Scourge and Spellbreaker are the true heroes of PoF

[Evil.1580]

@Amityel.5324 said:how to counter cheese builds? By cheese king builds (aka scourge spellbreaker) :)

they will nerf condi mesmer before they nerf spellbreaker. And probably scourge will receive barrier buff :)

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

Idk but I feel the team comp is way more diverse now that PoF launched. I use Scourge to counter spellbreaker by stripping their ridiculous amount of boons. It comes down to skill. Every class has a class to counter it. So you need to learn it. Idk but it's been like that since forever. Most of my losses come from inexperienced players, which are there no matter what tier I play in.

[Aomine.5012]

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:Idk but I feel the team comp is way more diverse now that PoF launched. I use Scourge to counter spellbreaker by stripping their ridiculous amount of boons. It comes down to skill. Every class has a class to counter it. So you need to learn it. Idk but it's been like that since forever. Most of my losses come from inexperienced players, which are there no matter what tier I play in.

Diverse as to every single game with 2~4 Spellbreakers and 2~5 Scourge, duo que Firebrand tank and occasionally some cheap Deadeye?

[Miyu.8137]

@Arheundel.6451 said:Reaching out to the devs.....Scourge and Spellbreaker are absolutely essential to the game

All that boon ripping/corruption/punishment keeps at bay all the cancerous builds created post PoF, that would be let free to join the other cancerous builds from HoT meta in case Scourge and Spellbreaker ar taken out:

-condition mirage/chrono-dragonhunter/ bunker firebrand/ burning burst firebrand-tanky holosmith/tanky scrapper-staff mender druid

The specs above require very little effort to stay alive and perform extremely well even when you have multiple version of them in a team, they make the game boring, slow, unenjoyable. Scourge and Spellbreaker are the heroes of this expansion because they've brought a so much needed change of gameplay , a gameplay that has remained static for the last 3 years, boonbot stealthing/block spammers bunkers with plethora of CC/aoe trap crap.

Both these specs are devastating no doubt but the amount of counterplay they offer is unparalleled , truly a great job on the devs part: in case they both get nerfed....we will need massive nerfs to HoT specs and some PoF ones ( holosmith-mirage-firebrand), that's what I think.

-Scourge has only barrier as defense, virtually no stability, no charge...just loads of zoning and that makes them extremely vulnerable to ranged burst dmg ( no like pre-nerf reapers)-Spellbreakers...90% of what they are is "full counter", very visible , enough to bait and dodge and after that spellbreaker is even weaker than core war

So...why that hate about Scourge and Spellbreaker?.....they are anti-cheese builds: that's what I love about them, that's what many like me wanted for years - a direct hardcounter to all cheese in game ( and we still need even more hardcounrters to stealth cheesers and boonbot bunkers)

So you would counter cancerous builds with more cancerous builds? How does this fit into your philosophy? We got a class, which is one of the most tanky in game while playing the most offensive amulet in game. Does this look ok for you? We got a class, which headlesly smash the keyboard and kill overything on point, does this look ok for you?

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Miyu.8137 said:So you would counter cancerous builds with more cancerous builds? How does this fit into your philosophy? We got a class, which is one of the most tanky in game while playing the most offensive amulet in game. Does this look ok for you? We got a class, which headlesly smash the keyboard and kill overything on point, does this look ok for you?

What is your definition of a non-cancerous build? Can you give me an example, please?

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:Idk but I feel the team comp is way more diverse now that PoF launched. I use Scourge to counter spellbreaker by stripping their ridiculous amount of boons. It comes down to skill. Every class has a class to counter it. So you need to learn it. Idk but it's been like that since forever. Most of my losses come from inexperienced players, which are there no matter what tier I play in.

No way. Before PoF, most of the professions had builds that were competitive, and you got a variety every time. Right now, Scourge and Spellbreaker stand pretty much head and shoulders above everything else, with Firebrand close behind.

[Kiritodatrth.1548]

All is fine... just as old Chrono, DD, DH... Just keep as it is, ppl will adapt... and they have to... Support guard is already a very good alternative against both builds...It can survive a scourge and spellbreaker for hours... Just because ppl doesnt want to change their build doesnt mean all other things have to be nerfed...Otherwise will be Holow, Mirage, DD meta all over again and I'm really sick of it... I'm ok with Scourge and SB as it is... Even if I don't like scourge mechanics...

