How To Beat Rangers - A Secret l2p Guide

shadowpass.4236 · January 9, 2020

@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Eurantien.4632 said:@shadowpass.4236
I'd add charge merge, hilt bash if you didn't.
And i would add dodge to mesmers

shows how much people know about mesmer.chaos vortex/barrage is mesmers ambush ( dodge )the fact that he decided to list F2 as a must dodge is another story, lol

So do you enjoy eating Blind + Confusion from Cry of Frustrations? That might explain why you lose your 1v1s.

Trevor Boyer.6524 · January 9, 2020

@bravan.3876 said:
@"Eurantien.4632" said:Dude thinks mesmer clones are more interactive than pets. You don't know what you're talking about lol.
Link me a guide on how to set up a keyboard input thing on screen and I'll stream and you can see how often pet skills are used. I'm like ducking Mozart on my pet skills trying to control that god awful AI. No input? Lol

The clones itself are not, but they don't do anything alone, the autoattack dmg is nearly zero

Woah woah woah woah woah woah https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infinite_Horizon Condi Mirage is and always has been the best 1v1 duelist in the game at high skill caps due to their ability to kite and play 100% defensively while letting AI spam kill the opponent. There is not a single Ranger build in the game that could even begin to approach the idea in playstyle that it could kite 100% defensively and let its AI pet handle even the worst player by itself.

Anyway, I think people are overlooking the meat of the problem here. Ranger pets have been fine for years, even before power creep. Actually, Ranger pets have received nothing but nerfs since the days of Core. So what is making everyone complain about Rangers all of the sudden? It's not the pets my dudes, it's too much access to Quickness and too much +Conc & Boon Duration to elongate it. <- This same reason is why Maul is all of a sudden being complained about.

Due to this Quickness access & uptime that has been greatly bolstered game wide on every class, attacks & animations that were once "High risk high reward, hard to hit with" are now consistently being used with the speed & accuracy of general auto attack swings from 4 years ago. And 4+ years ago, when you popped a Quickness skill, you had some seriously small time frame to utilize that in conjunction with your Maul or a Ranger pet CC or w/e slow animation you're wanting to land on the class you're using. But NOW, Quickness is just this thing that you have 50% of the time or greater that you're engaging combat, making all of those slow animations and things like pet AI CCs, land much more easily than they ever have in the past.

The problem that everyone is complaining about is not a problem with Ranger mechanics directly. It is a problem with game wide power creep to Quickness access & uptime.

^ And that's no salty defense, I'm being 100% serious about that.

Trevor Boyer.6524 · January 9, 2020

@megilandil.7506 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Tycura.1982"
Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.
Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.

simply because people hate being destroyed in safemode range, and that is agravated by the fact that all safemode ranged classes have good evasive maniobres to keep the safe distance and/or a decent kit for close combat, if ranged classes were doomed if enemy can reach hand to hand people will hate less pew pew

Yeah yeah, but people seem to be forgetting how much reduction in CD Arenanet keeps adding to teleport & stealth skills lately, as well as direct buffs in uptime to stealth in general across all classes.

I mean this is a thing here, it's not like "being at 1500 range" is safe. If you guys really believe that, you've clearly not played at even a plat 1+ level in ranked and have certainly never gone against Team USA like caliber teams in ATs, where being 1500 range from something is essentially the same as standing next to it.

ZDragon.3046 · January 9, 2020

@Axl.8924 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Axl.8924 said:
@ZDragon.3046 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Tycura.1982"
Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.

Deadeyes die if you managed to get in on them and out play their stealth or prevent them from entering stealth LoS works on them and they cant easily re position without using utility and there is no pet to harrass you out of the LoS hiding spot or a skill like long bow 5 that can slightly hit behind most LoS spots.

FA Ele dies immediately the moment you catch it and its escapes are very finite with a high enough cd that they cant run forever should you make the right play. LoS works on them too because of this.

PP Thief again dies immediately the moment you catch.

The moment ranger gets caught in melee range they can pop signet of stone or block then use smoke scale for stealth access etc or smoke assault for evades. Should any CC land they have at least 2 break stuns which will instantly get them out of a tight spot with lightning reflexes or protect me. Then you have the issue of the pet conventently ccing players with non command cc attacks (which happens far too often) Between all these things ranger by far at a mechanical advantage in terms of survivability even once some one gets in close on them and they have good melee pressure almost as good as warriors with the use of GS.

The other examples you named often dont also have good melee counter pressure especially not ele and thief

Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.

Its not a matter of hating pew pew its a matter of the fact that once some one gets in on a range class they expect it not to be a warrior lol.There is not other ranged profession in this game that has = strong melee pressure and melee defense in the same build as ranger thats why people dislike it. You add soul beast options like plasma usage for a super wide boon table or pets that can cc without command for 5k yes 5k without a critical hit btw and that makes it very hated.

