Balance patch 3rd of December

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@XECOR.2814 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:80 comes from taking 200-120 (the comparison between the new buff and the old)

So 80 times 20 seconds is an additional 1600 health (over 20 seconds)

@Sigmoid.7082 @XECOR.2814

Yeah we will see how good or "bad" it is when its live lol.

I just think it’s very menial...non impactful change. It’ll still be the same ol’ unholy sanctuary that I like, it just hasn’t changed by much.

[Nimon.7840]

@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:Overall it’s a slight slight nerf for unholy sanctuary. 1% in competitive is 200 health on 20k health target... which is basically the same as it is now except it doesn’t scale with healing power anymore. For pve it’ll be nice but it’s still very low impact change.

Terrifying decent might be good but I bet they will give it an ICD. So mehhh

If you look up the wiki for hard control effects, there can't be an icd on this trait. Else it's completely trash as necro doesn't have a lot of "hard" control effects:-fear-knockdown-pull

That's it

[Nimon.7840]

@XECOR.2814 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"LucianDK.8615" said:I'm not forgetting anything, if you play solo minion master (or not), you won't take

unholy sanctuary

whether it's regen is high or not. If you play in group, you just won't take

death magic

.

There is to much bonus into

Death carapace

to even think about taking

unholy sanctuary

if you happen to take DM and you don't want to use minions. This "buff" is a wasted one and the very design of the change is a cancer for the game. No trait should allow sustain to disregard healing power.

It looks good on paper for tanky builds together with traited signet and lf from fear in soul reaping so we can stay maximum time in shroud to allow us to get considerable amount of healing from unholy sanctuary. Fun thing about signet trait is we can also use signet of vampirism with that and it will also help us refill our hp while we hide in shroud. Not to mention the heal skill active itself will recharge faster while we hide in shroud so we can use it much more.

It is fixed that we would need (spite, dm and sr) or (spite, dm and reaper) for such a build.

We can use curses instead of spite but we would lose the traited signet meme.

Still looks like a trash trait for pvp modesYou get much more it of corrupters fervor.Maybe on a complete bunker full trailblaizer core necro this is good, but that's it

[Dadnir.5038]

@Nimon.7840 said:Still looks like a trash trait for pvp modesYou get much more it of corrupters fervor.Maybe on a complete bunker full trailblaizer core necro this is good, but that's it

Yeah you benefit more from the damage reduction (condi and power) of corruptor fervor than a passive regen in shroud even if you can stay in shroud for a long time. I mean, your mobility is not that great in shroud so you'll still take damage so you'd realisticaly benefit more from vampiric signet and damage reduction than from this passive regen and vampiric signet.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@Nimon.7840 said:

Still looks like a trash trait for pvp modes

Agreed. The gutting to 1% is absolutely uncalled for, as pvp modes are the last place necro actually gets to stay in shroud for longer then few seconds.

In PvE however this is a very nice boost to quite a few builds. Solid healing in shroud is nothing to scoff at, especially when it doesn't demand investment into healing power but rather vitality, which doesn't hamper you from getting some expertise (trailblazer) or ferocity (marauder, valkyrie).

Spite + Death Magic builds can become a thing with their growing synergy. Death magic providing extra power, toughness and now strong healing when shrouded, while spite providing the punch, strong healing with signets of suffering + signet of vampirism and locust, and solid LF generation with Signet of Undeath, to stay in shroud longer and capitalize on Unholy Sanctuary even further.

[Nimon.7840]

@ZeftheWicked.3076 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

Still looks like a trash trait for pvp modes

Agreed. The gutting to 1% is absolutely uncalled for, as pvp modes are the last place necro actually gets to stay in shroud for longer then few seconds.

In PvE however this is a very nice boost to quite a few builds. Solid healing in shroud is nothing to scoff at, especially when it doesn't demand investment into healing power but rather vitality, which doesn't hamper you from getting some expertise (trailblazer) or ferocity (marauder, valkyrie).

Spite + Death Magic builds can become a thing with their growing synergy. Death magic providing extra power, toughness and now strong healing when shrouded, while spite providing the punch, strong healing with signets of suffering + signet of vampirism and locust, and solid LF generation with Signet of Undeath, to stay in shroud longer and capitalize on Unholy Sanctuary even further.

Still. This pushes the idea of necro being a noob class and I really don't like this.Cause it's always gonna be the argument: necro isn't allowed more dmg because it's super tanky in open world pve...

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

@Nimon.7840 said:NecromancerIn addition to the updates to the revival skill Signet of Undeath and the falling damage trait Terrifying Descent, we are also revisiting a few issues from previous updates. Unholy Sanctuary is getting an update to help it better compete with the other updates to the Death Magic line, and Manifest Sand Shade is having its recharge reduced in PvE to make it easier to reposition shades.

