WvW in the eyes of a new player

[Secret.6813]

Hello, I've been with arena.net for a very very very long time. In fact I even alpha tested the game with you back in 2010. I have made a lot of efforts to introduce players to your game and some loved it and some did not. Recently a few of my friends have expressed that now is the time for them to play Guild Wars 2. We are mostly pvp type players so naturally they wanted to go into WvW to see what it's all about. Granted I've been away ever since the Warclaw came out so it was neat to see that we have mounts in WvW now. However, though I was having a lot of fun because I understand the rhythm of wvw and like to run off and roam... he was not having fun. He was always behind, always trying to catch up and always upset. We started him on the reward track to earn the warclaw but even that was nearly impossible as all the commanders are so quick to move from one place to another and with everyone else on the warclaw, naturally we are always trailing behind. We went with a group to take 3 different keeps, we really needed this for our achievement but by the time we got to the guild lord it was already dead.

He no longer wants to play wvw even though he expressed a lot of interest in the battle design.

How can you remedy this? It's kinda a shitty feeling when I started running with him and noticing that I too was always late to each killing of the guild lord and got no credit. I will admit that these groups already had a hit team working on the gates so by the time to commander ran to them the gates/walls were already down so we couldn't get credit for even sieging.

So how do we keep up if we are new and don't have a warclaw? How do you get the player interested in coming back to defend their server? If none of this bothers you, I'm afraid they may not care to play much longer.

[Genesis.5169]

Pvp is hard, there's no remedy he either has the heart for it or he doesn't. This why fighting game players are so rare you gotta spend alot of time on the floor getting your ass beat getting nothing done before you can finally be decent.

All i can say is tell your friend you we both suck now but eventually we wont, just gotta put in the work and learn how wvw works and how pvp works, then you'll be do to other players what was done to you when you first started.

[Bassdeff.1895]

I went through a similar experience a couple months ago on this account. You should get your friend to picked up a Reward Tack guild boost, a Reward track amulet infusion (WvW Laurel vendor), and an XP Boost. He should have his warclaw in a couple of hours. In mean time, he should slot as many speed boosts and gap closer (leaps, teleports, blinks) as possible to somewhat keep up with the zerglings. Get into the habit of killing 3 veteran guards every time you go by tower or keep. That way if you miss the Lord kill you still get credit for the cap.

[Strider Pj.2193]

If you kill guards, you will not get credit if you leave the map before it caps.

Also: for keeps, the EoTM ones count, as do the towers. Camps would be able to be done by one to two people.

Any time you pass an enemy tower, kill a guard..

Keep boosters up, keep watching the XP track.

If the only turnoff was keeping up, have him run a very high mobility class until he gets the Warclaw. Once he has it, it’s unlocked on the other toons.

[Evil.1580]

All here are wrong.You don't have to spend a lot of time to get good. You just have to pick the right profession. Do you think all professions are equally balanced? Ha, think again! All you have to do is pick the right metaclass and that's all. You don't even have to know what to do - just join the discord and the capt will tell you what to do. WvW is a joke

[Rowena.9375]

I tell all people trying to get a mount to completely spec for speed--runes, traits, etc. You don't need dps to keep up with the zerg and you only need one hit on a guard to get credit. It's more important to make sure you get there than how much dps you can do.

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Genesis.5169 said:Pvp is hard, there's no remedy he either has the heart for it or he doesn't. This why fighting game players are so rare you gotta spend alot of time on the floor getting your kitten beat getting nothing done before you can finally be decent.

All i can say is tell your friend you we both suck now but eventually we wont, just gotta put in the work and learn how wvw works and how pvp works, then you'll be do to other players what was done to you when you first started.

I don't know it's as much hard as not being on time.

@Secret.6813 said:So how do we keep up if we are new and don't have a warclaw? How do you get the player interested in coming back to defend their server? If none of this bothers you, I'm afraid they may not care to play much longer.

