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You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

How exactly?

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@Virtuality.8351 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

How exactly?

It has to do with the nature of pulsing abilities, and it’s relationship to subgroups

Let’s say for example I have an untraited facet of light on passive mode, and it has a pretend duration of 3 second regeneration. Since the ability pulses every 3 seconds, the ability will apply regeneration to 5 people...no matter how hard I try or whatever configuration I have set up, it will always apply its effect on 5 individuals at any given time.

Following this, let’s say we add some concentration so that our regeneration duration has been increase to 9 seconds. If I am in a subgroup of 5 people, regeneration will pulse every 3 seconds, stacking in 9 second intervals, but it will still only pulse on those same 5 individuals cause we are in a subgroup with them (subgroup buff prioritization)

Now let’s say we are in our own subgroup in a 20 man squad. Every pulse of regeneration effects 5 people, but each time, based on your relative position to others, will effect a new set of 5 different people with each pulse. Thus the higher the duration of regeneration, the more people you will be able to effect at any given time.

Assuming your boons pulse every 3 seconds:3 second duration - 5 people6 second duration - 10 people9 second duration - 15 people12 second duration - 20 people

So you pulse: 5 people get 12 seconds of regeneration. On the next pulse those 5 people have 9 seconds of regeneration left, and the new pulse effects a different set of 5 people for 12 seconds. And so at any given moment you will have 5 people with 12 seconds of regen left, 5 people with 9 seconds of regen left, 5 people with 6 seconds of regen left and so on...

This effect is expedited when the target number of allies is bigger...so Draconic Echo follows the same pattern except it’s 10,20,30... and so on.

Theoretically 40 people is the ultimate maximum for regeneration since it’s duration can last at most 10 seconds...but it’s not just regeneration that this works on. The same thing can be done with Protection, Fury, Swiftness, Might...and every pulsing area of effect buff that can last longer than it’s pulse interval, that you can think of on any class.

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So, it's possible but so extraordinarily difficult to pull off that there's no point to even trying. Got it.

It is a funny thing to think about, though. The only way I could see this working is if someone set up a bot to move a rev through each sub-group of a squad between pulses. I'm sure it would end with a temporary ban for the player(s) using this and a permanent nerf of some sort for rev.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

How exactly?

It has to do with the nature of pulsing abilities, and it’s relationship to subgroups

Let’s say for example I have an untraited facet of light on passive mode, and it has a pretend duration of 3 second regeneration. Since the ability pulses every 3 seconds, the ability will apply regeneration to 5 people...no matter how hard I try or whatever configuration I have set up, it will always apply its effect on 5 individuals at any given time.

Following this, let’s say we add some concentration so that our regeneration duration has been increase to 9 seconds. If I am in a subgroup of 5 people, regeneration will pulse every 3 seconds, stacking in 9 second intervals, but it will still only pulse on those same 5 individuals cause we are in a subgroup with them (subgroup buff prioritization)

Now let’s say we are in our own subgroup in a 20 man squad. Every pulse of regeneration effects 5 people, but each time, based on your relative position to others, will effect a new set of 5 different people with each pulse. Thus the higher the duration of regeneration, the more people you will be able to effect at any given time.

Assuming your boons pulse every 3 seconds:3 second duration - 5 people6 second duration - 10 people9 second duration - 15 people12 second duration - 20 people

So you pulse: 5 people get 12 seconds of regeneration. On the next pulse those 5 people have 9 seconds of regeneration left, and the new pulse effects a different set of 5 people for 12 seconds. And so at any given moment you will have 5 people with 12 seconds of regen left, 5 people with 9 seconds of regen left, 5 people with 6 seconds of regen left and so on...

This effect is expedited when the target number of allies is bigger...so Draconic Echo follows the same pattern except it’s 10,20,30... and so on.

Theoretically 40 people is the ultimate maximum for regeneration since it’s duration can last at most 10 seconds...but it’s not just regeneration that this works on. The same thing can be done with Protection, Fury, Swiftness, Might...and every pulsing area of effect buff that can last longer than it’s pulse interval, that you can think of on any class.

