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How To Beat Rangers - A Secret l2p Guide


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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Zephoid.4263"

I said literally nothing about chasing or gap closing. I am aware of how to gap close on a ranger who stands there on the same elevation as you and doesn't respond. The problem becomes when multiple elevations are involved, the ineffectiveness of blinks up cliffs (and the straight inability for some to function), or when... you know... the ranger actually responds to any of those things you mentioned. Having access to 1500 range and excellent swiftness uptime means you chose your battles, especially on those open maps. Picking high ground often denies them 1/2 of those abilities you mentioned. PBS and some slight ledge spacing means they get knocked right back down if they try to shadowstep up (unless they precast stab before shadowstepping, normally a bad idea).

Nice that you mentioned stealth as a 'counter' to rangers. Smokescale (one of the more commonly used pets) gives you access to your own stealth. I had this wonderful time trying to get outside my own spawn as a ranger sits behind a pole, stealths, and 25k mauls me out of the game. Troll build? Yeah, probably. But on our entire team, only the mirage had a viable chance vs him. Core guards get obliterated by rangers as their hp pool is tiny, judge's intervention is on a 36s cd, and they have no access to swiftness.d6vLOho.jpg

Your long winded 'explanations' are laughable series of events that happen only in theorycrafting. Most of the time you are in a 2v2, or 3v2 and a ranger comes along and 12k+ccs you from 1200 range, most likely downing you instantly. Much like DE from years ago, you have to keep an eye out and a dodge ready for them at all times. Are they beatable? Yes. There are a few hard counters to ranger, but that isn't the point. The point is that high damage long range burst has been consistently nerfed in the past. DE and DH both got their long range weapons heavily toned down. For some reason they have given ranger a pass. I think that is a mistake.

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@"Zephoid.4263"

Most everything in the game right now can come at you out of stealth or teleport in from very long range and 12k + CC you or worse.

  1. Heralds - Phase Traversal - Unrelenting Assault - Undisputed highest damage burst. It hits harder and more consistently than a Ranger. You actually can't get away from a good Herald without significant stealth uptime. No mobility in the game can shake Unrelenting Assault & Phase Traversal without stealth. Not even LOS or elevation changes. PT goes through LOS and UR goes up and down elevations once it's following.
  2. Core Guard Burst - This build's calling card is quite seriously a 1/2 second 1Burst KO.
  3. Deadeyes like Clown's build with Rifle and SP - Yeah, you die just as fast or faster than a Sic Em burst, but worst part about this is that he teleports & stealth's all over the place. Much harder to gauge where he is.
  4. Holo - Have you not seen a Static Discharge Holo toolbelt stealth in and kill you with equal speed to a Soulbeast Maul/WI combo? The only different here is that the Holo actually has twice the sustain of a glass DPS Soulbeast, reveal, and a bunch of massive AoE damage & CCs that don't even require a target to be able to use. It can also hit you through walls and slap you around just as well as it can when you're not behind a wall.
  5. Reaper - Definitely deals 12k+ strikes with Axe 2, Shroud 4 and especially Shroud 5.
  6. Scourge - Even though it sucks right now, it is still possible to spike a condi bomb with correctly timed CCs and immediately down somehow in 2s or less. I've seen this being done by top tier players plenty of times in ATs. It's very annoying actually.
  7. Power Mesmer - Do I need to explain this? Should I even take the time to explain this? This build packs all of the power of a DPS Soulbeast landing Maul and World Impact, in a much shorter burst that actually hits instantaneously if done correctly, and has a waaaaay shorter CD on the intervals of time in which it can be attempted. And then we could discuss stealth uptime with PU. Oh and, it gets super speed with every other skill it uses, and Blink. This build moves around a map almost twice as fast as any Ranger.
  8. Fire Weaver - Its calling card is being a sustainy Side Node Duelist. It's sustain is so great right now, that in high tier 1v1s, it is very rare to see a Fire Weaver ever lose or be pushed off the node. Despite this great sustain, there is plenty of footage of players like Grimjack combo killing people in 2s or less with a single CC and burn stacks.
  9. Spellbreaker - Although it has good consistent damage, it's the only class that doesn't have a realistic practical gank tactic at its disposal. Quite seriously every other class, has a means to underhandedly gank for what people like to call "1Shots"

Now rather than getting frustrated and playing blind with me, I want to hear a serious explanation as to how Ranger is any different than any of this ^

I already know the answer to that question, but I want to hear what you have to say first.

Anyone who would like to answer that question with a credible response, please by all means, let's hear it.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Zephoid.4263"

Most everything in the game right now can come at you out of stealth or teleport in from very long range and 12k + CC you or worse.

