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Rampage should be nerfed in WvW also not only PvP


Arheundel.6451

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@GaijinGuy.8476 said:I can understand the issues in PvP as you have to stay in the circle and one team is only 5 players (the aoe cap) but I haven’t really seen it being used a lot in WvW and if it was I didn’t notice any difference it made.

This. While it is powerful in WvW, it can be avoided and kited. In PvP, that becomes a real issue due to the required proximity of the game mode. They should tone it down but not gut it in WvW.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Rampage dps is broken and needs toned down but their planned damage coefficient decrease is far to much. Also the fact it locks you out of any clears can have u downed in seconds considering how out of hand condi's are these days. I was in rampage cleaving a ranger down full hp and a burn guard put so many stacks of burns on me so fast that I was down in seconds even with all of rampages damage reduction meaning very little. These days u are literally on fire 80% of ur match constantly clearing burns and other condi's to just have them reapplied and rampage locks u out of any clears meaning death pretty fast.

If you werent using rsmpage, would you have an issue against burn fb? No, you wouldnt. God forbid warr has a tiny window of vulnerability among all the stances, wepswaps, mobility, invulns.

Lol oh a good fb definitely still poses a challenge but yes rampage being broken dps wise tilts the fight into the warriors favor but gutting rampage to being not really worth popping isnt better as were trying to balance the skills to still be worth using and effective while not providing a unfair advantage right? Also I dont get this warrior imune to condi bs. I run shake it off a 2x ammo skill and a trait that drops condi on weapon swap which is decent but when I'm in a fight I'm swapping weapons based on cd's and the skills I need making the clear kinds unreliable but decent. Warriors arnt weak to condi's but other classes have their multiple clear options to, warrior isnt much of a outlier here. I'd say all classes are weak to condi's at the moment because condi's in general are tuned to high. Condis right now on classes like fire weavers,fb, thieves etc can out put condis with dots where each tick hits like a burst and that's silly.

Naw. Thats plain wrong. When warr skills hit you for 9k on full tank gear INSTADMG, with CC chains and what not, condi isnt really the issue, as it can be cleansed (reapplication is an issue ofc, and I can think of 2 classes that need tuning there- condi DD and mirage/mesmer). Main fb condi is burn, cover condies are not so many like a mesmer's or necro's. And - the more you know! - warr has this thing called resistance, which a fb cant possibly remove. Resistance offers full immunity against condies. That means that fb will... Burn his cds on you, you will have 25 stacks of burning, pop resistance, pewpew fb, cleanse if too much gets built up, win. Mesmers and necs can remove resistance. Apart from core nec full trailblazer roam build, nec is warr fodder. I never said "nerf rampage" btw. Thanks for your input.

Edit: among same skilled players, warr should not ever lose to a burn fb.

9k vs full "tank" ? May be if the war was strength spell breaker then 9k could happen to another glass dude or even a zerker stat warrior. You must be fibbing

I will show you the numbers after i fight a warr on pure tb nec.

Ive played strength, disci, spb in wvw roaming and i have met rangers that i hit for 2k with skills that hit full glass canon builds for around 8k, guard can have high amounts of armor and protection, so no, you wont hit a fullltank guard, or infact no fulltank class for 9k lol.

Also, where are those warriors getting perma resistance from? Berserker stance? Yeaaa, have you seen the cd on that, and also a guard who uses all his burn skills at once should lose any fight.The dangerous things are builds that always keep 3-5 burning stacks up, because thats enough dmg to kill anyone.

Not to mention that guard has enough sustain, block, blind and protection to outlife a warrior.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Rampage dps is broken and needs toned down but their planned damage coefficient decrease is far to much. Also the fact it locks you out of any clears can have u downed in seconds considering how out of hand condi's are these days. I was in rampage cleaving a ranger down full hp and a burn guard put so many stacks of burns on me so fast that I was down in seconds even with all of rampages damage reduction meaning very little. These days u are literally on fire 80% of ur match constantly clearing burns and other condi's to just have them reapplied and rampage locks u out of any clears meaning death pretty fast.

If you werent using rsmpage, would you have an issue against burn fb? No, you wouldnt. God forbid warr has a tiny window of vulnerability among all the stances, wepswaps, mobility, invulns.

Lol oh a good fb definitely still poses a challenge but yes rampage being broken dps wise tilts the fight into the warriors favor but gutting rampage to being not really worth popping isnt better as were trying to balance the skills to still be worth using and effective while not providing a unfair advantage right? Also I dont get this warrior imune to condi bs. I run shake it off a 2x ammo skill and a trait that drops condi on weapon swap which is decent but when I'm in a fight I'm swapping weapons based on cd's and the skills I need making the clear kinds unreliable but decent. Warriors arnt weak to condi's but other classes have their multiple clear options to, warrior isnt much of a outlier here. I'd say all classes are weak to condi's at the moment because condi's in general are tuned to high. Condis right now on classes like fire weavers,fb, thieves etc can out put condis with dots where each tick hits like a burst and that's silly.

