Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Firebrands, the most enigmatic class. Do they need a nerf?


Recommended Posts

I’ve watched two 1 vs 1 finals in NA & EU recently and both were won by Firebrands.There is something odd about this class that I can’t put a finger on.It looks very balanced but thrashes almost every other class in a 1 on 1.And yet there seems to be very few complains against them.What are your thoughts on this enigmatic class?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 109
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I've discussed the problems with firebrand in other places but here is a possible solution that like currently: Remove the cooldowns on all tome abilities (not their activation), Loremaster is now baseline (passive persists even on CD), and remove the ability to swap weapons.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know what forums you're reading, but they're complained about everywhere.

FB definitely needs some tuning down.

That said, you shouldn't read too much in to the 1v1 tournaments. They don't really correlate to 5v5 Conquest PvP. You see some really weird builds in the 1v1 tournaments, alot of them specifically built to play around the 1v1 Map Mechanic, that just don't work in 5v5.

Harrier FB is an example of that. Very good in 1v1, but just not worth it in 5v5 where running around with 11k HP means you're a free kill to any team with more than 70 collective IQ, and where the Conquest format gives more advantage to high-mobility builds. And I don't know if you watched tonight's tournament closely, but the FB was losing the semifinal, and only won by getting a lucky knock-back into the green expanding death-zone. If it was a regular PvP map, the weaver would've won.

Also, how many tournaments have there been in the last 6 months? It's, like, 50 or more. And you're going to cherry-pick just 2 of them? How many of them weren't won by FBs? If you run that many tournaments, obviously FB will win some of them.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8JaWC5aA1J8U3uYB-hwhmA/videos

The previous 3 finals were...... warrior vs ranger, weaver vs weaver, and weaver vs (power) mirage. Does this mean that, if you'd asked this question last week, it would have been "why is core ranger so much better than FB"? Or does it actually mean that 1v1 tournaments are variable as fuck and more dependent on which players turn up than what build is best? The 3 before that...... ranger vs FB (ranger won), weaver vs weaver, deadeye vs ranger.

People have such short attention spans :/

Maybe they need to do a season where everyone is locked to the same build as everyone else, solo-queue only, and then when the top 50 is shockingly still all the exact same people as before, everyone will finally accept that if they got beat, it's because of themselves, and we can all get on with our lives.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering how Firebrand has to my knowledge, been on literally every single winning MAT team all throughout Path Of Fire and has absolutely defined PvP this expansion even more so than Scourge at this point I don't see how anyone can say it DOESN'T need nerfs. No other support comes remotely close to what Firebrand does.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Considering how Firebrand has to my knowledge, been on literally every single winning MAT team all throughout Path Of Fire

I mean..... demonstrably false.

To my knowledge. At least one Firebrand on the winning team is basically a given. If there were months where the winning MAT didn't have a Firebrand that I am not aware of, we are talking single digits compared to the multiple dozens of MATS where it was the case.

In any case, if it's so easily demonstrable, do it. Demonstrate it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Considering how Firebrand has to my knowledge, been on literally every single winning MAT team all throughout Path Of Fire

I mean..... demonstrably false.

To my knowledge. At least one Firebrand on the winning team is basically a given. If there were months where the winning MAT didn't have a Firebrand that I am not aware of, we are talking single digits compared to the multiple dozens of MATS where it was the case.

In any case, if it's so easily demonstrable, do it. Demonstrate it.

Let me cast back deep in to the mists of time, to December 2019

Link to post
Share on other sites

The easiest thing to ask yourself is what doesn't FB have access to?

Stealth.Superspeed if you want to nitpick.Barrier.

Edit: I do find it funny that they ban mirage but don't touch a build that literally has almost everything in the game and stomps everything else, then again NA is N/A.

Link to post
Share on other sites

nerf firebrand really hard, it carried scourge as much as scourge was carrying firebrand, in fact, firebrand was keeping scourge alive because it has infinite sustain and it can be really strong offensive-defensive, also nerf guardian burn guard is op.

Remember trap dragonhunter? how was that not ok but this with firebrand being so oppressive is?

This stiffens competitive support builds such as scourge heal ele druid spec for ranger even mesmers.

While we are at it maybe druids can be given something back too to be a competitive support a small QOL buff somewhere to be useful as support in SPVP.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Considering how Firebrand has to my knowledge, been on literally every single winning MAT team all throughout Path Of Fire

I mean..... demonstrably false.

