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Firebrands, the most enigmatic class. Do they need a nerf?


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Like I said, if someone can muster a compelling argument to what specifically needs to be nerfed and why, I'd listen. One of the more common complaints I hear are symbols to which, I despise this mechanic. The fact that EVERY weapon has a symbol attached to it is rather annoying. It's a static/unfun mechanic in a dynamically mobile game. If it were me, I'd redo the whole symbol thing into something completely different.

Edit to the post above: There's plenty of counter play. Boonstrip/corruption, focus-fire, kiting. As stated above in some earlier posts and my own, FB has little-to-no chase or escapeability, no duration blocks, no stealth, no evasion on skills. It's sustain is 99% active play(1% being virtue of resolve).

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@Arken.3725 said:Like I said, if someone can muster a compelling argument to what specifically needs to be nerfed and why, I'd listen. One of the more common complaints I hear are symbols to which, I despise this mechanic. The fact that EVERY weapon has a symbol attached to it is rather annoying. It's a static/unfun mechanic in a dynamically mobile game. If it were me, I'd redo the whole symbol thing into something completely different.

Wayyyy to much boon access. Also, way to much support for the damage it can deal. It's a major contributor to the current power/boon creep. Boons across the map need to be reined in, of which FB will need to take a big hit from. Also, it needs not be able to do as much damage as it can while also being carried defensively by its tomes/mantras. I'm not saying it can do NO damage but it either needs to be good in defenese and weak in offense or vise versa. Right now it can play above average at both at the same time.

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@Arken.3725 said:Like I said, if someone can muster a compelling argument to what specifically needs to be nerfed and why, I'd listen. One of the more common complaints I hear are symbols to which, I despise this mechanic. The fact that EVERY weapon has a symbol attached to it is rather annoying. It's a static/unfun mechanic in a dynamically mobile game. If it were me, I'd redo the whole symbol thing into something completely different.

Edit to the post above: There's plenty of counter play. Boonstrip/corruption, focus-fire, kiting. As stated above in some earlier posts and my own, FB has little-to-no chase or escapeability, no duration blocks, no stealth, no evasion on skills. It's sustain is 99% active play(1% being virtue of resolve).

Remember, you're playing a GUARDian. Symbols are appropriate for those guarding a location.

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Regardless of what it is Ovark, it's still an annoying/unfun static mechanic that doesn't belong and only works in spvp because It's conquest. This mechanic wouldn't fly nearly as well in a deathmatch situation where anyone with average intelligence keeps moving around. Secondly to the post above with boons, the duration of boons is insignificant with the death of Harrierbrand, variation means nothing if the duration is a joke. Thank you for your responses.

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He needs Big Nerfs in all game modes.PvP: Nerf condi spam, boon spam, symbol damage and healing output; add cd's to mantras, reduce axe pull range. I would like to add the Elite Skill nerf, but the healthy core guard needs that skill a lot.PvE: Nerf boon output A LOT; nerf burn condition A LOT and symbol damage for give him a single role, not the "Can be Healer, CDPS, Condi Support, Power Support"WvW: Nerf retailation share, reflect bubble, Condi cleanse and buff Tempest Condi cleanse and Scrapper autosustain for zergs, so we can have 3 support options (1 Stab sharer, 1 Stealth and healing sharer and 1 condi cleanse class)

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Also, make no mistake, I want to see FB nerfs in the following areas:

Unrelenting Criticism: Redo this trait completely, no need for a daze on the symbol, too much CC spam.Mantra of Truth: Remove the immob on the last charge. It's already a solid skill, immob adds too much.

I'll think of more but these two would help for sure.

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Yes, but only very slightly .Maybe Shining river needs a touch. Maybe a slight damage nerf or a condi spread shave.I'm totally fine with guards being support as long as they have to take their time getting to a point or be escorted, and can't beat down people in addition to being omegatanky. The core of that is fine, but pick one or the other. If theyre support, their offensive capabilities should buff their allies but their defensive ones should affect them.

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While I understand the posts above sentiment, condition spread of a fb isn't nearly as insane a most other professions. My issue with that proposed Nerf is that if you do that and all you have again is burning with nothing to keep it ticking (like core and dh) it'll never be useful.