  1. Heralds - Phase Traversal - Unrelenting Assault - Undisputed highest damage burst. It hits harder and more consistently than a Ranger. You actually can't get away from a good Herald without significant stealth uptime. No mobility in the game can shake Unrelenting Assault & Phase Traversal without stealth. Not even LOS or elevation changes. PT goes through LOS and UR goes up and down elevations once it's following.
  2. Core Guard Burst - This build's calling card is quite seriously a 1/2 second 1Burst KO.
  3. Deadeyes like Clown's build with Rifle and SP - Yeah, you die just as fast or faster than a Sic Em burst, but worst part about this is that he teleports & stealth's all over the place. Much harder to gauge where he is.
  4. Holo - Have you not seen a Static Discharge Holo toolbelt stealth in and kill you with equal speed to a Soulbeast Maul/WI combo? The only different here is that the Holo actually has twice the sustain of a glass DPS Soulbeast, reveal, and a bunch of massive AoE damage & CCs that don't even require a target to be able to use. It can also hit you through walls and slap you around just as well as it can when you're not behind a wall.
  5. Reaper - Definitely deals 12k+ strikes with Axe 2, Shroud 4 and especially Shroud 5.
  6. Scourge - Even though it sucks right now, it is still possible to spike a condi bomb with correctly timed CCs and immediately down somehow in 2s or less. I've seen this being done by top tier players plenty of times in ATs. It's very annoying actually.
  7. Power Mesmer - Do I need to explain this? Should I even take the time to explain this? This build packs all of the power of a DPS Soulbeast landing Maul and World Impact, in a much shorter burst that actually hits instantaneously if done correctly, and has a waaaaay shorter CD on the intervals of time in which it can be attempted. And then we could discuss stealth uptime with PU. Oh and, it gets super speed with every other skill it uses, and Blink. This build moves around a map almost twice as fast as any Ranger.
  8. Fire Weaver - Its calling card is being a sustainy Side Node Duelist. It's sustain is so great right now, that in high tier 1v1s, it is very rare to see a Fire Weaver ever lose or be pushed off the node. Despite this great sustain, there is plenty of footage of players like Grimjack combo killing people in 2s or less with a single CC and burn stacks.
  9. Spellbreaker - Although it has good consistent damage, it's the only class that doesn't have a realistic practical gank tactic at its disposal. Quite seriously every other class, has a means to underhandedly gank for what people like to call "1Shots"

Now rather than getting frustrated and playing blind with me, I want to hear a serious explanation as to how Ranger is any different than any of this ^

I already know the answer to that question, but I want to hear what you have to say first.

Anyone who would like to answer that question with a credible response, please by all means, let's hear it.

Ranger is the only one who can do it from 1800 range while standing still ooooooohhhhh.

Also warrior can run killshot but it's memes and bad.

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What a wild read.

Non-plat rangers calling ranger OP (LOL). Top rangers calling ranger UP (I guess).Yet this is kinda legit. Ranger falls off hard at the top of the spectrum. Most people aren't there though.

So how do you balance a class around it being good vs bads, but bad vs goods? Historically, you don't. You cater to the casuals and nerf it. Which is a shame, because it seems pretty straightforward to fight most rangers. You LOS.

Again, If you die to pew pew, LOS more and dodge more efficiently. Unlike DE with s/p and rifle, ranger can't teleport through walls to kill you after you LOS.

That being said.

Gazelle is busted - needs some shaves. GS is fine, and before anything gets adjusted on it, the bug abuse should be addressed as that alone will change it's feel significantly.

People saying soulbeast needs less boon uptime are confused about soulbeast. Soulbeast with boon uptime sure as shit ain't using a lb right now - I haven't seen any. And the ones that are will be competing for a side node role that multiple classes out perform them at.

The soulbeast's ability to rez the pet with a merge is the only reason it's viable. Pet's being able to die is a shitty mechanic when the game has so much more damage now then it used to ( and it was a problem then still too).

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Zephoid.4263"

Most everything in the game right now can come at you out of stealth or teleport in from very long range and 12k + CC you or worse.

  1. Heralds - Phase Traversal - Unrelenting Assault - Undisputed highest damage burst. It hits harder and more consistently than a Ranger. You actually can't get away from a good Herald without significant stealth uptime. No mobility in the game can shake Unrelenting Assault & Phase Traversal without stealth. Not even LOS or elevation changes. PT goes through LOS and UR goes up and down elevations once it's following.

It does not follow to no-ports. Unlike the soulbeast version of the skill.

  1. Core Guard Burst - This build's calling card is quite seriously a 1/2 second 1Burst KO.

There's no way a guard can "one-shot" a WS ranger. The weakness and protection on opening strikes will negate most damage, and if you're getting hit by the entire gs5 after a 4 second wind-up on focus 4 on a class that has double stealth access, double gap closers and probably the strongest block in the game. I don't know what to tell you dude.

  1. Deadeyes like Clown's build with Rifle and SP - Yeah, you die just as fast or faster than a Sic Em burst, but worst part about this is that he teleports & stealth's all over the place. Much harder to gauge where he is.

Apart from the massive sound cue and laser pointing on you I guess.

  1. Holo - Have you not seen a Static Discharge Holo toolbelt stealth in and kill you with equal speed to a Soulbeast Maul/WI combo? The only different here is that the Holo actually has twice the sustain of a glass DPS Soulbeast, reveal, and a bunch of massive AoE damage & CCs that don't even require a target to be able to use. It can also hit you through walls and slap you around just as well as it can when you're not behind a wall.