To my knowledge. At least one Firebrand on the winning team is basically a given. If there were months where the winning MAT didn't have a Firebrand that I am not aware of, we are talking single digits compared to the multiple dozens of MATS where it was the case.

In any case, if it's so easily demonstrable, do it. Demonstrate it.

Let me cast back deep in to the mists of time, to December 2019

Fair enough. That must be EU as I'm pretty sure both NA finalists had Firebrand. And the EU team with the Firebrand were still in striking distance of taking the win. And just a month before that double Firebrand won NA while Firebrand Double Rev won EU.

My point still stands. Firebrand is is immense dominant, the only viable support, has absolutely defined PvP during Path of Fire more so than any other build, has had plenty of top 10 representation in ranked EU and NA, and the number of wins without a Firebrand for MATs is in the single digits compared to the multiple dozens of wins.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Both variants of symbol brand(but especially Menders) are really low IQ degenerate gameplay. I hated seeing spammy uninteractive playstyles on condi mirage and I hate seeing it on my own class as well. Core guard was infinitely better in terms of design and promoting overall healthy gameplay but for some reason was unnecessarily nerfed multiple times(sword 2 nerf, agility sigil, lesser smite condition) while symbols were tremendously buffed through the July 16th Zeal changes for some reason.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Symbolic_Powershould be reduced from 30% back to 10%.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mantra_of_Truthshould have the blind or weakness removed. For an instant cast, low CD skill with a count, it does way too much.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Writ_of_Persistence is also ridiculous. It's healing effect can stack with multiple symbols, it has a duration increase, and a radius increase. The healing needs to be reduced by 50% or more OR have the stacking effect removed. People seriously underestimate how much healing potential this trait has when paired with healing power.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Considering how Firebrand has to my knowledge, been on literally every single winning MAT team all throughout Path Of Fire

I mean..... demonstrably false.

To my knowledge. At least one Firebrand on the winning team is basically a given. If there were months where the winning MAT didn't have a Firebrand that I am not aware of, we are talking single digits compared to the multiple dozens of MATS where it was the case.

In any case, if it's so easily demonstrable, do it. Demonstrate it.

Let me cast back deep in to the mists of time, to December 2019

Fair enough. That must be EU as I'm pretty sure both NA finalists had Firebrand. And the EU team with the Firebrand were still in striking distance of taking the win. And just a month before that double Firebrand won NA while Firebrand Double Rev won EU.

My point still stands. Firebrand is is immense dominant, the only viable support, has absolutely defined PvP during Path of Fire more so than any other build, has had plenty of top 10 representation in ranked EU and NA, and the number of wins without a Firebrand for MATs is in the single digits compared to the multiple dozens of wins.

That's all true.

But I'm wondering what at all it has to do with the thread topic.

This was in reference to its 1v1 tournament performance.

Support in a 5-man composition is an entirely different matter.

I would also add that FB is barely worth taking as a support right now, if it gets taken down to the level of Tempest/Druid, you won't see more variety in supports. You just won't see any supports. Period.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@apharma.3741 said:The easiest thing to ask yourself is what doesn't FB have access to?

Stealth.Superspeed if you want to nitpick.Barrier.

Edit: I do find it funny that they ban mirage but don't touch a build that literally has almost everything in the game and stomps everything else, then again NA is N/A.

EvadesUntargeted teleportsDashesBoon Removal/CorruptChanneled blocksActionable Invulnerability

This list is getting quite long isn't it?

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@"apharma.3741" said:The easiest thing to ask yourself is what doesn't FB have access to?

Stealth.Superspeed if you want to nitpick.Barrier.

Edit: I do find it funny that they ban mirage but don't touch a build that literally has almost everything in the game and stomps everything else, then again NA is N/A.

EvadesUntargeted teleportsDashesBoon Removal/CorruptChanneled blocksActionable Invulnerability

This list is getting quite long isn't it?

I said what doesn't FB have access to?

EvadesUntargeted teleports - You're nit pickingDashes - Teleport is as good but also have a leap on the GS if they want it - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leap_of_FaithBoon Removal/CorruptChanneled blocks - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ShelterActionable Invulnerability - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Renewed_Focus

The list is actually quite short

Link to post
Share on other sites

@apharma.3741 said:

@apharma.3741 said:The easiest thing to ask yourself is what doesn't FB have access to?

Stealth.Superspeed if you want to nitpick.Barrier.

Edit: I do find it funny that they ban mirage but don't touch a build that literally has almost everything in the game and stomps everything else, then again NA is N/A.