Couple of things:ANet might be working on a solution to this currently, but in the meantime:

• Make sure your party is setup with someone always providing swiftness to the group or find one that does. There are a number of builds that can do this, gw2skills.net has a good build editor you can play around with and people can post some here if needed.
• Determine where a tag might be going and intercept there if you can't get to the current spot where are they going next
• Pre-qualify if you are going to be on a map for a while go and pre-attack targets that might be hit by killing guards so that you have contribution when it flips
• Give a shout out and see if there are any havoc groups you can join that are taking out objectives, tell them you are working on mount and they might help, likewise keep an eye out for people in map chat saying they are also working mount and group up
• Watch for Keep take dailies since those days people shout-out more that they are working on one to pull people together

[Bassdeff.1895]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:All here are wrong.You don't have to spend a lot of time to get good. You just have to pick the right profession. Do you think all professions are equally balanced? Ha, think again! All you have to do is pick the right metaclass and that's all. You don't even have to know what to do - just join the discord and the capt will tell you what to do. WvW is a joke

There is some truth to this, while some classes clearly have to upper hand compared to others, is it worth spending resources to gear up a new character when Anet is promising a monster of a balance patch in a month from now?

[XenesisII.1540]

It's kinda funny, they put in the warclaw so they could sell skins, but they created a barrier to wvw and in the process hurt new or pve players more than vet wvw players, like it wasn't hard enough for new or pve players to get into wvw in the first place.

Your friend will have to put in a little work to get the mount much like leveling and getting gear. Most commanders don't work with forward teams, some do drive by caps (drops siege than moves on) because they're not interested in spending long on capping stuff, so you were unlucky to run into the one that does I guess.

But yeah as mentioned in all of the above, killing one guard gets you credit for that structure cap not just killing the lord and standing in the circle, so kill guards near towers and keeps to get credit when they cap. A lot of things in wvw gives you participation, so don't fret over missing a cap. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WvW_Reward_Track#Increasing_Participation

Use mobility skills, have swiftness on, every class has access to basic 25% run speed boost and swiftness in some form, you can use superior runes, some proc swiftness some extend it (pack, centaur, speed, air, evasion) and heck even old traveler runes gives 25% run speed still (traveler, fireworks, surging) even superspeed (snowfall, trapper, zephyrite), and most classes have mobility skills (teleports, leaps, dashes). Check for commander call outs and do some predicting of where they may go next to get a head start.

[tippolit.3591]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:All here are wrong.You don't have to spend a lot of time to get good. You just have to pick the right profession. Do you think all professions are equally balanced? Ha, think again! All you have to do is pick the right metaclass and that's all. You don't even have to know what to do - just join the discord and the capt will tell you what to do. WvW is a joke

Can I just say that telling someone "you don't even know what to do" simply isn't true. There is a learning curve as most everyone would agree. Also, I get your frustration regarding class balance (we all pretty much agree on that), but keep in mind that balancing a shitload of rather dissimilar classes is quite difficult. Lets see what happens with the next major "balance" update and revisit that topic. Hope springs eternal.

[gloflop.3510]

@XenesisII.1540 said:(...) but they created a barrier to wvw and in the process hurt new or pve players more than vet wvw players (...)

This piece of a sentence is in my eyes the key of the problem. The suggestions coming up here are more or less all work-arounds. We need to get the problem solved not the symptoms.

[Genesis.5169]

@gloflop.3510 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:(...) but they created a barrier to wvw and in the process hurt new or pve players more than vet wvw players (...)

This piece of a sentence is in my eyes the key of the problem. The suggestions coming up here are more or less all work-arounds. We need to get the problem solved not the symptoms.

The problem in your eye is not everyone can run into WvW and get what they want as quick as the people who live in WvW and put in the effort to make your your server wins?

Surely your not saying that are you?

[TinkTinkPOOF.9201]

What server are you on? NA? EU? In NA more than a few servers have tags that will almost never mount up (unless running to defend something), they do this so new people can keep up, might be worth asking around to see if there is one on your server and what time zones they are active in.

Roam around, I know yall are new, however solo capping towers and duo capping keeps is doable, though might seem impossible for new players. Maybe find people who are vets that will let you tag along.

As others have said, kill a guard on EVERYTHING you pass, so if that tower or keep gets flipped, you get credit. Be aware of the map and what is going on, get in discord if they are using one so you know the tags plan and where they are going to be, so you can move there ahead of time. In most cases if there is not a havoc group helping the tag, when a tag goes to take a keep, you should have NO problem getting there in time for credit, even without warclaw if you take off when you see them get to a structure.

It can seem like a big task, however if you hook up with some vets and you get into what you are doing and the game mode, it will pass much faster than constantly thinking about getting the warclaw so you can keep up.

[XenesisII.1540]

@gloflop.3510 said:

@"XenesisII.1540" said:(...) but they created a barrier to wvw and in the process hurt new or pve players more than vet wvw players (...)

This piece of a sentence is in my eyes the key of the problem. The suggestions coming up here are more or less all work-arounds. We need to get the problem solved not the symptoms.