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I came to notice that players/meta don't ever have:

  • Unblockables which is a key weakness to the entire profession because of minimal i-frames and evades.
  • Stability to completely nullify the CC chain they heavily rely on.
  • Boon removal because they have access to all boons but alacrity.
  • Patience to wait out symbols.

In fact a lot of players/meta builds have:

  • Uneccessary amount of evades.
  • Too much focus on damage.
  • No quirks with multiple benefits.

Taking that into account, I have a hard time to accept firebrands are OP because I am pretty much a counter to them and I get to see through those weakness that if they were nerfed further. They'd fall out of the game completely, I don't know what people wants to be nerfed, but they should at least be curious to approach a similar playstyle or consider the weaknesses to the build itself on other professions to notice how people are driven by their personal taste rather than creativity to think that something is OP.

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Firebrand needs a nerf itself but not so much the core lines. Like symbol damage was always a thing but the core lines dont have the pressure to force / hold you in the symbols like firebrand does. Core and DH also dont have the conditional pressure or constant boon application that firebrand has which is why its so strong. Lets also not forget the use of instant mantras which are just generally a problem.

Ideally people are using firebrand which was designed as a support as not a support and any time a profession has done this especially with its elite lines but not specificlly with its elite lines it often is allowed to keep the damage it has at the core level, gain slightly more damage due to the boon synergy that the support line provides, gaints greater sustain from the support line than their personal defensive line. So you end up with a profession that has the damage of core guardian or DH without their sustain weaknesses when built offensively. The same things is also happening to warrior with the (supportive) tactics line. Of course you see how many warriors are running it now for non supportive reasons and how much benefit it grants them. This is one of the major problems with this game. Any time anet does anything with the idea of "support" i get worried.

Does Firebrand have counters? Of course it does but not enough of them. ITs simply over-performing when used for not only support but non supportive roles.

Anet needs to get inclose when making support lines and elites and remove the "You and your allies" to just be "your allies" on most traits and possibly some skills. This way supportive tools cannot be selfishly used to provide more sustain than intended when they opt to not use the lines for the supportive intentions.

Its possible that we just need to see less skills that are obviously designed to be support effect the caster in the same effectiveness as their allies so that those tools some what enforce people to take up a supportive role or they wont gain too much selfish benefit from them which leads to a profession with a support line or elite over-performing

But yes The firebrand line, its mantras, and its tomes need some adjustments to balance it out. Either reduce its supportive power considerably to make it no a support or reduce the supportive tools to be considerably less effective on the caster while still allowing them to be strong on allies.

If firebrand enforced players to play it with the idea it was designed for and not some glass boon cannon that splatters conditions over you no one would likely see it as a problem anet left too much freedom for players to exploit the supportive side of it for themselves.

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@"ZDragon.3046" said:Anet needs to get inclose when making support lines and elites and remove the "You and your allies" to just be "your allies" on most traits and possibly some skills. This way supportive tools cannot be selfishly used to provide more sustain than intended when they opt to not use the lines for the supportive intentions.

Its possible that we just need to see less skills that are obviously designed to be support effect the caster in the same effectiveness as their allies so that those tools some what enforce people to take up a supportive role or they wont gain too much selfish benefit from them which leads to a profession with a support line or elite over-performing

I agree not just with Firebrand, but for all classes. I have always felt that outgoing healing modifiers and traits like Herald's Elevated Compassion are healthier for the game because while they make an impact in group play, they have no effect on one's own survivability, prohibiting unhealthy or undesirable builds to arise. I think a comprehensive sweep like this would require major reevaluation for builds' offense potential to be narrowed down because that support-as-self-defense stuff has become integral for a lot or builds in order to survive, but I do like the idea of further differentiating bunker builds from support builds, putting further emphasis on teamplay and protecting the support.

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:Anet needs to get inclose when making support lines and elites and remove the "You and your allies" to just be "your allies" on most traits and possibly some skills. This way supportive tools cannot be selfishly used to provide more sustain than intended when they opt to not use the lines for the supportive intentions.

