justifying that you aren’t going to get anywhere, and it just makes it look like you are moaning because you want your class to stay OP.

Everytime they put these balance previews up they get many responses saying the pros and cons for each change on each class, they never listen to a single one.

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@Levetty.1279 said:

@DarthEros.3547 said:Instead of moaning about it, why don’t you guys head over to the thread and give constructive feedback as to why the changes are bad? @"Cal Cohen.3527" has said in those threads that the changes aren’t locked in yet, and I am sure the team would be willing to reconsider if you can articulate why the changes aren’t a good idea. If you just hide in here saying it’s bad but not actually bother justifying that you aren’t going to get anywhere, and it just makes it look like you are moaning because you want your class to stay OP.

Everytime they put these balance previews up they get many responses saying the pros and cons for each change on each class, they never listen to a single one.

They should change the wording of their threads from "Feedback" to something a little less ironic.

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@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:I am slightly on edge regarding mirage cloak given what happened to chrono, but I suppose also feeling slightly in positive anticipation that maybe there could be some good changes going forward.

I stand by what I said in that thread regarding Staff though - needs more utility if they want to push it to utility. Staff 4 needs deleting and replacing with new utility.

Optimism is nonsensical at this point. You might as well start posting ideas for elite specializations you dreamt up.

I said slightly positive anticipation because there's always a sliver of hope otherwise one may as well stop playing.

There is a difference between a sliver of hope and asking them to kitten up a perfectly fine skill because you believe it could be better.Whenever you have to declare you stand by your opinion maybe post about a potential e-spec instead.. At least in that case if they take your advise and mess up you haven't impacted the rest of the profession.

I don't recall anywhere me asking them to do anything to mirage cloak. I stand by everything I wrote here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1080067/#Comment_1080067

I also maintain staff 4 needs modifying to make it more unique and impactful as a skill as it has been in a poor state since the number of chaos armour nerfs a long time ago - which I have suggested various things in the past. Even something as minor as providing aoe protection sharing on cast, or active aoe blind application on cast would go a long way to reinforcing it.

At this point I'm wondering if you're just wanting to perpetuate this due to my stance in your other thread. I've got no issue with you, but do recognise I am an advocate for preserving fun gameplay on mirage as it is the only spec and reason I play this game any more.

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@Curunen.8729 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:I am slightly on edge regarding mirage cloak given what happened to chrono, but I suppose also feeling slightly in positive anticipation that maybe there could be some good changes going forward.

I stand by what I said in that thread regarding Staff though - needs more utility if they want to push it to utility. Staff 4 needs deleting and replacing with new utility.

Optimism is nonsensical at this point. You might as well start posting ideas for elite specializations you dreamt up.

I said slightly positive anticipation because there's always a sliver of hope otherwise one may as well stop playing.

There is a difference between a sliver of hope and asking them to kitten up a perfectly fine skill because you believe it could be better.Whenever you have to declare you stand by your opinion maybe post about a potential e-spec instead.. At least in that case if they take your advise and mess up you haven't impacted the rest of the profession.

I don't recall anywhere me asking them to do anything to mirage cloak. I stand by everything I wrote here:

I also maintain staff 4 needs modifying to make it more unique and impactful as a skill as it has been in a poor state since the number of chaos armour nerfs a long time ago - which I have suggested various things in the past. Even something as minor as providing aoe protection sharing on cast, or active aoe blind application on cast would go a long way to reinforcing it.

At this point I'm wondering if you're just wanting to perpetuate this due to my stance in your other thread. I've got no issue with you, but do recognise I am an advocate for preserving fun gameplay on mirage as it is the only spec and reason I play this game any more.

Why not have transmute like ele hasNot looking for a major upgrade though, i would like other weapons to be as viable instead of making staff stronger

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@Koen.1327 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:I am slightly on edge regarding mirage cloak given what happened to chrono, but I suppose also feeling slightly in positive anticipation that maybe there could be some good changes going forward.

I stand by what I said in that thread regarding Staff though - needs more utility if they want to push it to utility. Staff 4 needs deleting and replacing with new utility.

Optimism is nonsensical at this point. You might as well start posting ideas for elite specializations you dreamt up.

I said slightly positive anticipation because there's always a sliver of hope otherwise one may as well stop playing.

There is a difference between a sliver of hope and asking them to kitten up a perfectly fine skill because you believe it could be better.Whenever you have to declare you stand by your opinion maybe post about a potential e-spec instead.. At least in that case if they take your advise and mess up you haven't impacted the rest of the profession.

I don't recall anywhere me asking them to do anything to mirage cloak. I stand by everything I wrote here:

I also maintain staff 4 needs modifying to make it more unique and impactful as a skill as it has been in a poor state since the number of chaos armour nerfs a long time ago - which I have suggested various things in the past. Even something as minor as providing aoe protection sharing on cast, or active aoe blind application on cast would go a long way to reinforcing it.

At this point I'm wondering if you're just wanting to perpetuate this due to my stance in your other thread. I've got no issue with you, but do recognise I am an advocate for preserving fun gameplay on mirage as it is the only spec and reason I play this game any more.

Why not have transmute like ele hasNot looking for a major upgrade though, i would like other weapons to be as viable instead of making staff stronger

That's a great idea actually - to be able to hit 4 again to blast off the aura with some kind of enhanced effect. Not sure whether it should have the finisher because there is already the leap on 2.