So you have to consider the fact that either all these people have l2p issues or that its possible the profession in some aspects need reductions.

If socurge players had of said you just need to L2P when shades instantly roasted players with no tell no one would have agreed with that statement.So telling people to just LoS is similar to saying just dont stand on a shade back then when you had 2-3 scourge man teams and it was nearly impossible to avoid shades with almost no indicators for where they were going to pop up.

There is a difference in being skilled and just using a profession that is mechanically superior to others.Just because it can lose to a few niche things does not make it balanced. Thats more or less what people are trying to tell you.

Well the best or one of the best necros in pvp managed to kill sindrener 3 times in a match, so anything's possible.(refering to holtz)

Of course its possible for necro to win any match up just like its possible for warrior or ranger or any other profession but just because that does not make something balanced lol. I am a firm believer of the ideal that "anything is 'technically' possible" There could be a wide number of reasons why the profession with the advantage wins or the one with the disadvantage wins (how ever you want to put that). Sadly if you balance for the best only anyone below the best will see the game as being badly balanced if you balance for new players anyone with a decent number of hours will see it as badly balanced. ITs gotta be on the middle/high ground but not the top percentile. The majority of the games players are not top percentiles lol. Sadly being top player on x profession does not mean the be all end all of how something should / should not be balanced.

True i was pointing out that he got lucky got multiple kill shots.

Even if the best necro he still is at a massive disadvantage remember that herald? holy cow the mobility and damage of herald is nuts, whats worse is if you play vs the best thief(sindrener) its impossible to nearly impossible which is ridiculous). You should never be so hard countered that you have no chance. I think thief needs to lose something.

Necro has kind of be held back by its core ideals and thats kept it from getting too far out of hand "until scourge" but basically everything before scourge is not as crazy as what the others can do from a mechanical perspective. Even the biggest feature of reaper which was chill got culled down to the point that its not a real factor in most matchups. Anets idea is that it must be slow in mobility, damage, and potential ramp but at the same time its suppose to be slow to die because of shroud soaking damage. But when damage does 20k in a few seconds well... soaking does not come close to equalling what just damage evasion or blocking produces in sustain.

Even the minor changes like before HoT where chill stopped working on leaps and another gap closers that are not blinks etc hurt necros a good bit. that said i think having counters is fine but only if everyone has roughly the same number of counters and even then yes it shouldn't mean instant stomp.

IF something counters me to the point I didn't get the chance to retaliate or play i have issue with that. Aka being one shot from stealth for example regardless of who does it.

It will be interesting to see how things change.

Its why i think warrs and thiefs need to be nerfed along with most other classes. Seeing how herald played in that vid it was pretty insane ports with cc and dmg combined WOW.

Well to be fair necro has a few things it needs in reductions too but they are very niche things and or things that should have been done correctly the first time instead of just bandaid fixing much like the Reapers Onslaught buff that was just a hard bandaid to reapers slow attack speed problem. Rather than adjusting the cast times on base shroud to make the speed compeitive but not quickness level they just slapped quickness on RO and pigeon toed everyone into it. If we see less boons we will no doubt see some reductions too boon corrupts as well as skills that just do a lot of things in one use like scepter 3 that tool tip is pretty bloated an i wont be surprised if it gets some meaty reductions.

Warriors mostly need might synergy looked into and making some things more clear visually.Thief needs something i dont really know what to say though i know people complaint about pistol whip but i mean thief is almost like necro if something is strong / viable people will not like it. Thief unfortunately will always be a pain in the butt by their design of allowing them to use skills rapidly with no cd so i think no matter how they nerf them someone will aways find away to make them so annoying that people will always want them nerfed.

Sure As long as we get back since we have a lot of silly over hard counters that leave us in a unfun position, so if that can be improved that would be great, even if it means further nerfs to dmg for SPVP only with reaper so long as everyone else also gets nerf if they hit too hard, or boon corrupt if its a problem which melts folks too fast, but i'm guessing boons will also need huge nerfs too.

The silly amount of hard counters necromancer has at a core level extend all the way up through its elites which is a shame. This is kind of what i mean when I say necro is aggressively balanced based on core game launch values because unlike other professions all it ever gained was more aoe pressure and better damage with the 2nd being something everyone got along with lots of other tools.

I know if boonspam gets huge nerfs and boon corrupt doesn't get at least a little hit, its going to be a problem.

To be honest corrupts are in such a odd spot i feel like nerfing boons too much will auto nerf corrupts there wont be a need for them if boons get toned down to the point you rarely get good converts. Right now you can rip boons and they are immediately replaced or cleared.

