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Upcoming Changes to Fall Damage and Revival


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I am quite confused about the reasoning with the Signed of Undeath changes.I always considered the signets to be founded on balance between the passive and active parts. In a way that while the active part is very powerful, it makes you consider whether to use it in the moment because of the long cooldown and powerfull passive effect (that you are sacrificing for the whole cooldown).Considering this, looking at the changes, it will be 100% buff to the passive effect (which is already considered vital and quite powerful for many builds).But if we look at the active effect changes, the cooldown and cast time reductions could be considered a trade off with the target reduction (and even that with a pinch of salt in my opinion) , making the active effect as powerfull as it was. But the added health cost feels way too big and is straight up nerf for the active effect and adds another downside to the passive/active trade off all signets already have.In short - I feel like this change offsets the balance between the passive and active parts of the signet, as the passive part gets straight up buff, while the sum of changes for the active part ends up as a nerf. This all on a signet where I consider the passive part to be already superior to the active one.I would be very interested in more reasoning for this change, as the initial post does not offer any related to functionality of this signet.

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oh oh i like that!!When this is going to be set up, I'm going to laugh in W3 "castle" (raid)Rain of death mesmers ^^

"Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.This trait is fine if the game was balanced, and that the players had not enough easily and in too many numbers to block, dodge, blindly, invulnerability, resistance, stability,...

Signet of Undeath : currently gives 2% lifeforce per 3 seconds.This change increases it by 100% up to 4% per 3 seconds.When traited with Signets of Suffering you get 6% per 3 seconds which is a 100% increase from the previous 3% per 3 seconds.Increased passive lifeforce gain by 100%.

Too bad I thought in your first post that it increased the 100% life force that you generated that would have been a more pro-active sign.On the other hand it's really a shame that you didn't change the actif sign.One rez we don't need it in necro we have the whole blood line which is based on the rez if we want.Maybe Active sign :
Something that Aoe heal or something that would allow us that our life can't go below 50% of life for X seconds for example that would go well with the name of the sign.

Added additional health cost of 50% of base health to this skill.Can we commit suicide by activating this sign?Is the damage inflicted on us if the person is rez by the sign or activation?Is there a condition to this sign because if it is rez before or died before, it still inflicts damage on us?

Besides it wouldn't be bad if all the weapons skills of the necro generate LF + spectral skills so you could do many more spells by assigning them something else in addition as half of the skills of the necro and these spe are useless.

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Got to say, I quite enjoyed some of these Traits, especially Protectors Impact on my Heal Brand and Symbol Brand, assisting in some skips and just having fun with it. Sure it was niche Utility, but Utility nontheless. Now that is just gone without replacement or compensation, making the Trait just look fairly meh. Maybe reduce the CD a little bit and make Writ of Persistence actually increase the duration of the Symbol by the listed 2 seconds, rather than just one?

For Terrifying Descent I'm looking forward to the change, since one stack of 3 seconds of Torment on Fear every 30 seconds was just terrible, but I have a feeling you are still going to give it a way too long ICD, rather than just triggering on every CC, meaning it probably still won't be able to compete with Plague Sending, even as damage option via BIP etc, while lacking the Utility that provides.

The added health sacrifice in addition to the target reduction to Signet of Undeath seems just once again like some weird thematic choice for Necro over viability or functionality, just adding design bloat. The increase to the passive LF generation may be nice, but I don't see this skill ever being used as anything but a purely passive LF generator, if even that. Not sure what the goal here was, the skill already wasn't actively used (both in terms of being used at all, and even more so the active component of it).

For Peak Performance, I don't know why you are nerfing the active component to then add a passive buff. Imo we should get less passive modifiers and move towards more active combo elements, and this seems like a step backwards in terms of Skill/Trait design.(also, on a small unrelated note, in the 1 year since the change to Forceful Greatsword you still haven't noticed/addressed that it's still giving the 10% Damage buff to GS Skills, on top of the 120*2 Power that was supposed to replace it, and the CD reduction, and the Might on hit, despite stating in January this year that it was fixed)

In general I don't like this trend of removing Quality of Life from the game with either the promise of future changes which then either never come or just years down the road (often poorly thought out and either terribly over- or under performing), or to then sell us that QoL back in the Gemstore.

