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every non thief player is like..

thief have 5 utilities to port around the map and 5 utilities to perma stealth and 5 utilities to cleanse all conditions xD

let me see.. thief in most cases have shadowstep 1 port utility.. most thiefs use agility signet to cleanse 3 condi if needed (could use shadowstep to do it but meh) then thiefs have 2 utilities left over which u can randomly slot in..

well in all ur cases its a 1 shot thief so i suppose he is using assassins signet then what we have left over? oh our baller elite spin to evade and port all over the map..

quit whining i mean should i start?

why cant i pop 2/3 skills at ones like fresh air ele? or like a mesmer? so i can like backstab and heart seeker in 0,1second also.why cant i pop barries like ele and necros?why cant i have shit ton of heals on dodge and on skills?why cant i have some big ass leaps like rangers?why cant my shortbow do 6k from 1200 range every hit?why cant i have some auto invuls and stabs popping on me?why cant i have aegis?why cant we have like a dodge then another dodge passive build in + CC breaker inside a dodge + remove a condi <-- lul mirage whining xD

**> @AliamRationem.5172 said:

@appelflap.8310 said:Every class has cheese specs and that's ok because the animations still remain visible so there is always counterplay. The problem still is the fact that thiefs can 1 shot with 1 skill out of stealth that isn't visible (no animations) so no counterplay. If they had to use 2 skills to 1 shot (assuming the first skill doesnt hit for 15k+) wich gives maybe 0.5 seconds or less time to counter, I would be ok with it because we atleast would HAVE an option to counter.

But I get what amounts to basically one shot by mirages but that's fine because u play it right and tell urself some lame bias excuse why it's ok lol

if you get 1 shotted by mesmer/mirage it's because you dont know what dodge means
, if you played this game you would know mesmer burst needs 3+ skills to 1 shot wich means there is little time to counter BUT there is an option. thief can do it with 1 skill, that's a whole different story bro. Don't get me wrong mirage should get nerfed too.

This is rich.

By the way if you still think landing a backstab on you only takes one skill like you just started playing yesterday at the least you can bring more than reskinning my point and stapling it to your mesmer.

Backstab is literally one skill. What? You have to enter stealth and pop cooldowns before you push 1? Excuse me while I contact the E-sports league...

You could have at least gone for the "but I only have 11k health!" defense. Cmon, man!

I remember back in the day in WoW when PoM-Pyro was a thing. They nerfed that. Why? Because even though it was a free kill outside of this one ability, it had the power to instant-cast a 1-shot kill from max range once every 3 minutes.

The moral of the story is that 1-shot kills (whether they are literally 1 button or a quick burst combo) are not desirable in PvP. It's not okay for thief even though they have 11k health. It's not okay for mesmer even though they have to build 3 clones. It's just not okay. Okay? LoL

i have problems doing 1 shots on my daredevil and my core thief, yes here and there im doing them but these are on full zerk builds like me..so basically these people on full zerk wanna 1 or 2 hit other people but they do not accept when they get 1 shotted?Deadeye is a whole different kind of thing then a thief/daredevil. u guys are all complaining about Deadeye whos probably the only "thief" who can actually 1 bang you with a backstab cus i dont see the daredevil/thief doing this so easily as it used to be back in the day..

i mean core times it was easier to play thief then nowadays we hit like wet noodles when u look at all the other classes.sure or spike dmg might be higher but if u look at the full picture we are probably the class that could take a boost.u have classes who can sustain can dps can heal can do it all at bit lower dmg then a thief but in overall picture they shine far above thief.this what im trying to say all the time.

one class might be good at 1 thing and it might irritate other players but in overall picture the class is horribad..

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Loffels.5934" said:Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.
  1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
  2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.

Congrats he DH placed his traps on a tiny space in a huge WvWvW mapHe is standing there afraid , not moving . You can shoot him from afar and you wont get the healing activate , bacause you wont touch the trap

What aegis ?I am sorry , but basilisc and Sweep arent unbrocable ?Backstab should behave like other games , you you get reveleaved when you miss the attack ... not try again after 2-3 sec...This is casual friendly

Necro's,scrappers and ele's get barriers when they waste spells . If you see those ppl start precasting ...congrats they wont do to you damage next turnScrapper , get a shield at 25% hpYou deal 12k damage ...and he will have 4k hp + 4k shield . You can interupt his 0.5 sec cast heal and wait till his shield is done . He wont do enought damage in this period , and you can try a Heartseeker for 5,5-6k damage while you wait

Aoe's and condition are so rampant ....if there was a thief trait ,that removed them ....
+
.... among other utilities spells + Rune sets

Wvw has reveal traps ....... AHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH you place a 3 sec cast time trap , in a huge map ?

