Dadnir.5038 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 @Kumouta.4985 said:guess condition reaper is going to be back or I need to spend a lot of the gold I don't even have on turning into a support scourge.Well... support scourge is a WvW thing but however you invest it won't give you better support since all your support is condi cleanse/might gen. You won't gain a lot even if you invest the whole Anet dev team budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rym.1469 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 You have no common sense if you haven't seen this bugfix coming. It will hit Scourge where it is the most problematic - i.e. 30 stacks of torment bursts in a second seemingly out of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kumouta.4985 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 support scourge can near insta rez people and do respectable heals and barrier, along with OK damage for support. It's worth it if you like supporting. + yeah, decent might gen.I am, however, talking about what i've experienced from my own build. Not whatever copypaste thing half of the rest of the world refers to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kumouta.4985 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 @Kam.4092 said:@Kumouta.4985 said:guess condition reaper is going to be back or I need to spend a lot of the gold I don't even have on turning into a support scourge. This isn't going to make Condition Reaper better.True, but if condi scourge is going down enough, reaper will be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyger.5429 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 So they knowingly let a broken class into ranked PvP? Good to know Anet, really shows how much they care about PvP/WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ara.4569 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 @Kumouta.4985 said:@Kam.4092 said:@Kumouta.4985 said:guess condition reaper is going to be back or I need to spend a lot of the gold I don't even have on turning into a support scourge. This isn't going to make Condition Reaper better.True, but if condi scourge is going down enough, reaper will be better.You really trust balance team to successfully nerf scourge without hurting base necro / reaper on that one.Drawback of pneumatic sledgehammer has always been its precision: too much brute force is hard to control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermute.5408 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 @Rym.1469 said:You have no common sense if you haven't seen this bugfix coming. It will hit Scourge where it is the most problematic - i.e. 30 stacks of torment bursts in a second seemingly out of nowhere.Sorry, I don't PVP, but don't you need to enter like 3 stacked shades for that to happen, and then eat several F abilities on top? It's not like scourge can insta-cast all of that shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintermute.5408 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 @Kumouta.4985 said:@Kam.4092 said:@Kumouta.4985 said:guess condition reaper is going to be back or I need to spend a lot of the gold I don't even have on turning into a support scourge. This isn't going to make Condition Reaper better.True, but if condi scourge is going down enough, reaper will be better.It will never be better because of how it works. Chill field reliance is shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 If all they hit nerf-wise is the issue of multiple shades hitting the same target, I'm fine with that. That's a bug fix, really, and fixing that might actually help us with the support side as well. I have a feeling that overlapping Shades picking the same target is releated. Could be wrong, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substatic.6958 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 There's more btw,"We tend to be more critical of the things we work on – at the moment Scourge is an outlier with high value both defensively and offensively. I’d like to separate those options a bit more. "Get those alts ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastNobody.8319 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Welp was fun while it lasted guys. Good thing I started looking into other classes. Very glad I didn't invest any more money or time into trailblazer trinkets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crinn.7864 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 If Scourge is nerfed, there will no more viable necromancer builds for sPvP.Reaper is hardcountered by d/p thief, mirage, Spellbreaker, and to a lesser extent Holosmith. Reaper also lacks the damage to kill a bunker Firebrand. The only reason Scourge works in PvP is its insane damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drekor.5217 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 @Zenith.7301 said:@Ara.4569 said:No power reaper questions were answered.Most class questions were not answered. Only scourge and weaver received direct acknowledgement.Mirage wasn't even touched, and it and spellbreaker by far are the worst PvE elite PoF specs.Deadeye is so bad it didn't even hit your radar? Mirage has a competitive DPS spec@Crinn.7864 said:If Scourge is nerfed, there will no more viable necromancer builds for sPvP.Reaper is hardcountered by d/p thief, mirage, Spellbreaker, and to a lesser extent Holosmith. Reaper also lacks the damage to kill a bunker Firebrand. The only reason Scourge works in PvP is its insane damage.Nerfing Shade stacking won't be a big deal in sPvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltreez.6435 Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 @Substatic.6958 said:There's more btw,Scourge is an outlier with high value both defensively and offensively. I’d like to separate those options a bit more. "**Get those alts ready.What fucking Defense ?seriously i Dare a DEV to freaking come here in this Topic and freaking TELL us whats that OMG Defense he is talking about.... because thats a Load of Horse shit right there....that post alone now pissed me off more then anything ever in this freaking game and it came from a freaking DEV.................IS ANYONE PLAYS A DAMN NECRO IN THE OFFICE AT ALL ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Its like everytime the Design team tries to Make something useful for necro the balance team then comes and says NO fuck necros..