All vets had to go through the same process of obtaining the warclaw, the only difference is our knowledge/experience we were already using "work-arounds" to move around the map long before warclaws were a thing, new and pve players don't have that advantage, but we are offering that now in this thread and others that have come before it. Want the mount, put in the work, everyone else did.

[gloflop.3510]

@Genesis.5169 said:

@gloflop.3510 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:(...) but they created a barrier to wvw and in the process hurt new or pve players more than vet wvw players (...)

This piece of a sentence is in my eyes the key of the problem. The suggestions coming up here are more or less all work-arounds. We need to get the problem solved not the symptoms.

The problem in your eye is not everyone can run into WvW and get what they want as quick as the people who live in WvW and put in the effort to make your your server wins?

Surely your not saying that are you?

Sorry, I might have expressed myself difficult then. I want a new player to be able to participate in WvW e.g. the player should be able to follow a commander. On my server, the commander pretty much expects from the players to have a mount. For me the warclaw is a tool and not a reward. I have helped players often with their warclaw. I cannot count how often we failed getting in time to a keep and I perfectly understand players getting frustrated and turning away from the game as the first post suggested.

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@gloflop.3510 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:(...) but they created a barrier to wvw and in the process hurt new or pve players more than vet wvw players (...)

This piece of a sentence is in my eyes the key of the problem. The suggestions coming up here are more or less all work-arounds. We need to get the problem solved not the symptoms.

All vets had to go through the same process of obtaining the warclaw, the only difference is our knowledge/experience we were already using "work-arounds" to move around the map long before warclaws were a thing, new and pve players don't have that advantage, but we are offering that now in this thread and others that have come before it. Want the mount, put in the work, everyone else did.

I talked about the entrance barrier for WvW. It used to be that you had to click on the symbol and find your way around there. When I think of my first time, it was difficult. Now new players come to wvw, see a commander, run to the commander on the map, get to the commander, the commander mounts up and is gone again. yay! Restult: The player will not go to wvw again (as the first post suggested).

[Voltekka.2375]

Tell your friend to join a casual wvw guild (eg community wvw guild).Have guildies help with warclaw achievements (many will do it), dont just follow a commander who probably seeks fights.Asking for help is always needed. Sure, the odd troll will answer something dumb, but people WILL help. Be it builds, getting warclaw or general wvw questions.

Edit : it is just like pve. You join a guild, and ask for help on events etc.

[Loffels.5934]

They need to remove the pre-reqs for WvW Mount and just give it to everyone.

There's absolutely no reason to gatekeep behind the achievement.

[XenesisII.1540]

@gloflop.3510 said:I talked about the entrance barrier for WvW. It used to be that you had to click on the symbol and find your way around there. When I think of my first time, it was difficult. Now new players come to wvw, see a commander, run to the commander on the map, get to the commander, the commander mounts up and is gone again. yay! Restult: The player will not go to wvw again (as the first post suggested).

I understand there are multiple barriers to enter wvw, anything pvp related already has a built in barrier to new and pve players, learning how wvw functions outside of wvw can be difficult, getting the warclaw to keep up is another barrier. While all those barriers exist I don't think wvw should be made easier without having to make an effort, it's the same with pve where you have to hunt down hero points to unlock elite specs and mastery points for mastery.

I do agree that Anet should offer as much assistance as possible to get into something, but I also think it's up to the player to make an effort to gain knowledge and experience and learn how to function properly in whatever game mode they go into (and just going into wvw to follow a tag around hitting 1 isn't functioning properly, sorry), this goes for map metas, raids, fractals, spvp, wvw.

About the only thing I really think they could do with the mount situation is to, as others have suggested, have a rental, so maybe 1g for 1hr, at 25% run speed and none of the wvw mastery bonuses or mount skills or skins.

[Secret.6813]

@Loffels.5934 said:They need to remove the pre-reqs for WvW Mount and just give it to everyone.

There's absolutely no reason to gatekeep behind the achievement.

this

[gloflop.3510]

@XenesisII.1540 said:I do agree that Anet should offer as much assistance as possible to get into something, but I also think it's up to the player to make an effort to gain knowledge and experience and learn how to function properly in whatever game mode they go into (and just going into wvw to follow a tag around hitting 1 isn't functioning properly, sorry), this goes for map metas, raids, fractals, spvp, wvw.

About the only thing I really think they could do with the mount situation is to, as others have suggested, have a rental, so maybe 1g for 1hr, at 25% run speed and none of the wvw mastery bonuses or mount skills or skins.