And I do agree that they should not have released scourge, never, with this mechanics (but too late, also DH should never has been released), and I think everyclass should have access to something similar to FC, not only war... maybe give other classes similar utility but with longer CD, and leave FC as it is (since it's Spellbreaker trademark).

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:All is fine... just as old Chrono, DD, DH... Just keep as it is, ppl will adapt... and they have to... Support guard is already a very good alternative against both builds...It can survive a scourge and spellbreaker for hours... Just because ppl doesnt want to change their build doesnt mean all other things have to be nerfed...Otherwise will be Holow, Mirage, DD meta all over again and I'm really sick of it... I'm ok with Scourge and SB as it is... Even if I don't like scourge mechanics...

And I do agree that they should not have released scourge, never, with this mechanics (but too late, also DH should never has been released), and I think everyclass should have access to something similar to FC, not only war... maybe give other classes similar utility but with longer CD, and leave FC as it is (since it's Spellbreaker trademark).

In other words, your opinion is, "cutting the number of professions in the meta in half is fine; everyone can just stop playing the professions they actually want to adapt." No thanks.

[brannigan.9831]

Um no and half the builds you mentioned already were not a problem.

[Genesis.5169]

@Foxraging.1269 said:

@Sombrero.9204 said:Calling Condi mirage cancerous is being stupid, there's no other word. It's litterally the only way a mirage can do decent damage, if you have any issue with how Mirage plays GW2 isn't for you, Mesmers are meant to be annoying to fight against they designed the class only around that, get used to it.

Also spellbreakers and scourge are not needed to counter the builds you mention, first of all many balanced builds counter them heavily and secondly you feel they are needed simply because the game is awfully balanced to begin with. It's way too easy to have an army of boon on yourself at all time for many classes (if not all), way too easy for necromancers in general to bounce way too much conditions and overall the power creep went way too far (and shouldn't have been a thing in the first place, newly introduced classes in GW1 never felt like a huge power creep and the game was overall pretty balanced, and whenever an op build was born it was quickly nerfed to an at least counterable state).

The problem is that the devs have decided since 2012 to completely ignore the community and take forever to "balance" and the balance patches are quite often really underwhelming and change very few details. There has been something like 2 significant balance patches in 5 years so far and weirdly enough nothing really relevant for PoF launch when it was the most needed since basically ever. Scourge and Spellbreakers conceptually are good niche builds/ideas, the numbers they carry on their skills is way too high that's the issue.

For GW1 the dervish was way overpowered and basically unkillable. Ele's were stupid damage cancer. I wouldnt really call that pretty balanced.

Second, the fact that spellbreaker and scourge are causing this much trouble is because its shaking the meta. Give it two more weeks and peopl will have new builds to crush them with. Changing metas are good things.

I disagree if your a mesmer you have no counterplay to either specs, if they are good you have to put the axe down and walk away, i true believe these specs are truely OP atm, no amount of personal build tweaking is going to solve that, and if 2 classes can shake the meta this hard, its likely those said classes are OP.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Foxraging.1269 said:

@Sombrero.9204 said:Calling Condi mirage cancerous is being stupid, there's no other word. It's litterally the only way a mirage can do decent damage, if you have any issue with how Mirage plays GW2 isn't for you, Mesmers are meant to be annoying to fight against they designed the class only around that, get used to it.

Also spellbreakers and scourge are not needed to counter the builds you mention, first of all many balanced builds counter them heavily and secondly you feel they are needed simply because the game is awfully balanced to begin with. It's way too easy to have an army of boon on yourself at all time for many classes (if not all), way too easy for necromancers in general to bounce way too much conditions and overall the power creep went way too far (and shouldn't have been a thing in the first place, newly introduced classes in GW1 never felt like a huge power creep and the game was overall pretty balanced, and whenever an op build was born it was quickly nerfed to an at least counterable state).

The problem is that the devs have decided since 2012 to completely ignore the community and take forever to "balance" and the balance patches are quite often really underwhelming and change very few details. There has been something like 2 significant balance patches in 5 years so far and weirdly enough nothing really relevant for PoF launch when it was the most needed since basically ever. Scourge and Spellbreakers conceptually are good niche builds/ideas, the numbers they carry on their skills is way too high that's the issue.

For GW1 the dervish was way overpowered and basically unkillable. Ele's were stupid damage cancer. I wouldnt really call that pretty balanced.