Are you saying that the game will always give boons to the players who did not receive them in the previous pulse? I always thought the 5 people who get the boons would be random in a subgroup of 20, so you can theoretically give everyone boons but only if the pulse chooses the 5 players you want every time?

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@Arkaile.5604 said:So, it's possible but so extraordinarily difficult to pull off that there's no point to even trying. Got it.

It’s really not hard at all. In WvW, your more or less going to cover large amounts of people because of how random the movement is between all players are. So long as you aren’t lagging way behind or something, the boons will almost always attach to different players every time.

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@Omnicron.2467 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

How exactly?

It has to do with the nature of pulsing abilities, and it’s relationship to subgroups

Let’s say for example I have an untraited facet of light on passive mode, and it has a pretend duration of 3 second regeneration. Since the ability pulses every 3 seconds, the ability will apply regeneration to 5 people...no matter how hard I try or whatever configuration I have set up, it will always apply its effect on 5 individuals at any given time.

Following this, let’s say we add some concentration so that our regeneration duration has been increase to 9 seconds. If I am in a subgroup of 5 people, regeneration will pulse every 3 seconds, stacking in 9 second intervals, but it will still only pulse on those same 5 individuals cause we are in a subgroup with them (subgroup buff prioritization)

Now let’s say we are in our own subgroup in a 20 man squad. Every pulse of regeneration effects 5 people, but each time, based on your relative position to others, will effect a new set of 5 different people with each pulse. Thus the higher the duration of regeneration, the more people you will be able to effect at any given time.

Assuming your boons pulse every 3 seconds:3 second duration - 5 people6 second duration - 10 people9 second duration - 15 people12 second duration - 20 people

So you pulse: 5 people get 12 seconds of regeneration. On the next pulse those 5 people have 9 seconds of regeneration left, and the new pulse effects a different set of 5 people for 12 seconds. And so at any given moment you will have 5 people with 12 seconds of regen left, 5 people with 9 seconds of regen left, 5 people with 6 seconds of regen left and so on...

This effect is expedited when the target number of allies is bigger...so Draconic Echo follows the same pattern except it’s 10,20,30... and so on.

Theoretically 40 people is the ultimate maximum for regeneration since it’s duration can last at most 10 seconds...but it’s not just regeneration that this works on. The same thing can be done with Protection, Fury, Swiftness, Might...and every pulsing area of effect buff that can last longer than it’s pulse interval, that you can think of on any class.

Are you saying that the game will always give boons to the players who did not receive them in the previous pulse? I always thought the 5 people who get the boons would be random in a subgroup of 20, so you can theoretically give everyone boons but only if the pulse chooses the 5 players you want every time?

So to be clear, the people who get the boons are based on what’s called “proximity priority” so based on your location relative to other players, will determine who gets the boons.

In WvW, the positions of players in squads are constantly fluctuating to the point where it can essentially be considered random... and a pulse will almost always be picking a different set of people each time.

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@zaswer.5246 said:So for example ,in raid, would it work the same way if you were in a third subgroup?I mean 2 groups with the usual stuff and a third group with you alone , would the boons and assasin facet of nature work the same way?

The Facets of Nature are a bit trickier, I would have to look into their exact behavior before I say anything about them

But boons applied through those facet passives however, does indeed work in the manner described...so ya, if you wanted to run a boon rev that used compassion instead of draconic echo or something, you would grab some boon duration long enough to keep it on 10 allies, be in your own subgroup or have the whole squad be merged into a 10 man squad and that’s pretty much it. I don’t really raid so I can’t say if stacking on tag is common there, but the further spread out your party is the harder it is for you to blanket the whole squad properly.

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Its pretty well known in wvw, revs give squads perma swiftness, fury, and 25 might. Regen is ok if the rev is built for healing power, but there isnt really a need for more than 1-2 support revs in a 50 man squad, and in smaller squads its better to have another fb or scrapper. Protection is usually just a nice bonus since the elite is typically used for superspeed/cc on pushes.