How is it going to gapclose though? Wasn't that the whole discussion?

  1. Reaper - Definitely deals 12k+ strikes with Axe 2, Shroud 4 and especially Shroud 5.

Difference being that they have no blocks, no evades and all of reaper shroud is melee. (Or close too anyway)

  1. Scourge - Even though it sucks right now, it is still possible to spike a condi bomb with correctly timed CCs and immediately down somehow in 2s or less. I've seen this being done by top tier players plenty of times in ATs. It's very annoying actually.

Stop

  1. Power Mesmer - Do I need to explain this? Should I even take the time to explain this? This build packs all of the power of a DPS Soulbeast landing Maul and World Impact, in a much shorter burst that actually hits instantaneously if done correctly, and has a waaaaay shorter CD on the intervals of time in which it can be attempted. And then we could discuss stealth uptime with PU. Oh and, it gets super speed with every other skill it uses, and Blink. This build moves around a map almost twice as fast as any Ranger.

Yes, it's stupid. But it still needs to sit in melee to do it. It cant burst from 1800+ range.

  1. Fire Weaver - Its calling card is being a sustainy Side Node Duelist. It's sustain is so great right now, that in high tier 1v1s, it is very rare to see a Fire Weaver ever lose or be pushed off the node. Despite this great sustain, there is plenty of footage of players like Grimjack combo killing people in 2s or less with a single CC and burn stacks.

We all know this class is op, comparing it isn't doing you any favors.

  1. Spellbreaker - Although it has good consistent damage, it's the only class that doesn't have a realistic practical gank tactic at its disposal. Quite seriously every other class, has a means to underhandedly gank for what people like to call "1Shots"

Once again, you can't seriously call scourge and firrweaver "one-shot" classes. I refuse to believe it. A warrior has a lot more frontloaded damage than scourge has. A bulls charge arcing whirling combo can definitely kill people from full.

Now rather than getting frustrated and playing blind with me, I want to hear a serious explanation as to how Ranger is any different than any of this ^

None of the above classes can deal 30k+ damage under a second from 1800+ range. This is not saying that I think dps soulbeast is op, because I don't. But I do think the amount of "free sustain" given to rangers is way too much. Double invis, potentially double hard disengage if running gs + either owl or gazelle. How merging revives your pet negating any counterplay of killing the pet. Gs #4 needs a serious nerf.

I already know the answer to that question, but I want to hear what you have to say first.

Anyone who would like to answer that question with a credible response, please by all means, let's hear it.

If I ran a paladin Firebrand build, with all defensive traits and skills and had an unkillable AI following me around that could chunk you for 5-14k damage on the regular, pretty sure you wouldn't like that either.

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@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:maul is on a very short cooldown and hits for very high damage. As they say, the best defense is a good offense. It's hard to fight a ranger in melee range when you some how have to mitigate 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds while hoping you don't get gazelled or smokescale CC'ed.

The key to dealing with this that Rangers don't want you to know about, is that Maul/Wi are garbage with no quickness buff. This is one of the reasons why Rangers struggle in melee range against: Spellbreaker "lots of sudden boon removes" - All Mesmers if they are wise enough to use their boon removes when Ranger goes in close - Reapers who are wise in using their boon removes - And Thieves who are traited for boon removal.

If you have boon removes/converts, wait to use them for when the Ranger goes in close and pops quickness. Maul/Wi then becomes ridiculously easy to avoid due to slow animations. Furthermore, slow condition just absolutely neutralizes Ranger in close for the same reasons.

I don't think you're correct here. Sure, stealth or quickness makes maul way more dangerous but even without it the rate out which they can output such a high damage skill (that gives them a damage buff too no less) it is just too high. Imagine if warrior could just pop eviscerate on you every 3.5 seconds. It's highly telegraphed and rather slow but it wouldn't matter as they could just spam it between abilities more than you have defensive abilities/dodge rolls. It makes it even more troublesome when you have a AI nipping at your heels that could randomly CC you at any moment. Maul can give too much value for what little risk (low cd) you have for using it. Besides, they only really need to pressure you long enough in GS until they can just swap back to bow and kite, waiting for the next stealth/stun + maul/wi combo (which follows up a bow burst as you mentioned so you'll be down on resources).

How is maul low risk? Haven't a high resfresh rate isn't the risk. That makes zero sense. The risk is the slow animation allows you to cc and smash the ranger. As warrior. As soon as u see maul, cc, bulls charge 100 blades gg. Seriously. A slow animated attack with no quickness. That's all you if you get hit. From what it sounds like you wasn't want a ranger to use a skill once. Then if u dodge he does nothing but stand there and you win. That's literally ridiculous.

Go player ranger n l2p. See how many slow mauls you can land above gold.