There better not be some "Fall Dampener" in the Gemstore soon.

A mastery could be neat though, although that would still feel less unique as an always active, than specing into these Traits did.Doing some JP and attempting a skip where ever mounts or gliding aren't a thing and then wondering if you can make some jump, just to then remember that there is a trait to reduce falling damage, taking it and then just so surviving, can be a rewarding and engaging gameplay experience (one i had a few times over the years). A falling damage mastery on the other hand is.. functional sure, but utterly boring.No Falling damage reduction at all anymore just removes all of those jumps, skips and interactions an inquisitive player could previously make, just reducing game complexity.

I do want to urge you not to make changes just for changes sake. Unless you have a design goal in mind of where to take these Traits in the very near future, or ideally in the patch itself, otherwise changes like this just come across as very confused.Stating 50% Fall damage reduction is too complicated/bloated for people to understand as reasoning for these mostly otherwise one line of text Traits is... odd to say the least.Also the focus on promoting passive gameplay and modifiers over active gameplay and interactions seems questionable as well.

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Wait wait wait.

So we are increasing passive life force from signet of undeath.That will lead to this:Support necros don't have to stack as much bonus health as they do right know. (It's done right now to be free in choice for the other 2 utility skills and not having to use life force generators there as well)

So we basically get bonus health lowered and have to pay 50% of base health for the Rez?That's ~9,5k dmg we dealing to ourself!

Let's compare that to guards signet:

Guard has 15 seconds cooldown more, but doesn't have to pay life for it.

That's an big oof here. Unless this self inflicted dmg can be mitigated with barrier.If not, that's just a passive signet, that noone will ever use actively.

Just like some other necro skills I guess

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"Overcomplicating". One line of text is overcomplicating. Jesus this removal is pointless.If you really wanted to address Fall Damage Reduction traits only being taken for JPs, all you have to do is just add "Combat Only". Then you're free to buff or rework the rest of the trait to make taking FDR as part of a regular build make sense. An example is to simply move FDR to Mecha Legs and change the Grenade aspect of it to something else that fits the traitline. Buff the Grenadier trait with something else and you're done. Something like Peak Performance is fine as is however. If you REALLY wanted to change it, I'd say only reduce fall damage for every enemy it hits.

in a post-glider/mount worldYeah, that's great but you can't mount in combat, hence my emphasis on the "Combat Only" tag, Only takes a couple more seconds of critical thinking and creativity, Anet.

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@"XenoSpyro.1780" said:"Overcomplicating". One line of text is overcomplicating. Jesus this removal is pointless.If you really wanted to address Fall Damage Reduction traits only being taken for JPs, all you have to do is just add "Combat Only".Whoa whoa whoa, that's TWO lines, then.

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This is a terrible idea, and I felt compelled to make my first ever forum comment because of it. Fall damage reduction traits have tons of usefulness where gliding and mounts are disabled (Fractals, Dungeons, personal stories, sPVP, WvW). This is as bad as when you removed banner skills: a useless nerf that kills creative gameplay and returns nothing to fill the void it creates.

Don't punish niche players.

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Question :The elementalist trait "Arcane Abatement" casts a field (depending on your attunement) when taking fall damages. These fields are pretty usefull in some situations so here's my question

Does the new trait keep the field cast or do you plain on adding it elsewhere ? Such as "cast a field depending on your attunement on healing skill " ? cause the healing on attunement swap is nice but left alone seems pretty weak maybe?

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Mounts / Gliders do not apply in Raids (Twisted Castle) or jumping puzzles as they are disabled.

There are plenty of good reasons to take a fall damage trait here! PvE has good reason for these traits - removal seems a bit nonsensical and the argument because there is now gliding/mounts doesn’t fly imo.