Oh personally it's not a case of making staff stronger - it's a case of making it be more interesting than skill 1 spam with occasional use of 2, and almost requiring the trait to get anything decent out of 4 and 5 in terms of cooldown. The playstyle at the moment is pretty boring.I don't want to get to the stage where the entire weapon is carried by Phase Retreat.

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@Curunen.8729 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:I am slightly on edge regarding mirage cloak given what happened to chrono, but I suppose also feeling slightly in positive anticipation that maybe there could be some good changes going forward.

I stand by what I said in that thread regarding Staff though - needs more utility if they want to push it to utility. Staff 4 needs deleting and replacing with new utility.

Optimism is nonsensical at this point. You might as well start posting ideas for elite specializations you dreamt up.

I said slightly positive anticipation because there's always a sliver of hope otherwise one may as well stop playing.

There is a difference between a sliver of hope and asking them to kitten up a perfectly fine skill because you believe it could be better.Whenever you have to declare you stand by your opinion maybe post about a potential e-spec instead.. At least in that case if they take your advise and mess up you haven't impacted the rest of the profession.

I don't recall anywhere me asking them to do anything to mirage cloak. I stand by everything I wrote here:

I also maintain staff 4 needs modifying to make it more unique and impactful as a skill as it has been in a poor state since the number of chaos armour nerfs a long time ago - which I have suggested various things in the past. Even something as minor as providing aoe protection sharing on cast, or active aoe blind application on cast would go a long way to reinforcing it.

At this point I'm wondering if you're just wanting to perpetuate this due to my stance in your other thread. I've got no issue with you, but do recognise I am an advocate for preserving fun gameplay on mirage as it is the only spec and reason I play this game any more.

My response wasn't about mc. I simply don't understand why you would suggest a change to staff 4. It's fine. Even great in some instances.It's not as good as 2 or 5 but it doesn't need a redesign. Giving it a chained skill like @Koen.1327 suggested sure. Thinking they could push it farther than that without messing staff up further seems weird at this point. That's why I suggested you make an elite thread instead. If they mess up one of those weapons it doesn't affect the rest of mesmer.

If it has gotten to the point where mirage is your only reason to play I don't see why you would trust them with your suggestion.

Edit: I don't want to make it seem like I believe they are incompetent. They've made a lot of good decisions and reworks. I just believe they should concentrate on repairing stuff before they try for new stuff. It is a difficult job and they need to give themselves room to mess up.

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@Daniel Handler.4816 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:I am slightly on edge regarding mirage cloak given what happened to chrono, but I suppose also feeling slightly in positive anticipation that maybe there could be some good changes going forward.

I stand by what I said in that thread regarding Staff though - needs more utility if they want to push it to utility. Staff 4 needs deleting and replacing with new utility.

Optimism is nonsensical at this point. You might as well start posting ideas for elite specializations you dreamt up.

I said slightly positive anticipation because there's always a sliver of hope otherwise one may as well stop playing.

There is a difference between a sliver of hope and asking them to kitten up a perfectly fine skill because you believe it could be better.Whenever you have to declare you stand by your opinion maybe post about a potential e-spec instead.. At least in that case if they take your advise and mess up you haven't impacted the rest of the profession.

I don't recall anywhere me asking them to do anything to mirage cloak. I stand by everything I wrote here:

I also maintain staff 4 needs modifying to make it more unique and impactful as a skill as it has been in a poor state since the number of chaos armour nerfs a long time ago - which I have suggested various things in the past. Even something as minor as providing aoe protection sharing on cast, or active aoe blind application on cast would go a long way to reinforcing it.

At this point I'm wondering if you're just wanting to perpetuate this due to my stance in your other thread. I've got no issue with you, but do recognise I am an advocate for preserving fun gameplay on mirage as it is the only spec and reason I play this game any more.

My response wasn't about mc. I simply don't understand why you would suggest a change to staff 4. It's fine. Even great in some instances.It's not as good as 2 or 5 but it doesn't need a redesign. Giving it a chained skill like @Koen.1327 suggested sure. Thinking they could push it farther than that without messing staff up further seems weird at this point. That's why I suggested you make an elite thread instead. If they mess up one of those weapons it doesn't affect the rest of mesmer.

If it has gotten to the point where mirage is your only reason to play I don't see why you would trust them with your suggestion.

Edit: I don't want to make it seem like I believe they are incompetent. They've made a lot of good decisions and reworks. I just believe they should concentrate on repairing stuff before they try for new stuff. It is a difficult job and they need to give themselves room to mess up.

My reasoning for staff 4 is looking back at what it used to do with rng blind (understandably removed due to luck factor of counterplay) and before the icd on boon/condi procs (understandably too powerful at the time).

But more crucially I find it a dull concept - a skill that just gives an aura with single on activation minor aoe condi proc. And that aura has to be traited for to be somewhat decent, nevermind that it's easy to get the base aura effect from leaping through 5 with 2 or Jaunt etc making it less unique as a dedicated weapon skill.

In the spirit of trying to give more variety to staff rather than 111+2 monotonous gameplay, for me it would be nice to have a number 4 skill that also was more visually and mechanically interesting.

Comparing with Greatsword on the other hand where all the skills are fairly unique, or even our offhands which in general have interesting 4 and 5 skills, hence being more stimulating to play. At this point the only reason I continue to use staff is Phase Retreat is so powerful, otherwise any combination of main/offhand is likely more effective while also being more fun to use, especially if these damage nerfs go through to wvw and pve too.

Though I see your point that any kind of significant change is historically likely to turn out worse, so I can accept leaving things like this alone for now.

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