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Listing gap closers that can be used to close the gap on rangers isnt a good arguement seeing as not only does ranger have a push back bow skill but can also have great gap creating skills as well like greatsword leaps, owl and more dependent on build same as other classes. Ranger like other classes falls victim to gw2 bad idea of classes that can do everything bs. I love that ranger can be great ranged OR melee but for balance purposes ranger should have been designed in a way if u build for good ranged damage etc ur melee suffers and if u build for melee ur range suffered, other classes as well bot just ranger. The holly trinity is a thing for a reason.

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@Zexanima.7851 said:

@Zexanima.7851 said:Just because you CAN beat it and it isn't the
strongest
spec out there doesn't mean it's in a good spot or that it's enjoyable to play against. They are hard as hell to pressure or lock down due to all their stealth access, movement skills, blocks ect. They have wayyyy too much CC for being a highly mobile profession with the best single target ranged weapon in the game. Dumb amount of boon access but this is just the whole state of the game right now. Ranger is one of those professions that if they are good you just can't kill them. Also, maul is on a very short cooldown and hits for very high damage. As they say, the best defense is a good offense. It's hard to fight a ranger in melee range when you some how have to mitigate 8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds while hoping you don't get gazelled or smokescale CC'ed.

All that being said, Ranger isn't the absolute hardest thing to fight. I still groan every time I have to fight one though.

8-10k hits every 3.5 seconds ?????

Please, link me which ranger builds you're fighting against that are both incredibly survivable and have enough damage to 2 tap people in 7 seconds.

Dude, I know very well how survivable and how much damage ranger can dish out.
YOU
schooled me in game some time ago on how best to play it. Ranger has great survivability as long as you use your active defenses correctly, you can't face tank like a warrior obviously. When you have a constant 25 might stacks though you can dish out some pretty mean damage even if you don't build full glass. Idk why you're acting like 8-10k on maul is a lot, that's just normal.

This is literally bullshit lol. Nothing about what you wrote is correct. No build can be tank and dish out the damage you list. Seriously. Quit your bs.

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@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741"

Hammer core guard can essentially 1 shot a dps ranger. And as long as dolyak stance isn't available, hammer ring trashes rangers.

100% hammer guard is better vs ranger than the meta core guard.

Do people play hammer core guard? Nope.

Is that the Ranger's problem? Nope.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Well here is a good question for you guys who insist that Ranger/Soulbeast is too strong:

Is it Core Ranger or is it Soulbeast that is too strong?

@bravan.3876

Was about to answer that yesterday, wrote a wall of text no one will miss by accidently closing the window before posting the comment and i am still mad :joy:From the problems is see with Ranger it is both specs having them and even Druid would probably cause that when played as lb/gs dps spec, also because they can use pof pets. As said my problem is not fighting the Ranger itself, using los and all that, even though some skills have too much dmg all in all and a 1500 range weapon should per se do less dmg than shorter range weapons just by balance logic... my problem is more the amount of downtime i cannot hurt the Ranger because he is kiting, bursting from 1500+ range (means out of range from most classes/specs), using los himself and that way more rewarding than i can use los vs him, being in stealth or blocking during he still has good pressure from pets. Then when you are about to win the fight he has insane good disengage tools, can reset hps and cds during the pet still is on the target all the time. Also Rangers and pets have too much of quickness and superspeed, often feels like playing vs 2 things being on crack/ speed, almost creating animation lags.

@Eurantien.4632 said:Non-plat rangers calling ranger OP (LOL). Top rangers calling ranger UP (I guess).Yet this is kinda legit. Ranger falls off hard at the top of the spectrum. Most people aren't there though.

First of all here are enough also high ranked ppl writing in this thread, means your assumption is per se wrong, second Ranger does not fall apart vs good players it falls apart in conquest vs other builds/ classes can fill conquest roles way better than Ranger. That doesn't say anything about how easy to play or broken some aspects of Ranger are, it has nothing to do with skill lvl or pvp rank of the ppl. As said at least a Ranger needs to kite and to use active defense tools and can't just facetank, often even outnumbered on point like a Weaver, with the current dmg specs. Still Ranger feels too much carried by pet in addition with too powercreeped defense and disengage tools atm.

What i would do first is reworking pets completely. They shouldn't be a remarkable pressure/ dmg source by themself. Some pets need hard dmg nerfs (not only gazelle also pets like owl do too much dmg), no pet needs a dmg buff. I would rework pets in a way i already said for Mirage clones with their ambush attacks. They should be more about utility and support, way less about dmg. Also they should not have hard cc like stun, knockdown etc. on their passive skills, not even taunt or fear or immob. They can have these things on f1 the Ranger needs to activate and that with a good animation and a decent casttime. On passive skills they only should have stuff like applying boons to the Ranger or teammates, applying effects on targets like chill, vulnerability, poison, blind etc. they can apply lower cc like short daze passive at max. They can do combofields. Aside from the that they can apply a little amount of dmg, but a little means a little, it should not be the main purpose, the dmg needs to be low enough that a non facetank spec isn't pressured out of los to kite the pet dmg anymore. Boonbeasts should only be able to merge with alive pets instead reviving dead pets that way, rezzing pets should stop rezzing on interrupt and not immediately restart rezzing when cc runs out. They need to wait for the downstate skill 3 coming of cd to restart rezzing and ofc need to be alive. Pet swap in downstate maybe should go too. Pets should not have access to quickness.

