WvW in the eyes of a new player

[XenesisII.1540]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:What work? I put 80 potions in to instantly finish the reward track when it came out. It's nothing to be proud of, and I wouldn't be bothered at all if they removed it.

It's not about pride it's about not turning this game into more of a scratch card insta prize.

But yeah you're absolutely right every single person did it this way so let's just give everything away!We should just give everyone 80 reward track potions so they can get the track done instantly!I mean you obviously had it instantly appear in your inventory for free so why not everyone too!Let's start everyone off at 1226 wxp ranks so they can also get all the mastery done and not worry about being behind!Let's get guilds insta boosted to level 40 so we all have the guild wvw buffs ready as soon as we enter!Let's get everyone new to wvw a starter kit that gives them all wvw legendary gear and weapons so they don't have to worry about being behind!Also let's delete all gates and walls, no one should have to learn to siege and counter siege, we just want to follow the dorito around holding 1 while watching tv!Let's also just put everyone on the server in one guild that way people can make friends instantly and get in squads automatically!Heck just turn it into eotm already, have 3 alpine, 3 desert, 3 ebg open, and use guild claims to collect ppt, you're allowed to only claim one structure and all structures gives the same points, top 100 guilds get posted on leader board every week, rest of the time we can just go around in circles pressing 1 through 3 way lag to get ppk and bags in our bags.We should be proud to get free stuff!

[ArchonWing.9480]

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:What work? I put 80 potions in to instantly finish the reward track when it came out. It's nothing to be proud of, and I wouldn't be bothered at all if they removed it.

It's not about pride it's about not turning this game into more of a scratch card insta prize.

But yeah you're absolutely right every single person did it this way so let's just give everything away!We should just give everyone 80 reward track potions so they can get the track done instantly!I mean you obviously had it instantly appear in your inventory for free so why not everyone too!Let's start everyone off at 1226 wxp ranks so they can also get all the mastery done and not worry about being behind!

Nah, man, I guess you're right, we can't let it have it be a giveaway. Why not make it so that you need 12226 ranks to complete everything? Or 122226?

Let's get guilds insta boosted to level 40 so we all have the guild wvw buffs ready as soon as we enter!

Oh you must be right. Let's make increase it so that guilds need level 400 to get all wvw buffs.

See, I can do nonsensical hyperbole too, except I'm much more concise about it. And idk about you, but I liked pre-hot when there wasn't all these pve-style grinds. But I guess pve game is pve game.

Also it seems like people don't seem to make any distinction between mandatory and optional grind. Legendaries and even most wvw abilities are hardly needed to compete in wvw. Mounts on the other hand are a bit more important. Furthermore, this entire situation only came along because of mounts.

[SlateSloan.3654]

„he cant get the warclaw and now dont wants to play anymore“

when the warclaw was introduced i came back from work in the evening and my guildmates mostly all had unlocked it already with potions.back then the warclaw could run faster and do a longer leap than nowadays.

i had no problem doing the reward track and achievements with them. all you need to do is use a class with either swiftness or superspeed and you can easy walk into every tower and keep before it gets capped on eternal battle grounds or alpine borderlands.

i have the feeling its not about „cant get the warclaw“. its more about „wanting to have it directly without playing some hours for it.“

if he dont wants to play anymore because of the warclaw then mmos are not for him because everything in such games must be played for.

[Yasai.3549]

All this can be solved with Warclaw Chariot.

Wanna bring a few buddies new to WvW on a fun ride?

WARCLAW CHARIOT IS THE PRODUCT TO CONSIDER!

Comes in various designs!

Pathetic Patrick! (15 supply)

Sturdy Steve! (30 supply)

Iron Ivan! (60 supply)

Ride together and die together with 4 other friends today!

[lare.5129]

@Secret.6813 said:the guild lord it was already dead.How can you remedy this?Is is already fixed long time ago. You don't need touch lord, enough kill any guard from that tower to get progress.

we couldn't get credit for even sieging.this is mean that you not assist on any guard kill.

Also in many builds I don't use warclaw at all.

[Loffels.5934]

@Yasai.3549 said:All this can be solved with Warclaw Chariot.