Second, the fact that spellbreaker and scourge are causing this much trouble is because its shaking the meta. Give it two more weeks and peopl will have new builds to crush them with. Changing metas are good things.

I disagree if your a mesmer you have no counterplay to either specs, if they are good you have to put the axe down and walk away, i true believe these specs are truely OP atm, no amount of personal build tweaking is going to solve that, and if 2 classes can shake the meta this hard, its likely those said classes are OP.

So.....what other specs do against mesmer? Because the same argument you use to nerf those 2..can be used to nerf mesmer, any L2p argument..will count for you also

[otto.5684]

@Arheundel.6451 said:Reaching out to the devs.....Scourge and Spellbreaker are absolutely essential to the game

All that boon ripping/corruption/punishment keeps at bay all the cancerous builds created post PoF, that would be let free to join the other cancerous builds from HoT meta in case Scourge and Spellbreaker ar taken out:

-condition mirage/chrono-dragonhunter/ bunker firebrand/ burning burst firebrand-tanky holosmith/tanky scrapper-staff mender druid

The specs above require very little effort to stay alive and perform extremely well even when you have multiple version of them in a team, they make the game boring, slow, unenjoyable. Scourge and Spellbreaker are the heroes of this expansion because they've brought a so much needed change of gameplay , a gameplay that has remained static for the last 3 years, boonbot stealthing/block spammers bunkers with plethora of CC/aoe trap crap.

Both these specs are devastating no doubt but the amount of counterplay they offer is unparalleled , truly a great job on the devs part: in case they both get nerfed....we will need massive nerfs to HoT specs and some PoF ones ( holosmith-mirage-firebrand), that's what I think.

-Scourge has only barrier as defense, virtually no stability, no charge...just loads of zoning and that makes them extremely vulnerable to ranged burst dmg ( no like pre-nerf reapers)-Spellbreakers...90% of what they are is "full counter", very visible , enough to bait and dodge and after that spellbreaker is even weaker than core war

So...why that hate about Scourge and Spellbreaker?.....they are anti-cheese builds: that's what I love about them, that's what many like me wanted for years - a direct hardcounter to all cheese in game ( and we still need even more hardcounrters to stealth cheesers and boonbot bunkers)

Something broken? Solution is to have something even more broken. Tada.. genius..

[Genesis.5169]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Foxraging.1269 said:

@Sombrero.9204 said:Calling Condi mirage cancerous is being stupid, there's no other word. It's litterally the only way a mirage can do decent damage, if you have any issue with how Mirage plays GW2 isn't for you, Mesmers are meant to be annoying to fight against they designed the class only around that, get used to it.

Also spellbreakers and scourge are not needed to counter the builds you mention, first of all many balanced builds counter them heavily and secondly you feel they are needed simply because the game is awfully balanced to begin with. It's way too easy to have an army of boon on yourself at all time for many classes (if not all), way too easy for necromancers in general to bounce way too much conditions and overall the power creep went way too far (and shouldn't have been a thing in the first place, newly introduced classes in GW1 never felt like a huge power creep and the game was overall pretty balanced, and whenever an op build was born it was quickly nerfed to an at least counterable state).

The problem is that the devs have decided since 2012 to completely ignore the community and take forever to "balance" and the balance patches are quite often really underwhelming and change very few details. There has been something like 2 significant balance patches in 5 years so far and weirdly enough nothing really relevant for PoF launch when it was the most needed since basically ever. Scourge and Spellbreakers conceptually are good niche builds/ideas, the numbers they carry on their skills is way too high that's the issue.

For GW1 the dervish was way overpowered and basically unkillable. Ele's were stupid damage cancer. I wouldnt really call that pretty balanced.

Second, the fact that spellbreaker and scourge are causing this much trouble is because its shaking the meta. Give it two more weeks and peopl will have new builds to crush them with. Changing metas are good things.

I disagree if your a mesmer you have no counterplay to either specs, if they are good you have to put the axe down and walk away, i true believe these specs are truely OP atm, no amount of personal build tweaking is going to solve that, and if 2 classes can shake the meta this hard, its likely those said classes are OP.

So.....what other specs do against mesmer? Because the same argument you use to nerf those 2..can be used to nerf mesmer, any L2p argument..will count for you also

What are you talking about thieves have been natural counters to mesmers since forever as well, druids, scrappers, warriors who spam resistance.There are tons of counters for mesmers, the reasons why mesmers can succeed is because they're toolkit when you have l2p'd allows us to force the enemy to make mistakes. But tool for tool if those classes can maintain focus on the real me i get rekt'd.