I don't think there is too much to nerf for necro since a lot of stuff is already alright in terms of where it is comparitely maybe cept scourge which was just plain nerfed and in a odd place because it was nerfed improperly.

I hope scourge sees a rework in the big changes coming that lets it actually do something i know alot of people wont like a scourge rework but i would rather rework it than keep it stuck in a form they cant really balance.

Leonidrex.5649 · January 9, 2020

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Eurantien.4632 said:@shadowpass.4236
I'd add charge merge, hilt bash if you didn't.
And i would add dodge to mesmers

shows how much people know about mesmer.chaos vortex/barrage is mesmers ambush ( dodge )the fact that he decided to list F2 as a must dodge is another story, lol

So do you enjoy eating Blind + Confusion from Cry of Frustrations? That might explain why you lose your 1v1s.

confusion is useless. and since you said it yourself, you not dodging 1s daze. why would i dodge 1,5s blind lol.exp as a MUST dode XD

edit, assuming someone even takes this garbage blind trait.

Eurantien.4632 · January 9, 2020

@Trevor Boyer.6524

Pets have always had quickness on pet swap and from QZ

That's not the problem.

bravan.3876 · January 9, 2020

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@"Eurantien.4632" said:Dude thinks mesmer clones are more interactive than pets. You don't know what you're talking about lol.
Link me a guide on how to set up a keyboard input thing on screen and I'll stream and you can see how often pet skills are used. I'm like ducking Mozart on my pet skills trying to control that god awful AI. No input? Lol

The clones itself are not, but they don't do anything alone, the autoattack dmg is nearly zero

Woah woah woah woah woah woah

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infinite_Horizon

Condi Mirage is and always has been the best 1v1 duelist in the game at high skill caps due to their ability to kite and play 100% defensively while letting AI spam kill the opponent. There is not a single Ranger build in the game that could even begin to approach the idea in playstyle that it could kite 100% defensively and let its AI pet handle even the worst player by itself

You didn't read my whole post it seems, go back and try again. Clones do nothing by themself not even ambushes, means without the player pressing a button. IH is an active mechanic but as said only as long as dmg is not that high, that playing/ dodging only defensive is rewarding enough. If you have problems to understand Mirage mechanics you can find mesmer threads and balance suggestions threads (the one from valluns last video for example) where i explain it more detailed. Also the clones are way slower than the pet, if youlos them (and you don't need to find higher ground to do that) they need ages to reposition themself and start autoattacking/ ambushing again. But as said i made the comparision because it is both about npc passive dmg and i just suggest the same for Ranger pets than i did for Condimirage: Put the dmg in players hand and make passive npc skills mostly about utility and support not about rawr dmg. And until now, on one of you could rly explain why you think that is a bad idea. I think in terms of adding skill ceiling/ floor and in terms of balance logic it is a good idea (because obviously passive npc skills shouldn't have high impact by their own). If Ranger dmg is overall too low then we can compensate with more dmg on Rangers own skills.

Anyway, I think people are overlooking the meat of the problem here. Ranger pets have been fine for years, even before power creep. Actually, Ranger pets have received nothing but nerfs since the days of Core. So what is making everyone complain about Rangers all of the sudden? It's not the pets my dudes, it's too much access to Quickness and too much +Conc & Boon Duration to elongate it. <- This same reason is why Maul is all of a sudden being complained about.

Rangers Pets were always a problem and always hated, my suggestion is almost as old as the game just like the suggestion to make pet stats correlating with the Rangers stats.

@shadowpass.4236 When counting dodges/defskills i have to use vs Rangers compared to other classes (lets take Warrior for example) you forget that other classes have to use their mechanics during they are in the fight themself, a Warrior cannot hit me with his f1 burstskill during kiting and resetting cds and hp in safety. Also without checking it i am sure you missed to count the 4-6k autoattacks from bow (at least on glassy specs) or that you have to dodge twice vs bow 2 to avoid the whole skill or still get hit by 3k+ and stuff like that, during you probably like to dodge every 2k skill from other classes (let me exaggerate a bit here too xD). As said at least on a glassy spec even pets autoattacks and for sure Rangers autoattacks are kite or dodge worthy on some weapons (lb).

Will i ever get an answer where the problem with my idea is to make pets more about support and utility then rawr dmg and compensate the Ranger with dmg on his own skills if needed? I am still waiting...

