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ANet, Can we please get an announcement of how you intend to respond to the feedback on "templates"?


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They don't have to respond they just have to revamp them to be less hostile, buggy and clunky...

@Hannelore.8153 said:Have you ever considered that you're creating too much noise, some of it very angry, and there's no way any sane Human being would want to sift through all of that, especially when they likely aren't paid enough to do so on top of all their efforts ?

Companies are made of the people that work there, and alot of them are just trying to pay the bills. Have some empathy, and ArenaNet will likely communicate with the players more, but as it is the forums have become little more than anger, negativity and even borderline hatred. I'm a game developer myself and on our last project we had to shut the forums down because it was giving the other devs anxiety.

Would you really want to talk to someone who hates you ? Alot of these people aren't even buying anything.

Thats exactly what they want... So customers will shut up and get over it.. Well no. These Build tabs are a clunky broken mess and we actually have less build choices now than we did before they were added... Before we had three builds PvE, PvP and WVW, now we have 2 gear builds.. Its a joke.

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Here's your feedback, from the Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates:

@Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:We want to acknowledge that we are reading the feedback expressed in this thread and the other forums threads about the Build and Equipment Templates. We are discussing this feedback internally to determine how we can address it.

It's timely and appropriate. Anyone that professes they expect more I feel is either unrealistic in their expectations or simply being a provocateur.Players need to be more patient. There is a procedure to the process, one that anyone who works in an organisation with a critical mass of employees that deals with a public/customer-base can appreciate.

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Actually we wanted solutions several weeks ago when it was obvious via the information provided that the system was going to fall well short of even basic expectations, that it would work.We are now into the "We told you so" and they are asking us for solutions and feedback as they are so out of touch and behind the curve

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@Reverielle.3972 said:Here's your feedback, from the Official Feedback Thread about Build and Equipment Templates:

@Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:We want to acknowledge that we are reading the feedback expressed in this thread and the other forums threads about the Build and Equipment Templates. We are discussing this feedback internally to determine how we can address it.

It's timely and appropriate. Anyone that professes they expect more I feel is either unrealistic in their expectations or simply being a provocateur.Players need to be more patient. There is a procedure to the process, one that anyone who works in an organisation with a critical mass of employees that deals with a public/customer-base can appreciate.

Thanks for sharing!> @Acheron.4731 said:

From merged thread


We want to acknowledge that we are reading the feedback expressed in this thread and the other forums threads about the Build and Equipment Templates. We are discussing this feedback internally to determine how we can address it.

Stéphane Lo PrestiContent Marketing Manager


Thanks for sharing! :)

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@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@susana.7814 said:yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

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When HoT was released and all the players complained that an expansion should not carry the price of a full game, they just did the turtle and ignored the storm until it was over. so will they do now as well. its the new way of politicians and entrepreneurs to handle customer feedback, just ignore it long enough until the resistance is broken and continue with what you do. if theres no riot in the street everything is still ok, as people who rant their opinion into the internet are actually harming nobody...

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@SlateSloan.3654 said:When HoT was released and all the players complained that an expansion should not carry the price of a full game, they just did the turtle and ignored the storm until it was over. so will they do now as well. its the new way of politicians and entrepreneurs to handle customer feedback, just ignore it long enough until the resistance is broken and continue with what you do. if theres no riot in the street everything is still ok, as people who rant their opinion into the internet are actually harming nobody...

That is not really true though.If they had fully ignored the feedback from HoT release, they would have never sold PoF at a lower price than the base game and they would have never forced new players to purchase HoT in addition to PoF.

If you think they are going to fully ignore a game wide feature that affect all players from casual to hardcore that is also available at any lvl, I think you are just both very jaded and blowing things out of proportion.

Sure they are some refinements to make about the system but it doesn’t mean that the system is fundamentally broken.

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@susana.7814 said:

@susana.7814 said:yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

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@"SlateSloan.3654" said:When HoT was released and all the players complained that an expansion should not carry the price of a full game, they just did the turtle and ignored the storm until it was over. so will they do now as well. its the new way of politicians and entrepreneurs to handle customer feedback, just ignore it long enough until the resistance is broken and continue with what you do. if theres no riot in the street everything is still ok, as people who rant their opinion into the internet are actually harming nobody...

Of course you meant to say "All the <1% of the playerbase that post on the forums complained"..

IIRC ANET actually took notice of the negativity that surrounded the HoT launch and came back with some alterations.. notably providing an additional character slot for vet players.. they are not all bad I guessRioting does nothing but appease one's own need to be controversial and for others anarchy is their fun pit.Try asking those affected by riots and rebellion blockades how they feel about it when they get verbally abused just for living, working or trying to get somewhere or when their properties are damaged or destroyed, livelyhoods affected, shops looted.. yeah riots are fun things I guess.