Naw. Thats plain wrong. When warr skills hit you for 9k on full tank gear INSTADMG, with CC chains and what not, condi isnt really the issue, as it can be cleansed (reapplication is an issue ofc, and I can think of 2 classes that need tuning there- condi DD and mirage/mesmer). Main fb condi is burn, cover condies are not so many like a mesmer's or necro's. And - the more you know! - warr has this thing called resistance, which a fb cant possibly remove. Resistance offers full immunity against condies. That means that fb will... Burn his cds on you, you will have 25 stacks of burning, pop resistance, pewpew fb, cleanse if too much gets built up, win. Mesmers and necs can remove resistance. Apart from core nec full trailblazer roam build, nec is warr fodder. I never said "nerf rampage" btw. Thanks for your input.

Edit: among same skilled players, warr should not ever lose to a burn fb.

Warriors don't hit full tank for 9k. I'm lucky to hit a glass build for 9k with a burst skill.

There's lots of hyperbole when it comes to warriors. We have crazy sustain when we build for it, but it's very rare for a warrior to do more than 3k damage with about any skill. Unless they build for it, which makes them way way easier to kill.

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@Rakan Buuyon.8576 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Rampage dps is broken and needs toned down but their planned damage coefficient decrease is far to much. Also the fact it locks you out of any clears can have u downed in seconds considering how out of hand condi's are these days. I was in rampage cleaving a ranger down full hp and a burn guard put so many stacks of burns on me so fast that I was down in seconds even with all of rampages damage reduction meaning very little. These days u are literally on fire 80% of ur match constantly clearing burns and other condi's to just have them reapplied and rampage locks u out of any clears meaning death pretty fast.

If you werent using rsmpage, would you have an issue against burn fb? No, you wouldnt. God forbid warr has a tiny window of vulnerability among all the stances, wepswaps, mobility, invulns.

Lol oh a good fb definitely still poses a challenge but yes rampage being broken dps wise tilts the fight into the warriors favor but gutting rampage to being not really worth popping isnt better as were trying to balance the skills to still be worth using and effective while not providing a unfair advantage right? Also I dont get this warrior imune to condi bs. I run shake it off a 2x ammo skill and a trait that drops condi on weapon swap which is decent but when I'm in a fight I'm swapping weapons based on cd's and the skills I need making the clear kinds unreliable but decent. Warriors arnt weak to condi's but other classes have their multiple clear options to, warrior isnt much of a outlier here. I'd say all classes are weak to condi's at the moment because condi's in general are tuned to high. Condis right now on classes like fire weavers,fb, thieves etc can out put condis with dots where each tick hits like a burst and that's silly.

Naw. Thats plain wrong. When warr skills hit you for 9k on full tank gear INSTADMG, with CC chains and what not, condi isnt really the issue, as it can be cleansed (reapplication is an issue ofc, and I can think of 2 classes that need tuning there- condi DD and mirage/mesmer). Main fb condi is burn, cover condies are not so many like a mesmer's or necro's. And - the more you know! - warr has this thing called resistance, which a fb cant possibly remove. Resistance offers full immunity against condies. That means that fb will... Burn his cds on you, you will have 25 stacks of burning, pop resistance, pewpew fb, cleanse if too much gets built up, win. Mesmers and necs can remove resistance. Apart from core nec full trailblazer roam build, nec is warr fodder. I never said "nerf rampage" btw. Thanks for your input.

Edit: among same skilled players, warr should not ever lose to a burn fb.

Warriors don't hit full tank for 9k. I'm lucky to hit a glass build for 9k with a burst skill.

There's lots of hyperbole when it comes to warriors. We have crazy sustain when we build for it, but it's very rare for a warrior to do more than 3k damage with about any skill. Unless they build for it, which makes them way way easier to kill.

This has been my experience as well.

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Dash* Rampage Skill 3 has a 2.4 Power mod.

Assume1000 Weapon damage (Lower end of ascended weapon average, ease of calculation), 3500 power (Easy to hit with zerks + full might), and 200% crit damage (Approx what full zerk gives you with no rune bonuses) on 3300 armor target (Full trailblazers or ministrels light armor).