Not that they do or anything, cause i'm a damn good mesmer but if they did yea except those damn druids and scrappers i just can't kill em and eventually they will wear me down so i just rotate some where else..

[Bedlicka.7413]

TWO AOE PVE NECROS in all peas.Stupid game.

[Kiritodatrth.1548]

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:All is fine... just as old Chrono, DD, DH... Just keep as it is, ppl will adapt... and they have to... Support guard is already a very good alternative against both builds...It can survive a scourge and spellbreaker for hours... Just because ppl doesnt want to change their build doesnt mean all other things have to be nerfed...Otherwise will be Holow, Mirage, DD meta all over again and I'm really sick of it... I'm ok with Scourge and SB as it is... Even if I don't like scourge mechanics...

And I do agree that they should not have released scourge, never, with this mechanics (but too late, also DH should never has been released), and I think everyclass should have access to something similar to FC, not only war... maybe give other classes similar utility but with longer CD, and leave FC as it is (since it's Spellbreaker trademark).

In other words, your opinion is, "cutting the number of professions in the meta in half is fine; everyone can just

stop playing the professions they actually want to

adapt." No thanks.

Nops, What I'm saying is that nerfing will only bring the Meta2 to another cancer, so no thanks either... Better fix the game than start nerfing nonsense.... easy fix? Do not allow class stack in sPVP rank... as it suppose to be... this will not allow 2 scourges and 2 spellbreakers in same game...

And I'm stating that scourge is a flaw design and that FC is health for sPVP cause stop this madness of "smash your head in the keyboard" to win a game.

[Kiritodatrth.1548]

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Foxraging.1269 said:

@Sombrero.9204 said:Calling Condi mirage cancerous is being stupid, there's no other word. It's litterally the only way a mirage can do decent damage, if you have any issue with how Mirage plays GW2 isn't for you, Mesmers are meant to be annoying to fight against they designed the class only around that, get used to it.

Also spellbreakers and scourge are not needed to counter the builds you mention, first of all many balanced builds counter them heavily and secondly you feel they are needed simply because the game is awfully balanced to begin with. It's way too easy to have an army of boon on yourself at all time for many classes (if not all), way too easy for necromancers in general to bounce way too much conditions and overall the power creep went way too far (and shouldn't have been a thing in the first place, newly introduced classes in GW1 never felt like a huge power creep and the game was overall pretty balanced, and whenever an op build was born it was quickly nerfed to an at least counterable state).

The problem is that the devs have decided since 2012 to completely ignore the community and take forever to "balance" and the balance patches are quite often really underwhelming and change very few details. There has been something like 2 significant balance patches in 5 years so far and weirdly enough nothing really relevant for PoF launch when it was the most needed since basically ever. Scourge and Spellbreakers conceptually are good niche builds/ideas, the numbers they carry on their skills is way too high that's the issue.

For GW1 the dervish was way overpowered and basically unkillable. Ele's were stupid damage cancer. I wouldnt really call that pretty balanced.

Second, the fact that spellbreaker and scourge are causing this much trouble is because its shaking the meta. Give it two more weeks and peopl will have new builds to crush them with. Changing metas are good things.

I disagree if your a mesmer you have no counterplay to either specs, if they are good you have to put the axe down and walk away, i true believe these specs are truely OP atm, no amount of personal build tweaking is going to solve that, and if 2 classes can shake the meta this hard, its likely those said classes are OP.

As a said my friend "as a mesmer".... as a Reaper I could do nothing for 3 years against a mesmer (both specs) I HAD NO COUNTER PLAY... As a war neither... without FC mesmer can just press 7 buttons and win the match against my core war... so I have to be careful and Kite there is no counter play as you said...

So in reality ppl just want old mesmer thief DH meta ... press 3 buttons no thinking win... and call this "abailities"

[Arheundel.6451]

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Foxraging.1269 said:

@Sombrero.9204 said:Calling Condi mirage cancerous is being stupid, there's no other word. It's litterally the only way a mirage can do decent damage, if you have any issue with how Mirage plays GW2 isn't for you, Mesmers are meant to be annoying to fight against they designed the class only around that, get used to it.