Its possible that we just need to see less skills that are obviously designed to be support effect the caster in the same effectiveness as their allies so that those tools some what enforce people to take up a supportive role or they wont gain too much selfish benefit from them which leads to a profession with a support line or elite over-performing

I agree not just with Firebrand, but for all classes. I have always felt that outgoing healing modifiers and traits like Herald's Elevated Compassion are healthi
er
for the game because while they make an impact in group play, they have no effect on one's own survivability, prohibiting unhealthy or undesirable builds to arise. I think a comprehensive sweep like this would require major reevaluation for builds' offense potential to be narrowed down because that support-as-self-defense stuff has become integral for a lot or builds in order to survive, but I do like the idea of further differentiating bunker builds from support builds, putting further emphasis on teamplay and protecting the support.

Thats the sad part really most professions dont use their self sustain lines anymore even when the self sustain lines are good like warriors defensive line.I get that like Necros Death magic is questionable and Ele Earth magic is questionable both lines still could stand to be better by a long shot which is why people opt for blood and or water for sustain both of which are aimed more in the supportive aspect. Really i can only blame anet for over looking these things as the support lines do provide way more personal sustain than the personal defensive lines do. To be honest this just came to my mind a few weeks ago when i had to really sit and think why a support elite spec like firebrand has all the things it has while being able to do the damage it does. As well as why so many warriors run tactics yet clearly are not there to support while having the insane damage they have.Even herald was once considered more of a support yet was doing insane amounts of damage while being allowed to keep big chunks of its supportive boon power to be used selfishly.Then my mind started going to the past things people dont use as much anymore. Tempest, Druid, Chrono, Scourge... all of which were designed with the idea of support yet were capable of being busted as heck when built under the idea of not doing supportive roles and holding some big portion of their supportive power as their own means of sustain.

I would say .... ANET stop designing new support professions, skills, traits and stuff for your game till you figure out how to not let people use it straight up selfishly cause it breaks balance lol.

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@Shao.7236 said:I came to notice that players/meta don't ever have:

  • Unblockables which is a key weakness to the entire profession because of minimal i-frames and evades.
  • Stability to completely nullify the CC chain they heavily rely on.
  • Boon removal because they have access to all boons but alacrity.
  • Patience to wait out symbols.

In fact a lot of players/meta builds have:

  • Uneccessary amount of evades.
  • Too much focus on damage.
  • No quirks with multiple benefits.

Taking that into account, I have a hard time to accept firebrands are OP because I am pretty much a counter to them and I get to see through those weakness that if they were nerfed further. They'd fall out of the game completely, I don't know what people wants to be nerfed, but they should at least be curious to approach a similar playstyle or consider the weaknesses to the build itself on other professions to notice how people are driven by their personal taste rather than creativity to think that something is OP.

there is a mistconception that boon removal counters FB. It doesnt.IT counters classes that dont have much boons like warrior more then vomit classes like FB.Immagine devoting entire utility to remove 5 boons and they are swiftness,prot,vigor,aegis and regeneratiob.and 2s later all of them are back.then you remove 25stacks of might and fury from warrior, and there is actual difference.

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@Shao.7236 said:I came to notice that players/meta don't ever have:

  • Unblockables which is a key weakness to the entire profession because of minimal i-frames and evades.Because not every profession has a plethora of unblockables. Rev has the most common access with its phase transversal and considering the potential damage rev can do in 2 hits its why they counter firebrands. Unblockable skills become considerably less common after this with and dont serve as much value against the majority of other professions.
  • Stability to completely nullify the CC chain they heavily rely on.Because some professions dont have a ton of stability that last for long durations. The ones that do are also over performing or stand a much fair chance against them. Warriors, Rangers, Weavers, etc.
  • Boon removal because they have access to all boons but alacrity.Because the best boon hate elite was thrown into the dust with wvw updates back when updates were still tied together. Firebrand can cc combo it to death pretty easily too. Also only 3-4 professions of the entire 9 have the power to rip boons and 2 of them not very commonly. Firebrand also replaces its boons too quickly (uptime is too high)
  • Patience to wait out symbols.This is true and valid and it works on core and DH just not Firebrand which is why you dont see symbol complaints with just core and DH (go back to cc chain issue)

In fact a lot of players/meta builds have:

  • Uneccessary amount of evades.This is true but damage avoidance is better than damage soaking the two things need have less of a gap in effectiveness but so long as damage is as high as it is right now people wont think this way cause in some cases 1 or 2 taps is death.
  • Too much focus on damage.Because anet forces you too and its the whole reason why offensive firebrand builds even exists right now.... Offensive power works as a better means of defense than actually investing in defensive stats and in some cases defensive tools (depending on the profession)
  • No quirks with multiple benefits.Almost every profession or one of its elites in the game including firebrand
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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:Anet needs to get inclose when making support lines and elites and remove the "You and your allies" to just be "your allies" on most traits and possibly some skills. This way supportive tools cannot be selfishly used to provide more sustain than intended when they opt to not use the lines for the supportive intentions.

