All I Want For Wintersday Is D/P Brought Back

[omgdracula.6345]

Please Anet.

D/P is a build I have always been fond of for years, and all I really want is for it to be brought back into viability. 900 range on swipe would do it. Please bring back the fun skillful build that is D/P so thief isn't a spam 2 button class.

[Alatar.7364]

@omgdracula.6345 said:Please Anet.

D/P is a build I have always been fond of for years, and all I really want is for it to be brought back into viability. 900 range on swipe would do it. Please bring back the fun skillful build that is D/P so thief isn't a spam 2 button class.

Core D/P is actually viable in very same way old DrD D/P was, without loss of dmg or mobility compared to DrD.(technically speaking in regard to build x build comparison, you have to keep in mind that Meta is also different and as such range of Swipe doesn't play a role in match environment, what plays a role is the number of instances/scenarios in which D/P can land its burst or do stealth decap which is not as affected by the build itself but rather by enemy builds, eg: invuls, block spam, blind spam, long reveals, etc. In short: Yes, Swipe makes it more difficult, but it doesn't make any difference what range you attack from when your target is randomly farting negating effects, making Swipe 900 would not change D/P viability in current Meta)

[omgdracula.6345]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:Please Anet.

D/P is a build I have always been fond of for years, and all I really want is for it to be brought back into viability. 900 range on swipe would do it. Please bring back the fun skillful build that is D/P so thief isn't a spam 2 button class.

Core D/P is actually viable in very same way old DrD D/P was, without loss of dmg or mobility compared to DrD.

(technically speaking in regard to build x build comparison, you have to keep in mind that Meta is also different and as such range of Swipe doesn't play a role in match environment, what plays a role is the number of instances/scenarios in which D/P can land its burst or do stealth decap which is not as affected by the build itself but rather by enemy builds, eg: invuls, block spam, blind spam, long reveals, etc. In short: Yes, Swipe makes it more difficult, but it doesn't make any difference what range you attack from when your target is randomly farting negating effects, making Swipe 900 would not change D/P viability in current Meta)

I guess I am fond of DD D/P vs Core. But if Core is viable I would more than likely try the build out if you have one. I also miss short hopping heartseeker. Good ol days.

[Zexanima.7851]

I mean it may not be the most comfortable build but it's playable. I do agree with swipe though. The 600 range really sucks but I can't tell you how many warrior's days I've ruined with the unblockable so I'm okay with it. I would like anything to take the place of S/D to be honest though.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I've liked sa/trickery/cs d/p lately with trickery trait and withdrawl have 3 sec invis and evade with 1 condo removed every 14 seconds,remove condi's every 3 secs when in stealth and with smoke screen and heart seeker u can get way more stealth than using black powder which eats ur ini pretty fast and smoke screen only 24 sec cd. Cs provides good dps and hidden thief makes stealth backstab take a decent chunk. Between withdrawal every 14 sec's,smoke screen/heart seeker and bp/heart seeker I find I can escape most fights or situations I need to and CS provides somewhat good dps considering daggers base weak dps(other than bs).Wanted to try swapping DD for trickery and using deception trait to lower smoke screen,shadowstep further while maybe swapping to HIS for heal and condi remove on evade with unhindered combatant dodge but afraid loss of ini will handicap everything to much.I've had multiple thieves asking wtf build I'm running cuz I'm basically perma invisible most times. Pop a backstab and few autos and if I take heat I use withdrawl and stack stealth till I can try again lol. Obviously using sb to decap as well. Doesn't do enough burst in wvw on most classes though as the sustain on alot of classes there is to high lol the just turn on u and u run,they heal up and u repeat basically until u screw up and the 2 or 3 shot u. If their glassy thief,mesmer or ele u can almost one shot them tho.

[omgdracula.6345]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I've liked sa/trickery/cs d/p lately with trickery trait and withdrawl have 3 sec invis and evade with 1 condo removed every 14 seconds,remove condi's every 3 secs when in stealth and with smoke screen and heart seeker u can get way more stealth than using black powder which eats ur ini pretty fast and smoke screen only 24 sec cd. Cs provides good dps and hidden thief makes stealth backstab take a decent chunk. Between withdrawal every 14 sec's,smoke screen/heart seeker and bp/heart seeker I find I can escape most fights or situations I need to and CS provides somewhat good dps considering daggers base weak dps(other than bs).Wanted to try swapping DD for trickery and using deception trait to lower smoke screen,shadowstep further while maybe swapping to HIS for heal and condi remove on evade with unhindered combatant dodge but afraid loss of ini will handicap everything to much.I've had multiple thieves asking kitten build I'm running cuz I'm basically perma invisible most times. Pop a backstab and few autos and if I take heat I use withdrawl and stack stealth till I can try again lol. Obviously using sb to decap as well. Doesn't do enough burst in wvw on most classes though as the sustain on alot of classes there is to high lol the just turn on u and u run,they heal up and u repeat basically until u screw up and the 2 or 3 shot u. If their glassy thief,mesmer or ele u can almost one shot them tho.