Terrifying Descent: This trait has been reworked. It has been renamed Insidious Disruption. It now causes control effects to inflict torment on foes.Signet of Undeath: Reduced recharge to 75 seconds in all game modes. Reduced casting time from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds. Reduced the number of allies revived from 3 to 1. Added an additional health cost of 50% of base health to this skill. Increased the passive life force gain by 100%.Sand Swell: Once activated, this skill can no longer be canceled by movement.Plaguelands: Reduced recharge from 120 seconds to 90 seconds in PvE only.Unholy Sanctuary: This trait now heals a percentage of your maximum health each second while in shroud. This value is 2% in PvE and 1% in competitive modes.Manifest Sand Shade: This skill no longer inflicts cripple in all game modes. Reduced ammunition recharge for the untraited version of this skill from 15 seconds to 8 seconds in PvE only.

WvW ChangesNecromancerSand Savant: This trait no longer increases the target cap of shade skills in WvW only.Devouring Darkness (from Lingering Curse): Reduced the number of boons corrupted from 2 to 1 in WvW only.

DO MY EYES DECIEVE ME? A PVE CONDI NECRO BUFF! (its only the elite I know BUT STILL!) ITS A THANKSGIVING MIRACLE!

[Dadnir.5038]

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:DO MY EYES DECIEVE ME? A PVE CONDI NECRO BUFF! (its only the elite I know BUT STILL!) ITS A THANKSGIVING MIRACLE!

Maybe if they add tens of these minute dps increase to the necromancer's condi dps, the condi necromancer might end up breaking throught the 30k dps wall.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

My thoughts on Unholy Santcuary is that, yes, this is undeniably a buff, but still not likely to be a useful one. My personal thoughts is that they should completely remove Soul Comprehension, move Unholy Sanctuary's healing to the Master Minor spot, and rework Unholy Sanctuary's effects (probably still keeping the auto-Shroud, but giving something different besides healing).

[noiwk.2760]

i think that support Scourge is the one actually getting a buff ! with the traits .. F1 skill provide barrier+remove condition and grant mightreduce shand shade (F1) CD from 15 to 8 (base) that means we can cast F1 twice as many times.. not only its a large quality of life for heal Scourge but its also aloooot more barrier we can easily spam f1 for barrier it cost no life force! dont forget sand servent on pve reduce the CD even furter and we get even more reduce cd from reapering trait line ! f1 can now be spammed and lets not forget the change to the passive life forve regen 4% life force per 3 seconds is nice..i think overall as much as i would want better fixes for Scourge and see dps scourge back from the dead.. Heal Scourge got quite a nice buff here

[EremiteAngel.9765]

Would devouring darkness be worth taking for a scepter condi user over the other 2 GM traits now that it has been nerfed further?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Would devouring darkness be worth taking for a scepter condi user over the other 2 GM traits now that it has been nerfed further?

nah. for wvw zerging the dps value of staff autos (lol) is now a better option, and the weakness uptime of weakening shroud has much more benefit in small scale situations.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Would devouring darkness be worth taking for a scepter condi user over the other 2 GM traits now that it has been nerfed further?

In WvW? Probably not. PvE? yes. PvP? You weren't already running Weakening Shroud?

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:DO MY EYES DECIEVE ME? A PVE CONDI NECRO BUFF! (its only the elite I know BUT STILL!) ITS A THANKSGIVING MIRACLE!

Maybe if they add tens of these minute dps increase to the necromancer's condi dps, the condi necromancer might end up breaking throught the 30k dps wall.

that will only take, by my calculations...…. 12 years

[LucianDK.8615]

Got to ask again since I saw no answers, whats the oppinion of the buff to the signet of undeath passive LF regen for PvE Reapers? The gain of 4% is almost 3 times higher than the average gain from Shadow Fiend's Haunt. Before SoU was 2% vs an average of 1.4% from haunt, but which arguably made up for it with burst, a bodyblock and debuffs. But now? Is the passive gain better now?

[Dadnir.5038]

@"LucianDK.8615" said:Got to ask again since I saw no answers, whats the oppinion of the buff to the signet of undeath passive LF regen for PvE Reapers? The gain of 4% is almost 3 times higher than the average gain from Shadow Fiend's Haunt. Before SoU was 2% vs an average of 1.4% from haunt, but which arguably made up for it with burst, a bodyblock and debuffs. But now? Is the passive gain better now?

Probably not, Shadow fiend deal damage while SoU is a totally harmless skill. The reaper is already on the low side when it come to dps potential so losing a source of dps for slightly better LF management is most likely not an option that you want to explore in PvE.

That said, SoU is a nice buff for "support" builds and PvE scourge might benefit from it.

[LucianDK.8615]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"LucianDK.8615" said:Got to ask again since I saw no answers, whats the oppinion of the buff to the signet of undeath passive LF regen for PvE Reapers? The gain of 4% is almost 3 times higher than the average gain from Shadow Fiend's Haunt. Before SoU was 2% vs an average of 1.4% from haunt, but which arguably made up for it with burst, a bodyblock and debuffs. But now? Is the passive gain better now?