When pets are reworked in a way, that they barely apply dmg but more support and utility tools with lower cc like daze on passive skills, and harder cc like stun, knockdown etc and taunt/fear/ immob on the active f1 skills than we can check if that was enough already. Maybe the Ranger itself doesn't need any further dmg nerfs. Also the powercreeped amount of defense tools maybe doesn't feel that oppressive anymore when the Ranger at least has no big pressure from pets during that.If pets get more access to applying boons on Ranger maybe some traits for Rangers about self applying boons on him and pet need to be reworked that Ranger doesn't turn into a boon machine again. Means i would rework pets first and then see if that maybe was enough already. Then slowly looking for nerfs for dmg multiplier and specific high dmg skills, in particualr on weapons with overrange and for the powercreeped defense and disengage tools but only IF still needed.

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@bravan.3876@ the people saying change pet entirely.

If every class had their class mechanic removed, ranger would come out the strongest.

Pets going on a minute cooldown when they die is a shit mechanic because the pets can never fully recover if being used. They will just die over that minute again and again. Or the ranger has to keep the pet heeled. It makes no sense for a class to lose their class mechanic for 60s or more.

The need for a soulbeast to merge to revive a pet is enough of a hindersnce already. It throws off the desirable flow of merging and unmerging and swapping because the ranger has to merge with a pet they have probably already used before and has skills on cd instead of swapping. You lose out on the bonuses of swapping and lose out on access to fresh skills for a good 11 - 18s. It really messes up the flow.

Maybe that could change? Merging with a dead pet could come at a cost?

Lose x hp, or next unmerge puts soulbeast merge on a longer cool down?

@bravan.3876

I am not recognizing most names in this thread... who are these top players?

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@Eurantien.4632 said:@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741"

Hammer core guard can essentially 1 shot a dps ranger. And as long as dolyak stance isn't available, hammer ring trashes rangers.

100% hammer guard is better vs ranger than the meta core guard.

Do people play hammer core guard? Nope.

Is that the Ranger's problem? Nope.

sounds interesting might dust off my guardian for some fun.Hamme is one of those weapons most people generally dont like but on guard it could be interesting my only issue with it is that it gets a bit too gimmicky after some one sees it the first time the level of difficulty to land a combo on them after that increases considerably.Thats prob why its not used though.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524

Please make a post about how to dodge pets. By just drawing a shitty picture of a dude standing on a box. Or jumping over a short river ( a la Robin Hood men n tights) and have the pet have to go all the way around instead of just right over since their parking sucks.

People seem to forget how to not only LoS but also how to kite a PvE AI.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@Tycura.1982

Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.

Deadeyes die if you managed to get in on them and out play their stealth or prevent them from entering stealth LoS works on them and they cant easily re position without using utility and there is no pet to harrass you out of the LoS hiding spot or a skill like long bow 5 that can slightly hit behind most LoS spots.

FA Ele dies immediately the moment you catch it and its escapes are very finite with a high enough cd that they cant run forever should you make the right play. LoS works on them too because of this.

PP Thief again dies immediately the moment you catch.

The moment ranger gets caught in melee range they can pop signet of stone or block then use smoke scale for stealth access etc or smoke assault for evades. Should any CC land they have at least 2 break stuns which will instantly get them out of a tight spot with lightning reflexes or protect me. Then you have the issue of the pet conventently ccing players with non command cc attacks (which happens far too often) Between all these things ranger by far at a mechanical advantage in terms of survivability even once some one gets in close on them and they have good melee pressure almost as good as warriors with the use of GS.

The other examples you named often dont also have good melee counter pressure especially not ele and thief

Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.

Its not a matter of hating pew pew its a matter of the fact that once some one gets in on a range class they expect it not to be a warrior lol.There is not other ranged profession in this game that has = strong melee pressure and melee defense in the same build as ranger thats why people dislike it. You add soul beast options like plasma usage for a super wide boon table or pets that can cc without command for 5k yes 5k without a critical hit btw and that makes it very hated.

So you have to consider the fact that either all these people have l2p issues or that its possible the profession in some aspects need reductions.

If socurge players had of said you just need to L2P when shades instantly roasted players with no tell no one would have agreed with that statement.So telling people to just LoS is similar to saying just dont stand on a shade back then when you had 2-3 scourge man teams and it was nearly impossible to avoid shades with almost no indicators for where they were going to pop up.

There is a difference in being skilled and just using a profession that is mechanically superior to others.Just because it can lose to a few niche things does not make it balanced. Thats more or less what people are trying to tell you.

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@Eurantien.4632 said:@bravan.3876@ the people saying change pet entirely.

If every class had their class mechanic removed, ranger would come out the strongest.

Pets going on a minute cooldown when they die is a kitten mechanic because the pets can never fully recover if being used. They will just die over that minute again and again. Or the ranger has to keep the pet heeled. It makes no sense for a class to lose their class mechanic for 60s or more.