Its possible that we just need to see less skills that are obviously designed to be support effect the caster in the same effectiveness as their allies so that those tools some what enforce people to take up a supportive role or they wont gain too much selfish benefit from them which leads to a profession with a support line or elite over-performing

I agree not just with Firebrand, but for all classes. I have always felt that outgoing healing modifiers and traits like Herald's Elevated Compassion are healthi
er
for the game because while they make an impact in group play, they have no effect on one's own survivability, prohibiting unhealthy or undesirable builds to arise. I think a comprehensive sweep like this would require major reevaluation for builds' offense potential to be narrowed down because that support-as-self-defense stuff has become integral for a lot or builds in order to survive, but I do like the idea of further differentiating bunker builds from support builds, putting further emphasis on teamplay and protecting the support.

Thats the sad part really most professions dont use their self sustain lines anymore even when the self sustain lines are good like warriors defensive line.I get that like Necros Death magic is questionable and Ele Earth magic is questionable both lines still could stand to be better by a long shot which is why people opt for blood and or water for sustain both of which are aimed more in the supportive aspect. Really i can only blame anet for over looking these things as the support lines do provide way more personal sustain than the personal defensive lines do. To be honest this just came to my mind a few weeks ago when i had to really sit and think why a support elite spec like firebrand has all the things it has while being able to do the damage it does. As well as why so many warriors run tactics yet clearly are not there to support while having the insane damage they have.Even herald was once considered more of a support yet was doing insane amounts of damage while being allowed to keep big chunks of its supportive boon power to be used selfishly.Then my mind started going to the past things people dont use as much anymore. Tempest, Druid, Chrono, Scourge... all of which were designed with the idea of support yet were capable of being busted as heck when built under the idea of not doing supportive roles and holding some big portion of their supportive power as their own means of sustain.

I would say .... ANET stop designing new support professions, skills, traits and stuff for your game till you figure out how to not let people use it straight up selfishly cause it breaks balance lol.

Yeah, I would say this is largely due to the fact that ANet attempts to design e-specs with versatility in mind. They want to have the support-esque e-specs be applicable to a variety of different roles, generally speaking. We can see this with Chrono, Herald, Renegade, Tempest, Druid, Scourge, Firebrand, Scrapper, and probably more that I am forgetting. Considering we only have two different e-specs to choose from, I can understand why they'd do this, but I would definitely say this has a big implication on balance. Roles become a lot more muddled and have a potential for too much versatility. I suppose part of this has to do with this game being originally designed as an alternative to the MMO holy trinity.

Ultimately, I would like to see a further emphasis on well-executed tradeoffs, such as FB only having access to one tome through the GM (but having it interact differently), traits like Herald's Draconic Echo providing a significant sacrifice for the benefit it brings, etc. This is just a general design philosophy that I consider to be healthy. I am absolutely not a fan of these one-size-fits-all builds with too much of everything. I would say that despite the garbage mess that the e-spec is in, Druid's GMs are a good reflection of that: each offers considerable benefit for a specific purpose without over inflating the general kit.

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Gut FB and let it bleed all over the forums. It is literally the only spec in the game that over-performs in every area, DPS/Support/Tank/Stability/Aegis/Boon stacking. Steal/remove an FB's boons and watch the insane rate of reapplication.

WvW- FBT4 FoTM - FBPvP/AT - FBRaid - FB

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@"ZDragon.3046" said:Because not every profession has a plethora of unblockables. Rev has the most common access with its phase transversal and considering the potential damage rev can do in 2 hits its why they counter firebrands. Unblockable skills become considerably less common after this with and dont serve as much value against the majority of other professions.Banish Enchantment, Nothing Can Save You, Swipe + Bountiful Theft + S/D, Signet of Might, Signet of the Wild. Any of those would easily get rid of a FB in the right opportunity with any sort of pressure following.