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juno.1840 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @Zoltreez.6435 said:@Substatic.6958 said:There's more btw,Scourge is an outlier with high value both defensively and offensively. I’d like to separate those options a bit more. "**Get those alts ready.What kitten Defense ?seriously i Dare a DEV to freaking come here in this Topic and freaking TELL us whats that OMG Defense he is talking about.... because thats a Load of Horse kitten right there....that post alone now pissed me off more then anything ever in this freaking game and it came from a freaking DEV.................IS ANYONE PLAYS A kitten NECRO IN THE OFFICE AT ALL ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Its like everytime the Design team tries to Make something useful for necro the balance team then comes and says NO kitten necros.....My first guess is he's referring to the barriers which affect allies and are larger than most of the other barriers in the game (like Weaver for example). If I try to read the tea leaves, my guess would be that barriers will get a reduction in base value and an increase in healing power scaling. But I don't see that really do much since you can lace 600 healing power into your condi gear and still be pretty offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicious.5683 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @Crinn.7864 said:If Scourge is nerfed, there will no more viable necromancer builds for sPvP.Same for PVE(raids) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofsppades.6873 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @vicious.5683 said:@Crinn.7864 said:If Scourge is nerfed, there will no more viable necromancer builds for sPvP.Same for PVE(raids)The bugfix is about a 2k dps loss. Which puts it at about 36k. Which isn't that bad consider pre POF numbers and likely nerfing to other POF specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @vicious.5683 said:@Kam.4092 said:@vicious.5683 said:Now I'm happy I didn't buy POF. Comments like this never make sense to me. It's basically missing out on a lot of content just because a small nerf. The Shade tooltips describe them not benefitting when stacked, and the top 5 classes/builds need a nerf for the health of the Meta. Scourge happens to be one of them.If you really wouldn't buy an expansion over one small change, then I don't get why you'd even be playing now.I'm not supporting a game anymore that constantly nerf your favorite class into oblivion. It happened with necromancer at beta weekends, it happened to Reaper soon after HOT release and it will happen to Scourge now. You think it's gonna be a small nerf, well, it's not. Experience tell us that, and compensation buff will never arrive.Good luck. MMO much? Anyways, even with the change, your missing out on some of the best content so far. Stay happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahrgan.7401 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @Ara.4569 said:No power reaper questions were answered.At this point I can't even say they don't care, they are simply inept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @Zoltreez.6435 said:@Substatic.6958 said:There's more btw,Scourge is an outlier with high value both defensively and offensively. I’d like to separate those options a bit more. "**Get those alts ready.What kitten Defense ?seriously i Dare a DEV to freaking come here in this Topic and freaking TELL us whats that OMG Defense he is talking about.... because thats a Load of Horse kitten right there....that post alone now pissed me off more then anything ever in this freaking game and it came from a freaking DEV.................IS ANYONE PLAYS A kitten NECRO IN THE OFFICE AT ALL ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Its like everytime the Design team tries to Make something useful for necro the balance team then comes and says NO kitten necros.....They just didn't take into account the fact that when you stack scourge, you stack barrier undefinitely. In short, the disparity between a solo scourge defensive support/personnal defense and X scourges defensive support/personnal defense is way higher than they thought. As they will only see the X scourges part, they will nerf the solo scourge in such a way that the X scourge will be tuned down to a "managable" state.The real answer would be to change barrier in such a way that they only stack if they come from the same scourge/source (which should be possible but would hurt a lot the engine of the game)As for the offense... I guess they initially underestimated the fact that everything is way more accessible without the shroud shackling the necromancer. In short, they, again, overestimated the shroud mechanism, thinking: "We never had dps issue with the OverPowered shroud, since we remove it and they lose acces to this wonderfull overpowered mechanism, they will do even lower damage..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boolah.1325 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @Brighteluden.2974 said:@Kam.4092 said:@Brighteluden.2974 said:@Exqq.7451 said:@Kam.4092 said:RIP 3k-4k of our DPSThat still puts us at 33-35k. More than acceptable. And honestly, it makes shades work as intended.Edit: Also, this will kill Power Scourge, since about 20%'ish of the dps is achieved by condi from multi shade stacking, so... :(Cool, so it'll put us below every other condi class yay...I can't wait.Those will be nerfed too. Anything above 35k is too much. Especially for Firebrand.Knowing from past experience. We'll be gut down to uselessness while the other classes receive only minor changes. I've mained necromancer since guildwars 2 launched and I'm already familiarized with the nerf necro protocol. Don't me wrong I already knew a nerf was in the works since yes we're apparently too strong in Spvp/WvW but it's also going to effect us in PVE which in reality we're about balanced when it comes to that area of the game. Ah, well was fun while it lasted .HoT all over again.. necro just nerfed to