Zexanima.7851 · January 9, 2020

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@megilandil.7506 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Tycura.1982"
Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.
Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.

simply because people hate being destroyed in safemode range, and that is agravated by the fact that all safemode ranged classes have good evasive maniobres to keep the safe distance and/or a decent kit for close combat, if ranged classes were doomed if enemy can reach hand to hand people will hate less pew pew

Yeah yeah, but people seem to be forgetting how much reduction in CD Arenanet keeps adding to teleport & stealth skills lately, as well as direct buffs in uptime to stealth in general across all classes.

I mean this is a thing here, it's not like "being at 1500 range" is safe. If you guys really believe that, you've clearly not played at even a plat 1+ level in ranked and have certainly never gone against Team USA like caliber teams in ATs, where being 1500 range from something is essentially the same as standing next to it.

That's true for professions that have those things, not every profession does though. I don't understand why people use the higher level of play to compare balance against, that's the minority of players. It would be more accurate to compare balance to the middle of the normal curve where more players are. If this was a highly competitive e-sport? Sure, balance it for that scene but GW2 isn't. It's marketed as a casual game and should be balanced against the majority, who are in that casual range. Would it make higher level player a mess? Probs, but most people don't really care because they are dealing with that mess themselves.

So what's my point. It may be true when you play ATs and plat3+ games that things like rev and thief are able to stick to you like glue and make your range feel worthless. What about the more common average schmuck who has to face a ranger every match and try to over come that range on professions that don't have teleports? Most players dont have a great knowledge of all the professions and are not super mechanically adept so something like ranger comes out looking like it has a "safe 1500 range".

shadowpass.4236 · January 9, 2020

@Zexanima.7851 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@megilandil.7506 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Tycura.1982"
Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.
Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.

simply because people hate being destroyed in safemode range, and that is agravated by the fact that all safemode ranged classes have good evasive maniobres to keep the safe distance and/or a decent kit for close combat, if ranged classes were doomed if enemy can reach hand to hand people will hate less pew pew

Yeah yeah, but people seem to be forgetting how much reduction in CD Arenanet keeps adding to teleport & stealth skills lately, as well as direct buffs in uptime to stealth in general across all classes.

I mean this is a thing here, it's not like "being at 1500 range" is safe. If you guys really believe that, you've clearly not played at even a plat 1+ level in ranked and have certainly never gone against Team USA like caliber teams in ATs, where being 1500 range from something is essentially the same as standing next to it.

That's true for professions that have those things, not every profession does though. I don't understand why people use the higher level of play to compare balance against, that's the minority of players. It would be more accurate to compare balance to the middle of the normal curve where more players are. If this was a highly competitive e-sport? Sure, balance it for that scene but GW2 isn't. It's marketed as a casual game and should be balanced against the majority, who are in that casual range. Would it make higher level player a mess? Probs, but most people don't really care because they are dealing with that mess themselves.

So what's my point. It may be true when you play ATs and plat3+ games that things like rev and thief are able to stick to you like glue and make your range feel worthless. What about the more common average schmuck who has to face a ranger every match and try to over come that range on professions that don't have teleports? Most players dont have a great knowledge of all the professions and are not super mechanically adept so something like ranger comes out looking like it has a "safe 1500 range".

How "super mechanically adept" do you need to be to walk behind a wall when a ranger comes shooting from max range?

Like it's not even that hard, and it's not like the arrows go through terrain.

In games with different classes/champions, there are going to be characters that are stronger at lower tiers, ones that are stronger at middle tiers, and ones that are stronger at higher tiers. If ranger is good at lower tiers, but weaker at higher tiers, that means the class is balanced and that there are ways to counterplay it. If you nerf the class so that it's bad at lower tiers, and still bad at higher tiers... well... then that's bad class design and bad for the game lol

If your justification for nerfing rangers is that lower tier players have trouble holding down W to get behind an object, that will just make it even worse against decent ones.

shadowpass.4236 · January 9, 2020

@bravan.3876 said:@"shadowpass.4236" When counting dodges/defskills i have to use vs Rangers compared to other classes (lets take Warrior for example) you forget that other classes have to use their mechanics during they are in the fight themself, a Warrior cannot hit me with his f1 burstskill during kiting and retteting cds and hp in safety. Also without checking it i am sure you missed to count the 4-6k autoattacks from bow (at least on glassy specs) or that you have to dodge twice vs bow 2 to avoid the whole skill or still get hit by 3k+ and stuff like that durign you probably like to dodge every 2k skill from other classes (let me exaggerate a bit here too xD). As said at least on a glassy spec even pets autoattacks and for sure Rangers autoattacks are kite or dodge worthy on some weapons (lb).
Will i ever get an answer where the problem with my idea is to make pets more about support and utility then rawr dmg and compensate the Ranger with dmg on his own skills if needed? I am still waiting...

Umm....

Nah, that's completely wrong. A warrior can pretty easily turn around and Arcing Slice/Breaching Strike you if you're chasing after him. Counterpressure is an extremely important part of surviving.