Wvw sniff .... AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH you see NON-stealth enemies on the minimap

reveal areas .... its your problem if you got near a tier 2 keep-tower ... and even so its for 30 sec ... nodays keeps and castle are easily flipped because its was nerfed ...so not many have time to become tier 2

Debunked in a every sistuationThis is why the company should not listen to casuals about balance :P

Lol somebody is all buttthurt over losing to teefy'sMaybe get gud casual :)

HuH , you asked the mods to delete the thread of deleting gw2 because you fed up with things and imbalances and that your girlfriend will throw the pc on you , seeing how frustrate you where :Phttps://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/94757/deleting-gw2

You little cheaky casual :P

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And? Seems like u got some obsessive vendetta against me following me around trying to ignite what I guess is an argument? This is like the 5th or more times uve brought up that I got frustrated and quit, why? Who cares? I tried uninstalling but threw a error at the time and in the end still play here and there but still frequent the forums to pass time at work, why is that a big deal to u? Are u a child or an adult with seriously nothing better to do cuz if so I'm dry for u.Also 90 percent of my post are defending thief unlike u and others who's history would show 90% are calling for nerfs on other classes(usually directed at a set few) over and over and over like a broken record all while defending their usually as OP class as fine lol. There's a big difference posting a lot to defend a class and only here and there calling a few builds op on other classes than constantly squawking about certain classes and their mechanics as being OP like people didnt hear u the first 100 times :)

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:And? Seems like u got some obsessive vendetta against me following me around trying to ignite what I guess is an argument? This is like the 5th or more times uve brought up that I got frustrated and quit, why? Who cares? I tried uninstalling but threw a error at the time and in the end still play here and there but still frequent the forums to pass time at work, why is that a big deal to u? Are u a child or an adult with seriously nothing better to do cuz if so I'm dry for u.Also 90 percent of my post are defending thief unlike u and others who's history would show 90% are calling for nerfs on other classes(usually directed at a set few) over and over and over like a broken record all while defending their usually as OP class as fine lol. There's a big difference posting a lot to defend a class and only here and there calling a few builds op on other classes than constantly squawking about certain classes and their mechanics as being OP like people didnt hear u the first 100 times :)

I encourage everyone not to attempt to harass others. Thank You!

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:And? Seems like u got some obsessive vendetta against me following me around trying to ignite what I guess is an argument? This is like the 5th or more times uve brought up that I got frustrated and quit, why? Who cares? I tried uninstalling but threw a error at the time and in the end still play here and there but still frequent the forums to pass time at work, why is that a big deal to u? Are u a child or an adult with seriously nothing better to do cuz if so I'm dry for u.Also 90 percent of my post are defending thief unlike u and others who's history would show 90% are calling for nerfs on other classes(usually directed at a set few) over and over and over like a broken record all while defending their usually as OP class as fine lol. There's a big difference posting a lot to defend a class and only here and there calling a few builds op on other classes than constantly squawking about certain classes and their mechanics as being OP like people didnt hear u the first 100 times :)

I told you many times dont try to be my friends saying : ''other ppl are defending their broken specs'' , so i must prove to them how foolish they are .Any time Mesmers + Eles + Warriors players said that their class need skill to play and you respont to them , sayings thats a ''lie'' i havent commented you on that .

Every time i comment you you , is some kitten formula you are doing in the forums :a)WvWvW threads = goes into a thread saying that Thief need burst , because its his archetypeb) Evades frames because its a roguec) PvP forums = stealth because rogue archetype ... and its useless in pvp matchesd) mobility its archetypee) it need condition removal on evade ... but its hard to use because it doesnt work if the enemy dont attackf) THERES HUGE AMOUNT OF AOES WITH CONDITIONS IN THE GROUND .... immagine if we gave condition removal on evade on Thieves....