EvadesUntargeted teleportsDashesBoon Removal/CorruptChanneled blocksActionable Invulnerability

This list is getting quite long isn't it?

I said what doesn't FB have
access
to?

EvadesUntargeted teleports - You're nit pickingDashes - Teleport is as good but also have a leap on the GS if they want it -
Boon Removal/CorruptChanneled blocks -
Actionable Invulnerability -

The list is actually quite short

Renewed Focus is not "actionable invulnerability". You cannot take actions during it.

Meta FB uses greatsword and Shelter does it? That's the build everyone's complaining about yeah? This is like putting Revive as a Spellbreaker capability because Warbanner.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Considering how Firebrand has to my knowledge, been on literally every single winning MAT team all throughout Path Of Fire

I mean..... demonstrably false.

To my knowledge. At least one Firebrand on the winning team is basically a given. If there were months where the winning MAT didn't have a Firebrand that I am not aware of, we are talking single digits compared to the multiple dozens of MATS where it was the case.

In any case, if it's so easily demonstrable, do it. Demonstrate it.

Let me cast back deep in to the mists of time, to December 2019

Fair enough. That must be EU as I'm pretty sure both NA finalists had Firebrand. And the EU team with the Firebrand were still in striking distance of taking the win. And just a month before that double Firebrand won NA while Firebrand Double Rev won EU.

My point still stands. Firebrand is is immense dominant, the only viable support, has absolutely defined PvP during Path of Fire more so than any other build, has had plenty of top 10 representation in ranked EU and NA, and the number of wins without a Firebrand for MATs is in the single digits compared to the multiple dozens of wins.

That's all true.

But I'm wondering what at all it has to do with the thread topic.

This was in reference to its 1v1 tournament performance.

Support in a 5-man composition is an entirely different matter.

I would also add that FB is barely worth taking as a support right now, if it gets taken down to the level of Tempest/Druid, you won't see more variety in supports. You just won't see any supports. Period.

1v1 capacity IS important because one of the main roles in conquest is side noding which is all about a build's capacity to 1v1 and 1vX.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Considering how Firebrand has to my knowledge, been on literally every single winning MAT team all throughout Path Of Fire

I mean..... demonstrably false.

To my knowledge. At least one Firebrand on the winning team is basically a given. If there were months where the winning MAT didn't have a Firebrand that I am not aware of, we are talking single digits compared to the multiple dozens of MATS where it was the case.

In any case, if it's so easily demonstrable, do it. Demonstrate it.

Let me cast back deep in to the mists of time, to December 2019

Fair enough. That must be EU as I'm pretty sure both NA finalists had Firebrand. And the EU team with the Firebrand were still in striking distance of taking the win. And just a month before that double Firebrand won NA while Firebrand Double Rev won EU.

My point still stands. Firebrand is is immense dominant, the only viable support, has absolutely defined PvP during Path of Fire more so than any other build, has had plenty of top 10 representation in ranked EU and NA, and the number of wins without a Firebrand for MATs is in the single digits compared to the multiple dozens of wins.

That's all true.

But I'm wondering what at all it has to do with the thread topic.

This was in reference to its 1v1 tournament performance.

Support in a 5-man composition is an entirely different matter.

I would also add that FB is barely worth taking as a support right now, if it gets taken down to the level of Tempest/Druid, you won't see more variety in supports. You just won't see any supports. Period.

1v1 capacity IS important because one of the main roles in conquest is side noding which is all about a build's capacity to 1v1 and 1vX.

Agreed.

So why are you bringing up its support role in a discussion about 1v1?

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@apharma.3741 said:The easiest thing to ask yourself is what doesn't FB have access to?

Stealth.Superspeed if you want to nitpick.Barrier.

Edit: I do find it funny that they ban mirage but don't touch a build that literally has almost everything in the game and stomps everything else, then again NA is N/A.

EvadesUntargeted teleportsDashesBoon Removal/CorruptChanneled blocksActionable Invulnerability

This list is getting quite long isn't it?

I said what doesn't FB have
access
to?

EvadesUntargeted teleports - You're nit pickingDashes - Teleport is as good but also have a leap on the GS if they want it -
Boon Removal/CorruptChanneled blocks -
Actionable Invulnerability -

The list is actually quite short

Renewed Focus is not "actionable invulnerability". You cannot take actions during it.

Meta FB uses greatsword and Shelter does it? That's the build everyone's complaining about yeah? This is like putting Revive as a Spellbreaker capability because Warbanner.