1000 3500 2.4 / 3300 = 2545 2 (crit) = 5090 damage. Throw in scholars bonus(1.05), force bonus(1.05), peak performance(1.2), and warriors sprint (1.03)5090 1.2 1.05 1.05 *1.03 = 6936.

So 7k on a full tank necro with relatively low end numbers. A full infused ascended zerk scholar warrior with max might + BL stacks has 4,486 power, 1155 max possible weapon damage, and 249% crit damage.

1155 4486 2.4 / 3300 = 3768 2.49 = 9,382 damage. With same damage bonuses9,382 1.2 1.05 1.05 * 1.03 = 12,786 damage.

Ouch.

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@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:That elite is broken behind anything I ever seen,
it was an extremely bad balance decision
, it should have been deleted in all gamemodes..a long time ago and this time limiting the nerfs to pvp mode only will be surely a grave mistake, the elite is overstacked with benefits and seemingly not cons

And so Warriors should run what Elite instead? Bubble is only used in zergs, everything else is useless except Signet of Rage which has it's limits.

You run a no busted elite like the rest

So they need to make Rampage as useless as every other Elite on Warrior so it's in-line with every other specs Elite in the game...? Then i want to be able to have Warrior Stealth because Thieves, Mesmers, Rangers and Engineers have it and it's not fair we don't!

Edited: I forgot Rangers and Engis have stealth...

Not as useless, as 'usefull'And not a ''win' button

dont go down, have more aoe than enemy does and u will win, stack more aoe boon/barrier/damage and ememy ranpage will be useless, thats how game is ment to be played.

@God.2708 alot of builds on other classes hit more than that :P

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@Aeolus.3615 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:That elite is broken behind anything I ever seen,
it was an extremely bad balance decision
, it should have been deleted in all gamemodes..a long time ago and this time limiting the nerfs to pvp mode only will be surely a grave mistake, the elite is overstacked with benefits and seemingly not cons

And so Warriors should run what Elite instead? Bubble is only used in zergs, everything else is useless except Signet of Rage which has it's limits.

You run a no busted elite like the rest

So they need to make Rampage as useless as every other Elite on Warrior so it's in-line with every other specs Elite in the game...? Then i want to be able to have Warrior Stealth because Thieves, Mesmers, Rangers and Engineers have it and it's not fair we don't!

Edited: I forgot Rangers and Engis have stealth...

Not as useless, as 'usefull'And not a ''win' button

dont go down, have more aoe than enemy does and u will win, stack more aoe boon/barrier/damage and ememy ranpage will be useless, thats how game is ment to be played.

@God.2708 alot of builds on other classes hit more than that :P

I mean sure, but most other builds don't have access to a slew of blocks, invulns, and tremendous sustain via might makes right whilst doing that. Not that I'm saying it's broken, the math was more for the people above saying its hyperbole. A full zerk strength disci spellbreaker war with scholar runes is a fairly viable roamer.

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@God.2708 said:Dash* Rampage Skill 3 has a 2.4 Power mod.

Assume1000 Weapon damage (Lower end of ascended weapon average, ease of calculation), 3500 power (Easy to hit with zerks + full might), and 200% crit damage (Approx what full zerk gives you with no rune bonuses) on 3300 armor target (Full trailblazers or ministrels light armor).

1000 3500 2.4 / 3300 = 2545 2 (crit) = 5090 damage. Throw in scholars bonus(1.05), force bonus(1.05), peak performance(1.2), and warriors sprint (1.03)5090 1.2 1.05 1.05 *1.03 = 6936.

So 7k on a full tank necro with relatively low end numbers. A full infused ascended zerk scholar warrior with max might + BL stacks has 4,486 power, 1155 max possible weapon damage, and 249% crit damage.

1155 4486 2.4 / 3300 = 3768 2.49 = 9,382 damage. With same damage bonuses9,382 1.2 1.05 1.05 * 1.03 = 12,786 damage.

Ouch.

So if we go full glass, we have one skill in our elite that can do half as much as a backstab?

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@Rakan Buuyon.8576 said:

@God.2708 said:Dash* Rampage Skill 3 has a 2.4 Power mod.

Assume1000 Weapon damage (Lower end of ascended weapon average, ease of calculation), 3500 power (Easy to hit with zerks + full might), and 200% crit damage (Approx what full zerk gives you with no rune bonuses) on 3300 armor target (Full trailblazers or ministrels light armor).

1000
3500
2.4 / 3300 = 2545
2 (crit) = 5090 damage. Throw in scholars bonus(1.05), force bonus(1.05), peak performance(1.2), and warriors sprint (1.03)5090
1.2
1.05
1.05 *1.03 = 6936.