Also spellbreakers and scourge are not needed to counter the builds you mention, first of all many balanced builds counter them heavily and secondly you feel they are needed simply because the game is awfully balanced to begin with. It's way too easy to have an army of boon on yourself at all time for many classes (if not all), way too easy for necromancers in general to bounce way too much conditions and overall the power creep went way too far (and shouldn't have been a thing in the first place, newly introduced classes in GW1 never felt like a huge power creep and the game was overall pretty balanced, and whenever an op build was born it was quickly nerfed to an at least counterable state).

The problem is that the devs have decided since 2012 to completely ignore the community and take forever to "balance" and the balance patches are quite often really underwhelming and change very few details. There has been something like 2 significant balance patches in 5 years so far and weirdly enough nothing really relevant for PoF launch when it was the most needed since basically ever. Scourge and Spellbreakers conceptually are good niche builds/ideas, the numbers they carry on their skills is way too high that's the issue.

For GW1 the dervish was way overpowered and basically unkillable. Ele's were stupid damage cancer. I wouldnt really call that pretty balanced.

Second, the fact that spellbreaker and scourge are causing this much trouble is because its shaking the meta. Give it two more weeks and peopl will have new builds to crush them with. Changing metas are good things.

I disagree if your a mesmer you have no counterplay to either specs, if they are good you have to put the axe down and walk away, i true believe these specs are truely OP atm, no amount of personal build tweaking is going to solve that, and if 2 classes can shake the meta this hard, its likely those said classes are OP.

So.....what other specs do against mesmer? Because the same argument you use to nerf those 2..can be used to nerf mesmer, any L2p argument..will count for you also

What are you talking about thieves have been natural counters to mesmers since forever as well, druids, scrappers, warriors who spam resistance.There are tons of counters for mesmers, the reasons why mesmers can succeed is because they're toolkit when you have l2p'd allows us to force the enemy to make mistakes. But tool for tool if those classes can maintain focus on the real me i get rekt'd.

Not that they do or anything, cause i'm a kitten good mesmer but if they did yea except those kitten druids and scrappers i just can't kill em and eventually they will wear me down so i just rotate some where else

..

Stealth gives players a false analysis of their own abilities...should I place these same players on builds devoid of any stealth...you will see their rate of success decrease dramatically .

[Loop.8106]

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Foxraging.1269 said:

@Sombrero.9204 said:Calling Condi mirage cancerous is being stupid, there's no other word. It's litterally the only way a mirage can do decent damage, if you have any issue with how Mirage plays GW2 isn't for you, Mesmers are meant to be annoying to fight against they designed the class only around that, get used to it.

Also spellbreakers and scourge are not needed to counter the builds you mention, first of all many balanced builds counter them heavily and secondly you feel they are needed simply because the game is awfully balanced to begin with. It's way too easy to have an army of boon on yourself at all time for many classes (if not all), way too easy for necromancers in general to bounce way too much conditions and overall the power creep went way too far (and shouldn't have been a thing in the first place, newly introduced classes in GW1 never felt like a huge power creep and the game was overall pretty balanced, and whenever an op build was born it was quickly nerfed to an at least counterable state).

The problem is that the devs have decided since 2012 to completely ignore the community and take forever to "balance" and the balance patches are quite often really underwhelming and change very few details. There has been something like 2 significant balance patches in 5 years so far and weirdly enough nothing really relevant for PoF launch when it was the most needed since basically ever. Scourge and Spellbreakers conceptually are good niche builds/ideas, the numbers they carry on their skills is way too high that's the issue.

For GW1 the dervish was way overpowered and basically unkillable. Ele's were stupid damage cancer. I wouldnt really call that pretty balanced.

Second, the fact that spellbreaker and scourge are causing this much trouble is because its shaking the meta. Give it two more weeks and peopl will have new builds to crush them with. Changing metas are good things.

I disagree if your a mesmer you have no counterplay to either specs, if they are good you have to put the axe down and walk away, i true believe these specs are truely OP atm, no amount of personal build tweaking is going to solve that, and if 2 classes can shake the meta this hard, its likely those said classes are OP.

As a said my friend "as a mesmer".... as a Reaper I could do nothing for 3 years against a mesmer (both specs) I HAD NO COUNTER PLAY... As a war neither... without FC mesmer can just press 7 buttons and win the match against my core war... so I have to be careful and Kite there is no counter play as you said...