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It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@susana.7814 said:yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

"Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

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@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

@susana.7814 said:yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

"Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

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@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

@susana.7814 said:yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

"Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

By the same logic, EA chose to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

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@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

Whales are a dependable source of income but since they've already done their big spending they're not profit-makers. Them giving away HoT with a PoF purchase pretty much confirms it's not the whales they're relying on. It's new player churn that makes the money. New players come in for a few months and impulse spend and then move on once they're bored. The frivolous stuff in the cash shop shows they know this is where their coin comes from and are aiming at them.

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@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

@susana.7814 said:yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

"Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

By the same logic, EA
chose
to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

With a sub based MMO I would say your theory would maybe have a little more mileage, but with the GW2 model players are free to come and go without issue and when the next LS update pops up they come back.Sure MMO's naturally decline as they age, but 7 yrs in I am reasonably confident GW2 has found its plateau. There is always natural erosion from that plateau and there are some picks that help steady it, especially when that content drop is imminent. That erosion hurts sub games a lot more than a B2P/F2P game which offers 3-4 monthly content drops, regular QoL and minor patches with the added twist of almost zero downtime over the first 7 years.There is always noise when something new drops, I am one of those that sometimes helps create it, but as I said there are always those that will jump on the pitchforks and torches bandwagon just because they think its fun.. lodge your disdain for the issues, but there is no need to be outwardly rude... one thing ANET has done time and time again is look to fix issues we players have in game or offer some form appeasement, but we should not expect it to be a given that they will always do it just because a few vocal forum posters think they are entitled.ANET is a business and anything the business has to put resources into needs be done in the interest of the business first and foremost. Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something.. it's just a little to early to make that call imo, especially as the priority right now is fixing bugs and getting the game stable after its implementation. So I say give it a few weeks at least before we rush to burn the stage.

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@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

@susana.7814 said:yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

"Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

By the same logic, EA
chose
to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

With a sub based MMO I would say your theory would maybe have a little more mileage, but with the GW2 model players are free to come and go without issue and when the next LS update pops up they come back.Sure MMO's naturally decline as they age, but 7 yrs in I am reasonably confident GW2 has found its plateau. There is always natural erosion from that plateau and there are some picks that help steady it, especially when that content drop is imminent. That erosion hurts sub games a lot more than a B2P/F2P game which offers 3-4 monthly content drops, regular QoL and minor patches with the added twist of almost zero downtime over the first 7 years.There is always noise when something new drops, I am one of those that sometimes helps create it, but as I said there are always those that will jump on the pitchforks and torches bandwagon just because they think its fun.. lodge your disdain for the issues, but there is no need to be outwardly rude... one thing ANET has done time and time again is look to fix issues we players have in game or offer some form appeasement, but we should not expect it to be a given that they will always do it just because a few vocal forum posters think they are entitled.ANET is a business and anything the business has to put resources into needs be done in the interest of the business first and foremost. Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something.. it's just a little to early to make that call imo, especially as the priority right now is fixing bugs and getting the game stable after its implementation. So I say give it a few weeks at least before we rush to burn the stage.

give it a few weeks? They've had more than a month of feedback and have continued to ignore everything.

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@susana.7814 said:

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

@susana.7814 said:yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

"Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

By the same logic, EA
chose
to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

With a sub based MMO I would say your theory would maybe have a little more mileage, but with the GW2 model players are free to come and go without issue and when the next LS update pops up they come back.Sure MMO's naturally decline as they age, but 7 yrs in I am reasonably confident GW2 has found its plateau. There is always natural erosion from that plateau and there are some picks that help steady it, especially when that content drop is imminent. That erosion hurts sub games a lot more than a B2P/F2P game which offers 3-4 monthly content drops, regular QoL and minor patches with the added twist of almost zero downtime over the first 7 years.There is always noise when something new drops, I am one of those that sometimes helps create it, but as I said there are always those that will jump on the pitchforks and torches bandwagon just because they think its fun.. lodge your disdain for the issues, but there is no need to be outwardly rude... one thing ANET has done time and time again is look to fix issues we players have in game or offer some form appeasement, but we should not expect it to be a given that they will always do it just because a few vocal forum posters think they are entitled.ANET is a business and anything the business has to put resources into needs be done in the interest of the business first and foremost. Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something.. it's just a little to early to make that call imo, especially as the priority right now is fixing bugs and getting the game stable after its implementation. So I say give it a few weeks at least before we rush to burn the stage.

give it a few weeks? They've had more than a month of feedback and have continued to ignore everything.

Sure they had a few weeks prior to the patch to gather info.. saw it was all about "I want, we want, must have, entitled" and let the patch go live.Now its in and working .. of sorts, they can now look to fix things, sift through the genuine issues and if necessary throw us an extra treat to munch on if they have the wiggle room to do so.Rome wasn't built in a day.

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@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

@susana.7814 said:yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

"Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

By the same logic, EA
chose
to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something..

"Vote with your wallet" is a myth and it simply doesn't work in today's gaming, when a whale's " vote" is worth so much more. What works, is creating enough negative buzz to hurt a company's public image. Something that's easier than ever in the age of social media.

I'm not saying the current template debacle is an issue that will achieve negative buzz of that magnitude. I'm just saying that, in general, players would be stupid not to use a tool so powerful.

