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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@appelflap.8310 said:Exactly and it's been like this for way too long without any changes to stealth. I really believe a good amount of damage over time when ppl are in stealth should fix that problem. Ofcourse shadow's rejuvenation should get nerfed too because at the moment perma stealth thiefs get rewarded for going stealth? Give me a reason why i should play thief in wvw lol

Stealth is where it needs to be in the cheese fest that the game is these days, if it was nerfed thieves that rely on stealth as a defensive and offensive mechanic would be free food. If games gets major overhaul and majorly depowercrept and hopefully somewhat depowercheesed than think about nerfing stealth or changing it.

ooh, those poor thieves. Without stealth they might actually be forced to be good.

It is not that they are quick and hard to catch in the first place.

Stealth needs to be removed.

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@appelflap.8310 said:

@appelflap.8310 said:Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means
, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

This is rich.

By the way if you still think landing a backstab on you only takes one skill like you just started playing yesterday at the least you can bring more than reskinning my point and stapling it to your mesmer.

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@XenesisII.1540 said:

@appelflap.8310 said:another one? i want this game to be fixed. i can go and play thief too in wvw but it's just too cheesy over there

Permastealth is definitely cheese but so is 90% of the builds and rotations people use on their preferred class so.... permastealth is just king of the hill in the cheese mountain that is gw2 these days. If u think nerfing stealth will FIX this game u need to pay more attention and broaden ur view.

So you agree that the game is full of cheese builds and permastealth(thieves) is king of the kill of cheese builds, but nothing should be done to the king of the hill cheese build because you believe it's not the one magical fix it all the game needs.... Broaden your views? A lot of things obviously need to be adjusted/tweaked/fixed and should be looked at some point, the massive balance patch for damage and support is already under way, doesn't mean other things shouldn't be looked at including stealth game play. Other games have implemented stealth/invis game play much than this game has.

IMO as a mesmer main, stealth should be fully removed from the game if they can't be bothered to balance advantages and limitations properly. Permastealth thief with portal running around keeps, sneak gyro adjusted multiple times on duration and cooldowns... 7 years after release, they still don't have a clue.

Nope! Not what I said at all. I don't think stealth should see any major changes until the game as a whole does, not that it doesn't need changes full stop. If the game goes in a direction where it's not a cheese fest across ALL classes than by all means change stealth. I've always advocated stealth as a cloak like effect similar to preditor where in ur only true invisible when not moving. A few skills that are not stackable giving thief 6 secs invisibility while moving so to allow them to atleast attempts a backstab would be fair as backstab by a cloaked player wouldn't be possible unless the opponent is literally not paying attention at all which isn't a good factor to balance around.

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@appelflap.8310 said:Exactly and it's been like this for way too long without any changes to stealth. I really believe a good amount of damage over time when ppl are in stealth should fix that problem. Ofcourse shadow's rejuvenation should get nerfed too because at the moment perma stealth thiefs get rewarded for going stealth? Give me a reason why i should play thief in wvw lol

Stealth is where it needs to be in the cheese fest that the game is these days, if it was nerfed thieves that rely on stealth as a defensive and offensive mechanic would be free food. If games gets major overhaul and majorly depowercrept and hopefully somewhat depowercheesed than think about nerfing stealth or changing it.

ooh, those poor thieves. Without stealth they might actually be forced to be good.

It is not that they are quick and hard to catch in the first place.

Stealth needs to be removed.

This is the biased garbage posts that I'm glad are ignored by the devs as the show a complete ignorance to actual balance or the attempt to do so. Go play thief sans stealth or without spamming a skill like pw(the other current community complaint) and record and post how well u do against the other classes and their builds. It's easy for someone who dislikes thief to just say erase one of their main mechanics and they be fine and force them to be good but talk is cheap and uninformed and ignorant in ur case.

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as someone who gets killed by thieves all the time and is really really horrible when I try to play as a thief. I think stealth is fine, people just need to learn not to stand still out in the open field by their lonesome for more than 5 seconds. If you want to afk, do it in an objective or at spawn. If you're trying to solo cata/ram an objective always be ready to dodge and run in case enemies come. If you were moving in one direction when the thief managed to backstab you, congratulate the thief on a job well done and learn to move in a less predictable way. Getting a backstab off successfully is not easy, unless the target is careless or stupid, I know because I've tried it and failed because I'm a horrible thief, and I've gotten backstabbed and wrecked plenty of times when I was being careless or stupid.