So 7k on a full tank necro with relatively low end numbers. A full infused ascended zerk scholar warrior with max might + BL stacks has 4,486 power, 1155 max possible weapon damage, and 249% crit damage.

1155
4486
2.4 / 3300 = 3768
2.49 = 9,382 damage. With same damage bonuses9,382
1.2
1.05
1.05 * 1.03 = 12,786 damage.

Ouch.

So if we go full glass, we have one skill in our elite that can do half as much as a backstab?

Backstab shares the same 2.4 power mod as rush, so it is the exact same damage. The thief would also have to go full glass, so your attack that hits for 12.7k damage on a full trailblazers necro will likely turn said thief into a fine blood mist. (19.8k damage if you were wondering, one shot them through full marauders even)

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@GaijinGuy.8476 said:I can understand the issues in PvP as you have to stay in the circle and one team is only 5 players (the aoe cap) but I haven’t really seen it being used a lot in WvW and if it was I didn’t notice any difference it made.Burst Core Warrior and Magebane Tether into Rampage Combo Spellbreakers use this skill in smallscale and it's absurd as it carries more than any skill in the game should.

The planned nerf seems to be too much but if they remove the damage of any hard cc skill in the game (like it seems) it's back in line.

And dear Warrior players: don't forget that in WvW you still have your broken stance uptime granting you 10 seconds of invulnerability unless at least 2 Necros unload all their corrupts on you (which won't happen if you don't suck at the game as you have plenty of mobility).

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@GaijinGuy.8476 said:I can understand the issues in PvP as you have to stay in the circle and one team is only 5 players (the aoe cap) but I haven’t really seen it being used a lot in WvW and if it was I didn’t notice any difference it made.Burst Core Warrior and Magebane Tether into Rampage Combo Spellbreakers use this skill in smallscale and it's absurd as it carries more than any skill in the game should.

The planned nerf seems to be too much but if they remove the damage of any hard cc skill in the game (like it seems) it's back in line.

And dear Warrior players: don't forget that in WvW you still have your broken stance uptime granting you 10 seconds of invulnerability unless at least 2 Necros unload all their corrupts on you (which won't happen if you don't suck at the game as you have plenty of mobility).

10 seconds you say? Would that be the double Endure Pain that only negates physical damage and corrupts do nothing or the double Resistance (Which not a lot run that i know of) which 1 is a pulsing Resistance of 1 second and the other than pops resistance once and when it gets rupted, it's gone?

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@Fish.2769 said:

@"GaijinGuy.8476" said:I can understand the issues in PvP as you have to stay in the circle and one team is only 5 players (the aoe cap) but I haven’t really seen it being used a lot in WvW and if it was I didn’t notice any difference it made.Burst Core Warrior and Magebane Tether into Rampage Combo Spellbreakers use this skill in smallscale and it's absurd as it carries more than any skill in the game should.

The planned nerf seems to be too much but if they remove the damage of any hard cc skill in the game (like it seems) it's back in line.

And dear Warrior players: don't forget that in WvW you still have your broken stance uptime granting you 10 seconds of invulnerability unless at least 2 Necros unload all their corrupts on you (which won't happen if you don't suck at the game as you have plenty of mobility).

10 seconds you say? Would that be the double Endure Pain that only negates physical damage and corrupts do nothing or the double Resistance (Which not a lot run that i know of) which 1 is a pulsing Resistance of 1 second and the other than pops resistance once and when it gets rupted, it's gone?Defense Spellbreakers are the most durable build in the zerg. No other spec can rush into the enemy blob and return without a scratch. That's the potential of your defensive option (bubble tank) as a Warrior.

If you want to roam you can run sth. like that and be a serious thread to anyone if you are good at your class:https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Spellbreaker_-_Magebane_Roamerhttps://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Dodging_Makes_Right

Both builds can kite like crazy to recover and have a fair amount of sustain. They are already a tough matchup without Rampage. When popping Rampage at the right moment they can faceroll any other build.

Play the two builds above in combination with 2 firebrands and you have a broken roaming combo that deals tons of damage and is almost impossible to kill.

@Fish.2769 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:And so Warriors should run what Elite instead? Bubble is only used in zergs, everything else is useless except Signet of Rage which has it's limits.That's such a dumb argumentation. Something overpowered is justified because other options are only average? Is that how you would balance a game?

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@God.2708 said:

@God.2708 said:Dash* Rampage Skill 3 has a 2.4 Power mod.

Assume1000 Weapon damage (Lower end of ascended weapon average, ease of calculation), 3500 power (Easy to hit with zerks + full might), and 200% crit damage (Approx what full zerk gives you with no rune bonuses) on 3300 armor target (Full trailblazers or ministrels light armor).