Different things in different threads , just like the thief 2013-2015 communityYou hate powercreepYou tell me all the time to suck it up , and that the company wont change a thingTell other ppl , that you class is fineWhen cornered you say that you wants things to be nerfed and any change is welcomed ..... but firstly other thngs rather than your class , must be nerfed first

Normaly i would tell you the same thing as the other people , to hug the powercreep and reject it .Something that the Thief population did in 2013 in the Thief Mega Thread ... and then whined when Necro got Drumfire (4 sec burn -3200 total damage every 10 sec) in 2014 and Warriors got the mobility as long he has Meele weapons + Buff to its survibility .

But based on the documented analysis based on my Thesis on Harvard and Yale and my magical Fortune Ball and my 10 years expiriance as a Healers supporting mouth breathers , when other game will be released you you will a leghty post , that the games is doomed for listeing to the casuals and an other Thief will take your place is 2 years saying the same things all over again :P

(something that the pros did , when the first 2 tournaments had an age restriction , and area restriction .If where an Egypt Mesmer , you couldnt play with a US ele + Germany Enginner ...making a leghty posts that the games dont have the infostructure of LoL ...)

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:And? Seems like u got some obsessive vendetta against me following me around trying to ignite what I guess is an argument? This is like the 5th or more times uve brought up that I got frustrated and quit, why? Who cares? I tried uninstalling but threw a error at the time and in the end still play here and there but still frequent the forums to pass time at work, why is that a big deal to u? Are u a child or an adult with seriously nothing better to do cuz if so I'm dry for u.Also 90 percent of my post are defending thief unlike u and others who's history would show 90% are calling for nerfs on other classes(usually directed at a set few) over and over and over like a broken record all while defending their usually as OP class as fine lol. There's a big difference posting a lot to defend a class and only here and there calling a few builds op on other classes than constantly squawking about certain classes and their mechanics as being OP like people didnt hear u the first 100 times :)

I told you many times dont try to be my friends saying : ''other ppl are defending their broken specs'' , so i must prove to them how foolish they are .Any time Mesmers + Eles + Warriors players said that their class need skill to play and you respont to them , sayings thats a ''lie'' i havent commented you on that .

Every time i comment you you , is some kitten formula you are doing in the forums :a)WvWvW threads = goes into a thread saying that Thief need burst , because its his archetypeb) Evades frames because its a roguec) PvP forums = stealth because rogue archetype ... and its useless in pvp matchesd) mobility its archetypee) it need condition removal on evade ... but its hard to use because it doesnt work if the enemy dont attackf) THERES HUGE AMOUNT OF AOES WITH CONDITIONS IN THE GROUND .... immagine if we gave condition removal on evade on Thieves....

Different things in different threads , just like the thief 2013-2015 communityYou hate powercreepYou tell me all the time to suck it up , and that the company wont change a thingTell other ppl , that you class is fineWhen cornered you say that you wants things to be nerfed and any change is welcomed ..... but firstly other thngs rather than your class , must be nerfed first

Normaly i would tell you the same thing as the other people , to hug the powercreep and reject it .Something that the Thief population did in 2013 in the Thief Mega Thread ... and then whined when Necro got Drumfire (4 sec burn -3200 total damage every 10 sec) in 2014 and Warriors got the mobility as long he has Meele weapons + Buff to its survibility .

But based on the documented analysis based on my Thesis on Harvard and Yale and my magical Fortune Ball and my 10 years expiriance as a Healers supporting mouth breathers , when other game will be released you you will a leghty post , that the games is doomed for listeing to the casuals and an other Thief will take your place is 2 years saying the same things all over again :P

honestly didnt read a word of ur wall but I'm sure it's a cool story non the less :)

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:And? Seems like u got some obsessive vendetta against me following me around trying to ignite what I guess is an argument? This is like the 5th or more times uve brought up that I got frustrated and quit, why? Who cares? I tried uninstalling but threw a error at the time and in the end still play here and there but still frequent the forums to pass time at work, why is that a big deal to u? Are u a child or an adult with seriously nothing better to do cuz if so I'm dry for u.Also 90 percent of my post are defending thief unlike u and others who's history would show 90% are calling for nerfs on other classes(usually directed at a set few) over and over and over like a broken record all while defending their usually as OP class as fine lol. There's a big difference posting a lot to defend a class and only here and there calling a few builds op on other classes than constantly squawking about certain classes and their mechanics as being OP like people didnt hear u the first 100 times :)

I told you many times dont try to be my friends saying : ''other ppl are defending their broken specs'' , so i must prove to them how foolish they are .Any time Mesmers + Eles + Warriors players said that their class need skill to play and you respont to them , sayings thats a ''lie'' i havent commented you on that .