The need for a soulbeast to merge to revive a pet is enough of a hindersnce already. It throws off the desirable flow of merging and unmerging and swapping because the ranger has to merge with a pet they have probably already used before and has skills on cd instead of swapping. You lose out on the bonuses of swapping and lose out on access to fresh skills for a good 11 - 18s. It really messes up the flow.

Maybe that could change? Merging with a dead pet could come at a cost?

Lose x hp, or next unmerge puts soulbeast merge on a longer cool down?

Who said remove pets, remove class mechanic? I said rework into something more active less npc passives carried. Just as more active condi clone ambush skills, as i suggested, is far away from removing Mirage mechanic, its just a rework into a more fun because more active and more skilled class mechanic. Npc skills the npcs do without the player doing anything for it never should be a remarkable pressure/ dmg aspect. That counts for Minionmaster Necro over the old Phantasmspam Mesmer Builds to old Turret Engi. I am not for making pets useless i am for just changing their main purpose into a more utility and support role than a passive dmg/ pressure role. That is far away from removing the class mechanic. And sry but pets have insane hp, a Ranger who forgot to care for his pet so that it dies just misplayed horrible, what is that even for an argument? And getting punished for that missplay is ofc part of the class mechanic because class mechanics are allowed to have punishments for missplays. They need to have.

@bravan.3876

I am not recognizing most names in this thread... who are these top players?

That is probably because they are from EU and not NA. You were talking about non plat players. In this thread i indeed only know 2 plat3/ legend player (at least when trying), as there is angellovefrederik and myself. But over the whole forum you could find a lot of EU plat3+ players saying that Ranger has some broken stuff needs to get looked into. In general arguing about rank is kind of cringe, better base your arguments on balance logic and game/class knowledge than some unnecessary arrogant wannabe pro semantics.

@Eurantien.4632 said:@Trevor Boyer.6524

Please make a post about how to dodge pets. By just drawing a kitten picture of a dude standing on a box. Or jumping over a short river ( a la Robin Hood men n tights) and have the pet have to go all the way around instead of just right over since their parking sucks.

People seem to forget how to not only LoS but also how to kite a PvE AI.

That is exactly the point, the pet can bait out too many defensive cooldowns by its own even during the Ranger is kiting/ los-ing/ stealthed/ blocking etc himself and can't be hurt. When i los i los my own skills 100% on most classes, when the Ranger los he still can apply passive dmg from pets.On most places you can kite the pets the Ranger will get you with bow or axe, barely any places on PvP maps include higher spots the pets can't reach AND los from the Rangerskills. Means kiting the pet mostly leads into leaving the save spot the Ranger cannot pewpew you, leaving los to not die to pets if you are not on a facetank spec. Kiting a pet often means leaving los, simple as it is.

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@bravan.3876

Are you for real?

They won't rework pets entirely. If they did they'd make it so all pet skills are activated by ranger. Then ranger would really be OP but they have repeatedly said they won't do that for casuals. And they have said they are only doing number changes. Do some pets need a nerf (like gazelle?) yes...

But despite some overperforming numbers, pets underperform, you seem hellbent on letting pets hit you without kiting, using z-axis, or understanding why the ranger even has a pet. Of course it's there to make you get out of LoS... that's the whole fucking point!

As for pets dying, even tanky pets can get insta nuked in teamfights... Im not sure what you're getting at here... 1v1 pets shouldn't die. You're right. But some of the glassier ones can like birds against good players who can burn it after you swap. Also fire weaver can solo nuke a pet.

Im also concerned about your categorizing of top players, your boy angel uses sic em and signet of the hunt? EU must be garbage if they're letting this dude get to plat 3/legend.

And you also seem upset about my credentials... so I am not sure what you're looking for...

You're on like every forum thread with clearly limited vision...

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.

Deadeyes die if you managed to get in on them and out play their stealth or prevent them from entering stealth LoS works on them and they cant easily re position without using utility and there is no pet to harrass you out of the LoS hiding spot or a skill like long bow 5 that can slightly hit behind most LoS spots.

FA Ele dies immediately the moment you catch it and its escapes are very finite with a high enough cd that they cant run forever should you make the right play. LoS works on them too because of this.

PP Thief again dies immediately the moment you catch.

The moment ranger gets caught in melee range they can pop signet of stone or block then use smoke scale for stealth access etc or smoke assault for evades. Should any CC land they have at least 2 break stuns which will instantly get them out of a tight spot with lightning reflexes or protect me. Then you have the issue of the pet conventently ccing players with non command cc attacks (which happens far too often) Between all these things ranger by far at a mechanical advantage in terms of survivability even once some one gets in close on them and they have good melee pressure almost as good as warriors with the use of GS.

The other examples you named often dont also have good melee counter pressure especially not ele and thief

Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.

Its not a matter of hating pew pew its a matter of the fact that once some one gets in on a range class they expect it not to be a warrior lol.There is not other ranged profession in this game that has = strong melee pressure and melee defense in the same build as ranger thats why people dislike it. You add soul beast options like plasma usage for a super wide boon table or pets that can cc without command for 5k yes 5k without a critical hit btw and that makes it very hated.