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@appelflap.8310 said:Exactly and it's been like this for way too long without any changes to stealth. I really believe a good amount of damage over time when ppl are in stealth should fix that problem. Ofcourse shadow's rejuvenation should get nerfed too because at the moment perma stealth thiefs get rewarded for going stealth? Give me a reason why i should play thief in wvw lol

Stealth is where it needs to be in the cheese fest that the game is these days, if it was nerfed thieves that rely on stealth as a defensive and offensive mechanic would be free food. If games gets major overhaul and majorly depowercrept and hopefully somewhat depowercheesed than think about nerfing stealth or changing it.

ooh, those poor thieves. Without stealth they might actually be forced to be good.

It is not that they are quick and hard to catch in the first place.

Stealth needs to be removed.

Spaghetti code.... stealth improvements not found.

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@appelflap.8310 said:

@appelflap.8310 said:Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

if u get 1 shotted as mirage u need learn how to dodge to break stun cus no other cc comes from thief that would 1 shot you.tbh with u theres not a single thief that one shots you. youre talking about deadeye well when u have a mark on ur head u know hes around and u can start moving your ass quickly by using mount or stick to a blob.

if ur gonna tell me u get 1 shotted by thief or daredevil then id suggest looking at your gear cus then ur probably geared to 1 bang people also and u cry when u get 1 shotted.i dont really understand why moi as thief or core ele never get these 1 shot moments by another thief... no im not saying its a l2p issue but for some reason some people get bullied over and over to cry on forum over a class whos probably among the gimpest classes when it comes to WvW overall gameplay maybe u should start thinking how i can prevent this different gear? dont run away from blob? start using mount when marked? start paying attention to actually see thief going in hide? i mean most of the time when a thief is going in hide u could have seen that no thief sits in a corner for ever waiting for some1 to pass by to 1 hit..

@Aeolus.3615 said:Maybe adding CD to some skills and/or bringing exhaustion mechanic back once again.

If a thief keeps using burst to fast starts generating exaution where thief energy bar becomes harder to gain tick and as less total.

This or adding CD to skills.

we 1 hit bro who cares about CD when u 1 hit :D!

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@reddie.5861 said:

@appelflap.8310 said:Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

if u get 1 shotted as mirage u need learn how to dodge to break stun cus no other cc comes from thief that would 1 shot you.tbh with u theres not a single thief that one shots you. youre talking about deadeye well when u have a mark on ur head u know hes around and u can start moving your kitten quickly by using mount or stick to a blob.

if ur gonna tell me u get 1 shotted by thief or daredevil then id suggest looking at your gear cus then ur probably geared to 1 bang people also and u cry when u get 1 shotted.i dont really understand why moi as thief or core ele never get these 1 shot moments by another thief... no im not saying its a l2p issue but for some reason some people get bullied over and over to cry on forum over a class whos probably among the gimpest classes when it comes to WvW overall gameplay maybe u should start thinking how i can prevent this different gear? dont run away from blob? start using mount when marked? start paying attention to actually see thief going in hide? i mean most of the time when a thief is going in hide u could have seen that no thief sits in a corner for ever waiting for some1 to pass by to 1 hit..

@Aeolus.3615 said:Maybe adding CD to some skills and/or bringing exhaustion mechanic back once again.

If a thief keeps using burst to fast starts generating exaution where thief energy bar becomes harder to gain tick and as less total.

This or adding CD to skills.

we 1 hit bro who cares about CD when u 1 hit :D!you also don't get it
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@appelflap.8310 said:

@appelflap.8310 said:Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

if u get 1 shotted as mirage u need learn how to dodge to break stun cus no other cc comes from thief that would 1 shot you.tbh with u theres not a single thief that one shots you. youre talking about deadeye well when u have a mark on ur head u know hes around and u can start moving your kitten quickly by using mount or stick to a blob.

if ur gonna tell me u get 1 shotted by thief or daredevil then id suggest looking at your gear cus then ur probably geared to 1 bang people also and u cry when u get 1 shotted.i dont really understand why moi as thief or core ele never get these 1 shot moments by another thief... no im not saying its a l2p issue but for some reason some people get bullied over and over to cry on forum over a class whos probably among the gimpest classes when it comes to WvW overall gameplay maybe u should start thinking how i can prevent this different gear? dont run away from blob? start using mount when marked? start paying attention to actually see thief going in hide? i mean most of the time when a thief is going in hide u could have seen that no thief sits in a corner for ever waiting for some1 to pass by to 1 hit..

