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AFK'ers in the Celestial Challenge


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@Thereon.3495 said:

@Gop.8713 said:No one is taking advantage of anyone. Players have different goals. Some players just want to open the chest, whether for daily, ap, just as a casual way to participate in the event or w/e. Other players are very fussed over getting max stacks, finishing as quickly as possible, etc. . . .

You deny taking advantage and yet in the same breath mention taking advantage, all the while calling it 'a different goal'. If we all had this 'different goal' then the event would not complete therefore it is not a goal. Not playing the game and having others carry you (wasting their time) is not a goal, nor is it a playstyle, nor any way to act in general. In game or outside of it.

I feel like this conversation is going nowhere so this is where I leave you my friend for fear of a locked thread!

It is a goal. The goal is to maximize rewards by putting in the least amount of effort possible. I accomplish my goal if I tag one mob and get gold rewards. That is a perfectly legitimate goal to have in game. I am not forcing you to do anything you dont already want to do. You were going to complete the event whether or not I tagged something. You're also more than welcome to leave the instance and not complete the event for me. I'm not forcing you to stay. There are 100 other players that will take your place.

It is also open worldish content where all players including myself are welcome. Who the hell gatekeeps open world? If you want the ability to boot players out of CC you should ask anet for those tools.

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Solution would be to make the whole thing more fun - so people would actually like to play it. Leeching is a problem in other parts as well - if you can only do a little bit in an event to get tracked as having participated. Then letting others to most of the stuff and leech the chest.

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@"Luthan.5236" said:Solution would be to make the whole thing more fun - so people would actually like to play it. Leeching is a problem in other parts as well - if you can only do a little bit in an event to get tracked as having participated. Then letting others to most of the stuff and leech the chest.

Fun is subjective. Unfortunately, you would still have leechers as not everyone finds the same content to be "fun".

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I needed something to do while AFKing again, so:

@"Thereon.3495" said:I read most of what has been said and the take home seems to be a minority agreeing with me and others trying to justify their actions with either "Its my playstyle to make others do more work" or "I'm not breaking the ToS so it's fine".

What an utterly false, inflammatory, lazy way to "summarize" what others have patiently tried to explain to you from the other side of this debate. You're already making Gop's point that you have no interest in what other people actually think, you just want to stoke your supporters.

This is an MMO and you play with real people. What you do in any game mode, in any challenge, directly affects other real life people. Saying you don't care about others in game is just an extension of who you must be outside of the game and that behaviour wouldn't be tolerated in the real world so why should it be in here? Whether it be CC, Dragon Ball, world events etc...you cannot justify making others do more work so you can sit around 'on your second monitor'. You make the event longer for others, taking others away from either other in-game events or even worse their real lives, just so you can be lazy and barely contribute. And you justify this with "Its not against the rules"?

As others have said, "caring about others" in game cuts both ways, and in reality boils down to, all players are going to use their playtime in the way that is most fulfilling, productive, and enjoyable to them. It's up to the rules of the game to constrain that behavior to prevent whatever the developer sees as abuses while accounting for the widest array of player abilities and interests. And in this specific case the potential negative impact on other players is so, so, so small. It's not a competitive or coordinated event. It's a hotjoin instance of mindless events that runs infinitely exactly the same way with 1 or 10 people.

You just cannot justify these actions when you are causing others to do more work and whether ANET does anything about it or not it doesn't stop this from being a trashy way to treat fellow players.

How are you the arbiter of "putting in enough work?" If there's a disabled gamer who can't control their character very well and can only do the horse race event, is it up to you to decide that they didn't do enough to open the chest? Are you going to demand an explanation of each player's behavior in your instance - if they answer the door or go to a crying baby or need to use the bathroom or just don't feel like doing anything for a bit? Or is it actually ANet's decision on what is enough contribution to open the chest? That being 1 stack of buff... from minimal participation... in any one event... their decision, not yours.

Please explain how I am mistaken. I'm eager to hear how someone taking advantage of others is a 'perspective' and how you seem to think that this is my(our) problem for not accepting being taken advantage of.

Several people, including me, have EXHAUSTIVELY explained the flaws in your perspective. You can read them again if you want, they're still there. I doubt typing them again is going to change your mind, and I'm also certain that asking for an explanation you've already been given is not a point in your favor.