1000
3500
2.4 / 3300 = 2545
2 (crit) = 5090 damage. Throw in scholars bonus(1.05), force bonus(1.05), peak performance(1.2), and warriors sprint (1.03)5090
1.2
1.05
1.05 *1.03 = 6936.

So 7k on a full tank necro with relatively low end numbers. A full infused ascended zerk scholar warrior with max might + BL stacks has 4,486 power, 1155 max possible weapon damage, and 249% crit damage.

1155
4486
2.4 / 3300 = 3768
2.49 = 9,382 damage. With same damage bonuses9,382
1.2
1.05
1.05 * 1.03 = 12,786 damage.

Ouch.

So if we go full glass, we have one skill in our elite that can do half as much as a backstab?

Backstab shares the same 2.4 power mod as rush, so it is the exact same damage. The thief would also have to go full glass, so your attack that hits for 12.7k damage on a full trailblazers necro will likely turn said thief into a fine blood mist. (19.8k damage if you were wondering, one shot them through full marauders even)

That's weird, cause my backstabs hit for 12k in not a glass build. Biggest one was 25k as DE glass build. The best rush I've done is like 10k on a Lord.

But that's not the point. Every class has access to something that does 10k+, just most of these things aren't an elite on a long cool down.

For example, without going full glass, using actually a pretty good sustain build, staff 5 on thief hits 15k+, and that's spamable and multiple target.

Your average warrior running rampage isn't going to break 5k with any attack. Yeah that's not awful damage, and it does hard CC, but it's an elite that also removes all your utilities. The attacks are super telegraphed and easy to dodge. Just earlier today I was in a 1v2 against two warriors who used it at the same time, and out of both of them, they only managed to land one hit on me.

It's just not the "I win" button people make it out to be. Maybe against glass builds that don't know what's going on, but they are easy to kill no matter what elite you have. There's a reason people only take it while roaming, and even then not everyone does. It's just not this super powerful thing.

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@Rakan Buuyon.8576 said:

@God.2708 said:

@God.2708 said:Dash* Rampage Skill 3 has a 2.4 Power mod.

Assume1000 Weapon damage (Lower end of ascended weapon average, ease of calculation), 3500 power (Easy to hit with zerks + full might), and 200% crit damage (Approx what full zerk gives you with no rune bonuses) on 3300 armor target (Full trailblazers or ministrels light armor).

1000
3500
2.4 / 3300 = 2545
2 (crit) = 5090 damage. Throw in scholars bonus(1.05), force bonus(1.05), peak performance(1.2), and warriors sprint (1.03)5090
1.2
1.05
1.05 *1.03 = 6936.

So 7k on a full tank necro with relatively low end numbers. A full infused ascended zerk scholar warrior with max might + BL stacks has 4,486 power, 1155 max possible weapon damage, and 249% crit damage.

1155
4486
2.4 / 3300 = 3768
2.49 = 9,382 damage. With same damage bonuses9,382
1.2
1.05
1.05 * 1.03 = 12,786 damage.

Ouch.

So if we go full glass, we have one skill in our elite that can do half as much as a backstab?

Backstab shares the same 2.4 power mod as rush, so it is the exact same damage. The thief would also have to go full glass, so your attack that hits for 12.7k damage on a full trailblazers necro will likely turn said thief into a fine blood mist. (19.8k damage if you were wondering, one shot them through full marauders even)

That's weird, cause my backstabs hit for 12k in not a glass build. Biggest one was 25k as DE glass build. The best rush I've done is like 10k on a Lord.

But that's not the point. Every class has access to something that does 10k+, just most of these things aren't an elite on a long cool down.

For example, without going full glass, using actually a pretty good sustain build, staff 5 on thief hits 15k+, and that's spamable and multiple target.

Your average warrior running rampage isn't going to break 5k with any attack. Yeah that's not awful damage, and it does hard CC, but it's an elite that also removes all your utilities. The attacks are super telegraphed and easy to dodge. Just earlier today I was in a 1v2 against two warriors who used it at the same time, and out of both of them, they only managed to land one hit on me.

It's just not the "I win" button people make it out to be. Maybe against glass builds that don't know what's going on, but they are easy to kill no matter what elite you have. There's a reason people only take it while roaming, and even then not everyone does. It's just not this super powerful thing.

I mean. You're being disingenuous here with the argument. Rush is on a 6s CD and is a 1.2k range dash that can be followed up by several different 1.2-2.0 power mod attacks on a similarly low CD that also have stuns, knockbacks, etc attached. People using it badly is not an example of how weak it is, nor are extreme examples of it performing really well an example of how strong it is. It does precisely what it is suppose to, locks down and destroys a player that has used all their dodges and/or stunbreaks. If you use it to soon the enemy can negate it very easily.