Because some professions dont have a ton of stability that last for long durations. The ones that do are also over performing or stand a much fair chance against them. Warriors, Rangers, Weavers, etc.

Warriors rarely run Stability today, as for the other two I still think Revenant is miles above those two as well as giving it.

Because the best boon hate elite was thrown into the dust with wvw updates back when updates were still tied together. Firebrand can cc combo it to death pretty easily too. Also only 3-4 professions of the entire 9 have the power to rip boons and 2 of them not very commonly. Firebrand also replaces its boons too quickly (uptime is too high)

Necromancer, Revenant and Thief in order would have an easy time making sure that FB doesn't stay for long.

This is true and valid and it works on core and DH just not Firebrand which is why you dont see symbol complaints with just core and DH (go back to cc chain issue)

Guardians be Guardians, they are meant to dominate an area, it's in their name. I don't think Symbols should be nerfed at all if they can be free casted from afar.

This is true but damage avoidance is better than damage soaking the two things need have less of a gap in effectiveness but so long as damage is as high as it is right now people wont think this way cause in some cases 1 or 2 taps is death.I want to agree, but that's just because the only professions that can legitimately tank without the reliance of blocks/stealth/kitting/evading in order is Revenant, Necromancer, Elementalist, Warrior and Soulbeast because of their access to Weakness and other means to sponge damage directly no other classes truly have.

Because anet forces you too and its the whole reason why offensive firebrand builds even exists right now.... Offensive power works as a better means of defense than actually investing in defensive stats and in some cases defensive tools (depending on the profession)

Yes all amulets have Power or Condition to keep a degree of combat potential which is also why Magi doesn't exist anymore, but that in regards all amulets fill a niche that one certain profession could excel, even Knights. The game is really complex yet stupidly narrowed down because "meta".

Almost every profession or one of its elites in the game including firebrand

No what I meant there was that everyone runs something predictable and generic because "meta", I'll have you know that there's this Reaper running in ranked with Signet of the Undeath which has turned a lot of games around by just changing one utility slot, some Guardians have finally realized the strength of Save Yourselves pulling /ALL/ conditions around them in a team fight. There's a lot of things to do outside the box that requires just a slightly harder curve, all it takes is daring.

@Leonidrex.5649

Banish Enchantment destroy Firebrands, I take it from Naru complaining about it and dying more than a few times the same game because of it.

In my experience, Firebrands are the least of my worries in any games. They're almost free kills, I wouldn't say because it takes a lil to kill them but no less than Weaver spin to win or P/W spam, those takes at least 5 hours each.

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

@"ZDragon.3046" said:Anet needs to get inclose when making support lines and elites and remove the "You and your allies" to just be "your allies" on most traits and possibly some skills. This way supportive tools cannot be selfishly used to provide more sustain than intended when they opt to not use the lines for the supportive intentions.

Its possible that we just need to see less skills that are obviously designed to be support effect the caster in the same effectiveness as their allies so that those tools some what enforce people to take up a supportive role or they wont gain too much selfish benefit from them which leads to a profession with a support line or elite over-performing

I agree not just with Firebrand, but for all classes. I have always felt that outgoing healing modifiers and traits like Herald's Elevated Compassion are healthi
er
for the game because while they make an impact in group play, they have no effect on one's own survivability, prohibiting unhealthy or undesirable builds to arise. I think a comprehensive sweep like this would require major reevaluation for builds' offense potential to be narrowed down because that support-as-self-defense stuff has become integral for a lot or builds in order to survive, but I do like the idea of further differentiating bunker builds from support builds, putting further emphasis on teamplay and protecting the support.

Technically Druids for instance and eles could easily use their skills they use to heal in aoe to heal themselves so unless their heals have a line of You cannot heal yourself then you cannot heal, so it still counts as sustain, so how do you prevent it without adding a line of you cannot heal yourself?

Then again druids and eles are great examples of self-sustain gained from the healing lines.

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@Shao.7236I wonder how many games this necro threw becouse he had signet of undeath instead of corrupt boon for example.Why do people pretend that if you strip fb boons they suddenly die,its not true at all.as I said before, boon removal hurts classes with less boons more then those with many, becouse they cant insta reapply them, or get the important ones ripped.Most of skills that have unblockable DOESNT MATTER against aegis, hit thats unblockable goes throught and then next hit gets blocked so nothing changes.Lets not preted that the heals is the only way guard survives.they vomit protectionthey vomit aegisthey vomit weaknessthey vomit blindsthey have heavy armourand they heal ALOT.there is nothing enigmatic in FB, they are just broken plain and simple. Broken in pvp, broken in wvw, and broken in pve.