You deny taking advantage and yet in the same breath mention taking advantage, all the while calling it 'a different goal'. If we all had this 'different goal' then the event would not complete therefore it is not a goal. Not playing the game and having others carry you (wasting their time) is not a goal, nor is it a playstyle, nor any way to act in general. In game or outside of it.

Again your argument of the absurd. "If" that happened, it might be an issue, except it doesn't happen. Why would ANet make a change to prevent a problem that literally never happens? You record for me next time you see 10 players sit AFK in the same instance and no one does anything for hours. Post it for all to see. In reality, there are enough different styles of play for it not to matter - and aiming for minimal requirements for obtaining a reward IS a play choice, even if you don't want to accept that. If the bar's filling too slow for you, leave. No one's forcing you to do the "work," and the people waiting for the bar to fill don't care how long it takes. Others will come, eventually the bar will fill, and complete, and reset, and the people who were there will have each gotten what they wanted out of the event.

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In the real world laws are there to create order and fairness. Take stealing for example- before the law was there sure there were a lot of people going around taking what they want but these people were in the minority as the vast majority were good, upstanding citizens who understood right from wrong.

Now translate that into GW2. You have a no doubt shady practice of minimising event participation. Sure there is currently no law against it (not against ToS) but that doesn't stop it being bad for the game environment especially when it comes to mocking those actively taking part. My thoughts on how to 'fix' the issue that I see (create a law, so to speak) are my own opinions on how I would tackle it and the opinion of 'how much participation is enough' is going to vary between most of us. In the specific case of CC I feel the current bare minimum is not enough.

Some have mentioned that I am forcing my view of what is right on others but I don't understand how this can be. Right is right, wrong is wrong when it comes to directly affecting other players in terms of creating more work for them. You are making the game harder/longer for others with your so called 'playstyle'. When your actions directly affect someone else negatively there is no 'right' about it. Sure life sometimes gets in the way- I occasionally duck out of the DS meta to grab a drink or look for some new music to play in the background. What I don't expect is to be rewarded during that time as I have not helped my fellow players.

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@Thereon.3495 said:In the real world laws are there to create order and fairness. Take stealing for example- before the law was there sure there were a lot of people going around taking what they want but these people were in the minority as the vast majority were good, upstanding citizens who understood right from wrong.

Now translate that into GW2. You have a no doubt shady practice of minimising event participation. Sure there is currently no law against it (not against ToS) but that doesn't stop it being bad for the game environment especially when it comes to mocking those actively taking part. My thoughts on how to 'fix' the issue that I see (create a law, so to speak) are my own opinions on how I would tackle it and the opinion of 'how much participation is enough' is going to vary between most of us. In the specific case of CC I feel the current bare minimum is not enough.

Some have mentioned that I am forcing my view of what is right on others but I don't understand how this can be. Right is right, wrong is wrong when it comes to directly affecting other players in terms of creating more work for them. You are making the game harder/longer for others with your so called 'playstyle'. When your actions directly affect someone else negatively there is no 'right' about it. Sure life sometimes gets in the way- I occasionally duck out of the DS meta to grab a drink or look for some new music to play in the background. What I don't expect is to be rewarded during that time as I have not helped my fellow players.

Sounds very much like how half of the people who attend open world metas play. Who do less than 10k dps, dont bring cc to break bars, and do nothing but upscale because they cant figure out how to target the boss.

These players are making the game harder/longer for others with their so called 'playstyle'. When their actions directly affect someone else negatively there is no 'right' about it.

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@Shikaru.7618 said

These players are making the game harder/longer for others with their so called 'playstyle'. When their actions directly affect someone else negatively there is no 'right' about it.The converse could be true as well. Those players who make the encounters shorter don't allow those players who are trying to understand the mechanics of their profession to have time to really figure it out because the boss is dead. That playstyle is directly affecting someone else negatively, too.

So, yeah, there is no 'right'.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Shikaru.7618" said

These players are making the game harder/longer for others with their so called 'playstyle'. When their actions directly affect someone else negatively there is no 'right' about it.The converse could be true as well. Those players who make the encounters shorter don't allow those players who are trying to understand the mechanics of their profession to have time to really figure it out because the boss is dead. That playstyle is directly affecting someone else negatively, too.

So, yeah, there is no 'right'.