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Its crazy how fast customers seem to think these are coded.. I don't like the implementation of build templates either but making changes takes weeks or months, full overhauls might take longer.. Although with Anet track record i cannot see an overhaul.

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

@susana.7814 said:yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

"Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

By the same logic, EA
chose
to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something..

"Vote with your wallet" is a myth and it simply doesn't work in today's gaming, when a whale's " vote" is worth so much more. What works, is creating enough negative buzz to hurt a company's public image. Something that's easier than ever in the age of social media.

I'm not saying the current template debacle is an issue that will achieve negative buzz of that magnitude. I'm just saying that, in general, players would be stupid not to use a tool so powerful.

You are better off hitting their twitters and facebooks en mass.. but you need lots of people one person just gets deleted.

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@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:

@AlexxxDelta.1806 said:It's still too early to announce any major changes. No matter how many forum threads and reddit posts they have, the feedback that matters to them the most is the gem store. If the results from there are positive, don't expect anything major.

I doubt sales will be up to expectations in their current form but you never know, people will waste money on anything these days.

@susana.7814 said:yeah saying nothing and ignoring all criticism is anets specialty.

Cos that kind of rude response is going to encourage ANET to converse with us rather than cl ose off the thread entirely.Whilst I too don't expect a miracle solution to the template issues highlighted in the feedback that has been forthcoming from the players both prior to (which ANET openly requested) and after it's implementation...there are better ways to convey your thoughts and feelings imo.

i disagree, if people keep showing they are upset, they will have to answer us eventually. Requesting feedback means nothing if you don't actually listen to it.

Disagree all you like but ANET will likely either infract and delete rude posts, close the thread or both.They don't have to say or do anything, so no they don't have to eventually a need especially to rude posts..Personally I would just give them some time and space to collate everything, fix bugs and then maybe we might get something back by way of response.

There are plenty of examples of gamer outcry that has had results. It all depends on the "strength" of the complaints and how much noise they create in media outside the narrow confines of a game's community.

"Mountgate" created a kittenstorm in forums and reddit and bled out to mainstream gaming media. Anet was forced to respond and backtrack a bit, although not to the extent players wanted. Same with HoT as you mentioned. And there are even stronger cases outside GW, like the whole Battlefront debacle.

It's all a matter of circumstances being right to create a good social media "storm". In an age where studios can make bank by catering to minorities instead of the majority, social media "outrage" is the best weapon gamers have.

ANET were not forced to do anything, they took on board feedback, much like what's being requested now, just that some can't wait to pick up pitchforks and light the torches, others just cry rudeness cos they like to.Previously ANET offered a half way house solution in terms of mount licences, and that imo was a good move.. with HoT they appeased vets by offering an extra slot. Neither had to be done, they chose to.. they could of done neither and players would still be here playing and whining about anything and everything.. me included.

By the same logic, EA
chose
to remove p2w lootboxes in Battlefront. Do you think they wanted to? It was a reaction to player outrage.

Anet wouldn't have changed a thing about licenses or HoT without the player complaints. Sitting in silent protest and waiting for some change to magically happen for no reason, makes no sense.

The notion that no matter what's happening, players will always be here playing, is false. It's like saying a previously good restaurant can start serving horrid food, dish after dish, and keep surviving long term on fame alone. It won't.

Keeping vets happy becomes more important as a MMO ages. Because the influx of new players will always dwindle with age, as the hype of novelty dies. Retention equals survival after a certain point.

Templates were a highly desired QoL for the playerbase for sure, but to bring that to fruition it has taken resource and now it needs to see a return on the effort, whether we like it or not - and that is the true power players have, if we don't like it we simply don't open our wallets. No matter how much huff and puff we put out on forums and reddits, it is ANET that ultimately decides if there is some wiggle room with build templates and what they can offer. They are in no way forced to do it, but if the numbers aren't working out as well as they hoped then perhaps that might encourage them to do something..

"Vote with your wallet" is a myth and it simply doesn't work in today's gaming, when a whale's " vote" is worth so much more. What works, is creating enough negative buzz to hurt a company's public image. Something that's easier than ever in the age of social media.

I'm not saying the current template debacle is an issue that will achieve negative buzz of that magnitude. I'm just saying that, in general, players would be stupid not to use a tool so powerful.

Bad press is still press.. that is why each update brings new players in and old players back.. the model easily allows for it . As I said if we were talking about a sub based MMO you might have more traction. The monthly returns from gemstore etc is what does the most talking not a few outspoken words from some entitled players. who can't get over the fact they wanted something so bad, but don't like having to pay for the luxury. Using third party options has been good not just for the players but for ANET in gauging its demand a little bit more accurately than putting fingers to the wind.

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but what response we wait?At firts - is template mostly done ok? - yes, it is mostly nice.Is non arcdps template users lose something ? - mostly no. Ofc need each time switch from open world to pvp/wvw build trait is strange, but this is not big issue.

Can be it cheaper or have "buy all option for whole account and future characters" whit magic 75% reduce price ? yes, it can be. And can be not be.

So, again, what response we wait ?

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