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@Shao.7236 said:I came to notice that players/meta don't ever have:

  • Unblockables which is a key weakness to the entire profession because of minimal i-frames and evades.
  • Stability to completely nullify the CC chain they heavily rely on.
  • Boon removal because they have access to all boons but alacrity.
  • Patience to wait out symbols.

In fact a lot of players/meta builds have:

  • Uneccessary amount of evades.
  • Too much focus on damage.
  • No quirks with multiple benefits.

Taking that into account, I have a hard time to accept firebrands are OP because I am pretty much a counter to them and I get to see through those weakness that if they were nerfed further. They'd fall out of the game completely, I don't know what people wants to be nerfed, but they should at least be curious to approach a similar playstyle or consider the weaknesses to the build itself on other professions to notice how people are driven by their personal taste rather than creativity to think that something is OP.

Unblockables are pretty hard to come by these days...Actually, it's one of the few things I think anet has been doing a pretty good job of keeping control of (what with its removal from soulbeast and Death's Judgement). However, weaknesses mean little if there's nothing anybody can really do feasibly exploit it.

There's plenty of boon removal flying around, especialy with core necro + its boon corrupt making a comeback. Thing is, Firebrand pukes out enough boons that it has much less of an impact. FB # of boons is fine - uptime could use some shaves, imo. I gave it the 'ol college try at once point and paid a bit more attention to some Firebrands during teamfights, just to see what I could do against their boon uptime. It...certainly helped, but def not as much as such an investment should, imo - hence 'shaves' instead of 'removal/nerfs'.

As for symbols, this is...no. There's no getting around it. Want to attack the Firebrand? You will end up in a symbol, end of story, unless you're pure ranged with ready access to unblockables that can outlast tome + shield 5 + aeigis (which will definitely be there to absorb hard hits). Scepter has a 6 sec CD on its symbol. Axe, mace have 8 sec (last 4 sec, 50% uptime). Sword has 10 sec, staff has 12 sec.

Which is fine, generally speaking (the symbol uptime). I don't have much against symbols - I think they're boring and could use some mechanical changes + buffs (shield 2 weeps), but that's another thread. It's the on-demand, low cooldown blind + weakness + cripple that I have beef with - 12 sec w/out trait, 9 sec w/trait. Cripple compounds issues, and the weakness duration is probably too long. It could do with a small nerf or two - some combination of dealing with the cripple, or short cooldown, or weakness duration.

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@Leonidrex.5649

If I can eat any FB's for break fast as Condition Revenant, does that mean I'm broken too? I don't think so.

This mentality behind having mandatory skills is what kills the game when the synergy of the team matters more.

Tell you though, I'll use the same format for my playstyle in a less comedic way tho.

  • I can 1 stack of Weakness (7 Seconds) at /any/ CC. Can spam at high cost.
  • I can give more team oriented Stability (10 seconds) than Firebrands.
  • I can give more team oriented resistance (8 seconds at high cost) + cleanse (3 conditions) and weaponize any of those conditions into an unblockable counter pressure.
  • I can give 50% team oriented power damage reduction in a 600 radius (5 seconds). Can spam at high cost.
  • I can give 5 stacks of unblockable Confusion (3 seconds) on top of removing 3 boons, can spam safely up to 15 stacks but high cost.
  • I can give 10 seconds of slow if I want to.
  • I can have over 85% power damage reduction not counting the possible protection that adds multiplicatively to the existing additive benefits and the glancing blows of Weakness.
  • I can heal for more than Healing Signet with no Healing Power on the offensive and be rewarded for any form of pressure given that the more conditions I have, the more I heal and can punish back.
  • I can stack over 20 Torment by myself safely (In 5 seconds, can be done safely with benefits, part of the main burst.).
  • I can have over 40% condition damage reduction (5 seconds).
  • I can CC Torment/Confusion people through walls/slops on a 900 range.
  • I can shadowstep every 10 seconds with an unblockable slow/chill.
  • I have a 360 radius AoE CC that can reach kitting safe spots.
  • I have a 1200 units CC in a 360 Radius (Also 3 seconds Taunt and Slow).
  • I can have up to 4k barrier on top of all early mentioned benefits.
  • I can Poison up to 4 targets in chain for 18 seconds by just autoattacking.
  • I have AoE projectile denial every 20 seconds.
  • I have 23k HP.. Also Blinds and Heavy Armor!

