Jump to content
  • Sign Up

How do you feel about the imminent balance patch, and why?


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 207
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@"Kaburro.4712" said:Forget those "imminent patches" fix this... (fix your bots)73F871t.jpg

And there is an explanation for those +15 +15... thare was this necro that was used to win every match at this hour but lost 2 games in a row and went to sleep.The way I know matchmaker it was his job to win those 2 matches (cos he is used to, just pew pew) but he did not... (and with this comments now I will get banned for life)zFtkurO.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"phalaris.5134" said:I don't get why people complain about class imbalances.

Try to find a way around it. Skilled players stomp you no matter what and if you die to an unskilled player who uses apparently an imbalanced class, then you just deserve to get owned.

Perhaps because it's pretty disingenuous to pretend like expansion specializations don't offer much more than core classes? Like "meta" or not, the reason these (all xpac last I checked) builds exist is because they perform much better than alternatives.

It's easy to say "try to find a way around it" when you're facing something that can do more things, better, and easier. Which is pretty much how a lot of the major offenders behave.

Not to mention that it's far more difficult to figure out the weakness of something you can't get your hands on to test.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lukasz.9476 said:

@"phalaris.5134" said:I don't get why people complain about class imbalances.

Try to find a way around it. Skilled players stomp you no matter what and if you die to an unskilled player who uses apparently an imbalanced class, then you just deserve to get owned.

Perhaps because it's pretty disingenuous to pretend like expansion specializations don't offer much more than core classes? Like "meta" or not, the reason these (all xpac last I checked) builds exist is because they perform much better than alternatives.

It's easy to say "try to find a way around it" when you're facing something that can do more things, better, and easier. Which is pretty much how a lot of the major offenders behave.

Not to mention that it's far more difficult to figure out the weakness of something you can't get your hands on to test.

I totally understand your frustration. You can, with some dedication, buy with gems (if traded in for gold) game expansions if you feel that you need the newer class specialisations. I dare say that a skilled player can and will roll most players with core-classes. I feel not like that an offender is equal to someone who enjoys the game and supports the developer with some coin. You can't have everything for free, how else could you play for the first time?

Truth be told, no matter what PvP forum you look into, the topics are always the same:

1) Please Nerf2) OP classes / Balance Enquiry3) Unfair ...4) Remove this5) Paid advantages ...

It is hard to find constructive topics. Anyhow, coming back to the topic, any imminent balance patch will carry a number of changes people will complain about. I feel for the devs as this is a neverending and multi-bacterial infection.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@phalaris.5134 said:I totally understand your frustration. You can, with some dedication, buy with gems (if traded in for gold) game expansions if you feel that you need the newer class specialisations.

Now sure how you see that as a solution (aside from gold trading being something Anet disapproves of last I heard). It does nothing to address the problem. It's not a case of "you feel that you need" - there are highly placed ranked players that likewise point out balance issues with expansion specializations vastly outperforming cores.

@phalaris.5134 said:I dare say that a skilled player can and will roll most players with core-classes.Again, how is this an argument? And the same skilled player, faced with somebody running xpac spec at the same theoretical skill level, will likely lose.@phalaris.5134 said:You can't have everything for free, how else could you play for the first time?

Stop. I did pay for this game.

I should not be forced into a situation where my initial investment, that also included sPvP as part of the experience, requires now additional purchase just to avoid frustrating power imbalance.

Again, this is not something that is coming just from "lel, l2p noob" people, and other threads on these boards confirm it. Even if you want to hand-wave my personal experience and conclusions based on playing with, presumably, other people of similar enough skill level. This is not a case of core builds being misused or unpopular because xpac specs are newer, but because they are simply better at what they do. Which is why they are the "meta" in the first place.

Link to post
Share on other sites

With the insane amount of changes, the only realistic hope is that they don't somehow make the balance worse. Because balance right now, is actually not even that bad.

The real problems plaguing the PvP in this game are more or less to do with design. There are way too many builds in GW2 right now that, quite frankly, require little to no skill to play and basically build-carry people who are really just spamming their abilities in a rotation. Too many braindead builds that boil down to "Press 12345, then play passive/defensive while waiting for cooldowns". Too many builds that are centered around avoiding any counterplay rather than actually requiring people to learn anything. I come from playing Tera PvP back in its prime and that game, while flawed, required 1000x more skill and finesse than a great deal of the spam-happy builds that currently exist in GW2.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@mtnjkbm.7452 said:generally speaking, i think the balance patch doesent matter for the most part. i think it will do some good for like 10% of the pvp playerbase (p3 up to legendary players maybe also higher p2 players) to make the game a little more interesting and enjoyable for them which is good and should be the goal. (since they are at a level were tinkering with certain stats can be a deciding factor/ a gamechanger)BUT it wont matter for the rest of the pvp playerbase since it isnt the specific class balance that hinders players to climb higher ranks, its because of the awful matchmaking caused by the general empty pvp playerpool (you will experience your usual 500 - 50 stomps every 3rd or 4th match with or without a balance update, causing your rating to stagnate and/or even drop heavy), OR the lack of knowledge regarding rotation, map pressure (snowballing, overextending, plus oneing ect..)