I will say any warrior hitting sub 5k with rampage simply doesn't know how to play. It hits for 5-7k damage on crits with a very VERY middling damage set against near max armor targets as I pointed out above.

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@God.2708 said:

@God.2708 said:

@God.2708 said:Dash* Rampage Skill 3 has a 2.4 Power mod.

Assume1000 Weapon damage (Lower end of ascended weapon average, ease of calculation), 3500 power (Easy to hit with zerks + full might), and 200% crit damage (Approx what full zerk gives you with no rune bonuses) on 3300 armor target (Full trailblazers or ministrels light armor).

1000
3500
2.4 / 3300 = 2545
2 (crit) = 5090 damage. Throw in scholars bonus(1.05), force bonus(1.05), peak performance(1.2), and warriors sprint (1.03)5090
1.2
1.05
1.05 *1.03 = 6936.

So 7k on a full tank necro with relatively low end numbers. A full infused ascended zerk scholar warrior with max might + BL stacks has 4,486 power, 1155 max possible weapon damage, and 249% crit damage.

1155
4486
2.4 / 3300 = 3768
2.49 = 9,382 damage. With same damage bonuses9,382
1.2
1.05
1.05 * 1.03 = 12,786 damage.

Ouch.

So if we go full glass, we have one skill in our elite that can do half as much as a backstab?

Backstab shares the same 2.4 power mod as rush, so it is the exact same damage. The thief would also have to go full glass, so your attack that hits for 12.7k damage on a full trailblazers necro will likely turn said thief into a fine blood mist. (19.8k damage if you were wondering, one shot them through full marauders even)

That's weird, cause my backstabs hit for 12k in not a glass build. Biggest one was 25k as DE glass build. The best rush I've done is like 10k on a Lord.

But that's not the point. Every class has access to something that does 10k+, just most of these things aren't an elite on a long cool down.

For example, without going full glass, using actually a pretty good sustain build, staff 5 on thief hits 15k+, and that's spamable and multiple target.

Your average warrior running rampage isn't going to break 5k with any attack. Yeah that's not awful damage, and it does hard CC, but it's an elite that also removes all your utilities. The attacks are super telegraphed and easy to dodge. Just earlier today I was in a 1v2 against two warriors who used it at the same time, and out of both of them, they only managed to land one hit on me.

It's just not the "I win" button people make it out to be. Maybe against glass builds that don't know what's going on, but they are easy to kill no matter what elite you have. There's a reason people only take it while roaming, and even then not everyone does. It's just not this super powerful thing.

I mean. You're being disingenuous here with the argument. Rush is on a 6s CD and is a 1.2k range dash that can be followed up by several different 1.2-2.0 power mod attacks on a similarly low CD that also have stuns, knockbacks, etc attached. People using it badly is not an example of how weak it is, nor are extreme examples of it performing really well an example of how strong it is. It does precisely what it is suppose to, locks down and destroys a player that has used all their dodges and/or stunbreaks. If you use it to soon the enemy can negate it very easily.

I will say any warrior hitting sub 5k with rampage simply doesn't know how to play. It hits for 5-7k damage on crits with a very VERY middling damage set against near max armor targets as I pointed out above.

You are aware rush is tied to rampage right? You get a max of two activations of it. Again, it's really easy to dodge as well.

Or isn't using a glass build? It doesn't matter how good you are at warrior. You can't just add stats to make something do more damage. Even if you wanna say I suck at warrior, and that's my problem, I bet you would agree Vaanns is a good warrior. Go watch his videos and see what his attacks hit for. Actually no nevermind, I'll tell you. 5k max on rampage.

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@"GaijinGuy.8476" said:I can understand the issues in PvP as you have to stay in the circle and one team is only 5 players (the aoe cap) but I haven’t really seen it being used a lot in WvW and if it was I didn’t notice any difference it made.Burst Core Warrior and Magebane Tether into Rampage Combo Spellbreakers use this skill in smallscale and it's absurd as it carries more than any skill in the game should.

The planned nerf seems to be too much but if they remove the damage of any hard cc skill in the game (like it seems) it's back in line.

And dear Warrior players: don't forget that in WvW you still have your broken stance uptime granting you 10 seconds of invulnerability unless at least 2 Necros unload all their corrupts on you (which won't happen if you don't suck at the game as you have plenty of mobility).