@Aeolus.3615 said:Maybe adding CD to some skills and/or bringing exhaustion mechanic back once again.

If a thief keeps using burst to fast starts generating exaution where thief energy bar becomes harder to gain tick and as less total.

This or adding CD to skills.

we 1 hit bro who cares about CD when u 1 hit :D!you also don't get it

i dont wanna get it..

me as thief i cant always win from some classes.. but most of the time i do win. from not because they are bad or im good because thief isnt like most of u guys think straight forward DPS beast..sometimes u just need count them dodges or lure em out from them or sometimes u just need to have a ton of patience etc..

thiefs are far from straight forward DPS class that just goes in and hits and out again, ofcourse you have these people but these are also the people who die quite easy.the thiefs that farm you over and over again are probably the thiefs who have the patience or knownledge when to just completely wipe you off the map but they will probably do the same with any other given class and maybe even as thief without using stealth.

the thing u need to understand is that stealth is not your problem like it or not u simply are getting outplayed and that isnt meant bad..im getting out played also i deal with it and accept it, im not the best fine with me i dont care aslong i have fun.

some classes deal almost equal dmg to thiefs backstab from a range. why isnt that a problem, cus you can see them? but u cant get away from them u still die like a tool..

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@reddie.5861 said:

@appelflap.8310 said:Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

if u get 1 shotted as mirage u need learn how to dodge to break stun cus no other cc comes from thief that would 1 shot you.tbh with u theres not a single thief that one shots you. youre talking about deadeye well when u have a mark on ur head u know hes around and u can start moving your kitten quickly by using mount or stick to a blob.

if ur gonna tell me u get 1 shotted by thief or daredevil then id suggest looking at your gear cus then ur probably geared to 1 bang people also and u cry when u get 1 shotted.i dont really understand why moi as thief or core ele never get these 1 shot moments by another thief... no im not saying its a l2p issue but for some reason some people get bullied over and over to cry on forum over a class whos probably among the gimpest classes when it comes to WvW overall gameplay maybe u should start thinking how i can prevent this different gear? dont run away from blob? start using mount when marked? start paying attention to actually see thief going in hide? i mean most of the time when a thief is going in hide u could have seen that no thief sits in a corner for ever waiting for some1 to pass by to 1 hit..

@Aeolus.3615 said:Maybe adding CD to some skills and/or bringing exhaustion mechanic back once again.

If a thief keeps using burst to fast starts generating exaution where thief energy bar becomes harder to gain tick and as less total.

This or adding CD to skills.

we 1 hit bro who cares about CD when u 1 hit :D!you also don't get it

i dont wanna get it..

me as thief i cant always win from some classes.. but most of the time i do win. from not because they are bad or im good because thief isnt like most of u guys think straight forward DPS beast..sometimes u just need count them dodges or lure em out from them or sometimes u just need to have a ton of patience etc..

thiefs are far from straight forward DPS class that just goes in and hits and out again, ofcourse you have these people but these are also the people who die quite easy.the thiefs that farm you over and over again are probably the thiefs who have the patience or knownledge when to just completely wipe you off the map but they will probably do the same with any other given class and maybe even as thief without using stealth.

the thing u need to understand is that stealth is not your problem like it or not u simply are getting outplayed and that isnt meant bad..im getting out played also i deal with it and accept it, im not the best fine with me i dont care aslong i have fun.

some classes deal almost equal dmg to thiefs backstab from a range. why isnt that a problem, cus you can see them? but u cant get away from them u still die like a tool..

It even more funny cuz OP plays mirage, probably the bandwaggon one shot power build thsts going around and thinks cuz it's a few skills done in the span of one from stealth it's fine but thieves version isn't lol.