Is it broken yet? Or just straw picking. My options are far and wide, but that's nature of exploring outside the boring unfun lackluster meta. You also find really fun challenging things to do. It ups the decision making and therfor skill ceiling.

@Curennos.9307Yeah of course, but I think people are overreacting, all it takes is just one Reaper or Warrior (Any type, core, berserker, spell.) with unblockables under the right plays instead of just pressing buttons because it can be done. Firebrands can't go around without using their tomes if you can avoid their initial attempts, the moment you know what they can and can't do that's when you should at least use them. If you remember the Sic Em unblockable or DE, that kept Firebrands in check, it's still the same except less cheesy, it has to be done with some effort.

As for symbols, obviously but if you avoided the pull. You're pretty much safe to take opportunities at your pace.

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@Shao.7236 said:@Leonidrex.5649

If I can eat any FB's for break fast as Condition Revenant, does that mean I'm broken too? I don't think so.

This mentality behind having mandatory skills is what kills the game when the synergy of the team matters more.

Tell you though, I'll use the same format for my playstyle in a less comedic way tho.

  • I can 1 stack of Weakness (7 Seconds) at /any/ CC. Can spam at high cost.
  • I can give more team oriented Stability (10 seconds) than Firebrands.
  • I can give more team oriented resistance (8 seconds at high cost) + cleanse (3 conditions) and weaponize any of those conditions into an unblockable counter pressure.
  • I can give 50% team oriented power damage reduction in a 600 radius (5 seconds). Can spam at high cost.
  • I can give 5 stacks of unblockable Confusion (3 seconds) on top of removing 3 boons, can spam safely up to 15 stacks but high cost.
  • I can give 10 seconds of slow if I want to.
  • I can have over 85% power damage reduction not counting the possible protection that adds multiplicatively to the existing additive benefits and the glancing blows of Weakness.
  • I can heal for more than Healing Signet with no Healing Power on the offensive and be rewarded for any form of pressure given that the more conditions I have, the more I heal and can punish back.
  • I can stack over 20 Torment by myself safely (In 5 seconds, can be done safely with benefits, part of the main burst.).
  • I can have over 40% condition damage reduction (5 seconds).
  • I can CC Torment/Confusion people through walls/slops on a 900 range.
  • I can shadowstep every 10 seconds with an unblockable slow/chill.
  • I have a 360 radius AoE CC that can reach kitting safe spots.
  • I have a 1200 units CC in a 360 Radius (Also 3 seconds Taunt and Slow).
  • I can have up to 4k barrier on top of all early mentioned benefits.
  • I can Poison up to 4 targets in chain for 18 seconds by just autoattacking.
  • I have AoE projectile denial every 20 seconds.
  • I have 23k HP.. Also Blinds and Heavy Armor!

Is it broken yet? Or just straw picking. My options are far and wide, but that's nature of exploring outside the boring unfun lackluster meta. You also find really fun challenging things to do. It ups the decision making and therfor skill ceiling.

@Curennos.9307Yeah of course, but I think people are overreacting, all it takes is just one Reaper or Warrior (Any type, core, berserker, spell.) with unblockables under the right plays instead of just pressing buttons because it can be done. Firebrands can't go around without using their tomes if you can avoid their initial attempts, the moment you know what they can and can't do that's when you should at least use them. If you remember the Sic Em unblockable or DE, that kept Firebrands in check, it's still the same except less cheesy, it has to be done with some effort.

As for symbols, obviously but if you avoided the pull. You're pretty much safe to take opportunities at your pace.

Hence why I'm after some nerfs and some mechanical changes + buffs :)

That said, care to share your condi rev build? I'm running something very similar, curious to what other folks decided to go with. Sounds like Dwarf/Mallyx, Corruption+Ret...? I'm using Kalla/Mallyx. Kally'x AoE interrupt is nice for spreading weakness.

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