So in reality ppl just want old mesmer thief DH meta ... press 3 buttons no thinking win... and call this "abailities"

Okay, Im genuinly curious. Did people actually thing DH was anywhere near meta post the first True Shot / Test of Faith nerf? As for Mesmer countering reapers, not really. you have the tools to both decap and kite the mesmer. Fear marking the Shield 4 and simply kite and baiting out condis. You will lose on power reaper though.

[Harry Foud.1935]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Foxraging.1269 said:

@Sombrero.9204 said:Calling Condi mirage cancerous is being stupid, there's no other word. It's litterally the only way a mirage can do decent damage, if you have any issue with how Mirage plays GW2 isn't for you, Mesmers are meant to be annoying to fight against they designed the class only around that, get used to it.

Also spellbreakers and scourge are not needed to counter the builds you mention, first of all many balanced builds counter them heavily and secondly you feel they are needed simply because the game is awfully balanced to begin with. It's way too easy to have an army of boon on yourself at all time for many classes (if not all), way too easy for necromancers in general to bounce way too much conditions and overall the power creep went way too far (and shouldn't have been a thing in the first place, newly introduced classes in GW1 never felt like a huge power creep and the game was overall pretty balanced, and whenever an op build was born it was quickly nerfed to an at least counterable state).

The problem is that the devs have decided since 2012 to completely ignore the community and take forever to "balance" and the balance patches are quite often really underwhelming and change very few details. There has been something like 2 significant balance patches in 5 years so far and weirdly enough nothing really relevant for PoF launch when it was the most needed since basically ever. Scourge and Spellbreakers conceptually are good niche builds/ideas, the numbers they carry on their skills is way too high that's the issue.

For GW1 the dervish was way overpowered and basically unkillable. Ele's were stupid damage cancer. I wouldnt really call that pretty balanced.

Second, the fact that spellbreaker and scourge are causing this much trouble is because its shaking the meta. Give it two more weeks and peopl will have new builds to crush them with. Changing metas are good things.

I disagree if your a mesmer you have no counterplay to either specs, if they are good you have to put the axe down and walk away, i true believe these specs are truely OP atm, no amount of personal build tweaking is going to solve that, and if 2 classes can shake the meta this hard, its likely those said classes are OP.

So.....what other specs do against mesmer? Because the same argument you use to nerf those 2..can be used to nerf mesmer, any L2p argument..will count for you also

What are you talking about thieves have been natural counters to mesmers since forever as well, druids, scrappers, warriors who spam resistance.There are tons of counters for mesmers, the reasons why mesmers can succeed is because they're toolkit when you have l2p'd allows us to force the enemy to make mistakes. But tool for tool if those classes can maintain focus on the real me i get rekt'd.

Not that they do or anything, cause i'm a kitten good mesmer but if they did yea except those kitten druids and scrappers i just can't kill em and eventually they will wear me down so i just rotate some where else

..

Stealth gives players a false analysis of their own abilities...should I place these same players on builds devoid of any stealth...you will see their rate of success decrease dramatically .

I still can't believe you think Scourge and Spellbreaker are fine to the game. And now you say that other classes cant do anything agains a mesmer? A MESMER?? Name one. Please name one class.

[Kiritodatrth.1548]

@Loop.8106 said:

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Foxraging.1269 said:

@Sombrero.9204 said:Calling Condi mirage cancerous is being stupid, there's no other word. It's litterally the only way a mirage can do decent damage, if you have any issue with how Mirage plays GW2 isn't for you, Mesmers are meant to be annoying to fight against they designed the class only around that, get used to it.

Also spellbreakers and scourge are not needed to counter the builds you mention, first of all many balanced builds counter them heavily and secondly you feel they are needed simply because the game is awfully balanced to begin with. It's way too easy to have an army of boon on yourself at all time for many classes (if not all), way too easy for necromancers in general to bounce way too much conditions and overall the power creep went way too far (and shouldn't have been a thing in the first place, newly introduced classes in GW1 never felt like a huge power creep and the game was overall pretty balanced, and whenever an op build was born it was quickly nerfed to an at least counterable state).

The problem is that the devs have decided since 2012 to completely ignore the community and take forever to "balance" and the balance patches are quite often really underwhelming and change very few details. There has been something like 2 significant balance patches in 5 years so far and weirdly enough nothing really relevant for PoF launch when it was the most needed since basically ever. Scourge and Spellbreakers conceptually are good niche builds/ideas, the numbers they carry on their skills is way too high that's the issue.