Would you mind giving which traits you take in each line?

[Psycoprophet.8107]

SA 2-2-2Trickery 2-2-2CS 3-2-2Scholar/marauder

I tried boon steal/fear SA trait cuz loss of bountiful theft boon rip but fear makes u have chase or p4 back to opponent to get some auto's off so I find it annoying for myself.Trick trait makes withdrawal a great get out of jail skill cuz SA minor giving stealth on heal on a 14 sec cd and removes a condition in combination with SA removing one every 3 seconds so don't need a cleanse utility skill. U can jump thru smoke feilds like 7 times to stack alot of stealth and SC is only 24 sec cd. So u can use it most the time instead of black powder which is a inferior smoke feild anyway as its cast time tho lower still sucks compared to how it used to be and SC pulses blindness at a quick rate for more pulses. Cs trait 2 means quickness and swiftness on alot of ur auto attack spicks after backstab which is nice cuz dagger autos are weak even with cs line lol. Hidden thief guarantees decent back stab damage and CS middle trait is ok at best, tried many times comparing it with vulnerability and fury trait above it and found extra forocity slightly better on back stabs. Also use assassin sig and always pop before backstab. Shadow step and daggerstorm. Sometimes spawning ur 4 thief friends from stealth than backstabbing is fun to lol

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I really want to utilize DD in dp build, use HIS,escapist fortitude and unhindered for cleanses that way I can roll SA 3-2-2.Swipe is now 600 range but lower base cd,HIS is 7 sec stealth with condi removal but 26 sec cd and no roll back evade with longer cast time.Stealth now on steal and cd on all utility's are shorter-if u choose thief party elite lol and SC cd is now even shorter.Lose 3 ini- could be deal breaker5% dps for each endurance bar gone cuz pulmonary impact seems weak after its nerf a while back.If it wasn't for the ini loss with prepardness it be prob viable. Then again if ur using HS in Smoke scree the majority of the time than ini might be ok as its blinding powder that is costly.I put one boon RIP on weapons with a damage or utility sigil.

[omgdracula.6345]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I really want to utilize DD in dp build, use HIS,escapist absolution and unhindered for cleanses that way I can roll SA 3-2-2.Swipe is now 600 range but lower base cd,HIS is 7 sec stealth with condi removal but 26 sec cd and no roll back evade with longer cast time.Stealth now on steal and cd on all utility's are shorter-if u choose thief party elite lol and SC cd is now even shorter.Lose 3 ini- could be deal breaker5% dps for each endurance bar gone cuz pulmonary impact seems weak after its nerf a while back.If it wasn't for the ini loss with prepardness it be prob viable. Then again if ur using HS in Smoke scree the majority of the time than ini might be ok as its blinding powder that is costly.I put one boon RIP on weapons with a damage or utility sigil.

Thanks for both posts! True credit to team!

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Tried few games without trickery, total garbage for my playstyle. Even with barely using black powder ini being 12 is a handicap. Just my opinion

[Alatar.7364]

@omgdracula.6345 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:Please Anet.

D/P is a build I have always been fond of for years, and all I really want is for it to be brought back into viability. 900 range on swipe would do it. Please bring back the fun skillful build that is D/P so thief isn't a spam 2 button class.

Core D/P is actually viable in very same way old DrD D/P was, without loss of dmg or mobility compared to DrD.

(technically speaking in regard to build x build comparison, you have to keep in mind that Meta is also different and as such range of Swipe doesn't play a role in match environment, what plays a role is the number of instances/scenarios in which D/P can land its burst or do stealth decap which is not as affected by the build itself but rather by enemy builds, eg: invuls, block spam, blind spam, long reveals, etc. In short: Yes, Swipe makes it more difficult, but it doesn't make any difference what range you attack from when your target is randomly farting negating effects, making Swipe 900 would not change D/P viability in current Meta)

I guess I am fond of DD D/P vs Core. But if Core is viable I would more than likely try the build out if you have one. I also miss short hopping heartseeker. Good ol days.

1) First Build

2) Second Build

For the Second build you can use Assassin's Signet instead of Signet of Agility and Prepare Shadow Portal over Blinding Powder, basically the same Utillity set as for the First build. Especially Assassin's Signet is very good to swap to since you will get ... just enough Condi Clense from Stealth.Also for the Second Build you can take Rending Shade over Shadow's Rejuvenation however it can get quite bothersome if enemy gets Feared and you'll need to chase it, especially if you miss Steal and thus won't have Swiftness.

First Build can not do without Basilisk Venom, don't bother taking Dagger Storm over it. Second Build can take Dagger Storm for about the same viability, but it depends on the scenario.

