Making Staff playable in WvW.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Staff

Auto Attack

• Make it useable without a target.
• Increase Healing Pulses from 3 to 4.
• Let it target allied players.

Astral Wsip

• Add Groundtargeting.
• Increase Radius to 240.
• Reduce Cooldown to 6 seconds.
• Now removes 1 Condition per second.

Ancentral Grace

• Disconnect selfheal from allied heal.
• Selfheal stays the same.
• Increase allied healing by 25%.
• Reduce Cooldown to 12 seconds
• Remove protection.
• Remove recharge time reducing.

Vine Surge

• Reduced Cooldown to 12 seconds.
• Increase Travelspeed by 20%.
• Add a 5 seconds cripple.
• Add 5 Seconds of Regeneration.

Sublime Conversion

• Reduce Cooldown to 18 seconds.
• Increase duration to 7 seconds.
• Increase overall size by 50%.
• Increase Healing by 150%.

With all that, it would still be a medicore weapon for WvW Zerging but atleast useable.

[scerevisiae.1972]

I think it's mostly fine as is, the only change i'd like to see is #4 should do decent amount more damage in a straight line.Other minor complaint would be that it's next to useless for a condi build, the #2 ought to poison enemies to travels though, and the #4 ought to add a few stacks of bleeding.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

They need a bit of condition damage on it like some burning on the auto-attack, healing is most often paired with condi so I'm confused at why they made it purely physical. I guess because of the Sun Spirit, but, what support build actually runs that?

Right now it does zero damage unless you run full Clerics or Magi, which both waste too many defensive points, even for WvW.

[Infusion.7149]

It still wouldn't be worth bringing currently because any decent squad running stealth gyro (or veils) doesn't want your pet to show everyone's location. That's why any WvW related changes must focus on soulbeast stances which are unique effects and spirits must not be blown up by AoEs (same problem as post-nerf damage chronos).

There are few reasons to run druid over aura tempest (look at the heals on staff auto + soothing mist) or medkit scrapper which synergizes with boons from heralds and firebrands.

Also nobody runs Magi's unless on a budget or PvE-ing because Minstrel's gives boon duration while Magi doesn't give boon duration or toughness. 4 stat items are usually better because the stat totals are higher, unlike Celestial the maximums are within margin of 3 stat items. For example full Marauder is about 85% of Berserker's (+1172 instead of +1382 Power for full set , 633 ferocity instead of 960 means ~22% less critical) which is why half marauder (usually armor & weapon as the legendaries are easier to come by than trinkets) is a decent option to bring glass eles and thieves to ~15K health.

The condition most suitable for staff is bleeding and/or poison (not on auto): I doubt a high damage condition such as burning would be given to the ranger's staff.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Infusion.7149 said:It still wouldn't be worth bringing currently because any decent squad running stealth gyro (or veils) doesn't want your pet to show everyone's location. That's why any WvW related changes must focus on soulbeast stances which are unique effects and spirits must not be blown up by AoEs (same problem as post-nerf damage chronos).

There are few reasons to run druid over aura tempest (look at the heals on staff auto + soothing mist) or medkit scrapper which synergizes with boons from heralds and firebrands.

Also nobody runs Magi's unless on a budget or PvE-ing because Minstrel's gives boon duration while Magi doesn't give boon duration or toughness. 4 stat items are usually better because the stat totals are higher, unlike Celestial the maximums are within margin of 3 stat items. For example full Marauder is about 85% of Berserker's (+1172 instead of +1382 Power for full set , 633 ferocity instead of 960 means ~22% less critical) which is why half marauder (usually armor & weapon as the legendaries are easier to come by than trinkets) is a decent option to bring glass eles and thieves to ~15K health.

The condition most suitable for staff is bleeding and/or poison (not on auto): I doubt a high damage condition such as burning would be given to the ranger's staff.

Minstrel's is one of the most suboptimal gearsets in the game. Not only does it massively waste points in defense, it also doesn't have max Healing Power (just highish) and doesn't have any damage whatsoever; the set is good for zerging and that's about it.

No roamer would be caught wearing it, It reminds me of the PVT meta for heavies from like, 2016.

[Infusion.7149]

Why are you mentioning roaming with cleric or magi then? That only has precision. If you're talking about roaming, any form of power druid really isn't great compared to soulbeast due to loss of damage bonuses.

Minstrel's is run for the boon duration and toughness , otherwise people would be running nomad's as in heal balls. Due to the way healing power scales the loss isn't as major as you make it out to be: every skill or trait has a base amount and then a portion that scales with healing power. If you're roaming with no other people you shouldn't be running a purely healing build regardless : at best a condi build with healing power tacked on since expertise isn't ideal in a PvP environment and roaming doesn't have the amount of cleanses as squads do. Conditions and healing synergize better since you'd need to stay alive to actually get the condition damage to kick in.

Anyway, solely changing staff wouldn't do much for roaming either: it'd be a situation similar to PvP where soulbeast is simply a better option. You can merge with owl to get spike heals ; the damage on soulbeast is far higher due to beastmastery line as well as merging with ferocious or deadly pets.

The common condi weapons such as axe+torch or shortbow (not counting dagger as it is for soulbeast) are hard countered by projectile hate and condition-to-boon conversion in any squad scenario. You're better off with a thief if you want to use shortbow.

The main way druid could be stronger in WvW , in my opinion, is if astral force didn't require as much healing or damage to allow going into Celestial Avatar. Maybe a bonus AF when the target has no boons (similar to spellbreaker where thematically it trends towards removal of both conditions and boons). This way it would act more like tomes or shroud. Due to the pet and projectile issues druid still wouldn't be picked in squads , however.