Also... 4-6k longbow autoattacks? If you're sitting there, EATING max ranged auto attacks from a full glass cannon ranger, you definitely shouldn't be anywhere close to plat. I'm not exaggerating anything. I've provided videos showing realistic damage outputs for the meta builds as well as showing which skills are actually important to avoid. For someone who has been dueling since release on every class, I have a pretty decent sense on how to fight/play everything. On glassy specs, pet autos don't do any more damage than usual.

Yeah go ahead and buff ranger damage some more. It's not like you guys were complaining about "8-10k Mauls every 3.5 seconds" or anything like that. /s

shadowpass.4236 · January 9, 2020

@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Eurantien.4632 said:@shadowpass.4236
I'd add charge merge, hilt bash if you didn't.
And i would add dodge to mesmers

shows how much people know about mesmer.chaos vortex/barrage is mesmers ambush ( dodge )the fact that he decided to list F2 as a must dodge is another story, lol

So do you enjoy eating Blind + Confusion from Cry of Frustrations? That might explain why you lose your 1v1s.

confusion is useless. and since you said it yourself, you not dodging 1s daze. why would i dodge 1,5s blind lol.exp as a MUST dode XD

edit, assuming someone even takes this garbage blind trait.

The blind lasts 2.5s on the meta build which is a fairly long time to go without being able to land a skill.

Confusion is useless? lel

BadMed.3846 · January 9, 2020

@Zephoid.4263 said:

Most of the time you are in a 2v2, or 3v2 and a ranger comes along and 12k+ccs you from 1200 range, most likely downing you instantly. Much like DE from years ago, you have to keep an eye out and a dodge ready for them at all times.Just like we keep our nose out to sniff the mass invis Mesmer who's ready to unleash their full burst in the middle of a fight? What's wrong with ranger ding so with plenty of time for a player to realise and react?

bravan.3876 · January 9, 2020

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@bravan.3876 said:@shadowpass.4236 When counting dodges/defskills i have to use vs Rangers compared to other classes (lets take Warrior for example) you forget that other classes have to use their mechanics during they are in the fight themself, a Warrior cannot hit me with his f1 burstskill during kiting and retteting cds and hp in safety. Also without checking it i am sure you missed to count the 4-6k autoattacks from bow (at least on glassy specs) or that you have to dodge twice vs bow 2 to avoid the whole skill or still get hit by 3k+ and stuff like that durign you probably like to dodge every 2k skill from other classes (let me exaggerate a bit here too xD). As said at least on a glassy spec even pets autoattacks and for sure Rangers autoattacks are kite or dodge worthy on some weapons (lb).
Will i ever get an answer where the problem with my idea is to make pets more about support and utility then rawr dmg and compensate the Ranger with dmg on his own skills if needed? I am still waiting...

Umm....

Nah, that's completely wrong. A warrior can pretty easily turn around and Arcing Slice/Breaching Strike you if you're chasing after him. Counterpressure is an extremely important part of surviving.

Also... 4-6k longbow autoattacks? If you're sitting there, EATING max ranged auto attacks from a full glass cannon ranger, you definitely shouldn't be anywhere close to plat. I'm not exaggerating anything. I've provided videos showing realistic damage outputs for the meta builds as well as showing which skills are actually important to avoid. For someone who has been dueling since release on every class, I have a pretty decent sense on how to fight/play everything. On glassy specs, pet autos don't do any more damage than usual.

Yeah go ahead and buff ranger damage some more. It's not like you guys were complaining about "8-10k Mauls every 3.5 seconds" or anything like that. /s

Not when Ranger is on glassy spec but when the target from the Ranger is on a glassy spec i said (then pet autoattacks are kite worthy). I also didn't say i eat them (Ranger lb autoattacks), i said a glassy spec has to avoid them in any way and you don't always have a pillar or wall near you when a Ranger starts attacking you from the other side of the map often from higher ground on a safe spot. Read correct pls.What has a Warrior who has to turn around and counterburst to do with a pet passively still attacking by his own for high impact during the Ranger kites around half of the planet to reset cds and hp? A Warrior can not do that at all.

Also don't mix up posts i never complained about specific skills and even said i only would rework pets first and then see if Ranger still has too much dmg or even too less and then adjust the dmg from Ranger itself in the needed direction.