Wanna bring a few buddies new to WvW on a fun ride?

WARCLAW CHARIOT IS THE PRODUCT TO CONSIDER!

Comes in various designs!

Pathetic Patrick! (15 supply)

Sturdy Steve! (30 supply)

Iron Ivan! (60 supply)

Ride together and die together with 4 other friends today!

Honestly, this isn't a bad idea with balancing.

I've recently been getting my friends into GW2 and the roughest part so far is getting them their Warclaw mount. It was very disheartening for them to always be in the back and constantly getting picked off. I had to switch to full support just for them for the entire evening, which I don't really mind but something like this would really fix a lot of that problem.

Purchase some 2-person saddle or whatever that allows a person to hitch a ride and only allow players who don't have the warclaw mount to be able to use these saddles.

Even if you gave them a disarm upon dismounting or some other debuff, it would still be worth it for a lot of these new players just to keep up.

[L A T I O N.8923]

Con:If you play a rvr gamemode and spend several attempts to get stuff Done IT might be a great time to communicate and gather intell

Alot of people wont bother on chat and alot of people refuse to help

But you cant tell me you asked for help all these Times and no1 responded

PS i agree mounts should be deleted for more then this reason alone

[TheGrimm.5624]

@Yasai.3549 said:All this can be solved with Warclaw Chariot.

Wanna bring a few buddies new to WvW on a fun ride?

WARCLAW CHARIOT IS THE PRODUCT TO CONSIDER!

Comes in various designs!

Pathetic Patrick! (15 supply)

Sturdy Steve! (30 supply)

Iron Ivan! (60 supply)

Ride together and die together with 4 other friends today!

Mobile mounted combat confirmed 2020. Now its less about kill the healer and more about kill the driver, chariot driver that is. Chariot meta > Pirate meta but, pie still wins.

[Yasai.3549]

@"TheGrimm.5624" said:

Mobile mounted combat confirmed 2020. Now its less about kill the healer and more about kill the driver, chariot driver that is. Chariot meta > Pirate meta but, pie still wins.

Chariot meta would do well to kill zerglings rejoining the zerg.

Maybe then, people stop complaining about "hur dur mounts suck can't stop zerglings"

Then zerglings can band up in their own Chariots to rejoin zerg.

Fun.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@"TheGrimm.5624" said:

Mobile mounted combat confirmed 2020. Now its less about kill the healer and more about kill the driver, chariot driver that is. Chariot meta > Pirate meta but, pie still wins.

Chariot meta would do well to kill zerglings rejoining the zerg.

Maybe then, people stop complaining about "hur dur mounts suck can't stop zerglings"

Then zerglings can band up in their own Chariots to rejoin zerg.

Fun.

Maybe. Then the Zerglings won’t have to say ‘hur dur I cant live to get back to mah zerg’

[LetoII.3782]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:While I do think the gating of the warclaw is garbage, I have helped multiple people get their warclaws, with some being completely new to wvw so.... no, not impossible. Just need more awareness.

Though they'll have a better time playing something like a warrior which has good durability and mobility while also being very welcome in zergs. Engineer is also decent and doesn't require getting Holo though it'd still be nice.

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@gloflop.3510 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:(...) but they created a barrier to wvw and in the process hurt new or pve players more than vet wvw players (...)

This piece of a sentence is in my eyes the key of the problem. The suggestions coming up here are more or less all work-arounds. We need to get the problem solved not the symptoms.

All vets had to go through the same process of obtaining the warclaw, the only difference is our knowledge/experience we were already using "work-arounds" to move around the map long before warclaws were a thing, new and pve players don't have that advantage, but we are offering that now in this thread and others that have come before it. Want the mount, put in the work, everyone else did.

What work? I put 80 potions in to instantly finish the reward track when it came out. It's nothing to be proud of, and I wouldn't be bothered at all if they removed it.

