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Ranger, the new Warrior?


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@Eurantien.4632 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Boonbeast is very very good rn. Beats many classes like fire weaver 1v1, while still having much better mobility and team support than most other side noders

No

In no way does any Ranger build out brawl Fire Weaver, especially Boonbeast like setups that have lower damage output. There is this huge misconception that modern Ranger builds somehow have amazing condi cleanse, which is simply not true at all. They have moderate to low or in some situations no cleanse at all if they are full DPS. Your best bet against a Fire Weaver is to go at it with glass cannon DPS and hope you can land the 2-3 consecutive strikes through evades to down it immediately. If you can't do that you immediately lose the node and have to run. And no, longbow is ineffective against Fire Weaver. Too many reflects & evades.

I find glass ranger to be the strongest build I've ever played on ranger. Has no match ups that are guaranteed to be losses, I often can beat fire weavers (but it's a waste of time) and it is one of the if not the best dps class right now. But a lot take gazelle away... and I'm not so sure anymore haha.

Even without gazelle, ranger would be plenty strong to bring down any class

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

  1. Lower the damage on Gazelle's Charge to 1.4k instead of 2k base.
  2. Lower the % damage modifiers on Moment of Clarity and Attack of Opportunity to match Remorseless at 25% (instead of 50%)
  3. Lower the block duration on GS4 to 2s.
  4. Increase the cast time on Troll Unguent to 1s.
  5. Remove Plasma from Siamoth.

Troll Unguent was at 1s cast time...but it makes no sense as WHAO has instant healing + copied boons at the same cast time....

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Boonbeast is very very good rn. Beats many classes like fire weaver 1v1, while still having much better mobility and team support than most other side noders

No

In no way does any Ranger build out brawl Fire Weaver, especially Boonbeast like setups that have lower damage output. There is this huge misconception that modern Ranger builds somehow have amazing condi cleanse, which is simply not true at all. They have moderate to low or in some situations no cleanse at all if they are full DPS. Your best bet against a Fire Weaver is to go at it with glass cannon DPS and hope you can land the 2-3 consecutive strikes through evades to down it immediately. If you can't do that you immediately lose the node and have to run. And no, longbow is ineffective against Fire Weaver. Too many reflects & evades.

Evasive purity+ WS + Zephyr's speed ..it'a more than moderate cleansing..it's already 3x more than a core ele

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Boonbeast is very very good rn. Beats many classes like fire weaver 1v1, while still having much better mobility and team support than most other side noders

No

In no way does any Ranger build out brawl Fire Weaver, especially Boonbeast like setups that have lower damage output. There is this huge misconception that modern Ranger builds somehow have amazing condi cleanse, which is simply not true at all. They have moderate to low or in some situations no cleanse at all if they are full DPS. Your best bet against a Fire Weaver is to go at it with glass cannon DPS and hope you can land the 2-3 consecutive strikes through evades to down it immediately. If you can't do that you immediately lose the node and have to run. And no, longbow is ineffective against Fire Weaver. Too many reflects & evades.

Evasive purity+ WS + Zephyr's speed ..it'a more than moderate cleansing..it's already 3x more than a core ele

What does this even mean 3x more? Core ele has strong cleanse traits in 4/5 trait lines, at least one condi cleanse in every single weapon combination, and cleansing fire + ether renewal for even more cleanse from slot skills if needed. Ele is not lacking in cleanse compared to ranger, and is not some kind of victim.

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1) you cannot equip 4/5 traitlines2) core ranger is 3x more viable than core ele3) i have 8k hrs on ele and 4k on ranger so I know what the heck I am on about4) Do no count things like cleansing fire and ether renewal..stick to skills people actually use in a semi viable manner ...I didn't mention druid cleansing of renewal signet did I?5) Go play more than one class for thousand of hours in all formats..so you lose that biased and uninformed opinion of yours6) I have compared core ranger which is a viable build with NM-WS and BM to core ele which has no viable build in pvp unless you want to prove otherwise to the rest of us..remember to slot cleansing fire and ether renewal in this "viable" core ele build of yours....