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@"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:So to be clear, the people who get the boons are based on what’s called “proximity priority” so based on your location relative to other players, will determine who gets the boons.

In WvW, the positions of players in squads are constantly fluctuating to the point where it can essentially be considered random... and a pulse will almost always be picking a different set of people each time.

This is true but not the whole truth and has been stated multiple time how it works by developers.

Boons prioritize allies by:1) sub group. If an ally in subgroup is not in range:2) squad (by proximity). If an ally in squad is not in range:3) Team/ally (by proximity). If an ally is not in range:4) Pet/summon (by proximity; ranger pets/mesmer clones etc): if those aren't in range:5) NPC (by proximity)

So yes you are correct boon prioritize by proximity but what you exempt is that, regardless of whether or not an ally already has that boon, it will re-apply to that ally anyways.

Boons like regen that stack in duration also have stack caps (5; with the exception of swiftness which caps at 9 stacks). Reapplying the boon while at the maximum number of stacks will overwrite the stack with the lowest duration.

So for example, having 15 seconds of Protection (5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1) and reapplying with one that lasts 10 seconds will replace the stack that lasts 1 second, increasing the duration to 24 seconds). This is the explanation for the phenomena where you have a boon applied to you, but the duration doesn't increase by the expected amount, and in some cases, decreases it since the game has to take the new application one way or another (e.g. 10+9+8+7+6 for 40s, and applying 1s will override the 6s stack).

Because this system exists we know that boon will over ride themselves, therefore we know the boons will always obey the priority stated above, therefore you can never buff 30-40 people in a squad, even given the realistic scenario of fluctuating proximity of allies. Your argument is based on the idea that boons will not override themselves, and this is not true.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boon#Stacking_in_durationhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boon#Boon_distribution_priorityhttps://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Boon-Healing-Priority/first#post5819356

Edit for the circumstance that you are not in squad:

Facet of Darkness (fury) is 3s base @ 3s intervals. With 100% boon duration this 6s, or 2 applications before the first application runs out. Therefore, even if youre not in a squad, and have perfectly 10 new allies every 3 seconds, you can only apply boons to a maximum of 20 players (2 applications * 10 players per application) permanently with Draconic Echo.

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@Ertrak.9506 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:So to be clear, the people who get the boons are based on what’s called “proximity priority” so based on your location relative to other players, will determine who gets the boons.

In WvW, the positions of players in squads are constantly fluctuating to the point where it can essentially be considered random... and a pulse will almost always be picking a different set of people each time.

This is true but not the whole truth and has been stated multiple time how it works by developers.

Boons prioritize allies by:1) sub group. If an ally in subgroup is not in range:2) squad (by proximity). If an ally in squad is not in range:3) Team/ally (by proximity). If an ally is not in range:4) Pet/summon (by proximity; ranger pets/mesmer clones etc): if
those
aren't in range:5) NPC (by proximity)

So yes you are correct boon prioritize by proximity but what you exempt is that, regardless of whether or not an ally already has that boon, it will re-apply to that ally anyways.

That’s if you are in a subgroup...if you aren’t in a subgroup it will go by proximity priority. There is a chance it can reapply a boon, but it’s not very often.

Boons like regen that stack in duration also have stack caps (5; with the exception of swiftness which caps at 9 stacks). Reapplying the boon while at the maximum number of stacks will overwrite the stack with the lowest duration.So for example, having 15 seconds of Protection (5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1) and reapplying with one that lasts 10 seconds will replace the stack that lasts 1 second, increasing the duration to 24 seconds). This is the explanation for the phenomena where you have a boon applied to you, but the duration doesn't increase by the expected amount, and in some cases, decreases it since the game has to take the new application one way or another (e.g. 10+9+8+7+6 for 40s, and applying 1s will override the 6s stack).