Very much agree.We knew weeks in advance it was coming, and if you logged in within the first few weeks of warclaw release you'd have a ktrain of PvE'rs getting their mount. Took most of a month to get back to business as usual. With all the leveling, equipment acquisition and just plain lack of skill a newbie is already facing, being left in the dust is downright shitty

[Stand The Wall.6987]

well if you don't have warclaw and you're late to getting credit then follow a smaller tag. move servers if you have to.

you could ask the commander to give the squad an early warning of where they're going so you guys can get a head start. he might do it if hes cool, it won't work all the time since things change quickly but it should be enough.

look for a smaller guild that's into helping build their team up. state specifically that your friend needs help getting warclaw.

[XenesisII.1540]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:What work? I put 80 potions in to instantly finish the reward track when it came out. It's nothing to be proud of, and I wouldn't be bothered at all if they removed it.

It's not about pride it's about not turning this game into more of a scratch card insta prize.

But yeah you're absolutely right every single person did it this way so let's just give everything away!We should just give everyone 80 reward track potions so they can get the track done instantly!I mean you obviously had it instantly appear in your inventory for free so why not everyone too!Let's start everyone off at 1226 wxp ranks so they can also get all the mastery done and not worry about being behind!

Nah, man, I guess you're right, we can't let it have it be a giveaway. Why not make it so that you need 12226 ranks to complete everything? Or 122226?

Let's get guilds insta boosted to level 40 so we all have the guild wvw buffs ready as soon as we enter!

Oh you must be right. Let's make increase it so that guilds need level 400 to get all wvw buffs.

See, I can do nonsensical hyperbole too, except I'm much more concise about it. And idk about you, but I liked pre-hot when there wasn't all these pve-style grinds. But I guess pve game is pve game.

Also it seems like people don't seem to make any distinction between mandatory and optional grind. Legendaries and even most wvw abilities are hardly needed to compete in wvw. Mounts on the other hand are a bit more important. Furthermore, this entire situation only came along because of mounts.

You must have missed the memo that wvw was always a pve/pvp hybrid, if you wanted to skip pve grinds spvp was also available for that. The only real massive grind in wvw is the guild hall upgrades which forces you to pve for most of it. Mounts aren't mandatory, gliders aren't mandatory, elite specs aren't mandatory, masteries aren't mandatory, exotic ascended legendary aren't mandatory, guild halls aren't mandatory, the only mandatory thing in wvw is getting the minimum level to enter it, everything else beyond that is optional, just depends on how easy or hard you want the game to be for yourself.

You also did put in work for that mount with the reward track, those 80 potions from dailies didn't suddenly fall into your bag, but you write it off because overall you hate grinds, and that's fine too, you do have the option to skip it all, which you kinda did by doing the dailies and getting the potions beforehand.

At this point they should just give out the mount like they did with gliders, put a mastery point in it and unlocked. My only complaint is people wanting to skip stuff or make things easier without spending time to gain the knowledge and experience to function in wvw. To get the mount isn't hard and isn't a grind, the OP's friend spent all that time running after lord circles when killing one guard would have done the job, that one piece of knowledge would have saved them a lot of time and irritation and they probably wouldn't have even bothered to post in here.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:What work? I put 80 potions in to instantly finish the reward track when it came out. It's nothing to be proud of, and I wouldn't be bothered at all if they removed it.

It's not about pride it's about not turning this game into more of a scratch card insta prize.

But yeah you're absolutely right every single person did it this way so let's just give everything away!We should just give everyone 80 reward track potions so they can get the track done instantly!I mean you obviously had it instantly appear in your inventory for free so why not everyone too!Let's start everyone off at 1226 wxp ranks so they can also get all the mastery done and not worry about being behind!

Nah, man, I guess you're right, we can't let it have it be a giveaway. Why not make it so that you need 12226 ranks to complete everything? Or 122226?

Let's get guilds insta boosted to level 40 so we all have the guild wvw buffs ready as soon as we enter!

Oh you must be right. Let's make increase it so that guilds need level 400 to get all wvw buffs.

See, I can do nonsensical hyperbole too, except I'm much more concise about it. And idk about you, but I liked pre-hot when there wasn't all these pve-style grinds. But I guess pve game is pve game.

Also it seems like people don't seem to make any distinction between mandatory and optional grind. Legendaries and even most wvw abilities are hardly needed to compete in wvw. Mounts on the other hand are a bit more important. Furthermore, this entire situation only came along because of mounts.