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@Atronach.8520 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Boonbeast is very very good rn. Beats many classes like fire weaver 1v1, while still having much better mobility and team support than most other side noders

In 9/10 situations equal skill boonbeast loses or has to give up node to fire weaver.Weird becuz when I do ats and ranked matches against weavers, even high skill eg. top ten players who main fire weaver it seems boonbeast actually hard wins that 1v1 9/10 times or maybe I m just good but I think someone’s spreading disinformation

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Boonbeast is very very good rn. Beats many classes like fire weaver 1v1, while still having much better mobility and team support than most other side noders

No

In no way does any Ranger build out brawl Fire Weaver, especially Boonbeast like setups that have lower damage output. There is this huge misconception that modern Ranger builds somehow have amazing condi cleanse, which is simply not true at all. They have moderate to low or in some situations no cleanse at all if they are full DPS. Your best bet against a Fire Weaver is to go at it with glass cannon DPS and hope you can land the 2-3 consecutive strikes through evades to down it immediately. If you can't do that you immediately lose the node and have to run. And no, longbow is ineffective against Fire Weaver. Too many reflects & evades.

U don’t really need extra condi cleanse the resistance from owl and revenant runes are enough. Because weavers condition are very burst the more resistance the better and there enough condi clear to get rid of cover condis. I feel if you make ur rotations correctly on boonbeast your dps can heavily out way s fire weaver, but if u make a mistake u could possibly insta die, which is why I’m not saying boonbeast is the best 1v1 er just that it is very strong and has better mobility and team support or any 1v1er rn

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:Boonbeast is very very good rn. Beats many classes like fire weaver 1v1, while still having much better mobility and team support than most other side noders

No

In no way does any Ranger build out brawl Fire Weaver, especially Boonbeast like setups that have lower damage output. There is this huge misconception that modern Ranger builds somehow have amazing condi cleanse, which is simply not true at all. They have moderate to low or in some situations no cleanse at all if they are full DPS. Your best bet against a Fire Weaver is to go at it with glass cannon DPS and hope you can land the 2-3 consecutive strikes through evades to down it immediately. If you can't do that you immediately lose the node and have to run. And no, longbow is ineffective against Fire Weaver. Too many reflects & evades.

Evasive purity+ WS + Zephyr's speed ..it'a more than moderate cleansing..it's already 3x more than a core ele

Except that they don't use all of that at the same time. That's like if I called out how much group support condi cleanse a warrior has, even though it's not practical to use. Look man, as I JUST got done stating that, there are many different variations of Ranger builds right now. Some more sustainy, others more DPS:

  1. The good Rangers out there don't even run Wilderness Survival right now. They're all running Marks/Beast or in some cases Skirm/Beast on Soulbeasts. Only Core Rangers are running Wilderness Survival. This means they are getting 4 condi cleanse if they use Troll Unguent - 2 Lightning Reflex - 2 Lesser Zephyr "If they don't select feroc trait over this" - 2 Quick Zephyr "IF they even use this over Protect Me. So you're talking FOR SURE two separate cleanses of a 4 and a 2, and then a possible four separate cleanses if they stat for vs. condi mirage or something, at a 4, a 2, a 2, and a 2. And they don't get to "Save" these skills for specifically condi cleanse. All of those functions often need to be used situationally for different things, so they often aren't even there to conveniently use vs. condi. <- That's all they get man, so stop acting like it's a Tempest or a FB or a Holo level condi absorb into boon kind of deal because it isn't. That's moderate to light, exactly what I just got done explaining to you.
  2. Soulbeasts, to be effective over core, have to run marks or skirm and beastmaster with soulbeast. My good stronk bro, they only get "Bear Stance" for direct condi cleanse, and then they have short lived -% condi damage in "Dolyak Stance" and "Second Skin", which Second Skin isn't exactly amazing when you aren't running Wilderness Survival, and aren't getting protection on each dodge roll. Soulbeasts get light to no condi cleanse, and the modifiers off Dolyak and Second Skin are hardly making up for that at this point. And don't even go into "oh but plasma" because it isn't being used by anyone anymore. It's not an effective method after all the boonbeast boon amplification nerfing, and in no way performs as well as Smokescale/Gazelle.
  3. No one uses Evasive Purity, its Nature Magic.