For GW1 the dervish was way overpowered and basically unkillable. Ele's were stupid damage cancer. I wouldnt really call that pretty balanced.

Second, the fact that spellbreaker and scourge are causing this much trouble is because its shaking the meta. Give it two more weeks and peopl will have new builds to crush them with. Changing metas are good things.

I disagree if your a mesmer you have no counterplay to either specs, if they are good you have to put the axe down and walk away, i true believe these specs are truely OP atm, no amount of personal build tweaking is going to solve that, and if 2 classes can shake the meta this hard, its likely those said classes are OP.

As a said my friend "as a mesmer".... as a Reaper I could do nothing for 3 years against a mesmer (both specs) I HAD NO COUNTER PLAY... As a war neither... without FC mesmer can just press 7 buttons and win the match against my core war... so I have to be careful and Kite there is no counter play as you said...

So in reality ppl just want old mesmer thief DH meta ... press 3 buttons no thinking win... and call this "abailities"

Okay, Im genuinly curious. Did people actually thing DH was anywhere near meta post the first True Shot / Test of Faith nerf? As for Mesmer countering reapers, not really. you have the tools to both decap and kite the mesmer. Fear marking the Shield 4 and simply kite and baiting out condis. You will lose on power reaper though.

Different problems... one is mechanical flaw in the design, the other is the overnerf they did with DH... DH is wrong by design (as scourge) too many of everything, then they nerf dmg and kill a class... Wanna keep the dmg cut the mobility that for me would be better solution imo...But I was just stating classes where the risk reward ratio is very low... (Scourge, Mirage, Holo, Spellbreaker, DD) you can make mistakes and pay very little for that... reaper as you said has a counter to Mesmer, DH, War, you just have to be 100 times better than the guy playing in the other side and hope he make a big mistake in the right time meantime you are trying to bait for it... the other side can make 10 mistakes and pay very little for that, or because they can disengage, use invul, blocks, distortion and come back as new....

you can always win a fight playing right, doesnt matter what you are playing... I was playing core war yesterday, and I could win 1 vs 1 against pretty much any class, but not because my class allowed me to do that... I lost pretty rough fights where I would have prolly won because i didnt had the tools to win it... I think you fell same way playing core guard sometimes... Not cool being 1 shot by a power mirage coming from stealth... and breaking stuns with evade... not cool... But nerf is not the solution... FC is counter to that also to boom strip... F4 - scourge is counter to that... that's why I say the we need more FC, not only to war but all other professions, otherwise I will keep pressing my 7 buttons 1 shot you stripping your stability and moving to other side of the map at the same time... just brainless game...

other than this, I don't think we will solve problems meantime ppl can stack classes in sPvP... a team with 3 scourges will win prolly, not because scourge is overpower, just because the utilities overlapped become too strong... 2 spellbreakers the amount of CC spam is too much... 1 can be manageable... Only way to find out is to stop the stack classes and then consider changes from there...

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:All is fine... just as old Chrono, DD, DH... Just keep as it is, ppl will adapt... and they have to... Support guard is already a very good alternative against both builds...It can survive a scourge and spellbreaker for hours... Just because ppl doesnt want to change their build doesnt mean all other things have to be nerfed...Otherwise will be Holow, Mirage, DD meta all over again and I'm really sick of it... I'm ok with Scourge and SB as it is... Even if I don't like scourge mechanics...

And I do agree that they should not have released scourge, never, with this mechanics (but too late, also DH should never has been released), and I think everyclass should have access to something similar to FC, not only war... maybe give other classes similar utility but with longer CD, and leave FC as it is (since it's Spellbreaker trademark).

In other words, your opinion is, "cutting the number of professions in the meta in half is fine; everyone can just

stop playing the professions they actually want to

adapt." No thanks.

Nops, What I'm saying is that nerfing will only bring the Meta2 to another cancer, so no thanks either... Better fix the game than start nerfing nonsense.... easy fix? Do not allow class stack in sPVP rank... as it suppose to be... this will not allow 2 scourges and 2 spellbreakers in same game...

And I'm stating that scourge is a flaw design and that FC is health for sPVP cause stop this madness of "smash your head in the keyboard" to win a game.

Oh, please. It doesn't stop smashing your head on the keyboard as a winning strategy, it just restricts it to warriors.