Every time i comment you you , is some kitten formula you are doing in the forums :a)WvWvW threads = goes into a thread saying that Thief need burst , because its his archetypeb) Evades frames because its a roguec) PvP forums = stealth because rogue archetype ... and its useless in pvp matchesd) mobility its archetypee) it need condition removal on evade ... but its hard to use because it doesnt work if the enemy dont attackf) THERES HUGE AMOUNT OF AOES WITH CONDITIONS IN THE GROUND .... immagine if we gave condition removal on evade on Thieves....

Different things in different threads , just like the thief 2013-2015 communityYou hate powercreepYou tell me all the time to suck it up , and that the company wont change a thingTell other ppl , that you class is fineWhen cornered you say that you wants things to be nerfed and any change is welcomed ..... but firstly other thngs rather than your class , must be nerfed first

Normaly i would tell you the same thing as the other people , to hug the powercreep and reject it .Something that the Thief population did in 2013 in the Thief Mega Thread ... and then whined when Necro got Drumfire (4 sec burn -3200 total damage every 10 sec) in 2014 and Warriors got the mobility as long he has Meele weapons + Buff to its survibility .

But based on the documented analysis based on my Thesis on Harvard and Yale and my magical Fortune Ball and my 10 years expiriance as a Healers supporting mouth breathers , when other game will be released you you will a leghty post , that the games is doomed for listeing to the casuals and an other Thief will take your place is 2 years saying the same things all over again :P

No offense, but what exactly is your point? It's a forum, everyone is biased, and most people that main a class can see problems with more clarity than people that don't. It's a fact that thief is built around evades and stealth. That's why a thief that can't evade or can't stealth dies faster than virtually anything else in the game. The state of stealth is also intended by the devs, otherwise it wouldn't exist. This is also a clear fact. It's fine if you disagree, I'd probably disagree with your perception of your favoured class, but try to have enough class to attack the argument and not the person, ok? :)

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Trust me he is not foolish , he know how to change the converation till the victim is euxasted from the circular conversation .And in the end , he makes an agreement that the Company sux for creating this powercreep ... and then moves to the next victim .

And theres people that enjoy these kind of confrontationsSo... we are destined by fate to counter each other ....in the sunset ....naked ? :P

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@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:Trust me he is not foolish , he know how to change the converation till the victim is euxasted from the circular conversation .And in the end , he makes an agreement that the Company sux for creating this powercreep ... and then moves to the next victim .

And theres people that enjoy these kind of confrontationsSo... we are destined by fate to counter each other ....in the sunset ....naked ? :P

You make this sound like a romance xD

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  • 5 weeks later...

@Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

@"Loffels.5934" said:Personally, I don't think it's the stealth mechanic that's the issue more than it's the lack of combo damage and power creep that's set in.

Thieves' playstyle has been designed to be high risk, high reward, with a high skill cap. And yet, here we are with 1-shot builds that give a high reward with almost no risk involved. They have the easiest setup to get kills and the ability to outplay it is useless since it allows for SIMPLE 1-shots.

If you normalize the power creep that's set in and create more of a combo 1-shot rather than a simple 1-button 1-shot then it would be okay if they could fully combo you. This would at least create the potential for outplaying and counter which is currently impossible for some classes in it's current state due to their massive SIMPLE 1-shot potential.
  1. Remove the "-Reveal" from Shadow Meld
  2. Normalize opening burst across multiple skills rather than 1.

This would now increase the skill-cap for Thieves in this build and that's the way it should be. I'd feel much better about getting 1-shot and understanding what I did wrong than having absolutely no chance what so ever.

Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u need to open ur eyes.

Congrats he DH placed his traps on a tiny space in a huge WvWvW mapHe is standing there afraid , not moving . You can shoot him from afar and you wont get the healing activate , bacause you wont touch the trap

What aegis ?I am sorry , but basilisc and Sweep arent unbrocable ?Backstab should behave like other games , you you get reveleaved when you miss the attack ... not try again after 2-3 sec...This is casual friendly

Necro's,scrappers and ele's get barriers when they waste spells . If you see those ppl start precasting ...congrats they wont do to you damage next turnScrapper , get a shield at 25% hpYou deal 12k damage ...and he will have 4k hp + 4k shield . You can interupt his 0.5 sec cast heal and wait till his shield is done . He wont do enought damage in this period , and you can try a Heartseeker for 5,5-6k damage while you wait

Aoe's and condition are so rampant ....if there was a thief trait ,that removed them ....
+
.... among other utilities spells + Rune sets

Wvw has reveal traps ....... AHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH you place a 3 sec cast time trap , in a huge map ?