This goes all back into the point I've been making for a long time now, about how "there is no one ranger build meta" so stop acting like there is. Not all Rangers deal 1-2HKOs with very high mobility and not all Rangers have moderate condi cleanse with good health regen. These are separate build structures, every bit as separate as a Fire Weaver vs. a Fresh Air Ele. So stop confusing yourself, stop confusing others.

Are you complaining about sustainy core ranger? or are you complaining about high dps soulbeasts? Perhaps you are unable to distinguish between the different types of rangers, and thus you are approaching them wrong, because you aren't understanding how to spot a dps over a sustainy build, and so you're engaging everything improperly?

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@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Boonbeast is very very good rn. Beats many classes like fire weaver 1v1, while still having much better mobility and team support than most other side noders

No

In no way does any Ranger build out brawl Fire Weaver, especially Boonbeast like setups that have lower damage output. There is this huge misconception that modern Ranger builds somehow have amazing condi cleanse, which is simply not true at all. They have moderate to low or in some situations no cleanse at all if they are full DPS. Your best bet against a Fire Weaver is to go at it with glass cannon DPS and hope you can land the 2-3 consecutive strikes through evades to down it immediately. If you can't do that you immediately lose the node and have to run. And no, longbow is ineffective against Fire Weaver. Too many reflects & evades.

U don’t really need extra condi cleanse the resistance from owl and revenant runes are enough. Because weavers condition are very burst the more resistance the better and there enough condi clear to get rid of cover condis. I feel if you make ur rotations correctly on boonbeast your dps can heavily out way s fire weaver, but if u make a mistake u could possibly insta die, which is why I’m not saying boonbeast is the best 1v1 er just that it is very strong and has better mobility and team support or any 1v1er rn

Eh I dunno man. I'm not seeing anyone use any such configuration.

Here are reasons why that wouldn't work past a bottom plat 1 level:

  1. Owl is too low of health. It gets shrekt immediately when on node with any competent player. If you set it to retreat so it survives, they you're losing pet DPS and certainly pet CC utilities, and its pet skills are bad in general. So on a Core Ranger even, this pet is pretty useless right now.
  2. You would have to be a Soulbeast to use that merge skill for resistance. Why would I want a 3s resistance on a 40s CD with a bunch of other low damage skills with no CC, when I could be in Smokescale with Smoke Assault on a 20s CD that evades for just as long as the resistance as it deals damage and chases at the same time, while also having a 2s KD skill on the bar?

You seem to be very specifically talking about.. boonbeasts.. so I dunno man. All I can say is that Soulbeast RIGHT NOW is much much better optimized as high mobility DPS with longbow/greatsword. If you seriously are wanting to still play boonbeast setups "the idea of something tanky that brawls on node" you need to discover core ranger. Core Ranger right now is a better boonbeast than a boonbeast.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Boonbeast is very very good rn. Beats many classes like fire weaver 1v1, while still having much better mobility and team support than most other side noders

No

In no way does any Ranger build out brawl Fire Weaver, especially Boonbeast like setups that have lower damage output. There is this huge misconception that modern Ranger builds somehow have amazing condi cleanse, which is simply not true at all. They have moderate to low or in some situations no cleanse at all if they are full DPS. Your best bet against a Fire Weaver is to go at it with glass cannon DPS and hope you can land the 2-3 consecutive strikes through evades to down it immediately. If you can't do that you immediately lose the node and have to run. And no, longbow is ineffective against Fire Weaver. Too many reflects & evades.