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@appelflap.8310 said:

@appelflap.8310 said:another one? i want this game to be fixed. i can go and play thief too in wvw but it's just too cheesy over there

You're playing mirage, not exactly in position to talk about being cheesy :<Also I think you can't, because you prefer playing safer and easier mirage :D

you don't get it

Get it or not, you know what I said is true lmao.

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Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.

  1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
  2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

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@"Loffels.5934" said:Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.

  1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
  2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Loffels.5934" said:Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.
  1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
  2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

what if i dont play DH? Oh wait, it gets better belowNecro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

OH MY SCOURGE HAS A 4K HP BARRIER! OH LOOK, TIEF WAITS FOR THE BARRIER TO EXPIRE oh there goes my lifeforce oh there goes thief portin/stealthing away again, hm, maybe i should randomly dodge or recast F3---ooops, no lifeforce, gg. As for the "condi burst", it kinda seems like you play another game? Dont you know thief has many cleanses equipped? At least those who I fight, do. They Systematically abuse their class and they Kill From Behind.Wait. Maybe I dont play scourge cause it is THE worst roaming class? Yessir! I use reaper! Spintowi---thief ports, resets daily meal, daily skills, grabs a drink, my lifeforce is still low. Boomboom, byebye. Maybe, wait, I should play corenec, as it has the ONE reveal skill, namely shroud 5! OH THIEF GETS AWAY AND MY MOBILITY IS BAD---5 secs of reveal gone, byebye, nice meeting you, cd of skill is 25s. Nice to meet youAoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

OH YEA BABEY LEMME CAST THAT BIG OL SHADE OR THAT METEOR AND POP EVERY F SKILL-- uh i died, respawnSome classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

Not all do, and thief can CONVENIENTLY port away with its many, many mobility skills.Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

YAY REVEAL TRAP thief ports away, reveal expires, you have 0 supps, ggThere are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.Too bad open eyes dont reveal stealth, eh

You are more biased with thief than a pharmaceutical company that finances studies about the efficiency of its own drugs. Stealth has NO downsides, NO tradeoffs.

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"Loffels.5934" said:Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.
  1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
  2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

what if i dont play DH? Oh wait, it gets better belowNecro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

OH MY SCOURGE HAS A 4K HP BARRIER! OH LOOK, TIEF WAITS FOR THE BARRIER TO EXPIRE oh there goes my lifeforce oh there goes thief portin/stealthing away again, hm, maybe i should randomly dodge or recast F3---ooops, no lifeforce, gg. As for the "condi burst", it kinda seems like you play another game? Dont you know thief has many cleanses equipped? At least those who I fight, do. They Systematically abuse their class and they Kill From Behind.Wait. Maybe I dont play scourge cause it is THE worst roaming class? Yessir! I use reaper! Spintowi---thief ports, resets daily meal, daily skills, grabs a drink, my lifeforce is still low. Boomboom, byebye. Maybe, wait, I should play corenec, as it has the ONE reveal skill, namely shroud 5! OH THIEF GETS AWAY AND MY MOBILITY IS BAD---5 secs of reveal gone, byebye, nice meeting you, cd of skill is 25s. Nice to meet youAoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

OH YEA BABEY LEMME CAST THAT BIG OL SHADE OR THAT METEOR AND POP EVERY F SKILL-- uh i died, respawnSome classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

Not all do, and thief can CONVENIENTLY port away with its many, many mobility skills.Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

YAY REVEAL TRAP thief ports away, reveal expires, you have 0 supps, ggThere are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.Too bad open eyes dont reveal stealth, eh

You are more biased with thief than a pharmaceutical company that finances studies about the efficiency of its own drugs. Stealth has NO downsides, NO tradeoffs.

Yeah the scrapper negates 4000 damage of the 10 000 backstab so u hit a scrapper for 6000 backstab on its actual hp and it easily sustains it and reveals, a scrapper with barrier literally cant be one shot and can take a dps dp thief so long to down it to the point ur better off moving on and that's not good enough for u? So is the scrapper supposed to fair even better vs the thief? Lmao scourge and ele's same out come if their good. It's like u expect the thief to do low dps on a skill with the set up of stealth and back stab and not have a follow up dps as well? Are they supposed to just die to make u feel better?When I'm on warrior if a thief attempts to stealth back stab me or uses a build with tons of evades I call them a smart thief cuz if they tried trading blows with my warrior I'd consider them a bad not so smart thief seeing as yeah their hard to catch but when I do I double or triple talking them into downstate lol. Be no challenge if they went slippery so no I'm not biased as I play alot of classes often and because I play thief as well I kno their side of the country and how fast I go down if I get caught.It honestly feels like unless thief is zero challenge to fight people complain.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Loffels.5934" said:Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.
  1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
  2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.