So you have to consider the fact that either all these people have l2p issues or that its possible the profession in some aspects need reductions.

If socurge players had of said you just need to L2P when shades instantly roasted players with no tell no one would have agreed with that statement.So telling people to just LoS is similar to saying just dont stand on a shade back then when you had 2-3 scourge man teams and it was nearly impossible to avoid shades with almost no indicators for where they were going to pop up.

There is a difference in being skilled and just using a profession that is mechanically superior to others.Just because it can lose to a few niche things does not make it balanced. Thats more or less what people are trying to tell you.

Well the best or one of the best necros in pvp managed to kill sindrener 3 times in a match, so anything's possible.(refering to holtz)

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@Eurantien.4632 said:@"bravan.3876"

Are you for real?

They won't rework pets entirely. If they did they'd make it so all pet skills are activated by ranger. Then ranger would really be OP but they have repeatedly said they won't do that for casuals. And they have said they are only doing number changes. Do some pets need a nerf (like gazelle?) yes...

But despite some overperforming numbers, pets underperform, you seem hellbent on letting pets hit you without kiting, using z-axis, or understanding why the ranger even has a pet. Of course it's there to make you get out of LoS... that's the whole kitten point!

As for pets dying, even tanky pets can get insta nuked in teamfights... Im not sure what you're getting at here... 1v1 pets shouldn't die. You're right. But some of the glassier ones can like birds against good players who can burn it after you swap. Also fire weaver can solo nuke a pet.

Im also concerned about your categorizing of top players, your boy angel uses sic em and signet of the hunt? EU must be garbage if they're letting this dude get to plat 3/legend.

And you also seem upset about my credentials... so I am not sure what you're looking for...

You're on like every forum thread with clearly limited vision...

Call my "visions" (what a big word for some simple balance suggestions rofl) limited as much as you want, i think i clearly have more ideas and i am less biased towards classes than most ppl in this forum, incl you. Also i am always open for criticism and ppl proving ideas of me bad and make better ones. But make criticism/ changes to my ideas based on logic and knowledge pls, because some wannabe pro ego kitten will only make me not taking you serious at all. Means discussing on that low lvl will be a waste of time for both of us and we can stop right now.

The rework for pets i suggested doesn't need such a major change as making the Ranger needs to press all pet skills by his own. This suggestion is not even new and was already suggested by a lot of old (mostly not playing anymore) pro/esl players. With other words it is not even my idea, just something i hella agree to. Not surprised 99,9% of the wannabe pro ppl left in this game with usually more ego than skill cannot follow simple balance logics anymore (sry for coming down to your conversation lvl, my bad, but i am triggered right now). Are you afraid of playing a spec less carried by passives? Scared of playing a more active and for that more fun spec? Ok then condi clone ambushes are also supposed to pressure targets out of los during the Mirage can play defensive, why nerf/rework anything in this game then? Lets be all classes powercreeped and passsive carried as they are. As someone gets bored by playing the same class for too long i prefer to have a game all classes are fun, interactive, active and skillful to play, i like playing Ranger but i clearly feel carried when doing so. I also have no problem to fight most Rangers (even the very few who don't suck as a player) but it is not fun to play against and it is too carried by passive pet stuff during having powercreeped defensive and disengage tools during the Ranger still can pressure you passively by pet.

I am not so sure that a balance patch like the planned one, including 300-900 changes, has no place for such general mechanic reworks. It would make sense and i will not stop suggesting stuff that makes sense in my view until someone proved me wrong. I am not suggesting any overnerf of Rangers, i have no interest in another overnerfed class, i have interest to get another class fun and active to play, forcing me to use brain and develop skill during playing it, i want to win fights with my Ranger when i play better than my opponent and i want Ranger to be useful in conquest, so maybe calm your kitten. But just a little dmg nerf on gazelle will not do the job.

Btw Ranger pets are not supposed to work like a passive dmg sourge you can send into teamfights for ages and hope it survives in heavy aoe, you have a button for calling your pet back and forward, and send it on different targets. If you just let the pet do his thing passively and let it die in aoe than you play it wrong.

Yes Weaver is even more broken, even more braindead even more anything, sure can kill the pet even solo, mentioning this doesn't help anyhting in this discussion. You can hold your pet alive a bit longer by using the call back button at specific times, for example when Weaver use the stance or is in fire att. and most likely about to fireburst. That 99.9 % of Rangers do not rly use the call back button often enough doesn't mean it is supposed to be like that.

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@"bravan.3876"

I mentioned weaver to show you how a single class can kill any pet in a 1v1 accidentally. Pets due die in team fights sometimes (as I said they get instanuked by aoe) but it's fine, you clearly don't understand how pet management in game actually works so I'll drop that.

Your desired change to give pets CC on their F2 (you said F1 but I'll assume that was a mistake because thatd be insanely good) won't help. Even if it is pets CC'ing for 0 dmg people will still rage. Pets already have tells. They also have scripted use of their skills...

if we give the ranger more control of pet CC there will be tells that the ranger can cancel to bait dodges... that aren't scripted. You're arguing for ranger buffs...