Probably not,

Shadow fiend

deal damage while SoU is a totally harmless skill. The reaper is already on the low side when it come to dps potential so losing a source of dps for slightly better LF management is most likely not an option that you want to explore in PvE.

That said, SoU is a nice buff for "support" builds and PvE scourge might benefit from it.

Ah yes, I can see your point there. Thank you.

[RisenHowl.2419]

SoU is going to be solid when traited for sustain builds. 6% per 3s=2% per second. Core necro drains 3% per second and reaper drains 5%, with the signet those drop to 1% & 3% per second adding a lot of sustain to shroud

[LucianDK.8615]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:SoU is going to be solid when traited for sustain builds. 6% per 3s=2% per second. Core necro drains 3% per second and reaper drains 5%, with the signet those drop to 1% & 3% per second adding a lot of sustain to shroud

Might be difficult to give up Close to Death for Signets of Suffering. But in theory you could get in more soul spirals as a Reaper, yes? Plus you gain an additional 90 power for Signet of Spite.

[Nimon.7840]

@"noiwk.2760" said:i think that support Scourge is the one actually getting a buff ! with the traits .. F1 skill provide barrier+remove condition and grant mightreduce shand shade (F1) CD from 15 to 8 (base) that means we can cast F1 twice as many times.. not only its a large quality of life for heal Scourge but its also aloooot more barrier we can easily spam f1 for barrier it cost no life force! dont forget sand servent on pve reduce the CD even furter and we get even more reduce cd from reapering trait line ! f1 can now be spammed and lets not forget the change to the passive life forve regen 4% life force per 3 seconds is nice..i think overall as much as i would want better fixes for Scourge and see dps scourge back from the dead.. Heal Scourge got quite a nice buff here

Still can't keep up 25 might for 10. So it's still "bad".Cause any boss, where you play only one heal in raids, you'll play druid for might generation or renegade for alacrity.And playing only one heal is possible basically on 90% of the bosses.

[noiwk.2760]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"noiwk.2760" said:i think that support Scourge is the one actually getting a buff ! with the traits .. F1 skill provide barrier+remove condition and grant mightreduce shand shade (F1) CD from 15 to 8 (base) that means we can cast F1 twice as many times.. not only its a large quality of life for heal Scourge but its also aloooot more barrier we can easily spam f1 for barrier it cost no life force! dont forget sand servent on pve reduce the CD even furter and we get even more reduce cd from reapering trait line ! f1 can now be spammed and lets not forget the change to the passive life forve regen 4% life force per 3 seconds is nice..i think overall as much as i would want better fixes for Scourge and see dps scourge back from the dead.. Heal Scourge got quite a nice buff here

Still can't keep up 25 might for 10. So it's still "bad".Cause any boss, where you play only one heal in raids, you'll play druid for might generation or renegade for alacrity.And playing only one heal is possible basically on 90% of the bosses.

yeah Scourge sucks Anet hate Scourge

[LucianDK.8615]

Seems Snowcrows actually likes Signet of Undeath for condition scourges.https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/

[Nimon.7840]

@"LucianDK.8615" said:Seems Snowcrows actually likes Signet of Undeath for condition scourges.https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/

Because it generates more lifeforce than minions do

[Dadnir.5038]

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"LucianDK.8615" said:Seems Snowcrows actually likes Signet of Undeath for condition scourges.

https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/

Because it generates more lifeforce than minions do

Well they keep the minion. I think it's more that they estimate that spamming F skills is more effective than using utility skills to deal damage with the scourge. The rotation heavily focus on squeezing dhuumfire potential damage to the max. Granted that the scourge's utility skill's damage potential heavily rely on having boons to corrupt, it's not a bad idea. (Thought the final result isn't transcendent with a dps potential at 29k)

[Nimon.7840]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Nimon.7840 said:

@"LucianDK.8615" said:Seems Snowcrows actually likes Signet of Undeath for condition scourges.

https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/scourge/condition/

Because it generates more lifeforce than minions do

Well they keep the minion. I think it's more that they estimate that spamming F skills is more effective than using utility skills to deal damage with the scourge. The rotation heavily focus on squeezing dhuumfire potential damage to the max. Granted that the scourge's utility skill's damage potential heavily rely on having boons to corrupt, it's not a bad idea. (Thought the final result isn't transcendent with a dps potential at 29k)

No they don't.Before the patch, boneminions were the most effective.And if you need epi, which is the only reason to bring scourge even after these minor buffs, you still need to swap something out.

Best build on single targets dps went fromFull viper with lichrune and boneminions,bip, shadow fiend to:Full viper with Ele rune, bip, shadow fiend, signet