Because this system exists we know that boon will over ride themselves, therefore we know the boons will always obey the priority stated above, therefore you can never buff 30-40 people in a squad,

This is just not a correct conclusion. Boons override themselves specifically when you are in a subgroup with other people, where the target limit of the skill is the same as the number of people in the group. If you are in a group of 5 members and you use an ability that targets 10 people, 5 of the abilities targets prioritize the subgroup your in, and the remaining 5 are given to proximity from your position within the rest of your squad, which is always subject to change based on distances between you and other players.

This has already been throughly tested and works in this manner. You can even test it for yourself.

Edit for the circumstance that you are not in squad:

Facet of Darkness (fury) is 3s base @ 3s intervals. With 100% boon duration this 6s, or 2 applications before the first application runs out. Therefore, even if youre not in a squad, and have perfectly 10 new allies every 3 seconds, you can only apply boons to a maximum of 20 players (2 applications * 10 players per application) permanently with Draconic Echo.

And this is where you kinda proved yourself wrong because you can get a longer duration with Fury via Facet of Nature Glint, and if you notice it will be able to apply up to 30 people with draconic (it’s actually 27 because the application always includes yourself as one of the allies)

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May be this case, but first: this would mean people need to be seperated (for wvw example) into one big subgroup, which would ruin the teamcomp through firebrand and scourge priorization.

Also you would have to be sure to hit the "buffed" people once again immediatly with FoN, while this only hits 5ppl btwand the passive is crap. So the maximum amount of hit people is 22, if everything goes as wished.

(Sidenote: It may sound like an good thing but tbh boon herald isnt a real thing regarding to those "boongiving features", since everyone can provide themselves with those boons, or through other allies as side effect.)

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

You do understand that maximum boon duration is 100%, right? Have you confirmed your theory and if you have can you post a video about it?

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@The Ace.9105 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

You do understand that maximum boon duration is 100%, right? Have you confirmed your theory and if you have can you post a video about it?

It's not a theory. And has nothing really to do with max boon duration. I've already explained enough how it works, and now you have to figure it out on your own. Not gonna baby-sit you and hold your hand for something you can just test right now in game yourself.

Put on some concentration gear, go to wvw and zerg around in your own sub-squad and actually look at how many boons you can maintain on people at any given time...just go and do and observe for yourself.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

You do understand that maximum boon duration is 100%, right? Have you confirmed your theory and if you have can you post a video about it?

It's not a theory. And has nothing really to do with max boon duration. I've already explained enough how it works, and now you have to figure it out on your own. Not gonna baby-sit you and hold your hand for something you can just test right now in game yourself.

Put on some concentration gear, go to wvw and zerg around in your own sub-squad and actually look at how many boons you can maintain on people at any given time...just go and do and observe for yourself.

Your theory would need ppl to change the distance to you in the boon pulse interval and even with that the max duration of the pulse boons outside of might and regen is 6s and regen 8s while might is 24s. I'd kinda suggest you to do the same since it's a thing you are trying to say is possible to do but it feels like you haven't thought it through with tests and if it actually works.

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@"Virdo.1540" said:May be this case, but first: this would mean people need to be seperated (for wvw example) into one big subgroup, which would ruin the teamcomp through firebrand and scourge priorization.

Not really...if you want to keep 5 man subsquads, you just put yourself in your own subgroup.

Also you would have to be sure to hit the "buffed" people once again immediatly with FoN, while this only hits 5ppl btw

Not really sure i follow what you mean by this. The whole idea is not about hitting the same people over again...it's about maintaining boons and buffs on as many people as possible.

and the passive is kitten. So the maximum amount of hit people is 22, if everything goes as wished.

Also not really sure what this means...You need to explain in precise detail what you are talking about. are you talking about FON? The original topic is about boons on glint passives, not facet of nature.

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@"Virdo.1540" said:May be this case, but first: this would mean people need to be seperated (for wvw example) into one big subgroup, which would ruin the teamcomp through firebrand and scourge priorization.

Also you would have to be sure to hit the "buffed" people once again immediatly with FoN, while this only hits 5ppl btwand the passive is kitten. So the maximum amount of hit people is 22, if everything goes as wished.