Still no answer to my question... :disappointed:

Leonidrex.5649 · January 9, 2020

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Eurantien.4632 said:@shadowpass.4236
I'd add charge merge, hilt bash if you didn't.
And i would add dodge to mesmers

shows how much people know about mesmer.chaos vortex/barrage is mesmers ambush ( dodge )the fact that he decided to list F2 as a must dodge is another story, lol

So do you enjoy eating Blind + Confusion from Cry of Frustrations? That might explain why you lose your 1v1s.

confusion is useless. and since you said it yourself, you not dodging 1s daze. why would i dodge 1,5s blind lol.exp as a MUST dode XD

edit, assuming someone even takes this garbage blind trait.

The blind lasts 2.5s on the meta build which is a fairly long time to go without being able to land a skill.

Confusion is useless? lel

Yes, blind is 100% must dodge, soon you will say that you have to dodge it 4 times, once for each clone lol.and thats assuming that someone took the shitty trait to blind in the firstplace, taking antysynergytraits 2k20 kekW

shadowpass.4236 · January 9, 2020

@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Eurantien.4632 said:@shadowpass.4236
I'd add charge merge, hilt bash if you didn't.
And i would add dodge to mesmers

shows how much people know about mesmer.chaos vortex/barrage is mesmers ambush ( dodge )the fact that he decided to list F2 as a must dodge is another story, lol

So do you enjoy eating Blind + Confusion from Cry of Frustrations? That might explain why you lose your 1v1s.

confusion is useless. and since you said it yourself, you not dodging 1s daze. why would i dodge 1,5s blind lol.exp as a MUST dode XD

edit, assuming someone even takes this garbage blind trait.

The blind lasts 2.5s on the meta build which is a fairly long time to go without being able to land a skill.

Confusion is useless? lel

Yes, blind is 100% must dodge, soon you will say that you have to dodge it 4 times, once for each clone lol.and thats assuming that someone took the kitten trait to blind in the firstplace, taking antysynergytraits 2k20 kekW

So you don't dodge Shadow Shot?

You stand inside Black Powders and Smoke Screens?

Blind is one of the most impactful conditions you can use against classes that rely on single-hit attacks.

shadowpass.4236 · January 9, 2020

@bravan.3876 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@bravan.3876 said:@shadowpass.4236 When counting dodges/defskills i have to use vs Rangers compared to other classes (lets take Warrior for example) you forget that other classes have to use their mechanics during they are in the fight themself, a Warrior cannot hit me with his f1 burstskill during kiting and retteting cds and hp in safety. Also without checking it i am sure you missed to count the 4-6k autoattacks from bow (at least on glassy specs) or that you have to dodge twice vs bow 2 to avoid the whole skill or still get hit by 3k+ and stuff like that durign you probably like to dodge every 2k skill from other classes (let me exaggerate a bit here too xD). As said at least on a glassy spec even pets autoattacks and for sure Rangers autoattacks are kite or dodge worthy on some weapons (lb).
Will i ever get an answer where the problem with my idea is to make pets more about support and utility then rawr dmg and compensate the Ranger with dmg on his own skills if needed? I am still waiting...

Umm....

Nah, that's completely wrong. A warrior can pretty easily turn around and Arcing Slice/Breaching Strike you if you're chasing after him. Counterpressure is an extremely important part of surviving.

Also... 4-6k longbow autoattacks? If you're sitting there, EATING max ranged auto attacks from a full glass cannon ranger, you definitely shouldn't be anywhere close to plat. I'm not exaggerating anything. I've provided videos showing realistic damage outputs for the meta builds as well as showing which skills are actually important to avoid. For someone who has been dueling since release on every class, I have a pretty decent sense on how to fight/play everything. On glassy specs, pet autos don't do any more damage than usual.

Yeah go ahead and buff ranger damage some more. It's not like you guys were complaining about "8-10k Mauls every 3.5 seconds" or anything like that. /s

Not when Ranger is on glassy spec but when the target from the Ranger is on a glassy spec i said (then pet autoattacks are kite worthy). I also didn't say i eat them (Ranger lb autoattacks), i said a glassy spec has to avoid them in any way and you don't always have a pillar or wall near you when a Ranger starts attacking you from the other side of the map often from higher ground on a safe spot. Read correct pls.What has a Warrior who has to turn around and counterburst to do with a pet passively still attacking by his own for high impact during the Ranger kites around half of the planet to reset cds and hp? A Warrior can not do that at all.

Also don't mix up posts i never complained about specific skills and even said i only would rework pets first and then see if Ranger still has too much dmg or even too less and then adjust the dmg from Ranger itself in the needed direction.