so to sum it up, you wont climb into plat 3 or something as a gold 3 player just because the classes get a numbers update. the balance patch wont either help against the flod of bots in almost every game nowadays, so you hitting 4k instead of 3k with an autoattack will do nothing if your botfriend is running into mid to suicide for the 10th time.the only thing that has some potential to really change some things for good or revitalize pvp imo are the 2vs2 or 15vs15 gamemodes.

This is the best post I have read in the forums and strongly second it. Balance patches would do nothing if we have to soloQ in a 5v5 game mode or duoQ with 3 random players who won't coordinate with each other at all. If you hit 4k instead of 3k with your attacks or your CD is 20 seconds instead of 25 seconds, it makes no sense if your team mates don't care about any strategy and run around like bots. PvP will be revaitalized only when we will have seperate game modes of 2v2, 3v3, 5v5, 10v10 and etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@SubZero.4319 said:

@"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:. . . I'll go with a "there's a what?" option every time if you give us one, because I think people overstate how unbalanced this game is all the time . . . I'd rather see all the energy that goes into the heated balance debates that nobody can ever seem to agree with, go into something that benefits everyone on a larger and more permanent level.

I hear you,
MCH.9751
! Now, I'm pretty much still a newb to
GuildWars 2
—well, my official rank is Newb Corporal (NCpl.) Szubxero, Golf Co. 3rd Newbish Battalion, 7th Newbs Regiment (Rating N-6); my NOS (Newbish Occupational Specialty) is 37337 (Newbish Kluge Berserker). I started playing in late November and ponied up the paltry sum of $29.99 for the basic paid package. Hey! Don't look at me like that—Times are tough and I'm a starving student. xP I can say with complete confidence and utter faith that this was a wise decision, as I realized about an hour after I first started playing I was already exhibiting signs of clinical GW2 addictive disorder, and realized life was going to be painful without the game and especially it's kind-hearted, friendly, more than helpful community of the world's greatest and most talented MMORPG gamers. And it's a glorious world, this Tyria. For over a decade I was a fanatical WoW fundamentalist zealot, and I will always have a special place in my gamer's Hylian heart container for WoW, and still play from time to time. Anyway, forgive the digression.

As much of a masterpiece as GuildWars 2 is, like
all
MMORPGs, there are some bugs, some "bad apple" players (well in my albeit limited but intense experience so far, at least, I haven't met a
single
, non-friendly-as-hell
PC
(or
NPC
for that matter xP)., and other things that aren't perfect. One of these uber-ubiquitous outrages is that every time a change in the mechanics, gameplay, UI/UX or even lore department occurs, whether it benefits the masses, enfeebles us or can be seen either way, there will always be a boat packed to the gunnels with whining and complaining about it, threatening to stop playing, believing it will absolutely
RUIN
the game's future and generally give the melodrama required to win an Academy Award or Oscar their best shot to convince the developers/project team to not affect the change. This almost always fails, of course, and I'm not a hypocrite, so I will mirthfully admit I've been guilty of such obscene, un-gamer-like acts of vulgarity and child-like tantrums on many occasions, but I hardly ever get that upset over changes to MMORPGs I play any more, because I realized (a) there is, statistically speaking a very low chance of success to change it, (b) it is only allowing them to control my emotions and I don't like other people controlling me, © as dope-kitten and gorgeous this game is, or any other for that matter (and since I'm an aspiring game developer start-up entrepreneur and life-long game programming/development fanatic, that's saying a lot), it's
still
just a
game
, and finally (d) nothing is
ever
quite as bad as we fear it will be. It might be bad, but things are never as bad as they feel or appear to be, and in general have a way of working themselves out, with patience and reason. Besides, a lot of the times after the changes happened I decided (grudgingly, at first xP) that many of them I actually liked, even if I still missed the non-changed pre-updated version and wish they could leave an option for both.