Edit: Besides, it's animation bugged right now. How the hell are you supposed to counterplay FC when the animation is always on? The only possible way to avoid triggering it, no matter how good a player you are, is to not hit the warrior at all. This is unacceptable.

[Crinn.7864]

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:All is fine... just as old Chrono, DD, DH... Just keep as it is, ppl will adapt... and they have to... Support guard is already a very good alternative against both builds...It can survive a scourge and spellbreaker for hours... Just because ppl doesnt want to change their build doesnt mean all other things have to be nerfed...Otherwise will be Holow, Mirage, DD meta all over again and I'm really sick of it... I'm ok with Scourge and SB as it is... Even if I don't like scourge mechanics...

And I do agree that they should not have released scourge, never, with this mechanics (but too late, also DH should never has been released), and I think everyclass should have access to something similar to FC, not only war... maybe give other classes similar utility but with longer CD, and leave FC as it is (since it's Spellbreaker trademark).

In other words, your opinion is, "cutting the number of professions in the meta in half is fine; everyone can just

stop playing the professions they actually want to

adapt." No thanks.

Nops, What I'm saying is that nerfing will only bring the Meta2 to another cancer, so no thanks either... Better fix the game than start nerfing nonsense.... easy fix? Do not allow class stack in sPVP rank... as it suppose to be... this will not allow 2 scourges and 2 spellbreakers in same game...

And I'm stating that scourge is a flaw design and that FC is health for sPVP cause stop this madness of "smash your head in the keyboard" to win a game.

Oh, please. It doesn't stop smashing your head on the keyboard as a winning strategy, it just restricts it to warriors.

Edit: Besides, it's animation bugged right now. How the hell are you supposed to counterplay FC when the animation is

always on

? The only possible way to avoid triggering it, no matter how good a player you are, is to not hit the warrior at all. This is unacceptable.

To play Devil's advocate here, Full Counter has a audio cue that is completely reliable. Which you should be paying attention to since the human brain reacts to audio cues faster than visual cues anyways.

[Vitali.5039]

@Crinn.7864 said:

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:All is fine... just as old Chrono, DD, DH... Just keep as it is, ppl will adapt... and they have to... Support guard is already a very good alternative against both builds...It can survive a scourge and spellbreaker for hours... Just because ppl doesnt want to change their build doesnt mean all other things have to be nerfed...Otherwise will be Holow, Mirage, DD meta all over again and I'm really sick of it... I'm ok with Scourge and SB as it is... Even if I don't like scourge mechanics...

And I do agree that they should not have released scourge, never, with this mechanics (but too late, also DH should never has been released), and I think everyclass should have access to something similar to FC, not only war... maybe give other classes similar utility but with longer CD, and leave FC as it is (since it's Spellbreaker trademark).

In other words, your opinion is, "cutting the number of professions in the meta in half is fine; everyone can just

stop playing the professions they actually want to

adapt." No thanks.

Nops, What I'm saying is that nerfing will only bring the Meta2 to another cancer, so no thanks either... Better fix the game than start nerfing nonsense.... easy fix? Do not allow class stack in sPVP rank... as it suppose to be... this will not allow 2 scourges and 2 spellbreakers in same game...

And I'm stating that scourge is a flaw design and that FC is health for sPVP cause stop this madness of "smash your head in the keyboard" to win a game.

Oh, please. It doesn't stop smashing your head on the keyboard as a winning strategy, it just restricts it to warriors.

Edit: Besides, it's animation bugged right now. How the hell are you supposed to counterplay FC when the animation is

always on

? The only possible way to avoid triggering it, no matter how good a player you are, is to not hit the warrior at all. This is unacceptable.

To play Devil's advocate here, Full Counter has a audio cue that is completely reliable. Which you should be paying attention to since the human brain reacts to audio cues faster than visual cues anyways.

Full Counter's sound gives you the tell: if you heal now without attack the SB you'll not be interrupted.And then a proud allied ranger will "perform a +1"

[silent killer.5732]

@Amityel.5324 said:how to counter cheese builds? By cheese king builds (aka scourge spellbreaker) :)

So you admit they were cheese builds

[Lucentfir.7430]

@silent killer.5732 said:

@Amityel.5324 said:how to counter cheese builds? By cheese king builds (aka scourge spellbreaker) :)

So you admit they were cheese builds

To be fair, anything considered a good or decent build is classified as a cheese build, because it works.