Thief perma dodge underwater with #5

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

Broken.Why is this still a thing.Can easily win people on land then they flee to the water to spam spear 5 and become invincible. My grandma could do wel on thief with this.

[kash.9213]

It sometimes feels invincible and I wish it were but not everyone out there neglected their water game.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

How do you manage your initiative? And it's still in melee range, any smart opponent would stay out of range.

[kash.9213]

@Aigleborgne.2981 said:How do you manage your initiative? And it's still in melee range, any smart opponent would stay out of range.

I'm still building Initiative during the animation/attacks, it's like 3 pretty telegraphed strikes, and with Preparedness the Initiative for the first one is about up while I'm finishing the third one. I use Scorpion Wire to pull people under if their running by on land and I use Tow Line, Withdraw, Basilik Venom, and Roll for Initiative to keep close or scramble out while we're both under water, but Tow Line is good most of the time and doesn't use up Utility cooldowns.

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

@Aigleborgne.2981 said:How do you manage your initiative? And it's still in melee range, any smart opponent would stay out of range.

Nope. I’ve tried it myself and it’s prettymuch god mode. You can port to them, pull etc.I do 7k to people with 3k armour And protection. Broke as fk.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

You know its a slow day when people complain about underwater skills.

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:You know its a slow day when people complain about underwater skills.

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:You know its a slow day when people complain about underwater skills.

You know people have 0 experience in wvw roaming when they say things like this ??

[Indecipherable.3621]

Lmao ? too good

[Sobx.1758]

Underwater combat oof.

[Momekic.8603]

There are more op classes underwater than thief.

I cant believe people have stooped to complaining about thief underwater combat now.... ?

People wont stop complaining about thief until they have like 1 health max and can only move at cripple speed.

[Sobx.1758]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:It’s a wvw thing you pve peasants wouldn’t understand

Yeah, keep roleplaying as a fish then and pretend you're roaming.

[PeerlessArch.6547]

I'm dying of laughter reading this entire thread. Nothing more to complain about thief -- nerf underwater skillz!111!! ...

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

To the people not taking this thread seriously because its about underwater combat, you are showing a shocking disregard for the state of the underwater wvw scene. Ill have you all know I was in the top underwater gvg guild where we were undefeated for over a year. Shadow assault is among the most op skills in the underwater gvg meta, and thief has won 73% of all underwater 1v1 tournaments over the last 6 years. The number of people claiming to be knowledgeable of the balance of underwater wvw is laughable.

[miguelsil.6324]

Because its another build / skill that Anet allows on this class to abuse. Dont get your hopes up for a fix.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:You know its a slow day when people complain about underwater skills.

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:You know its a slow day when people complain about underwater skills.

You know people have 0 experience in wvw roaming when they say things like this ??

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:It’s a wvw thing you pve peasants wouldn’t understand

It's pretty rich you're saying we're pve peasants when you're stupid enough to follow the thief into the water in the first place. Getting tunnel vision when chasing a thief is a rookie mistake in roaming.

On a more helpful note, all I've done in this game for years is solo roam on thief, and I've only seen a handful of thieves use water like this. The ones that do usually do it when they're about to die, and by doing it they lose all right to complain about underhanded tactics in a 1v1. So if I see one do it I'll disengage, swap to condi and then bomb them as soon as they come back on land. It doesn't matter how much they evade if you get enough condis on them in the opener, and odds are their cleanses are on cool down because of the reset. Enjoy the salt.

[Loboling.5293]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:thief has won 73% of all underwater 1v1 tournaments over the last 6 years.

Oh no... I didn't realize this is affecting such a large portion of the playerbase.... A-Net, please fix this before you make any new expansions. We should first get the game in order before moving forward, and this is a staggering problem.

Also, can we nerf the glyphs of elementals. If an elementalist cycles between both the elite and utility skill, they can get almost 75% pet uptime for a class that isn't even a pet class... Another big problem to fix along with the imbalances of '1v1 underwater pvp tournaments in wvw'. Something I know everyone on this forum is actively participating in.

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

@Momekic.8603 said:There are more op classes underwater than thief.

I cant believe people have stooped to complaining about thief underwater combat now.... ?

People wont stop complaining about thief until they have like 1 health max and can only move at cripple speed.

More op underwater than 7k perma dodge ? Okay, bring whatever class you liek and I’ll bro g thief. I can put money on it that you’ll lose.

[Loboling.5293]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@Momekic.8603 said:There are more op classes underwater than thief.