Sorry for the long-winded reply. I'm just so glad someone else is sick of that cynical or pessimistic attitude and juvenile, passive-aggressive behavior and speech. Sometimes they really
do
make disgusting, kitten, numb-nutz-like changes, but not *
that
often, and it's rarely worth leaving the game. Improvise, adapt, overcome, like Clint Eastwood said, and it'll all be good. Thanks for sharing your opinion! :+1:

Very well written. I strongly agree with all that has been posted here. This is a beautiful game and for me it is a stress buster thing. I am playing for a long time and there are a lot that I am still exploring and learning. Of course I wish PvP can be more structured actually and I am hopeful that going forward the game will be improving only.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Einlanzer.1627 said:Part of me is excited, but I'm not totally convinced making 900 changes in one patch is the right way to go - numerous games have utterly killed themselves trying things of that magnitude. It's even more true without a full test strategy involving players. Seems like something an out-of-touch or amateur dev/leadership team would do.

But there is a full test strategy involving players - its just, that these tests are not done on (public) test servers, but with the delivered product on the normal servers. B)

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Tycura.1982 said:Mfw Ben votes for option 3

Feelsbadtohavenoface.jpg

@otto.5684 said:

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

Dunno man. You guys are hyping this thing, but did not give us any info to indicate how is this patch any big. This rarely ends up well.

They said 800-900 changes just for wvw and pvp

Link to post
Share on other sites

@DriV.6203 : Although I totally agree with you and your mind/ideas, I still not see why classes should have more sustain : It's because there are a high risk that a player can regenerate quickly his whole life that they have to be killed fast (but also rather because they can be killed fast).

The thing that make me really laugh is how "skilled" and "imaginative" you needed to be in order to play engineer times ago, when now, it became a spaming class.

Or also, how useless, or should I say, how destroyed... No, how OBLITERATED the trait "Deathly Chill" (DoT on chill) became, just because developpers couldn't find a balanced adjustement at time, and then considered this trait as "something cancer that should never exist and broke the game", whereas the nature of the game litteraly changed over years.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@la penombre.2415 said:@DriV.6203 : Although I totally agree with you and your mind/ideas, I still not see why classes should have more sustain : It's because there are a high risk that a player can regenerate quickly his whole life that they have to be killed fast (but also rather because they can be killed fast).

The thing that make me really laugh is how "skilled" and "imaginative" you needed to be in order to play engineer times ago, when now, it became a spaming class.

Or also, how useless, or should I say, how destroyed... No, how OBLITERATED the trait "Deathly Chill" (DoT on chill) became, just because developpers couldn't find a balanced adjustement at time, and then considered this trait as "something cancer that should never exist and broke the game", whereas the nature of the game litteraly changed over years.

Well first, damage, conditions, cc and overall statistics extremes (from complete tank to a glass cannon) need to be tunned down before sustain changes could be even addressed. With better class sustain, fights are naturally longer, meaning that there are far more oportunities to see players abilities (real skill). In longer fights, players also do mistakes and that should be a cullpit of their doom. In longer fight, spaming should not be enought and right use of the right skills should be essential. Now however, players just play with their feeling and just spam their skills rotations and hope for the best as there is just so many things that is going on, that there is literally no way to have situational awareness.Some build have more skills options (engi, firebrand, ele) which can be a blessing or a curse in a balance and in a hand of experienced player it can be a awesome tool. There was a time where DD ele with all his skills was a unkillable king on the battlefield with superb sustain. After a nerf, he became

Deathly Chill is a good example but there were many. It is just sad.
Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:I'm just looking forward to all the posts about being nerfed/changed/toned down. "My class needs that to do this", "Why did you nerf ? Without it I can't do that", "What about this other class?!", "You changed the wrong thing" aka didn't do what I personally thought was best, "My muscle memory!!!!!", "You ruined my class/build", etc.

People have gotten way to used to the elevated level of power over the past few years and the patch should be and hopefully is a massive system shock.

Bring it on! I'm ready! This community has gotten WAAAAYYY too spoiled with the current powercreep. It's ridiculous.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To put it bluntly, none of the balance patches will make a difference as long as ppl can swap characters once they are in a match. All these patches do is shake up the meta, but most of ranked players gonna switch to something that is fotm and surprise, surprise counters most of the opposite team. Have them play on a char they qued up with and see then who makes it to the leaderboard.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Macello.9276 said:To put it bluntly, none of the balance patches will make a difference as long as ppl can swap characters once they are in a match. All these patches do is shake up the meta, but most of ranked players gonna switch to something that is fotm and surprise, surprise counters most of the opposite team. Have them play on a char they qued up with and see then who makes it to the leaderboard.