Congrats he DH placed his traps on a tiny space in a huge WvWvW mapHe is standing there afraid , not moving . You can shoot him from afar and you wont get the healing activate , bacause you wont touch the trap

What aegis ?I am sorry , but basilisc and Sweep arent unbrocable ?Backstab should behave like other games , you you get reveleaved when you miss the attack ... not try again after 2-3 sec...This is casual friendly

Necro's,scrappers and ele's get barriers when they waste spells . If you see those ppl start precasting ...congrats they wont do to you damage next turnScrapper , get a shield at 25% hpYou deal 12k damage ...and he will have 4k hp + 4k shield . You can interupt his 0.5 sec cast heal and wait till his shield is done . He wont do enought damage in this period , and you can try a Heartseeker for 5,5-6k damage while you wait

Aoe's and condition are so rampant ....if there was a thief trait ,that removed them ....https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace + https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist%27s_Fortitude .... among other utilities spells + Rune sets

Wvw has reveal traps ....... AHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH you place a 3 sec cast time trap , in a huge map ?

Wvw sniff .... AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH you see NON-stealth enemies on the minimap

reveal areas .... its your problem if you got near a tier 2 keep-tower ... and even so its for 30 sec ... nodays keeps and castle are easily flipped because its was nerfed ...so not many have time to become tier 2

Debunked in a every sistuationThis is why the company should not listen to casuals about balance :P

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@"Loffels.5934" said:Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.
  1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
  2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.

Congrats he DH placed his traps on a tiny space in a huge WvWvW mapHe is standing there afraid , not moving . You can shoot him from afar and you wont get the healing activate , bacause you wont touch the trap

What aegis ?I am sorry , but basilisc and Sweep arent unbrocable ?Backstab should behave like other games , you you get reveleaved when you miss the attack ... not try again after 2-3 sec...This is casual friendly

Necro's,scrappers and ele's get barriers when they waste spells . If you see those ppl start precasting ...congrats they wont do to you damage next turnScrapper , get a shield at 25% hpYou deal 12k damage ...and he will have 4k hp + 4k shield . You can interupt his 0.5 sec cast heal and wait till his shield is done . He wont do enought damage in this period , and you can try a Heartseeker for 5,5-6k damage while you wait

Aoe's and condition are so rampant ....if there was a thief trait ,that removed them ....
+
.... among other utilities spells + Rune sets

Wvw has reveal traps ....... AHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH you place a 3 sec cast time trap , in a huge map ?

Wvw sniff .... AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH you see NON-stealth enemies on the minimap

reveal areas .... its your problem if you got near a tier 2 keep-tower ... and even so its for 30 sec ... nodays keeps and castle are easily flipped because its was nerfed ...so not many have time to become tier 2

Debunked in a every sistuationThis is why the company should not listen to casuals about balance :P

Lol somebody is all buttthurt over losing to teefy'sMaybe get gud casual :)

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@kash.9213 said:

@appelflap.8310 said:Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means
, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

This is rich.

By the way if you still think landing a backstab on you only takes one skill like you just started playing yesterday at the least you can bring more than reskinning my point and stapling it to your mesmer.

Backstab is literally one skill. What? You have to enter stealth and pop cooldowns before you push 1? Excuse me while I contact the E-sports league...

You could have at least gone for the "but I only have 11k health!" defense. Cmon, man!

I remember back in the day in WoW when PoM-Pyro was a thing. They nerfed that. Why? Because even though it was a free kill outside of this one ability, it had the power to instant-cast a 1-shot kill from max range once every 3 minutes.

The moral of the story is that 1-shot kills (whether they are literally 1 button or a quick burst combo) are not desirable in PvP. It's not okay for thief even though they have 11k health. It's not okay for mesmer even though they have to build 3 clones. It's just not okay. Okay? LoL

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