I cant believe people have stooped to complaining about thief underwater combat now.... ?

People wont stop complaining about thief until they have like 1 health max and can only move at cripple speed.

More op underwater than 7k perma dodge ? Okay, bring whatever class you liek and I’ll bro g thief. I can put money on it that you’ll lose.

You can't move while channeling the skill... Good luck beating other players with that. I feel like this is a backwards troll attempt at S/P thieves that are actually killing people while evading. Because the skill stuns when it lands, holding the enemy in place.... But I'll definitely give you points for baiting so many people.

[kash.9213]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:You know its a slow day when people complain about underwater skills.

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:You know its a slow day when people complain about underwater skills.

You know people have 0 experience in wvw roaming when they say things like this ??

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:It’s a wvw thing you pve peasants wouldn’t understand

It's pretty rich you're saying we're pve peasants when you're stupid enough to follow the thief into the water in the first place. Getting tunnel vision when chasing a thief is a rookie mistake in roaming.

On a more helpful note, all I've done in this game for years is solo roam on thief, and I've only seen a handful of thieves use water like this. The ones that do usually do it when they're about to die, and by doing it they lose all right to complain about underhanded tactics in a 1v1. So if I see one do it I'll disengage, swap to condi and then bomb them as soon as they come back on land. It doesn't matter how much they evade if you get enough condis on them in the opener, and odds are their cleanses are on cool down because of the reset. Enjoy the salt.

No you’re a tool.

The thief can just go to the water everytime he starts to lose and becomes unkillable

. With 90% dodge uptime then Invis for the rest whisky doing 7k dmg during the evades. If you think that’s fair you’re just a dumb dumbs.

I'll have to remember to bring my inflatable pool with me where ever go, or I can kite people to a corner of a wvw map that has enough water.

Thief is great underwater but it's all a 50/50 fight if the other person bothered to learn their underwater skills, which are about as powerful as what you put on your utility bar by the way. Also you're on about Shadow Assault which is fun but telegraphed and avoidable, Tow Line is clutch and Nine Tailed Srike is what you want to land.

I say this seriously in case you're taking it seriously, but seriously...

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:You know its a slow day when people complain about underwater skills.

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:You know its a slow day when people complain about underwater skills.

You know people have 0 experience in wvw roaming when they say things like this ??

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:It’s a wvw thing you pve peasants wouldn’t understand

It's pretty rich you're saying we're pve peasants when you're stupid enough to follow the thief into the water in the first place. Getting tunnel vision when chasing a thief is a rookie mistake in roaming.

On a more helpful note, all I've done in this game for years is solo roam on thief, and I've only seen a handful of thieves use water like this. The ones that do usually do it when they're about to die, and by doing it they lose all right to complain about underhanded tactics in a 1v1. So if I see one do it I'll disengage, swap to condi and then bomb them as soon as they come back on land. It doesn't matter how much they evade if you get enough condis on them in the opener, and odds are their cleanses are on cool down because of the reset. Enjoy the salt.

No you’re a tool.The thief can just go to the water everytime he starts to lose and becomes unkillable. With 90% dodge uptime then Invis for the rest whisky doing 7k dmg during the evades. If you think that’s fair you’re just a dumb dumbs.

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:You know its a slow day when people complain about underwater skills.

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:You know its a slow day when people complain about underwater skills.

You know people have 0 experience in wvw roaming when they say things like this ??

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:It’s a wvw thing you pve peasants wouldn’t understand

It's pretty rich you're saying we're pve peasants when you're stupid enough to follow the thief into the water in the first place. Getting tunnel vision when chasing a thief is a rookie mistake in roaming.

On a more helpful note, all I've done in this game for years is solo roam on thief, and I've only seen a handful of thieves use water like this. The ones that do usually do it when they're about to die, and by doing it they lose all right to complain about underhanded tactics in a 1v1. So if I see one do it I'll disengage, swap to condi and then bomb them as soon as they come back on land. It doesn't matter how much they evade if you get enough condis on them in the opener, and odds are their cleanses are on cool down because of the reset. Enjoy the salt.

You clearly play at a level where people are not skilled. This never happens vs a competent player, but why should I expect from forum plebs ?

Did you actually read my post? xD

[KrHome.1920]

@PeerlessArch.6547 said:I'm dying of laughter reading this entire thread. Nothing more to complain about thief -- nerf underwater skillz!111!! ...Recognizing the options that underwater combat gives you esp. on EBG is what I call next level map awareness.