Yeah, Idk why you're allowed to swap. It would be way more interesting to have to tailor your picked professions/build in that 1:30 prep time to the opposing team instead of just swapping to a hard counter profession.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Macello.9276 said:To put it bluntly, none of the balance patches will make a difference as long as ppl can swap characters once they are in a match. All these patches do is shake up the meta, but most of ranked players gonna switch to something that is fotm and surprise, surprise counters most of the opposite team. Have them play on a char they qued up with and see then who makes it to the leaderboard.

Having high-ranked people forcibly change to a random character on their account might shake up things, too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Macello.9276 said:To put it bluntly, none of the balance patches will make a difference as long as ppl can swap characters once they are in a match. All these patches do is shake up the meta, but most of ranked players gonna switch to something that is fotm and surprise, surprise counters most of the opposite team. Have them play on a char they qued up with and see then who makes it to the leaderboard.

Allowing class swaps means lowering matchmaking RNG.Otherwise you get situations like this:1) Queue as mesmer2) Have 2 thieves in opponent team3) Alt + F4

Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing some of the replies on here seem to be getting wrong is this isn't so much of a "balance" patch as it is a patch to scale back all the years of power creep since HoT that has been cancerous to this game mode. As a veteran player in terms of balance the game has improved as far as the amount of viable builds there are. Ask any of the vets and they can tell you about when there used to be like 3-5 viable builds in the whole game. Granted we didn't have elite specs so maybe I'm not right on this but the pvp builds on metabattle used to be severely limited for about a year or two before HoT was released.The problem, as other have pointed out, are all of the 100-0 "braindead" builds out there. If you don't know what I mean by 100-0 (if you do don't get triggered by me clarifying for those that don't), it means when you take somebody down from 100% health down to 0% health in under 2 seconds. Previous to all the powercreep and elite there were builds that could do this but they also were made out of glass and were pretty much one trick ponies in combat.Take for example everybody's favorite class: the Mesmer. Pre-HoT the main build was the Power Shatter Mesmer. Was it good? Yes. Could it pretty much delete you? Hell yes. Was it hard to get the burst chain down for the build? Not at all, really. Could that burst chain be countered with a little bit of skill? Absolutely. The burst combo would come at you fast but once you recognized it was coming you could avoid almost the entire thing with one dodge roll. After that all the damage the build had was put on CD and the Mesmer was left with little to do but disengage. Now compare that to the CI without CI Mirage build with all of it's evades and damage. And to think people used to call Power Shatter Core Mesmer OP. If we had only known back then what the word OP really meant.Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying there shouldn't be any powerful builds that can delete you in under 2 seconds. I am just saying for those builds the counter play should be just as easy to perform as the burst, if not easier. Like with the Power Shatter example, you could come out of stealth and put somebody in the downstate very fast and that was what made it so powerful. It's weakness was that all the skills activated were activated so quickly that the time span of one dodge roll would avoid most of the abilities used. After that, that Mesmer build had almost no real damage and no Marauder Amulet for the extra health. If you were a damage build that meant running Zerker.Also don't let this make you think everything was perfect back then either. The game had it's balance issues back then too. The thing was if your build was tanky it was just tanky. If your build had sustained damage it lacked a lot of burst damage. If it had burst damage it generally lacked sustained damage. If your build had sustained and burst damage it lacked any kind of sustain against damage or it had active defenses that required more mindfulness to use. Sure there some exceptions to that but they generally got nerfed pretty hard too. Like the old Unicorn Thief build until it got reinvented under the D/D condi Daredevil, which pretty much underlines the real problem this patch intends to fix. The fact that we have so many overtuned builds that make the game unfun to play for a lot of people because of how unforgiving so many of the builds you face can be to even a single mistake by a player.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Shadow.1345 said:Take for example everybody's favorite class: the Mesmer. Pre-HoT the main build was the Power Shatter Mesmer. Was it good? Yes. Could it pretty much delete you? Hell yes. Was it hard to get the burst chain down for the build? Not at all, really. Could that burst chain be countered with a little bit of skill? Absolutely. The burst combo would come at you fast but once you recognized it was coming you could avoid almost the entire thing with one dodge roll. After that all the damage the build had was put on CD and the Mesmer was left with little to do but disengage. Now compare that to the CI without CI Mirage build with all of it's evades and damage. And to think people used to call Power Shatter Core Mesmer OP. If we had only known back then what the word OP really meant.

Yes, before, against burst strategies, you had a great time to breathe and focus to your next way to attack your opponent once you dodged the burst. Now, most builds seems to be able to constantly burst and DPS, which mean that you can't allow yourself to do other thing than dodge or attacking very agressively.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...