They can work on " understanding the mechanics of their profession" anywhere. They do not need a specific encounter for that.

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pssst

There will be no banning of players for this behavior. It’s been possible for years...

If anything, they will adjust the afk timer, which again, can be modified.

Inb4 someone states mass reporting: that can easily be abused as well.

Fortunately, I have no interest in this event so..

I may suggest, instead of letting it stress you out:A )report and continueB )ignore and continueC )Create your own squad and enter that way if possible

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@Glider.5792 said:

@"Shikaru.7618" said

These players are making the game harder/longer for others with their so called 'playstyle'. When their actions directly affect someone else negatively there is no 'right' about it.The converse could be true as well. Those players who make the encounters shorter don't allow those players who are trying to understand the mechanics of their profession to have time to really figure it out because the boss is dead. That playstyle is directly affecting someone else negatively, too.

So, yeah, there is no 'right'.

They can work on " understanding the mechanics of their profession" anywhere. They do not need a specific encounter for that.

True, but it is not up to you to decide where.

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I fully participated the first... 35 or so completions? After that.. Yeah. Bored to bits, and still need another 60 completions to max out the AP from it. And, honestly, not participating actually means more events need to be completed, giving you more stacks of the lucky aura, giving you a better chance of good loot from the chest.. so.. Failed design?

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@"Kirigaya Kazuto.8547" said:As there is no way to report "leeching" I always report people afk for botting. It's super annoying and the event takes much longer! They should get no reward and no progress for the achievement if they don't actively participate in at least a few events!

You have to participate in atleast one event. Otherwise you get no lucky aura and the chest will just knock you back.

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@thepenmonster.3621 said:

@Shikaru.7618 said:Blame the game for demanding so little of us.

Maybe no rewards above green quality if you're not tagged as having completed the pre events? Or if you wait for the chest icons to appear on the Palawadan map and you stroll in behind the zerg that has cleared a zone?

I usually find myself reading how I'm no longer participating in the pre-event due to inactivity, after it's already been completed.. So unless they make a proper overhaul here I don't think that's a good idea. xD

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@Thereon.3495 said:In the real world laws are there to create order and fairness. Take stealing for example- before the law was there sure there were a lot of people going around taking what they want but these people were in the minority as the vast majority were good, upstanding citizens who understood right from wrong.

Now translate that into GW2. You have a no doubt shady practice of minimising event participation. Sure there is currently no law against it (not against ToS) but that doesn't stop it being bad for the game environment especially when it comes to mocking those actively taking part. My thoughts on how to 'fix' the issue that I see (create a law, so to speak) are my own opinions on how I would tackle it and the opinion of 'how much participation is enough' is going to vary between most of us. In the specific case of CC I feel the current bare minimum is not enough.

Some have mentioned that I am forcing my view of what is right on others but I don't understand how this can be. Right is right, wrong is wrong when it comes to directly affecting other players in terms of creating more work for them. You are making the game harder/longer for others with your so called 'playstyle'. When your actions directly affect someone else negatively there is no 'right' about it. Sure life sometimes gets in the way- I occasionally duck out of the DS meta to grab a drink or look for some new music to play in the background. What I don't expect is to be rewarded during that time as I have not helped my fellow players.

I personally participate in the events where my participation will actually speed up completions.. For instance, timer stops at 200 gates passed. Worth it. Tributes? F that. Gonna take max time no matter how much I work. Not worth it.

As for taunting actively participating players, that's a totally different level. I've seen ppl AFK/min efforting.. but never taunting. Hope you have better luck on other maps.

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@Najten.2418 said:

@Thereon.3495 said:In the real world laws are there to create order and fairness. Take stealing for example- before the law was there sure there were a lot of people going around taking what they want but these people were in the minority as the vast majority were good, upstanding citizens who understood right from wrong.

Now translate that into GW2. You have a no doubt shady practice of minimising event participation. Sure there is currently no law against it (not against ToS) but that doesn't stop it being bad for the game environment especially when it comes to mocking those actively taking part. My thoughts on how to 'fix' the issue that I see (create a law, so to speak) are my own opinions on how I would tackle it and the opinion of 'how much participation is enough' is going to vary between most of us. In the specific case of CC I feel the current bare minimum is not enough.