U don’t really need extra condi cleanse the resistance from owl and revenant runes are enough. Because weavers condition are very burst the more resistance the better and there enough condi clear to get rid of cover condis. I feel if you make ur rotations correctly on boonbeast your dps can heavily out way s fire weaver, but if u make a mistake u could possibly insta die, which is why I’m not saying boonbeast is the best 1v1 er just that it is very strong and has better mobility and team support or any 1v1er rn

Eh I dunno man. I'm not seeing anyone use any such configuration.

Here are reasons why that wouldn't work past a bottom plat 1 level:
  1. Owl is too low of health. It gets shrekt immediately when on node with any competent player. If you set it to retreat so it survives, they you're losing pet DPS and certainly pet CC utilities, and its pet skills are bad in general. So on a Core Ranger even, this pet is pretty useless right now.
  2. You would have to be a Soulbeast to use that merge skill for resistance. Why would I want a 3s resistance on a 40s CD with a bunch of other low damage skills with no CC, when I could be in Smokescale with Smoke Assault on a 20s CD that evades for just as long as the resistance as it deals damage and chases at the same time, while also having a 2s KD skill on the bar?

You seem to be very specifically talking about.. boonbeasts.. so I dunno man. All I can say is that Soulbeast RIGHT NOW is much much better optimized as high mobility DPS with longbow/greatsword. If you seriously are wanting to still play boonbeast setups "the idea of something tanky that brawls on node" you need to discover core ranger. Core Ranger right now is a better boonbeast than a boonbeast.

I disagree I picked up boon beast this season(though I was a plat3 Druid back when) and have maintained top 10 - around plat3 solo q on it. I can make the same argument about the core build, it lacks resistance and take gs for mobility, which is approaching meme territory for me and doesn’t even use plasma, which actually makes it surprising weak against mesmers etc. the core build probably survives well enough but it is incredibly lacking in areas, like I can argue that core symbol guard is better than firebrand just becuz it has some crazy match ups, but it just isn’t superior which is why no one plays and that’s also why no one will consider the core ranger build to be meta atm.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:Evasive purity+ WS + Zephyr's speed ..it'a more than moderate cleansing..it's already 3x more than a core ele

@Arheundel.6451 said:2) core ranger is 3x more viable than core ele

Then why compare those two?

Condi cleanse has always been a weakness of ranger. Forced into wilderness survival and only multiple small condi cleanses, no big one. Only when druid was meta we had big condi cleanses, but still our main counter then was condi berserker.

The self confidence of some people that post here is becoming laughable. Comparing meta builds to non meta builds, talking about traits that cant be picked simultaneously, putting forward examples of low skilled players, etc etc.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:Boonbeast is very very good rn. Beats many classes like fire weaver 1v1, while still having much better mobility and team support than most other side noders

No

In no way does any Ranger build out brawl Fire Weaver, especially Boonbeast like setups that have lower damage output. There is this huge misconception that modern Ranger builds somehow have amazing condi cleanse, which is simply not true at all. They have moderate to low or in some situations no cleanse at all if they are full DPS. Your best bet against a Fire Weaver is to go at it with glass cannon DPS and hope you can land the 2-3 consecutive strikes through evades to down it immediately. If you can't do that you immediately lose the node and have to run. And no, longbow is ineffective against Fire Weaver. Too many reflects & evades.