Again, I said access to and we're nitpicking at "actionable invulnerability" only mesmer (edit) and ele have "actionable invulnerability". You can easily run shelter if you think it will give more value. GS if you want to run it you can but there's nothing it gives that sword doesn't because teleport is better than a leap and dashes are usually worse than teleports.

Stealth.Barrier.Evades on skills.Boon Removal/Corrupt.

Not a long list.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Considering how Firebrand has to my knowledge, been on literally every single winning MAT team all throughout Path Of Fire

I mean..... demonstrably false.

To my knowledge. At least one Firebrand on the winning team is basically a given. If there were months where the winning MAT didn't have a Firebrand that I am not aware of, we are talking single digits compared to the multiple dozens of MATS where it was the case.

In any case, if it's so easily demonstrable, do it. Demonstrate it.

Let me cast back deep in to the mists of time, to December 2019

Fair enough. That must be EU as I'm pretty sure both NA finalists had Firebrand. And the EU team with the Firebrand were still in striking distance of taking the win. And just a month before that double Firebrand won NA while Firebrand Double Rev won EU.

My point still stands. Firebrand is is immense dominant, the only viable support, has absolutely defined PvP during Path of Fire more so than any other build, has had plenty of top 10 representation in ranked EU and NA, and the number of wins without a Firebrand for MATs is in the single digits compared to the multiple dozens of wins.

That's all true.

But I'm wondering what at all it has to do with the thread topic.

This was in reference to its 1v1 tournament performance.

Support in a 5-man composition is an entirely different matter.

I would also add that FB is barely worth taking as a support right now, if it gets taken down to the level of Tempest/Druid, you won't see more variety in supports. You just won't see any supports. Period.

1v1 capacity IS important because one of the main roles in conquest is side noding which is all about a build's capacity to 1v1 and 1vX.

Agreed.

So why are you bringing up its support role in a discussion about 1v1?

Both support and the sidenode Firebrand is very strong. It was just a month ago double Firebrand won an MAT. Right now Weaver is the favored side noders both EU and NA but once that build gets nerfed it'll be the sidenode Firebrand that replaces it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@mortrialus.3062 said:Considering how Firebrand has to my knowledge, been on literally every single winning MAT team all throughout Path Of Fire

I mean..... demonstrably false.

To my knowledge. At least one Firebrand on the winning team is basically a given. If there were months where the winning MAT didn't have a Firebrand that I am not aware of, we are talking single digits compared to the multiple dozens of MATS where it was the case.

In any case, if it's so easily demonstrable, do it. Demonstrate it.

Let me cast back deep in to the mists of time, to December 2019

Fair enough. That must be EU as I'm pretty sure both NA finalists had Firebrand. And the EU team with the Firebrand were still in striking distance of taking the win. And just a month before that double Firebrand won NA while Firebrand Double Rev won EU.

My point still stands. Firebrand is is immense dominant, the only viable support, has absolutely defined PvP during Path of Fire more so than any other build, has had plenty of top 10 representation in ranked EU and NA, and the number of wins without a Firebrand for MATs is in the single digits compared to the multiple dozens of wins.

That's all true.

But I'm wondering what at all it has to do with the thread topic.

This was in reference to its 1v1 tournament performance.

Support in a 5-man composition is an entirely different matter.

I would also add that FB is barely worth taking as a support right now, if it gets taken down to the level of Tempest/Druid, you won't see more variety in supports. You just won't see any supports. Period.

1v1 capacity IS important because one of the main roles in conquest is side noding which is all about a build's capacity to 1v1 and 1vX.

Agreed.

So why are you bringing up its support role in a discussion about 1v1?

Both support and the sidenode Firebrand is very strong. It was just a month ago double Firebrand won an MAT. Right now Weaver is the favored side noders both EU and NA but once that build gets nerfed it'll be the sidenode Firebrand that replaces it.

Double-Thief won the last 2 EU MATs, not sure that means they're OP.

And I very much doubt FB could replace Weaver as sidenoder. The difference is in how defenses scale. Aegis is great 1v1. It doesn't scale up to 1v2 or 1v3, which is what a sidenoder needs to be able to survive, at least for a short time. A sidenoder needs defences which work regardless of how many people are trying to hit it. Evades, Invulns, Channeled Blocks.

And I'll say again; I agree FB needs tuning down. But do so on the basis of rational analysis, not on the basis of hyperbole, exaggeration, faulty logic, irrelevant factors, magical 5 weapon builds. Who won what tournament last week is neither here nor there. The trend over the last 6 months is what's important.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...