10 seconds you say? Would that be the double Endure Pain that only negates physical damage and corrupts do nothing or the double Resistance (Which not a lot run that i know of) which 1 is a pulsing Resistance of 1 second and the other than pops resistance once and when it gets rupted, it's gone?Defense Spellbreakers are the most durable build in the zerg. No other spec can rush into the enemy blob and return without a scratch. That's the potential of your defensive option (bubble tank) as a Warrior.

If you want to roam you can run sth. like that and be a serious thread to anyone if you are good at your class:

Both builds can kite like crazy to recover and have a fair amount of sustain. They are already a tough matchup without Rampage. When popping Rampage at the right moment they can faceroll any other build.

Play the two builds above in combination with 2 firebrands and you have a broken roaming combo that deals tons of damage and is almost impossible to kill.

@"Arheundel.6451" said:And so Warriors should run what Elite instead? Bubble is only used in zergs, everything else is useless except Signet of Rage which has it's limits.That's such a dumb argumentation. Something overpowered is justified because other options are only average? Is that how you would balance a game?

Try not to confuse zerging with roaming and Warriors rarely come out without a scratch if people actually focused them properly and/or their Comm doesn't push in to support them retreating for over-extending.

As for "Something overpowered is justified because other options are only average? Is that how you would balance a game?" Try thinking a bit more rather than trying to imply something i wasn't implying especially when it comes to balance because i've said it all along that WvW is the ugly love-child of PvE and sPvP and is near impossible to properly balance.

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@Rakan Buuyon.8576 said:

@God.2708 said:

@God.2708 said:

@God.2708 said:Dash* Rampage Skill 3 has a 2.4 Power mod.

Assume1000 Weapon damage (Lower end of ascended weapon average, ease of calculation), 3500 power (Easy to hit with zerks + full might), and 200% crit damage (Approx what full zerk gives you with no rune bonuses) on 3300 armor target (Full trailblazers or ministrels light armor).

1000
3500
2.4 / 3300 = 2545
2 (crit) = 5090 damage. Throw in scholars bonus(1.05), force bonus(1.05), peak performance(1.2), and warriors sprint (1.03)5090
1.2
1.05
1.05 *1.03 = 6936.

So 7k on a full tank necro with relatively low end numbers. A full infused ascended zerk scholar warrior with max might + BL stacks has 4,486 power, 1155 max possible weapon damage, and 249% crit damage.

1155
4486
2.4 / 3300 = 3768
2.49 = 9,382 damage. With same damage bonuses9,382
1.2
1.05
1.05 * 1.03 = 12,786 damage.

Ouch.

So if we go full glass, we have one skill in our elite that can do half as much as a backstab?

Backstab shares the same 2.4 power mod as rush, so it is the exact same damage. The thief would also have to go full glass, so your attack that hits for 12.7k damage on a full trailblazers necro will likely turn said thief into a fine blood mist. (19.8k damage if you were wondering, one shot them through full marauders even)

That's weird, cause my backstabs hit for 12k in not a glass build. Biggest one was 25k as DE glass build. The best rush I've done is like 10k on a Lord.

But that's not the point. Every class has access to something that does 10k+, just most of these things aren't an elite on a long cool down.

For example, without going full glass, using actually a pretty good sustain build, staff 5 on thief hits 15k+, and that's spamable and multiple target.

Your average warrior running rampage isn't going to break 5k with any attack. Yeah that's not awful damage, and it does hard CC, but it's an elite that also removes all your utilities. The attacks are super telegraphed and easy to dodge. Just earlier today I was in a 1v2 against two warriors who used it at the same time, and out of both of them, they only managed to land one hit on me.

It's just not the "I win" button people make it out to be. Maybe against glass builds that don't know what's going on, but they are easy to kill no matter what elite you have. There's a reason people only take it while roaming, and even then not everyone does. It's just not this super powerful thing.

I mean. You're being disingenuous here with the argument. Rush is on a 6s CD and is a 1.2k range dash that can be followed up by several different 1.2-2.0 power mod attacks on a similarly low CD that also have stuns, knockbacks, etc attached. People using it badly is not an example of how weak it is, nor are extreme examples of it performing really well an example of how strong it is. It does precisely what it is suppose to, locks down and destroys a player that has used all their dodges and/or stunbreaks. If you use it to soon the enemy can negate it very easily.

I will say any warrior hitting sub 5k with rampage simply doesn't know how to play. It hits for 5-7k damage on crits with a very VERY middling damage set against near max armor targets as I pointed out above.

You are aware rush is tied to rampage right? You get a max of two activations of it. Again, it's really easy to dodge as well.