Use your Heal outside combat, that's why the Rune of the Centaur is there, trust me you will have extremely hard time if you don't take this Rune or won't use the Heal for swiftness. You need to use it only when you go decap, no need to use it in combat just to stick to target it will either come naturally or Shadow Shot will take care of the sticking to target, however in case of the First build your target won't be alive longer than 1 or 2 seconds if you hit the burst so it won't even come to that, so just use Heal for Swiftness between nodes/decaps.

3) Third Build

Well, then there's the Third Build if you insisted on playing DrD D/P.Blinding Powder can be swapped for Prepare Shadow Portal. If you take Prepare Shadow Portal over Blinding Powder then also swap to Executioner instead of Improvisation.Didn't test this build too much though.

[omgdracula.6345]

@Alatar.7364 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@omgdracula.6345 said:Please Anet.

D/P is a build I have always been fond of for years, and all I really want is for it to be brought back into viability. 900 range on swipe would do it. Please bring back the fun skillful build that is D/P so thief isn't a spam 2 button class.

Core D/P is actually viable in very same way old DrD D/P was, without loss of dmg or mobility compared to DrD.

(technically speaking in regard to build x build comparison, you have to keep in mind that Meta is also different and as such range of Swipe doesn't play a role in match environment, what plays a role is the number of instances/scenarios in which D/P can land its burst or do stealth decap which is not as affected by the build itself but rather by enemy builds, eg: invuls, block spam, blind spam, long reveals, etc. In short: Yes, Swipe makes it more difficult, but it doesn't make any difference what range you attack from when your target is randomly farting negating effects, making Swipe 900 would not change D/P viability in current Meta)

I guess I am fond of DD D/P vs Core. But if Core is viable I would more than likely try the build out if you have one. I also miss short hopping heartseeker. Good ol days.

1)

First Build

2)

Second Build

For the Second build you can use Assassin's Signet instead of Signet of Agility and Prepare Shadow Portal over Blinding Powder, basically the same Utillity set as for the First build. Especially Assassin's Signet is very good to swap to since you will get ...

just enough

Condi Clense from Stealth.Also for the Second Build you can take Rending Shade over Shadow's Rejuvenation however it can get quite bothersome if enemy gets Feared and you'll need to chase it, especially if you miss Steal and thus won't have Swiftness.

First Build can not do without Basilisk Venom, don't bother taking Dagger Storm over it. Second Build can take Dagger Storm for about the same viability, but it depends on the scenario.

Use your Heal outside combat, that's why the Rune of the Centaur is there, trust me you will have extremely hard time if you don't take this Rune or won't use the Heal for swiftness. You need to use it only when you go decap, no need to use it in combat just to stick to target it will either come naturally or Shadow Shot will take care of the sticking to target, however in case of the First build your target won't be alive longer than 1 or 2 seconds if you hit the burst so it won't even come to that, so just use Heal for Swiftness between nodes/decaps.

3)

Third Build

Well, then there's the Third Build if you insisted on playing DrD D/P.Blinding Powder can be swapped for Prepare Shadow Portal. If you take Prepare Shadow Portal over Blinding Powder then also swap to Executioner instead of Improvisation.Didn't test this build too much though.

Thanks a ton!

[LadyKitty.6120]

Not sure if you're talking about it competitive or PVE-wise, but it at least has a decent potential as power dps for raids atm (only 800 dps below dagger/dagger at Kitty's skill level).

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

I dont mind the 600 swipe range tbh, I mean it sure sucks a lot but it isn't game breaking, though I dont play high end so I cant say how had it is there.

For me its pi and the AA nerf that's made d/p dead, the amount of protection flying around today .makes aa even worst so the only thing d/p has is back stab with assassins signet but then you may as well go de for that.

[Alatar.7364]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

For me its pi and the AA nerf that's made d/p dead, the amount of protection flying around today .makes aa even worst so the only thing d/p has is back stab with assassins signet but then you may as well go de for that.

Exactly, Dagger AA dmg was nerfed at the same time when well-known PoF specs were INCREDIBLY power-crept (powercrept so hard that some are still extreme meta today) while farting around stupid boons with stupid durations all having stupid sustain. It was one of the biggest moments of complete confusion I've ever had, even to this day I still can not wrap my head around who though it was a good idea to nerf already mediocre Thief Dagger dmg when there were immortal supports, perma-nuking perma barrier Scourges, impossibly toxic Mirages and indestructible Spellbreakers and Holos.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I dont mind the 600 swipe range tbh, I mean it sure sucks a lot but it isn't game breaking, though I dont play high end so I cant say how had it is there.

For me its pi and the AA nerf that's made d/p dead, the amount of protection flying around today .makes aa even worst so the only thing d/p has is back stab with assassins signet but then you may as well go de for that.