The best scenario for rangers in squads is soulbeast on a power weapon such as Greatsword , with stances (which can't be stripped). For that you'd need some form of toughness and/or vitality to deal with revenant hammers and elementalists' meteor showers let alone spellbreaker boonrips. It would also warrant actually being in a squad for stability.

[Lazze.9870]

@scerevisiae.1972 said:I think it's mostly fine as is, the only change i'd like to see is #4 should do decent amount more damage in a straight line.

It's not. But the fact that you want condi applications for it shows what you think about it.

The staff is the only weapon ranger has that is worth a damn for support, and it should be loaded with it. No random condi ticks that will only push it further into the mediocrity of doing several things, but not excelling in anything.

[Lazze.9870]

@Infusion.7149 said:The best scenario for rangers in squads is soulbeast on a power weapon such as Greatsword , with stances (which can't be stripped). For that you'd need some form of toughness and/or vitality to deal with revenant hammers and elementalists' meteor showers let alone spellbreaker boonrips. It would also warrant actually being in a squad for stability.

If we're talking about best possible scenario, the better scenario would be a druid rework that includes a complete removal the pet (permanently merged) while giving it a sip of of party stability.

A SB build with shared stances, spotter - which you can easily make room for - and GS with bow or Axe/Sword - Axe/Warhorn, even if those shorter durations for allies were buffed, is still outmatched. Might be more acceptable and not shunned from squads, but still outmatched. Probably the more likely scenario, though.

[Infusion.7149]

Axe and warhorn aren't relevant in any group scenario because axe is projectile (auto only cleaves 2 too ; retaliation is a nightmare due to multi-hitting) and warhorn fury+might+swiftness doesn't keep pace with heralds.If druid astral force was front-loaded (i.e. you don't need to build it up initially) to deal with an engage it would be much more viable for druids if the pet issue is rectified.That's why I think the most likely scenario is a GS soulbeast with stances.

In your hypothetical "permanently merged" druid, if it needed to build astral force it cannot cope with any need for instantaneous heals other than the heals on staff. 1.5% charge per heal and 0.75% per damage is too slow.Staff 2's heal coefficient is merely 0.1 , staff 3 has 1.0 coefficient (feels like it's balanced around the 7% power to healing power from Instinctive Reaction in Nature Magic). That's what sets it apart from firebrand (0.25 coefficient on staff 2 , let alone tomes) or medkit scrapper. The healing on auto is weaker than on revenant melee staff and staff (water) 1 on ele scales at 0.25 ; staff 3 at a rate of 2.0. Maybe there could be a bonus for healing someone not affected by protection/resistance boons/stability (the inverse of scrapper) which excels against warrior bubbles or boonstrips. The suggestion for staff 3 (ancestral grace) increase by 25% would still have it lagging behind staff 3 on eles ; having it move to target area means it is a liability when healing melee groups.

Mesmers have party stability as well (Mantra of Stability) but they aren't run in bulk because the invis (mass invis hits only 10 people ; veil has an obvious tell and lasts a shorter period) and condi cleanses from scrappers is much stronger.

[Lazze.9870]

@"Infusion.7149" said:Axe and warhorn aren't relevant in any group scenario because axe is projectile (auto only cleaves 2 too ; retaliation is a nightmare due to multi-hitting) and warhorn fury+might+swiftness doesn't keep pace with heralds.If druid astral force was front-loaded (i.e. you don't need to build it up initially) to deal with an engage it would be much more viable for druids if the pet issue is rectified.That's why I think the most likely scenario is a GS soulbeast with stances.

I literally said SB with stances, spotter and GS. Like everyone else has since Soulbeast was first previewed. Axes and warhorn were meant as potentially second hand weapons. You're gonna run the axe trait from beastmastery for those extra stats and lack of better options for a permanently merged Soulbeast anyway. The warhorn is also a blast finisher for water and smoke fields. In smaller scale squads, having those weapons on swap will have an impact. In larger scale, much less so. In that case you might want the bow on swap instead for its range to help take down sieges and whatnot.

My "hypthetical permantly merged druid" involves more than just getting rid of the pet to focus on making it all about support. It would involve changes to staff, celestial avatar, traits and glyphs aswell. Druid needs stability. Not just for the squad, nor did I imply that alone will give it a squad spot, but for itself. The only source it currently has is Strength of the Pack. Not a skill you'd want to run in a support focused build unless you're forced to, which druid pretty much is today. The healing coefficients are fine, what matter is the fact that Druid has burst heals on a double locked cooldown (astral force and conventional) and a staff that is clunky to use, as opposed to Scrapper's endless top off healing with their medkit 1 spam. These things need to be changed.

You used the words "best scenario". Best scenario would be a rework to druid, whether that is likely or not. SB, even with good stance sharing, is still outmatched.

[scerevisiae.1972]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@scerevisiae.1972 said:I think it's mostly fine as is, the only change i'd like to see is #4 should do decent amount more damage in a straight line.

It's not. But the fact that you want condi applications for it shows what you think about it.

The staff is the only weapon ranger has that is worth a kitten for support, and it should be loaded with it. No random condi ticks that will only push it further into the mediocrity of doing several things, but not excelling in anything.

staff is fine. druid in general has a strong condi/healing flavour in traits and glyphs, yet lacks condi application on the weapon. it's thematically appropriate.

staff is already a great support weapon. i think the #1 could be improved slightly, eg: have it pierce through targets to its max range, or chain to 1-2 extra targets, but that's about it.

summary:

• 4 skill applies 3 stacks of bleeding to targets hit

• 2 applies 1 stack of poison to each enemy it passes through, 3 stacks to initial target

• 1 skill chains to 2 additional targets, prefering allied targets over enemy targets, healing/damaging as appropriate.

the first thing i would change about druid though is to make verdant etching 240 radius not 180. or make the condi clease radius 240 and the heal radius 600.