shit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoltreez.6435 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @Dadnir.5038 said:@Zoltreez.6435 said:@Substatic.6958 said:There's more btw,Scourge is an outlier with high value both defensively and offensively. I’d like to separate those options a bit more. "**Get those alts ready.What kitten Defense ?seriously i Dare a DEV to freaking come here in this Topic and freaking TELL us whats that OMG Defense he is talking about.... because thats a Load of Horse kitten right there....that post alone now pissed me off more then anything ever in this freaking game and it came from a freaking DEV.................IS ANYONE PLAYS A kitten NECRO IN THE OFFICE AT ALL ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Its like everytime the Design team tries to Make something useful for necro the balance team then comes and says NO kitten necros.....They just didn't take into account the fact that when you stack scourge, you stack barrier undefinitely. In short, the disparity between a solo scourge defensive support/personnal defense and X scourges defensive support/personnal defense is way higher than they thought. As they will only see the X scourges part, they will nerf the solo scourge in such a way that the X scourge will be tuned down to a "managable" state.This is an Ongoing Issue with Necromancers since release..... this is the reason why in any competitive setting someone needs to baby sit the Necro........Realy... necro is the Only class they "Balance" arround Stacking instead of actualy looking at the class and make it usefull Alone........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @Zoltreez.6435 said:@Dadnir.5038 said:@Zoltreez.6435 said:@Substatic.6958 said:There's more btw,Scourge is an outlier with high value both defensively and offensively. I’d like to separate those options a bit more. "**Get those alts ready.What kitten Defense ?seriously i Dare a DEV to freaking come here in this Topic and freaking TELL us whats that OMG Defense he is talking about.... because thats a Load of Horse kitten right there....that post alone now pissed me off more then anything ever in this freaking game and it came from a freaking DEV.................IS ANYONE PLAYS A kitten NECRO IN THE OFFICE AT ALL ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Its like everytime the Design team tries to Make something useful for necro the balance team then comes and says NO kitten necros.....They just didn't take into account the fact that when you stack scourge, you stack barrier undefinitely. In short, the disparity between a solo scourge defensive support/personnal defense and X scourges defensive support/personnal defense is way higher than they thought. As they will only see the X scourges part, they will nerf the solo scourge in such a way that the X scourge will be tuned down to a "managable" state.This is an Ongoing Issue with Necromancers since release..... this is the reason why in any competitive setting someone needs to baby sit the Necro........Realy... necro is the Only class they "Balance" arround Stacking instead of actualy looking at the class and make it usefull Alone...........That's it! you said it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefiris.8297 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @Substatic.6958 said:I'm slightly glad. Other than Death Knight of WOTLK, I've never seen such a bigger FOTM mmorpg class as Scourge. This is due to Scourge being incredibly powerful in all game modesIt's not in PVE, actually. In PVE, it's mid-tier right now. Multiple classes easily outdamage scourges in real fights.You should not care what nerfs do to meaningless benchmarks in a vacuum, you need to look at what these nerfs do to the actual ingame performance in real fights.The bugfix is about a 2k dps loss. Which puts it at about 36k. I long for the day when people start to understand what benchmarks actually are. And no, it's not a 2k DPS loss, it's more in the 3k+ range for the benchmark. The problem is: You lose the same amount or more in a real fight, due to the F5 reliance of our damage. Real fight dps is not the full benchmark for any class, so that 3k loss is actually pretty severe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 @Dadnir.5038 said:@Zoltreez.6435 said:@Substatic.6958 said:There's more btw,Scourge is an outlier with high value both defensively and offensively. I’d like to separate those options a bit more. "**Get those alts ready.What kitten Defense ?seriously i Dare a DEV to freaking come here in this Topic and freaking TELL us whats that OMG Defense he is talking about.... because thats a Load of Horse kitten right there....that post alone now pissed me off more then anything ever in this freaking game and it came from a freaking DEV.................IS ANYONE PLAYS A kitten NECRO IN THE OFFICE AT ALL ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Its like everytime the Design team tries to Make something useful for necro the balance team then comes and says NO kitten necros.....They just didn't take into account the fact that when you stack scourge, you stack barrier undefinitely. In short, the disparity between a solo scourge defensive support/personnal defense and X scourges defensive support/personnal defense is way higher than they thought. As they will only see the X scourges part, they will nerf the solo scourge in such a way that the X scourge will be tuned down to a "managable" state.The real answer would be to change barrier in such a way that they only stack if they come from the same scourge/source (which should be possible but would hurt a lot the engine of the game)As for the offense... I guess they initially underestimated the fact that everything is way more accessible without the shroud shackling the necromancer. In short, they, again, overestimated the shroud mechanism, thinking: "We never had dps issue with the OverPowered shroud, since we remove it and they lose acces to this wonderfull overpowered mechanism, they will do even lower damage..."Forgetting, of course, that were you to stack any profession with AoE heals, you see the exact same effective result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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