(Sidenote: It may sound like an good thing but tbh boon herald isnt a real thing regarding to those "boongiving features", since everyone can provide themselves with those boons, or through other allies as side effect.)

It seems he hasn't realized or doesn't have the game knowledge of max boon duration being 100% which means that you'd pulse the boons for max 6 seconds and regen for 8s and might for 24s.

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@The Ace.9105 said:

Your theory

again it's not a theory...

...would need ppl to change the distance to you in the boon pulse intervalYes that's exactly how that works...and it's not a hard thing to do...people move around all the time, and so do you...have you been in a wvw zerg before?

and even with that the max duration of the pulse boons outside of might and regen is 6s and regen 8s while might is 24s.

Max duration has NOTHING to do with this, i dont know why people keep bringing it up, and also getting it wrong anyway. you can get 120% boon duration on Revenant. The longer the duration of the boon is in comparison to the pulse interval, the more people can be maintained. I explained this already.

I'd kinda suggest you to do the same since it's a thing you are trying to say is possible to do but it feels like you haven't thought it through with tests and if it actually works.

I have played like this for years on tempest, since the same thing applies for them as well. It's actually you who hasn't done any research or the math or any tests. I've extensively tested these things over and over to make sure i understood how they worked, even with the very little information about these mechanics out there.

Ball's in your court now buddy...can't hold your hand anymore. go and look into it on your own time.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"The Ace.9105" said:

Your theory

again it's not a theory...

...would need ppl to change the distance to you in the boon pulse intervalYes that's exactly how that works...and it's not a hard thing to do...people move around all the time, and so do you...have you been in a wvw zerg before?

and even with that the max duration of the pulse boons outside of might and regen is 6s and regen 8s while might is 24s.

Max duration has NOTHING to do with this, i dont know why people keep bringing it up, and also getting it wrong anyway. you can get 120% boon duration on Revenant. The longer the duration of the boon is
in comparison
to the pulse interval, the more people can be maintained. I explained this already.

I'd kinda suggest you to do the same since it's a thing you are trying to say is possible to do but it feels like you haven't thought it through with tests and if it actually works.

I have played like this for years on tempest, since the same thing applies for them as well. It's actually you who hasn't done any research or the math or any tests. I've extensively tested these things over and over to make sure i understood how they worked, even with the very little information about these mechanics out there.

Ball's in your court now buddy...can't hold your hand anymore. go and look into it on your own time.

Boon duration is capped to 100% no matter what the interface says in gw2. Even with 120% boon duration if it would be possible you'd only have barely 9s of regen. The boon duration has everything to do with upkeeping as you said "all the boons". You just simply can't keep all the boons on 40 ppl with 1 herald and that's simply a fact. If that would be the case then why doesn't raids just run 1 perma all boons herald?

Moving in the zerg is constant and you shift the pulses yes but it might be 1 person who gets the boons multiple times and 1 who gets them only once or twice so that random boon giving isn't really giving you anything.

If you are just simply talking about pulsing boons every 3s to different ppl then yeah, that's true but upkeeping those boons on all of the ppl is not happening since even in your theory you used 12 second boon duration that never happens with max boon duration if you don't count might that goes to max 24 seconds 1 stack/pulse.

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@"The Ace.9105" said:Boon duration is capped to 100% no matter what the interface says in gw2.

Nopehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Facet_of_Nature%E2%80%94Dragon"Gives a flat +20% duration to any boons applied to you, regardless of the source. Can go above the boon duration cap allowing up to +120% boon duration."Like i said, you can get 120% boon duration on Revenant.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"The Ace.9105" said:Boon duration is capped to 100% no matter what the interface says in gw2.

Nope
"Gives a flat +20% duration to any boons applied to you, regardless of the source. Can go above the boon duration cap allowing up to +120% boon duration."Like i said, you can get 120% boon duration on Revenant.

Even so you'd still get only 8,8s of regen. And you lose some upkeep cause you have to keep up the f2.

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