Still no answer to my question... :disappointed:

Yeah sure, give me more control over my now utility pets and move the damage to me. I'd love that. :)

bravan.3876 · January 9, 2020

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@bravan.3876 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@bravan.3876 said:@shadowpass.4236 When counting dodges/defskills i have to use vs Rangers compared to other classes (lets take Warrior for example) you forget that other classes have to use their mechanics during they are in the fight themself, a Warrior cannot hit me with his f1 burstskill during kiting and retteting cds and hp in safety. Also without checking it i am sure you missed to count the 4-6k autoattacks from bow (at least on glassy specs) or that you have to dodge twice vs bow 2 to avoid the whole skill or still get hit by 3k+ and stuff like that durign you probably like to dodge every 2k skill from other classes (let me exaggerate a bit here too xD). As said at least on a glassy spec even pets autoattacks and for sure Rangers autoattacks are kite or dodge worthy on some weapons (lb).
Will i ever get an answer where the problem with my idea is to make pets more about support and utility then rawr dmg and compensate the Ranger with dmg on his own skills if needed? I am still waiting...

Umm....

Nah, that's completely wrong. A warrior can pretty easily turn around and Arcing Slice/Breaching Strike you if you're chasing after him. Counterpressure is an extremely important part of surviving.

Also... 4-6k longbow autoattacks? If you're sitting there, EATING max ranged auto attacks from a full glass cannon ranger, you definitely shouldn't be anywhere close to plat. I'm not exaggerating anything. I've provided videos showing realistic damage outputs for the meta builds as well as showing which skills are actually important to avoid. For someone who has been dueling since release on every class, I have a pretty decent sense on how to fight/play everything. On glassy specs, pet autos don't do any more damage than usual.

Yeah go ahead and buff ranger damage some more. It's not like you guys were complaining about "8-10k Mauls every 3.5 seconds" or anything like that. /s

Not when Ranger is on glassy spec but when the target from the Ranger is on a glassy spec i said (then pet autoattacks are kite worthy). I also didn't say i eat them (Ranger lb autoattacks), i said a glassy spec has to avoid them in any way and you don't always have a pillar or wall near you when a Ranger starts attacking you from the other side of the map often from higher ground on a safe spot. Read correct pls.What has a Warrior who has to turn around and counterburst to do with a pet passively still attacking by his own for high impact during the Ranger kites around half of the planet to reset cds and hp? A Warrior can not do that at all.

Also don't mix up posts i never complained about specific skills and even said i only would rework pets first and then see if Ranger still has too much dmg or even too less and then adjust the dmg from Ranger itself in the needed direction.

Still no answer to my question... :disappointed:

Yeah sure, give me more control over my now utility pets and move the damage to me. I'd love that. :)

Great we found a solution then, but don't get that wrong, you will get dmg in compensation ONLY when needed (including all nerfs to powercreep on other classes i doubt that it will be needed though, because as said atm i miss that Ranger has opportunity costs in dmg in his own skills as compensation for his high impact pets).I only say the pet rework should happen first and then adjust stuff that is needed later (like if pets now give more boons to Ranger and teammates you might need to rework some traits/skills Ranger also gets boons from, so that Ranger doesn't turn into a boonmachine again). You will not have more control over the pet than before actually, you will only have more control over your hard cc but for that you need to time them yourself. Thats a fair trade off. All skills that are passive on pet atm will stay passive, the difference is just, that the passive skills don't have high impact/dmg anymore and for that give utility or support tools instead. Everything with high impact you have to coordinate and time by yourself, as it should be. The pet can't do a lot of work for you during you kite to reset cds and hp completely away from the target and still apply passive pressure by the pet.

Leonidrex.5649 · January 9, 2020

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Leonidrex.5649 said:
@Eurantien.4632 said:@shadowpass.4236
I'd add charge merge, hilt bash if you didn't.
And i would add dodge to mesmers

shows how much people know about mesmer.chaos vortex/barrage is mesmers ambush ( dodge )the fact that he decided to list F2 as a must dodge is another story, lol

So do you enjoy eating Blind + Confusion from Cry of Frustrations? That might explain why you lose your 1v1s.

confusion is useless. and since you said it yourself, you not dodging 1s daze. why would i dodge 1,5s blind lol.exp as a MUST dode XD

edit, assuming someone even takes this garbage blind trait.

The blind lasts 2.5s on the meta build which is a fairly long time to go without being able to land a skill.

Confusion is useless? lel

Yes, blind is 100% must dodge, soon you will say that you have to dodge it 4 times, once for each clone lol.and thats assuming that someone took the kitten trait to blind in the firstplace, taking antysynergytraits 2k20 kekW

So you don't dodge Shadow Shot?

You stand inside Black Powders and Smoke Screens?

Blind is one of the most impactful conditions you can use against classes that rely on single-hit attacks.

Me : papercut is not a big dealYou : so you cut yourself ?Shadow shot deals more damage and it is a teleport, yes I will use evade to dodge shadowshot if I dont want thief to teleport to me.No I will not use dodge to leave black power.