You must have missed the memo that wvw was always a pve/pvp hybrid, if you wanted to skip pve grinds spvp was also available for that. The only real massive grind in wvw is the guild hall upgrades which forces you to pve for most of it.

Yea, I know. I recall the devs saying if you're into wvw, you're into pve. This is widely mocked around this part for good reason. I think you might have missed the memo that 99% of the game's grind is mostly for fashion wars. This is why we don't have levels past 80 or gear past ascended.

Mounts aren't mandatory, gliders aren't mandatory, elite specs aren't mandatory, masteries aren't mandatory, exotic ascended legendary aren't mandatory, guild halls aren't mandatory, the only mandatory thing in wvw is getting the minimum level to enter it, everything else beyond that is optional, just depends on how easy or hard you want the game to be for yourself.

These cannot be compared, remotely. Ascended to exotic is a 10-15% difference. It can drop randomly from any content and can be acquired in any content. It also doesn't allow you to arbitrarily escape fights. WvW masteries are a non-issue. While it may prevent you from getting on siege, it doesn't hinder you from fighting players at all.

Nobody loses fights because they had exotic gear or missed wvw mastery points. If they did, it's really just an excuse. Especs maybe, but that's basically handed out to you.

Gliding is definitely a borderline issue, but unlike mounts isn't timegated.

You also did put in work for that mount with the reward track, those 80 potions from dailies didn't suddenly fall into your bag, but you write it off because overall you hate grinds, and that's fine too, you do have the option to skip it all, which you kinda did by doing the dailies and getting the potions beforehand.

But the work is NOT equal to the work put in by anyone that starts now. I acquired these potions when other people did not have mounts, and definitely did not have to deal with a disadvantage of dismounted vs mounted.

It is harder, and that fact should be appreciated, especially in a aging and probably dying game mode like this.

At this point they should just give out the mount like they did with gliders, put a mastery point in it and unlocked. My only complaint is people wanting to skip stuff or make things easier without spending time to gain the knowledge and experience to function in wvw. To get the mount isn't hard and isn't a grind, the OP's friend spent all that time running after lord circles when killing one guard would have done the job, that one piece of knowledge would have saved them a lot of time and irritation and they probably wouldn't have even bothered to post in here.

The problem I see is with the timegated nature of reward tracks. The game loves its timegates, meaning a semi-afk leech earns as much as someone that is actively playing all the time. My thinking is that playing well (w/e that means) should reduce the time involved outside of boosters.

But the game encourages mediocrity and hates excellence, so I guess we're stuck with this.

Personally I see no problem with increasing reward track rate globally, as that would benefit all players and wvw rewards are generally horrifically behind pve ones. If we accept that wvw is a mix of both, then it's only fair the balance be closer. WvW'ers are conditioned to believe that the status quo is the correct one due to negligence of said game mode-- truth is, we've been left behind and saving what's left requires radical changes. Let's not gate everything so heavily just to make a quick buck.

And that's the other thing that annoys me about some of these grinds. The Guild Hall and mount grinds were money grabs; the former being the worst because it took away what people had. So as a result I cannot really agree with them. But hey, with 8k hours played, 4.4k wvw ranks, 12 sets of ascended armor, ~100 ascended feasts, a legendary set, fractal savant, full shared inventory + perma bank + ecto gamble portal, and about 400 daily wvw potions saved, you can't really say I haven't grinded out of my own free will, eh? xD Not all grinds are the same.

@LetoII.3782 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:While I do think the gating of the warclaw is garbage, I have helped multiple people get their warclaws, with some being completely new to wvw so.... no, not impossible. Just need more awareness.

Though they'll have a better time playing something like a warrior which has good durability and mobility while also being very welcome in zergs. Engineer is also decent and doesn't require getting Holo though it'd still be nice.

@XenesisII.1540 said:

@gloflop.3510 said:

@XenesisII.1540 said:(...) but they created a barrier to wvw and in the process hurt new or pve players more than vet wvw players (...)

This piece of a sentence is in my eyes the key of the problem. The suggestions coming up here are more or less all work-arounds. We need to get the problem solved not the symptoms.