Some have mentioned that I am forcing my view of what is right on others but I don't understand how this can be. Right is right, wrong is wrong when it comes to directly affecting other players in terms of creating more work for them. You are making the game harder/longer for others with your so called 'playstyle'. When your actions directly affect someone else negatively there is no 'right' about it. Sure life sometimes gets in the way- I occasionally duck out of the DS meta to grab a drink or look for some new music to play in the background. What I don't expect is to be rewarded during that time as I have not helped my fellow players.

I personally participate in the events where my participation will actually speed up completions.. For instance, timer stops at 200 gates passed. Worth it. Tributes? F that. Gonna take max time no matter how much I work. Not worth it.

As for taunting actively participating players, that's a totally different level. I've seen ppl AFK/min efforting.. but never taunting. Hope you have better luck on other maps.

Well seem to think the emote spam that sitting give off when you get to close is the player taunting them so no they havent encounter that either becosue its automatic

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So I've been thinking about this having encountered an idle person. They have no personal incentive beyond getting that first stack and then waiting around since people are likely going to keep entering and working to earn their chance for tokens. I'm also going to consider when a map is not going to have people entering constantly, like when it gets a closing timer or if it's a dead time of day. Trying to complete this with minimal amount of people is a horrible experience that I would hope no one else ever has to experience. Unfortunately, the option and incentive to idle increases the chances of fewer people working towards the end for everyone's benefit.

Human behavior being what it is, there's always going to be someone that doesn't pull their weight. Instead the CC could use a change like this:

  • Make the chest always available instead of the current fill the bar format to get it to spawn.
  • Massively reduce the requirements to end most of the events early.
  • Maybe reduce the time each event lasts as well before automatically ending.
  • Require more stacks of luck instead of just 1.

In this way, there's some insulation between players with regards to efforts effecting each other. The chest is always there so players only need to participate in enough events to open it instead of doing a useless drag in the case there are too few actively playing people. The idle players, can still put in minimal effort, just spread over several events instead of just 1. They even get to walk away longer if they need to and not worry about missing the chest because it's always there. Having multiple players will still make things appreciably faster as the events should be much quicker to complete with a requirement reduction. Fun is still subjective but it should cut down the potential for pain at least with these changes.

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@Thereon.3495 said:I really don't understand either of the replies so far.

Then you don't understand the game and it's targeted audience. You want to blame the players? For what? doing the least to get the most? Newsflash: that's not JUST an GW2 thing. it's not an MMO thing. That's not even a game thing. It's what I would generally expect of individualistic human behaviour. The fact is that it IS a game thing because the game is designed to cater to that, not the other way around.

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@DaFishBob.6518 said:So I've been thinking about this having encountered an idle person. They have no personal incentive beyond getting that first stack and then waiting around since people are likely going to keep entering and working to earn their chance for tokens. I'm also going to consider when a map is not going to have people entering constantly, like when it gets a closing timer or if it's a dead time of day. Trying to complete this with minimal amount of people is a horrible experience that I would hope no one else ever has to experience. Unfortunately, the option and incentive to idle increases the chances of fewer people working towards the end for everyone's benefit.

Human behavior being what it is, there's always going to be someone that doesn't pull their weight. Instead the CC could use a change like this:

  • Make the chest always available instead of the current fill the bar format to get it to spawn.
  • Massively reduce the requirements to end most of the events early.
  • Maybe reduce the time each event lasts as well before automatically ending.
  • Require more stacks of luck instead of just 1.

In this way, there's some insulation between players with regards to efforts effecting each other. The chest is always there so players only need to participate in enough events to open it instead of doing a useless drag in the case there are too few actively playing people. The idle players, can still put in minimal effort, just spread over several events instead of just 1. They even get to walk away longer if they need to and not worry about missing the chest because it's always there. Having multiple players will still make things appreciably faster as the events should be much quicker to complete with a requirement reduction. Fun is still subjective but it should cut down the potential for pain at least with these changes.

I appreciate your effort to make a helpful and constructive post suggesting changes that could be made to areas of the event where you see opportunities for improvement. Thank you . . .

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anets fault if you ask meit's a long event with barely any rewardso there's no point in doing it more than just getting the achievement progress counter

if anet wants us to drag through half an hour of a braindead event, at least make it worth the time. I'm not gonna sacrifice my braincells for this

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