Wvw sniff .... AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH you see NON-stealth enemies on the minimap

reveal areas .... its your problem if you got near a tier 2 keep-tower ... and even so its for 30 sec ... nodays keeps and castle are easily flipped because its was nerfed ...so not many have time to become tier 2

Debunked in a every sistuationThis is why the company should not listen to casuals about balance :P

What about the rest of the dh kit? Traps are annoying to theif, biggest pressure dh is that they can keep pace with theif IN COMBAT (not running away) and longbow dh is 1 of the worst mu for theif

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@"Burnfall.9573" said:

You posted 2 5 years old video's and one pve video. And what's the point of your post? That class designed for stealth can stealth and troll people? And how this video's referring to present time? In last video author compares different classes in solo run's. And he said that in description. All classes can solo.You yelling about half-truth and toxicity. But it's you the one who distort facts for own benefit and spread toxicity.

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@Loke.1429 said:Should be low risk low reward. Needs balance nerf to the ground, max stealth uptime should be 30-45sec per 60 sec. If i stop playing its because they failed to balance this kitten

@Loke.1429 said:Should be low risk low reward. Needs balance nerf to the ground, max stealth uptime should be 30-45sec per 60 sec. If i stop playing its because they failed to balance this kitten

I mean, currently in combat its high risk low reward, while out of combat its low risk, high reward. The problem is how do you make out of combat stealth be less of a problem without removing it entirely.

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@appelflap.8310 said:Hi anet it's time for you guys to change stealth, i'm tired of getting 1 shotted by thiefs in wvw just because i can't dodge what i can't see. Im talking about thiefs literally waiting for ppl to come by and backstab them for 15-18k on daredevil. Mesmers can stealth and 1 shot too but you can see the burst damage coming if the mesmer is in stealth since they need clones up and mirrorblade animation is visible even when the mesmer is stealth. My point is that mesmers have to use 3+ skills to even 1 shot wich gives space for counterplay since you can see burst coming from stealth, thief only needs 1 skill for the 1 shot and you can't even see the burst coming from stealth. Ofcourse other classes can go stealth too but they can't 1 shot with 1 skill that isn't even visible.

So can you just change this, look at other MMO's if you're clueless but this is just not fun if there is no counterplay to it. Either make thief backstab visible when they're stealth so ppl can actually counter them or change stealth, like give ppl in stealth damage over time or idk

Thief needs, steal, backstab and 2 signets for the oneshot which is 4 skills lol.

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@"appelflap.8310" said:another one? i want this game to be fixed. i can go and play thief too in wvw but it's just too cheesy over there

Then do it. All the people that keep saying "I can go an do it too!" usually never actually do it. Go and play it if it's so strong.

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@"Mcrocha.3891" said:Stealth has been stupid since launch and it will remain to be stupid and unfun to play against. There’s a reason why people have constantly complained about thieves and Mesmers. Damage/stealth/mobility, pick one

If "people are complaining about it" is such a definitive argument for removing something, then I can only assume you're equally eager about removing 90% of the game.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Mcrocha.3891" said:Stealth has been stupid since launch and it will remain to be stupid and unfun to play against. There’s a reason why people have constantly complained about thieves and Mesmers. Damage/stealth/mobility, pick one

If "people are complaining about it" is such a definitive argument for removing something, then I can only assume you're equally eager about removing 90% of the game.Nope, just the mechanic that people have constantly complained about since launch and which has no place in a competitive game mode

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@Mcrocha.3891 said:

@Mcrocha.3891 said:Stealth has been stupid since launch and it will remain to be stupid and unfun to play against. There’s a reason why people have constantly complained about thieves and Mesmers. Damage/stealth/mobility, pick one

If "people are complaining about it" is such a definitive argument for removing something, then I can only assume you're equally eager about removing 90% of the game.Nope, just the mechanic that people have constantly complained about since launch and which has no place in a competitive game mode

That's a great opinion, I disagree though.

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