All vets had to go through the same process of obtaining the warclaw, the only difference is our knowledge/experience we were already using "work-arounds" to move around the map long before warclaws were a thing, new and pve players don't have that advantage, but we are offering that now in this thread and others that have come before it. Want the mount, put in the work, everyone else did.

What work? I put 80 potions in to instantly finish the reward track when it came out. It's nothing to be proud of, and I wouldn't be bothered at all if they removed it.

Very much agree.We knew weeks in advance it was coming, and if you logged in within the first few weeks of warclaw release you'd have a ktrain of PvE'rs getting their mount. Took most of a month to get back to business as usual. With all the leveling, equipment acquisition and just plain lack of skill a newbie is

already

facing, being left in the dust is downright kitten

Well, considering the fact that we had the foresight to save those potions, unlike people that did not and hard to be a burden on others, I think we deserve our mounts to run 5% faster. It should reward for our hoardingtenacity

[Secret.6813]

A lot of you have valid points and I do not dispute any of them. But one thing I hear constantly every time I return to the game and do some solid WvW is how lacking in players WvW has.... I wonder why that is? Perhaps some of you are on the top tier servers, maybe you're not but it varies from tier to tier and hour to hour as not everyone plays during prime hours. Most gw2 players don't like WvW. There are various reasons why and perhaps this situation is not helping the case. So let's consider what it's like for the majority of players who joined in and decided that they couldn't keep up and left. We know it is up to the individual player to learn and progress through the game like everyone else. However, most of you were already established players when the warclaw came out or are very social and instantly looked for a guild (not everyone operates like you). So the question at hand was presented to arena.net more so, about how are they going to help you and your servers have more WvW players.

The player in question is already well onto his ascended gear in pve and it's only been a 2 weeks. So I don't think he in particular is going to have an issue getting that Warclaw and progressing WvW when he feels ready to keep up. But just listening to his experience has enlightened me enough to make this post. If one person feels this way, others feel this way.

Edit: Also, first impressions are often the most important!

[DrCalgori.4659]

On 2/1/2020 at 7:11 AM, Secret.6813 said:

A lot of you have valid points and I do not dispute any of them. But one thing I hear constantly every time I return to the game and do some solid WvW is how lacking in players WvW has.... I wonder why that is? Perhaps some of you are on the top tier servers, maybe you're not but it varies from tier to tier and hour to hour as not everyone plays during prime hours. Most gw2 players don't like WvW. There are various reasons why and perhaps this situation is not helping the case. So let's consider what it's like for the majority of players who joined in and decided that they couldn't keep up and left. We know it is up to the individual player to learn and progress through the game like everyone else. However, most of you were already established players when the warclaw came out or are very social and instantly looked for a guild (not everyone operates like you). So the question at hand was presented to arena.net more so, about how are they going to help you and your servers have more WvW players.

The player in question is already well onto his ascended gear in pve and it's only been a 2 weeks. So I don't think he in particular is going to have an issue getting that Warclaw and progressing WvW when he feels ready to keep up. But just listening to his experience has enlightened me enough to make this post. If one person feels this way, others feel this way.

Edit: Also, first impressions are often the most important!

New player trying to grind memories in WvW to build my leggy GS. It's unplayable for new players without a Warclaw. You can't get to the pack since you're picked off on the way there, when you're with the pack you can't keep up since everyones on mounts.

 

Mounts is literally the worst introduction to WvW and it shits on new players. Its an arbitrary gate that locks out any new interest in the mode. At least after this weeks event memories will drop their price so i can skip this mode entirely.

[Ronin.4501]

35 minutes ago, DrCalgori.4659 said:

New player trying to grind memories in WvW to build my leggy GS. It's unplayable for new players without a Warclaw. You can't get to the pack since you're picked off on the way there, when you're with the pack you can't keep up since everyones on mounts.

 

Mounts is literally the worst introduction to WvW and it shits on new players. Its an arbitrary gate that locks out any new interest in the mode. At least after this weeks event memories will drop their price so i can skip this mode entirely.