Raids actually heavily use the faster res which can often be essential to revive squad members in order to avoid a mechanic or get them out of a difficult situation to avoid a team wipe. I don’t quite understand why these traits are being worked on when they are non priority items for balance and the -be aspects have not been discussed. I would like to see the pro/cons of making this change in reflect of the above feedback.

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Oh rip... Peak Performance's launch cc on fall damage on warrior... I will miss that a lot :cry:It was so fun to trigger in WvW in certain situations :/Also, please consider adding rune or food that reduces fall damage, because you know... you cant use mounts and gliders in fractals/dungeons...

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Are people seriously complaining about losing fall damage reduction, the trait function that is non essential to any build, is unimportant in 99% of pve, and only slightly useful in wvw? When you hear the argument that anet should just ignore whatever the more casual player base says about game design/balance this is why.

Regarding actual changes, i don;t know if reducing the cooldown of signet of mercy is a good idea given firebrand's dominance in pvp as the go to support, unless there are other changes planned in the same patch that reduce fb's potency.

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Do we have to see this set of changes as the "PvE" changes? I mean, if that's the case, I'm sure PvP/WvW'er will have the right to complains about the consequences of those changes in their respective gamemodes. (Not that any of those make a big difference in PvE anyway)

Please ANet, do remember that shorter cast time on revive skills will result on a flood of complaints in the sPvP subforum.

@"Nath Forge Tempete.1645" said:Question :The elementalist trait "Arcane Abatement" casts a field (depending on your attunement) when taking fall damages. These fields are pretty usefull in some situations so here's my question

Does the new trait keep the field cast or do you plain on adding it elsewhere ? Such as "cast a field depending on your attunement on healing skill " ? cause the healing on attunement swap is nice but left alone seems pretty weak maybe?

The odds are that the trait fonctionality will now only be "heal for 330 when you swap attunment".

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@Nimon.7840 said:Wait wait wait.

So we are increasing passive life force from signet of undeath.That will lead to this:Support necros don't have to stack as much bonus health as they do right know. (It's done right now to be free in choice for the other 2 utility skills and not having to use life force generators there as well)

So we basically get bonus health lowered and have to pay 50% of base health for the Rez?That's ~9,5k dmg we dealing to ourself!

Just going to point out that is not how base health works. Necro has a base health of 9212. You then gain 10,000 HP from the 1000 vitality everyone has. The skill will have the same cost as desert shroud,4606 at level 80.

Let's compare that to guards signet:

Guard has 15 seconds cooldown more, but doesn't have to pay life for it.

When you look at the traits it's a different story. You may say nobody takes it but this is a pretty good incentive to do so. I feel it's balanced around how strong it now is when traited.

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@"Robert Gee.9246" said:

Necromancer

  • Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

Define control effects please. Are we talking hard cc here, or both hard and soft cc?If just hard cc, then a single stack of 3s torment cannot compete with Plague Sending and it's ability to transfer any amount of stacks from up to two conditions. Not to mention Plague Sending has defensive uses, while Insidious Disruption is supposed to be purely offensive option.

  • Signet of Undeath: Reduced recharge to 75 seconds in all game modes. Reduced cast time from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds. Reduced number of allies revived from 3 to 1. Added additional health cost of 50% of base health to this skill. Increased passive lifeforce gain by 100%.

Liking this change! This will prolly make Reapers happy campers, giving them core necro level LF degen with Signets of Suffering + Signet of Undeath. Core necros...well yeah, they'll be really tanky, but Death Shroud is the worst shroud, and rarely a core necro has any reason to camp it other then soaking up damage.Death Shroud itself still needs addressinng, core necro has the worst damage of all professions and specs, completely unable to be competitive in end game PvE.

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Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed to "Insidious Disruption". It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.

does that mean that even soft controls like blind/slow/cripple / weakness will also cause Torment ?
if so this could be quite poweful ! remember Scourge got more torment damage and also burning when you cause torment .!

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