Evasive purity+ WS + Zephyr's speed ..it'a more than moderate cleansing..it's already 3x more than a core ele

Except that they don't use all of that at the same time. That's like if I called out how much group support condi cleanse a warrior has, even though it's not practical to use. Look man, as I JUST got done stating that, there are many different variations of Ranger builds right now. Some more sustainy, others more DPS:
  1. The good Rangers out there don't even run Wilderness Survival right now. They're all running Marks/Beast or in some cases Skirm/Beast on Soulbeasts. Only Core Rangers are running Wilderness Survival. This means they are getting 4 condi cleanse if they use Troll Unguent - 2 Lightning Reflex - 2 Lesser Zephyr "If they don't select feroc trait over this" - 2 Quick Zephyr "IF they even use this over Protect Me. So you're talking FOR SURE two separate cleanses of a 4 and a 2, and then a possible four separate cleanses if they stat for vs. condi mirage or something, at a 4, a 2, a 2, and a 2. And they don't get to "Save" these skills for specifically condi cleanse. All of those functions often need to be used situationally for different things, so they often aren't even there to conveniently use vs. condi. <- That's all they get man, so stop acting like it's a Tempest or a FB or a Holo level condi absorb into boon kind of deal because it isn't. That's moderate to light, exactly what I just got done explaining to you.
  2. Soulbeasts, to be effective over core, have to run marks or skirm and beastmaster with soulbeast. My good stronk bro, they only get "Bear Stance" for direct condi cleanse, and then they have short lived -% condi damage in "Dolyak Stance" and "Second Skin", which Second Skin isn't exactly amazing when you aren't running Wilderness Survival, and aren't getting protection on each dodge roll. Soulbeasts get light to no condi cleanse, and the modifiers off Dolyak and Second Skin are hardly making up for that at this point. And don't even go into "oh but plasma" because it isn't being used by anyone anymore. It's not an effective method after all the boonbeast boon amplification nerfing, and in no way performs as well as Smokescale/Gazelle.
  3. No one uses Evasive Purity, its Nature Magic.

This goes all back into the point I've been making for a long time now, about how "there is no one ranger build meta" so stop acting like there is. Not all Rangers deal 1-2HKOs with very high mobility and not all Rangers have moderate condi cleanse with good health regen. These are separate build structures, every bit as separate as a Fire Weaver vs. a Fresh Air Ele. So stop confusing yourself, stop confusing others.

Are you complaining about sustainy core ranger? or are you complaining about high dps soulbeasts? Perhaps you are unable to distinguish between the different types of rangers, and thus you are approaching them wrong, because you aren't understanding how to spot a dps over a sustainy build, and so you're engaging everything improperly?

Don't jump your guns everytime somebody mention ranger! I have over 3.5k hrs on ranger....do not assume anything in life....you are not all knowing

"No one uses Evasive Purity, its Nature Magic"...that's all I needed.

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@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Evasive purity+ WS + Zephyr's speed ..it'a more than moderate cleansing..it's already 3x more than a core ele

@Arheundel.6451 said:2) core ranger is 3x more viable than core ele

Then why compare those two?

Condi cleanse has always been a weakness of ranger. Forced into wilderness survival and only multiple small condi cleanses, no big one. Only when druid was meta we had big condi cleanses, but still our main counter then was condi berserker.

The self confidence of some people that post here is becoming laughable. Comparing meta builds to non meta builds, talking about traits that cant be picked simultaneously, putting forward examples of low skilled players, etc etc.

I compare the two because I can as I play both....you can go and believe what you want, my statements stand..as my self-confidence

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@aymnad.9023 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:no one will consider the core ranger build to be meta atm.Hum? What type of meta are you talking about ? Because core is viable and played in ranked. Not as a good as full sidenoder sure, but it is better than boonbeast mid and still decent to hold / decap some time.

I’m of the belief that viable can be pretty much anything with an appropriate set of traits utilities and gear/stats, but meta is the most effective build available. Sometimes can be what are ppl stacking or hyped about for tournaments or it could just be an iconic or top build per class. I honestly think the reworks to ranger during pof have turned ranger to a boon stacking class as far as what’s meta atm

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i feel like this is a gold 3- discussion,if we are talking about 1v1s. between plat 2-3 war, fb, weaver, holo, and Condi mirage can all beat ranger and that's facts.
however yes as others have recommended the class needs nerfs especially with gazelle.hopefully, in the next balance patch, everything gets fixed and by everything I mean other classes aswell