Or isn't using a glass build? It doesn't matter how good you are at warrior. You can't just add stats to make something do more damage. Even if you wanna say I suck at warrior, and that's my problem, I bet you would agree Vaanns is a good warrior. Go watch his videos and see what his attacks hit for. Actually no nevermind, I'll tell you. 5k max on rampage.

I play warrior in PvP quite frequently. Max stacks of might with a destroyer amulet with a meta build nets me a clean 5-7k hits in rampage with occasional 9k hits from skill 5 and skill 3, in a game mode with intentionally lower stats (PvP Amulets give ~ level 78 exotic stats). Vaanns rarely uses rampage. Vaanns also frequently hits for 8k+ with a variety of skills including axe burst, GS3, arcing slice, and breaching strike. To say nothing of when they play berserker and drop 20k arc dividers.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue though. I stated I don't think rampage was overpowered, just good at what it does. The number crunching was for the people saying rampage never hits for 9k. It pretty easily does with very little investment or effort, against players without protection and other damage reduction up.

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@Rakan Buuyon.8576 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Rampage dps is broken and needs toned down but their planned damage coefficient decrease is far to much. Also the fact it locks you out of any clears can have u downed in seconds considering how out of hand condi's are these days. I was in rampage cleaving a ranger down full hp and a burn guard put so many stacks of burns on me so fast that I was down in seconds even with all of rampages damage reduction meaning very little. These days u are literally on fire 80% of ur match constantly clearing burns and other condi's to just have them reapplied and rampage locks u out of any clears meaning death pretty fast.

If you werent using rsmpage, would you have an issue against burn fb? No, you wouldnt. God forbid warr has a tiny window of vulnerability among all the stances, wepswaps, mobility, invulns.

Lol oh a good fb definitely still poses a challenge but yes rampage being broken dps wise tilts the fight into the warriors favor but gutting rampage to being not really worth popping isnt better as were trying to balance the skills to still be worth using and effective while not providing a unfair advantage right? Also I dont get this warrior imune to condi bs. I run shake it off a 2x ammo skill and a trait that drops condi on weapon swap which is decent but when I'm in a fight I'm swapping weapons based on cd's and the skills I need making the clear kinds unreliable but decent. Warriors arnt weak to condi's but other classes have their multiple clear options to, warrior isnt much of a outlier here. I'd say all classes are weak to condi's at the moment because condi's in general are tuned to high. Condis right now on classes like fire weavers,fb, thieves etc can out put condis with dots where each tick hits like a burst and that's silly.

Naw. Thats plain wrong. When warr skills hit you for 9k on full tank gear INSTADMG, with CC chains and what not, condi isnt really the issue, as it can be cleansed (reapplication is an issue ofc, and I can think of 2 classes that need tuning there- condi DD and mirage/mesmer). Main fb condi is burn, cover condies are not so many like a mesmer's or necro's. And - the more you know! - warr has this thing called resistance, which a fb cant possibly remove. Resistance offers full immunity against condies. That means that fb will... Burn his cds on you, you will have 25 stacks of burning, pop resistance, pewpew fb, cleanse if too much gets built up, win. Mesmers and necs can remove resistance. Apart from core nec full trailblazer roam build, nec is warr fodder. I never said "nerf rampage" btw. Thanks for your input.

Edit: among same skilled players, warr should not ever lose to a burn fb.

Warriors don't hit full tank for 9k. I'm lucky to hit a glass build for 9k with a burst skill.

There's lots of hyperbole when it comes to warriors. We have crazy sustain when we build for it, but it's very rare for a warrior to do more than 3k damage with about any skill. Unless they build for it, which makes them way way easier to kill.

I am not sure what stats you run, but any warr who runs marauder/zerk combo with damage runes (the most common stats) does absurd amounts of damage to tank builds with a plethora of skills. "I am lucky to hit a glass build with 9k on a burst skill", which is untrue. 3k damage is from autoattacking alone (edit: 3k from aa on a tank build).

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@Fish.2769 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:That elite is broken behind anything I ever seen,
it was an extremely bad balance decision
, it should have been deleted in all gamemodes..a long time ago and this time limiting the nerfs to pvp mode only will be surely a grave mistake, the elite is overstacked with benefits and seemingly not cons

And so Warriors should run what Elite instead? Bubble is only used in zergs, everything else is useless except Signet of Rage which has it's limits.

You run a no busted elite like the rest

So they need to make Rampage as useless as every other Elite on Warrior so it's in-line with every other specs Elite in the game...? Then i want to be able to have Warrior Stealth because Thieves, Mesmers, Rangers and Engineers have it and it's not fair we don't!

Edited: I forgot Rangers and Engis have stealth...

Sure, but scale armor and HP down to match thieves and mesmers as well :trollface:

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