I agree with this part and would support your suggested solution.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@Secret.6813 you seem awefully interested in objectives for someone who characterizes themselves as a PvP player. If you have played for a bit you should also know that you only have to smash a guard outside the objective to tag it. I definately think there is merit for criticizing the implementation of the Warclaw. However, the time it takes to achieve it if you have paid for PoF is hardly a good reason. You can literally get the thing for next to nothing in a couple of hours. It's one of the easiest mounts to get.

Instead of misrepresenting the experience, you should have argued the more accurate argument that it is ridiculous that a mobility advantage in a PvP mode is hidden behind an additional purchase. Had your friend been a player just checking out the game to possibly buy it or if you were a returning player with the game already bought twice only to find yourselves completely unable to get the mount: Then that would have been a far more valid concern.

It is especially valid when there are scores of interviews with Anet saying that the game should never come to that from vanilla, from HoT and from PoF.

[KrHome.1920]

play a thief with shortbow to keep up with the warclaw train. SB4 is even good for tagging mobs and players (you can change the class after you got the mount - wvw rank counts account wide)

kill a guard at the door of every structure you pass to get the cap later even if you are not on the capture point (not just because you might be too slow but also for the case that you die before your zerg caps the structure and you have to teleport to the spawnpoint)

don't leave the map while you have a commander that has the strengh to cap stuff (you can leech a lot then - just run around and kill door guards)

use wvw boosters (self explanatory)

[Burnfall.9573]

@"bOTEB.1573" said:All here are wrong.You don't have to spend a lot of time to get good. You just have to pick the right profession. Do you think all professions are equally balanced? Ha, think again! All you have to do is pick the right metaclass and that's all. You don't even have to know what to do - just join the discord and the capt will tell you what to do. WvW is a joke

+1

on point without sugar-coating

[ArchonWing.9480]

While I do think the gating of the warclaw is garbage, I have helped multiple people get their warclaws, with some being completely new to wvw so.... no, not impossible. Just need more awareness.

Though they'll have a better time playing something like a warrior which has good durability and mobility while also being very welcome in zergs. Engineer is also decent and doesn't require getting Holo though it'd still be nice.

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@gloflop.3510 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:(...) but they created a barrier to wvw and in the process hurt new or pve players more than vet wvw players (...)

This piece of a sentence is in my eyes the key of the problem. The suggestions coming up here are more or less all work-arounds. We need to get the problem solved not the symptoms.

All vets had to go through the same process of obtaining the warclaw, the only difference is our knowledge/experience we were already using "work-arounds" to move around the map long before warclaws were a thing, new and pve players don't have that advantage, but we are offering that now in this thread and others that have come before it. Want the mount, put in the work, everyone else did.

What work? I put 80 potions in to instantly finish the reward track when it came out. It's nothing to be proud of, and I wouldn't be bothered at all if they removed it.

[mindcircus.1506]

@Secret.6813 said:Hello, I've been with arena.net for a very very very long time. In fact I even alpha tested the game with you back in 2010. I have made a lot of efforts to introduce players to your game and some loved it and some did not. Recently a few of my friends have expressed that now is the time for them to play Guild Wars 2. We are mostly pvp type players so naturally they wanted to go into WvW to see what it's all about. Granted I've been away ever since the Warclaw came out so it was neat to see that we have mounts in WvW now. However, though I was having a lot of fun because I understand the rhythm of wvw and like to run off and roam... he was not having fun. He was always behind, always trying to catch up and always upset. We started him on the reward track to earn the warclaw but even that was nearly impossible as all the commanders are so quick to move from one place to another and with everyone else on the warclaw, naturally we are always trailing behind. We went with a group to take 3 different keeps, we really needed this for our achievement but by the time we got to the guild lord it was already dead.

He no longer wants to play wvw even though he expressed a lot of interest in the battle design.

How can you remedy this? It's kinda a kitten feeling when I started running with him and noticing that I too was always late to each killing of the guild lord and got no credit. I will admit that these groups already had a hit team working on the gates so by the time to commander ran to them the gates/walls were already down so we couldn't get credit for even sieging.

So how do we keep up if we are new and don't have a warclaw? How do you get the player interested in coming back to defend their server? If none of this bothers you, I'm afraid they may not care to play much longer.

1. Most really good commanders I follow these days rarely use their mounts.
2. it is very easy to capture a keep in Edge of the Mists.
3. Hyperbole solves nothing.