You don't understand how ranger is played at higher levels.

I was of the opinion the "pro players" liked the idea more that pets should scale off of ranger stats. Ranger does dps so does pet. But it's squishy. Ranger is tanky so are pets, so tanky ranger can't nuke people with a pet...

But hey, that's a rework that won't happen. Because those aren't number tweaks.

Only current action is for people to learn to play and to shave the gazelle.

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@Eurantien.4632 said:@bravan.3876

I mentioned weaver to show you how a single class can kill any pet in a 1v1 accidentally. Pets due die in team fights sometimes (as I said they get instanuked by aoe) but it's fine, you clearly don't understand how pet management in game actually works so I'll drop that.

Your desired change to give pets CC on their F2 (you said F1 but I'll assume that was a mistake because thatd be insanely good) won't help. Even if it is pets CC'ing for 0 dmg people will still rage. Pets already have tells. They also have scripted use of their skills...

if we give the ranger more control of pet CC there will be tells that the ranger can cancel to bait dodges... that aren't scripted. You're arguing for ranger buffs...

You don't understand how ranger is played at higher levels.

No you don't understand what i am locking for, i don't care if something is in general a buff, if it just is more skillbased and more active after that. I don't think Rangers need overall that much nerfs, they just need a more active , less carried by pet playstyle.

I have no clue atm what the default keybind is for the one pet skill the Ranger needs to press himself (the button you activate the smokefield for example, is it f1 or f2? i am not sure, i binded them different). I don't care, about what ppl still rage, if they are wrong and it is just a l2p issue, they can rage as long as they want. As long as the Ranger has to dictate the pet and has to press a button to time a cc on his own then a pet can have hard cc, in fact pets have them on passives right now what is way worse, scripted or not at least after the first activation it is hard to stay up to date during avoiding one button oneshot dmg from the Ranger. So when ppl still rage about Pets hard cc when it clearly is done by an active Ranger command (Ranger press a button and actively times the cc from the pet) than it is a l2p issue and we can ignore the rage. It will clearly be more balanced and more skilful than it is now.

Not that i care when Ranger gets bait potential on active skills (still better than no tell on not active skills) but the f1 or f2 skill never had a tell on the Ranger, only the pet has the animation on his skill. That doesn't need to change at all. I have the feeling you just didn't rly understand my suggestions tbh.

I don't know my pets barely die in teamfights when i don't brainafk let them run by their own in active mode, but that might be because all EU plat 3+ player just suck...

@Eurantien.4632 said:@bravan.3876

I was of the opinion the "pro players" liked the idea more that pets should scale off of ranger stats. Ranger does dps so does pet. But it's squishy. Ranger is tanky so are pets, so tanky ranger can't nuke people with a pet...

But hey, that's a rework that won't happen. Because those aren't number tweaks.

Yes that was another suggestion true. Makes sense too but when you rework pets away from being a heavy sourge of dmg anyway it is not needed anymore. Also even on squishy Rangers, pets would need their hp to not instant die to like everything, means this type of rework would only work in one direction and also would still not solve the problem of a too passive carry by pets with too much dmg and passive hard cc on Ranger builds without high def stats.

It is possible to make the mechanic changes also in PvE and just compensate the Ranger with higher dmg numberes on his own skills in PvE when needed. The only mechanic changes that are totally impossible are changes that would hurt PvE balance in a way can't be solved by number tweaks in PvE (if i understood Ben, CmC right). With other words, mechanical changes which are good for PvP/ WvW and do not hurt PvE (at least problems there can be solved by number tweaks) are totally on the table.

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@Eurantien.4632 said:@bravan.3876

Are you for real?

They won't rework pets entirely. If they did they'd make it so all pet skills are activated by ranger. Then ranger would really be OP but they have repeatedly said they won't do that for casuals. And they have said they are only doing number changes. Do some pets need a nerf (like gazelle?) yes...

But despite some overperforming numbers, pets underperform, you seem hellbent on letting pets hit you without kiting, using z-axis, or understanding why the ranger even has a pet. Of course it's there to make you get out of LoS... that's the whole kitten point!

As for pets dying, even tanky pets can get insta nuked in teamfights... Im not sure what you're getting at here... 1v1 pets shouldn't die. You're right. But some of the glassier ones can like birds against good players who can burn it after you swap. Also fire weaver can solo nuke a pet.

Im also concerned about your categorizing of top players, your boy angel uses sic em and signet of the hunt? EU must be garbage if they're letting this dude get to plat 3/legend.

And you also seem upset about my credentials... so I am not sure what you're looking for...

You're on like every forum thread with clearly limited vision...

No, I'm not using sic'em not signet of the hunt. I'm not using ranger at all, which you would've realised of you bothered to read any of my posts. A OWP sicem rapid fire is more than enough to break 30k even on demo.That's not to say that I can't identify the obvious outliers. I got / get to legend on core guard / fb. Some hammer war thrown in there for good memes.

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