@topicYes the skill is broken.

Just avoid thieves underwater! You can't kill a thief player underwater, if he ever heard of spear5. But since even necros have an underwater leap to disengage from that nonsense, anet should fix other things first.

[Momekic.8603]

Did this guy stumble upon some new WvW underwater map we don't know about?

If not, who gives a shit, just swim out of the water....no true roamer in WvW will want to fight in the water.

Also, OP if you wanna just splash around in the kiddie pool, go play a ranger, the thief won’t be able to kill you. Even if he gets you in downstate you can pretty much infinite pet rez and keep whittling him down if needed. If its just you two the worst that can happen is a stalemate.

[Kallist.5917]

The attack costs 5 Init, and lasts for 2 seconds. With a coefficient of 2.4, Ascended weapons, and Vs a Med class, on 3 consecutive Crit's, under the effects of a full zerk loadout(including food and infusions), it can hit 8157 damage over the 3 hits. With available damage increases, expect an extra 1K(I couldnt be bothered to calculate this part).A thief can stun them for 1.95 seconds with Basalisk venom, enough time to get all 3 strikes in if they do not use a stun break of any kind. Unlikely given most classes have an automatic stunbreak that a lot of players run, but there are still noobs out there.A second full strike can be gained by using Devourer Venom, Immobilizing them for 1 second on the first strike, and again at the .6 second mark, giving them the 2 seconds, again, given that they don't use a cleans to remove it and get out of the way.So the damage would be between 16K and 19K give or take, if the enemy was unprepared and running full dps. Enough to gank a noob who doesnt know better. Combined with the Harpoons evades, and several other skills, Yeah, It can face roll the stupid pretty well under water, just dont count on it to help vs a player that knows their stuff.

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

@Kallist.5917 said:The attack costs 5 Init, and lasts for 2 seconds. With a coefficient of 2.4, Ascended weapons, and Vs a Med class, on 3 consecutive Crit's, under the effects of a full zerk loadout(including food and infusions), it can hit 8157 damage over the 3 hits. With available damage increases, expect an extra 1K(I couldnt be bothered to calculate this part).A thief can stun them for 1.95 seconds with Basalisk venom, enough time to get all 3 strikes in if they do not use a stun break of any kind. Unlikely given most classes have an automatic stunbreak that a lot of players run, but there are still noobs out there.A second full strike can be gained by using Devourer Venom, Immobilizing them for 1 second on the first strike, and again at the .6 second mark, giving them the 2 seconds, again, given that they don't use a cleans to remove it and get out of the way.So the damage would be between 16K and 19K give or take, if the enemy was unprepared and running full dps. Enough to gank a noob who doesnt know better. Combined with the Harpoons evades, and several other skills, Yeah, It can face roll the stupid pretty well under water, just dont count on it to help vs a player that knows their stuff.

Yes anyone can do that. Now imagine it in the hands of a player who also combines those skills with invis and other evades. It equals perma dodge. I’ve not seen anyone be able to kill good thieves using spear + spear with energy sigils on wel seap underwater with the right skill useage. It’s funny you have people saying pffft underwater combat who does that then we have others who give a breakdown on numbers like you’ve just done. Which is it.

[Sobx.1758]

@Trepidation Lost.3469 said:

@Kallist.5917 said:The attack costs 5 Init, and lasts for 2 seconds. With a coefficient of 2.4, Ascended weapons, and Vs a Med class, on 3 consecutive Crit's, under the effects of a full zerk loadout(including food and infusions), it can hit 8157 damage over the 3 hits. With available damage increases, expect an extra 1K(I couldnt be bothered to calculate this part).A thief can stun them for 1.95 seconds with Basalisk venom, enough time to get all 3 strikes in if they do not use a stun break of any kind. Unlikely given most classes have an automatic stunbreak that a lot of players run, but there are still noobs out there.A second full strike can be gained by using Devourer Venom, Immobilizing them for 1 second on the first strike, and again at the .6 second mark, giving them the 2 seconds, again, given that they don't use a cleans to remove it and get out of the way.So the damage would be between 16K and 19K give or take, if the enemy was unprepared and running full dps. Enough to gank a noob who doesnt know better. Combined with the Harpoons evades, and several other skills, Yeah, It can face roll the stupid pretty well under water, just dont count on it to help vs a player that knows their stuff.Which is it.

In what way are these exclusive?