Zexanima.7851 · January 9, 2020

@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Zexanima.7851 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@megilandil.7506 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Tycura.1982"
Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.
Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.

simply because people hate being destroyed in safemode range, and that is agravated by the fact that all safemode ranged classes have good evasive maniobres to keep the safe distance and/or a decent kit for close combat, if ranged classes were doomed if enemy can reach hand to hand people will hate less pew pew

Yeah yeah, but people seem to be forgetting how much reduction in CD Arenanet keeps adding to teleport & stealth skills lately, as well as direct buffs in uptime to stealth in general across all classes.

I mean this is a thing here, it's not like "being at 1500 range" is safe. If you guys really believe that, you've clearly not played at even a plat 1+ level in ranked and have certainly never gone against Team USA like caliber teams in ATs, where being 1500 range from something is essentially the same as standing next to it.

That's true for professions that have those things, not every profession does though. I don't understand why people use the higher level of play to compare balance against, that's the minority of players. It would be more accurate to compare balance to the middle of the normal curve where more players are. If this was a highly competitive e-sport? Sure, balance it for that scene but GW2 isn't. It's marketed as a casual game and should be balanced against the majority, who are in that casual range. Would it make higher level player a mess? Probs, but most people don't really care because they are dealing with that mess themselves.

So what's my point. It may be true when you play ATs and plat3+ games that things like rev and thief are able to stick to you like glue and make your range feel worthless. What about the more common average schmuck who has to face a ranger every match and try to over come that range on professions that don't have teleports? Most players dont have a great knowledge of all the professions and are not super mechanically adept so something like ranger comes out looking like it has a "safe 1500 range".

How "super mechanically adept" do you need to be to walk behind a wall when a ranger comes shooting from max range?

Like it's not even that hard, and it's not like the arrows go through terrain.

In games with different classes/champions, there are going to be characters that are stronger at lower tiers, ones that are stronger at middle tiers, and ones that are stronger at higher tiers. If ranger is good at lower tiers, but weaker at higher tiers, that means the class is balanced and that there

are

ways to counterplay it. If you nerf the class so that it's bad at lower tiers, and still bad at higher tiers... well... then that's bad class design

and

bad for the game lol

If your justification for nerfing rangers is that lower tier players have trouble holding down W to get behind an object, that will just make it even worse against decent ones.

My justification for nerfing "rangers" is that almost everything in this game is overtuned and needs to be dialed back. I've repeated this time and time again in similar discussions. You've been coming at me like I'm saying "loL RaNgEr oP nerF" but I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying it's good but needs to be adjusted like most everything else and you're fighting me on it like I'm tryin' ta murder ya boi. Yeah, it's stronger in middle tiers than higher ones but that's where most the players are. Every spec should be balanced towards middle tiers. This isn't some MOBA where I have 150 different characters to choose from. There are 9 professions, 27 if we're being generous and counting elite specs as their own. A lot of people only play the one profession, maining is common in this game. If every profession isn't balanced towards the average player then certain things are going to start looking broken or OP to the majority of people. You can't just say "It sucks in hire tiers" and drop it. I'm not saying nerf ranger from orbit and make it useless, just address the problems people are having with it. To the average player, Ranger has too much of everything. Ranged pressure, melee pressure, self sustain, mobility. It needs to sacrifice something. Like. Every. Other. Profession. Needs. To. Things don't have to be either useless or broken, there can be a middle ground. Certain things will always be meta, but it is possible to reach a point were everything can be playable and not stuck in a hard meta. If ranger receives no changes because "its not good in high tiers" then when the balance patch hits it'll be really OP and then insert "here we go again" meme

Also, do you look down your nose at people because they have issues fighting ranger? It's attitudes like "lol it ez, git gud" that drive people away from the PvP game mode. "Just LoS" is NOT a solution for these people, or anyone really. If you LoS a ranger they can still hit you with volley and pet to try to drive you out of cover. Then if that doesn't work they swap to GS and chase your butt down. You act like a rangers only choice is to stand at 1500 range and auto/spam rapid fire but you know there is more too it than that. Even if there are counter plays to it, if they are not accessible to the majority of people, then they might as well not exist at all.

shadowpass.4236 · January 9, 2020

@Zexanima.7851 said:
@shadowpass.4236 said:
@Zexanima.7851 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
@megilandil.7506 said:
@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:@"Tycura.1982"
Eeeeh I dunno man. Rangers can do it, Deadeyes do same thing, FA Ele/Temp/Weaver does same thing, PP Thieves do same thing.
Players in GW2 just hate pew pew, end of story. Doesn't matter if it's OP or UP. People hate ranged attack mechanics in this game that go any further than about 600 range.