The AA,pi and BP cast time nerfs were a huge fail by the devs. They literally nerfed a build for 0 reason which I can only assume was put on their radar by baseless nerf cries and being the devs they were were weren't able to distinguish real OP builds to actually focus on. The also made the build clunky to use due to BP cast time nerf which is the opposite ud think a dev would strive for, not surprising these devs found making a build clunkier to play as a adequate outcome though lol.The fact certain things havent been reverted not only regarding dp thief changes but a lot of other obvious failed changes and not just meaning thief changes says a lot.

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

Pls bnet, revert AA, PI, BP, Swipe, Lead A , omg dp got hit so hard in such a short time ...

[Sindrener.1592]

Theres too many things that needs revert if dp is gonna be able to compete with sd/de/sp builds imo.

Lead attacks, pi, swipe range. And tbh just for the feel revert blinding powder

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@bluri.2653 said:Theres too many things that needs revert if dp is gonna be able to compete with sd/de/sp builds imo.

Lead attacks, pi, swipe range. And tbh just for the feel revert blinding powder

Yeah and with all your and other long time high level thief players feedback which should be valued will be ignored and down the rd more off base changes will occur and feedback like this ignored. These are one of the many reason the pvp in this game has gone so downhill. The fact the devs don't realize this leaves little hope for future of the mode.Least that's how I see it but in the end just a game so who cares amiright lol.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

The devs in this game are so ridiculously bad at balancing I just had a handful of matches using critical strikes with hidden killer and scholars/mauraders etc and used shadow arts and continually stealth'd and backstabbed players and with all that set up was getting 5500-6000 tops than with trickery trait that gives quickness after hitting from back or side I'd follow up with a ton of quick autos and it was useless like the devs on most classes as they just laugh and shrug off the damage and constantly reheal near full anytime their low if they even have to which a lot of cases they don't lol. There is absolutely zero excuse for d/p to be as pathetic damage wise as it is in this version of the game. I stealth back stabbed and got off more hits to players than I can count and I might as well had a toothpick. Yeah I killed a lot of players as well but was cuz they were very bad players lol. This game is crazy levels bad balance wise and the shit que's cuz the pathetic population(for good reason isn't worth the wait). I'm gonna get forum banned for this which is completely fine lol but needed to be said. The balance crew and devs need to wake up or or they might as well not waste their time and go somewhere else.

[omgdracula.6345]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:The devs in this game are so ridiculously bad at balancing I just had a handful of matches using critical strikes with hidden killer and scholars/mauraders etc and used shadow arts and continually stealth'd and backstabbed players and with all that set up was getting 5500-6000 tops than with trickery trait that gives quickness after hitting from back or side I'd follow up with a ton of quick autos and it was useless like the devs on most classes as they just laugh and shrug off the damage and constantly reheal near full anytime their low if they even have to which a lot of cases they don't lol. There is absolutely zero excuse for d/p to be as pathetic damage wise as it is in this version of the game. I stealth back stabbed and got off more hits to players than I can count and I might as well had a toothpick. Yeah I killed a lot of players as well but was cuz they were very bad players lol. This game is crazy levels bad balance wise and the kitten que's cuz the pathetic population(for good reason isn't worth the wait). I'm gonna get forum banned for this which is completely fine lol but needed to be said. The balance crew and devs need to wake up or or they might as well not waste their time and go somewhere else.

I mean I don't get why examples are not taken from other games. Ubisoft for BOTH Division 1 and 2 brought in their top players both skill wise and completion wise to help balance the game etc.

[Axl.8924]

I saw someone on SPVP forum asking for nerf to AA and other abilities by increasing initiative cost LOL

People still continue to cry for irrational nerfs.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Axl.8924 said:I saw someone on SPVP forum asking for nerf to AA and other abilities by increasing initiative cost LOL

People still continue to cry for irrational nerfs.

They always will due to a biased dislike for any class they don't play and find annoying to fight. Its anet balance team to kno what's real feedback and what's biased nonsense and this applies to other classes to and they have done a poor job of it. They allow the community to warp the thief class into a non assassin class due to whines in the form of feedback.A assassin class is meant to hit hard,fast and get out as sticking around would mean death but u gotta be able to viable kill something when going in fast than leaving fast or what's the point? And if u can't ur not a assassin class but if u can ur rightfully anoying the opponent by using assassin type skills to kill them resulting in salt. Imagine a assassin class that was not annoying to fight lol.

[Zacchary.6183]

Gonna be honest here, I am glad it's nerfed to the ground. It's a one-trick-pony that's been "meta" for too long.

[Sindrener.1592]

@"Zacchary.6183" said:Gonna be honest here, I am glad it's nerfed to the ground. It's a one-trick-pony that's been "meta" for too long.

Dp most skillfull specc of thief but ok lad