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@kiritsugu emeya.3962 said:i feel like this is a gold 3- discussion,if we are talking about 1v1s. between plat 2-3 war, fb, weaver, holo, and Condi mirage can all beat ranger and that's facts.

however yes as others have recommended the class needs nerfs especially with gazelle.hopefully, in the next balance patch, everything gets fixed and by everything I mean other classes aswell

It reminds me of my favourite title from nvo.Hope Over Experience

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@kiritsugu emeya.3962 said:i feel like this is a gold 3- discussion,if we are talking about 1v1s. between plat 2-3 war, fb, weaver, holo, and Condi mirage can all beat ranger and that's facts.

however yes as others have recommended the class needs nerfs especially with gazelle.hopefully, in the next balance patch, everything gets fixed and by everything I mean other classes aswell

Idk if u mean core ranger but I sometimes play a version of soul beast with like menders and adjusted boonbeast traits with very high resistance and it definitely should never lose node to weaver or condi mirage ever and it should also always decap fire weaver and decap or even kill mesmers. But it’s prolly abit bad against like wars, power builds etc but I pretty much agree for like other ranger build or regular boonbeast- it’s possible to lose though I usually don’t have too much problem winning those 1v1s

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@"Dantheman.3589" said:

I’m of the belief that viable can be pretty much anything with an appropriate set of traits utilities and gear/stats, but meta is the most effective build available. Sometimes can be what are ppl stacking or hyped about for tournaments or it could just be an iconic or top build per class. I honestly think the reworks to ranger during pof have turned ranger to a boon stacking class as far as what’s meta atm

If I stick to your definition of meta "being amongst the best at X" then yes it makes sense but that would also underplay the possibilities it offers. This is a balanced build (offense / defense) that still performs well vs average players and also gives a good amount of possibilities to adapt to different situations (perfect for solo queue).

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@aymnad.9023 said:

@"Dantheman.3589" said:

I’m of the belief that viable can be pretty much anything with an appropriate set of traits utilities and gear/stats, but meta is the most effective build available. Sometimes can be what are ppl stacking or hyped about for tournaments or it could just be an iconic or top build per class. I honestly think the reworks to ranger during pof have turned ranger to a boon stacking class as far as what’s meta atm

If I stick to your definition of meta "being amongst the best at X" then yes it makes sense but that would also underplay the possibilities it offers. This is a balanced build (offense / defense) that still performs well vs average players and also gives a good amount of possibilities to adapt to different situations (perfect for solo queue).

I seem to be able to find like 10 different soulbeast ,that can vary from viable to optimal depending on ranked comps, alone. I’m not surprised there is a good core ranger build especially something that takes advantage of gazelle burst etc. it’s just I much prefer the feel of soul Beast and think it’s very superior in general, so if I wanna play something like the core ranger build I could just do it on soulbeast, which actually I’m seeing most ranger on NA starting to replace the core build with.I totally believe you it’s just I still probably wouldn’t play core

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@kiritsugu emeya.3962 said:i feel like this is a gold 3- discussion,if we are talking about 1v1s. between plat 2-3 war, fb, weaver, holo, and Condi mirage can all beat ranger and that's facts.

however yes as others have recommended the class needs nerfs especially with gazelle.hopefully, in the next balance patch, everything gets fixed and by everything I mean other classes aswell

Sword-main thief as well, but this requires some advantageous terrain to be used. And even then, it's not exactly a cakewalk due to GS 4 and potentially even Signet of Stone.

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@kiritsugu emeya.3962 said:i feel like this is a gold 3- discussion,if we are talking about 1v1s. between plat 2-3 war, fb, weaver, holo, and Condi mirage can all beat ranger and that's facts.

however yes as others have recommended the class needs nerfs especially with gazelle.hopefully, in the next balance patch, everything gets fixed and by everything I mean other classes aswell

Ranger must not include the soulbeast.soulbeast is the best 1v1

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