I hate to say it, but players such as yourself are why there ARE players/commanders who aren't interested in helping newer players.  A majority of us play WvW because we like the game-mode, mount or no mount.  You're out in WvW not because you enjoy it, but because Anet has forced you to enter the game-mode to work on your legendary.  A lot of us aren't too keen to help someone who wants nothing to do with the game-mode but only to help themselves to an item.

 

Furthermore, getting the mount will only make WvW easier in some situations.  Wait til you've got your mount but fall behind your group because you got caught up on some invisible barrier and a ranger dismounts you in 2-3 shots and in the few seconds you're disabled after you've been dismounted and said ranger uses another 2-3 skills to put you into downstate. 

 

If you're serious about the gamemode other players are usually willing to help more often than not.  And if you're only here to benefit yourself, find others in a similar situation (there are ALWAYS PvE players coming out to WvW to work on their legendaries) on the forums or in LFG.  It's not that hard.

[joneirikb.7506]

Just to mention, WarClaw has a WXP mastery that shares its speed with nearby players, so if you do catch up with the group, you'll likely run at the same speed as they do on warclaws. 

[Zyreva.1078]

1 hour ago, joneirikb.7506 said:

Just to mention, WarClaw has a WXP mastery that shares its speed with nearby players, so if you do catch up with the group, you'll likely run at the same speed as they do on warclaws. 

Until something puts that poor newbie into combat. Zergs almost never stop to help in that case. Not having a mount is like having a big glowing "gank me" sign above your head and puts anyone and new players in particular at a servere disadvantage. One of many reasons why a mount should have never been added to WvW.

Edited July 24, 2021 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Zikory.6871]

3 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Until something puts that poor newbie into combat. Zergs almost never stop to help in that case. Not having a mount is like having a big glowing "gank me" sign above your head and puts anyone and new players in particular at a servere disadvantage. One of many reasons why a mount should have never been added to WvW.

Its funny people seem to forget the same thing happened before mounts too. New people are just at a disadvantage. 

Join comms, use your mic, communicate. I've never seen a commander not acknowledge a voice request from a new player. Like a new player that joins coms and has a mic, that's a prime recruit. 

Or you can just keep to yourself and wonder why no one is reading your mind and providing all the things you want for you. 🤷‍♀️

[Daredevil.2745]

new player is simply a walking lootbag, it doesn't have eyes

[LSD.4673]

18 hours ago, DrCalgori.4659 said:

New player trying to grind memories in WvW to build my leggy GS. It's unplayable for new players without a Warclaw. You can't get to the pack since you're picked off on the way there, when you're with the pack you can't keep up since everyones on mounts.

 

Mounts is literally the worst introduction to WvW and it shits on new players. Its an arbitrary gate that locks out any new interest in the mode. At least after this weeks event memories will drop their price so i can skip this mode entirely.

I only got PoF a few months ago. The pre-nerf Warclaw was terrible for keeping up with, but post nerf, any mobility setup can easily keep up. If it's that hard then stop going with the zerg: as a new player it's not like you contribute anything, so you're just there to leech. Which means you're here complaining you can't leech enough. For shame.

 

Go take camps, defend, repair. Stop trying to Mad King Lab WvW.

[saerni.2584]

If you ask people will help you get Warclaw. I helped a new player just the other day with this. It isn't that hard and just takes some basics:

1. Unlock the Warclaw Mastery

2. Do the Warclaw Reward Track

3. Complete the Warclaw Meta Achievement 

 

The Warclaw is helpful but you don't need it to do well in WvW. And it's easy to get so you won't be without it for long. 

[bigo.9037]

Wow. We have build templates.. and I’m guessing pve folks or new players have access to at least 2, so since you’re grinding wvw might as well make a template with extra mobility. All you need is like 2 leaps and swiftness access and you’ll keep up with blob. It’s that easy.  
 

When I started playing gw2 as my main game in 2013 I had ppl tell the truth as it is when people complained about stupid things like “I can’t keep up” or “nerf all damage cus I’m dying in 2seconds to 1 guy”.. instead of just getting better mobility and running more toughness and protection boons to stay alive longer. 
 

I took their advice as a newbie and then I kept at it and got better. New ppl should do the same. Ask for advice, don’t complain about something you don’t know.