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@Extacy.6192 said:Coalescence of Ruin - cooldown increase is absurd. Just nerf the damage accordingly (33%) and leave the cooldown as it is now. Hammer 1,3 and 5 nerfs are enough.

I don't agree with this at all. a skill with a 1.75 damage modifier on a 4 second cooldown is not healthy.A little math: 2000 x 1.75 is another way of saying 2000 x 175%.2000 x 1 = 2000 (to reflect the 1.0, without the extra .75, which 1.0 also translates to 100%, or 1)2000 x 10% (.10) = 200 (base to lead into the further math, starting at 10% and working up to the 75%)200 x 7 (to reflect 70%) = 14001400 + 100 (10% is 200, half of that is 5%, which means half of 200 is 100) = 15002000 + 1500 = 3500That's base damage. add a crit, which changes depending on how much crit damage % you have, aka ferocityassuming you have 200%.... 3500 x 2 = 70007000....on a 4s cd.

If we nerf the damage by 33%:lets take the crit hit as an example.7000 x 10% = 700700 x 3 = 21001% of 7000 is 7070 x 3 = 210so roughly a 2310 damage nerf7000 - 2310 = 4690 crit hit, halve that as we are using the crit and assuming the base is doubled when critting and that's 2345 base.Much better but critting for almost 5k every 4 seconds is just not healthy to me.

possible 7k (give or take, depending on crit damage mod) over 10s vs approx 11,725 over 10s. I'm going with the nerf to the cd instead of the nerf to the damage.

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The only thing extending cooldowns will do is make the game more boring. Its better to reduce the ways you can deal damage. Higher cds in any game just encourage having higher numbers because then good players have less options as far as using their skills or stuff and after theyve used their stuff the bad players with more numbers win because they have more stuff to use then the outnumbered good players. Also empty vessel removal is overkill and destroys invocation traitline, rev cant choose to have more stun breaks on a particular legend. This just makes certain legends less viable then others. I have to check and see if you can swap legends while disabled because if you cant then you wont be able to swap legends to use a stun break.

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SpvpA totally important change would be for the game to be more focused on objectives and not on killing players.normally in Spvp the base counts 5pt by tick and 5pt by enemy kill.This should be changed to 5 pt for base tick and 1 pt for enemy kill. this will cause people not to focus on just killing enemies.Defending and capturing the nodes I think it would be the most important.

sorry for my English.

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@Ghos.1326 said:

@Extacy.6192 said:Coalescence of Ruin - cooldown increase is absurd. Just nerf the damage accordingly (33%) and leave the cooldown as it is now. Hammer 1,3 and 5 nerfs are enough.

I don't agree with this at all. a skill with a 1.75 damage modifier on a 4 second cooldown is not healthy.A little math: 2000 x 1.75 is another way of saying 2000 x 175%.2000 x 1 = 2000 (to reflect the 1.0, without the extra .75, which 1.0 also translates to 100%, or 1)2000 x 10% (.10) = 200 (base to lead into the further math, starting at 10% and working up to the 75%)200 x 7 (to reflect 70%) = 14001400 + 100 (10% is 200, half of that is 5%, which means half of 200 is 100) = 15002000 + 1500 = 3500That's base damage. add a crit, which changes depending on how much crit damage % you have, aka ferocityassuming you have 200%.... 3500 x 2 = 70007000....on a 4s cd.

If we nerf the damage by 33%:lets take the crit hit as an example.7000 x 10% = 700700 x 3 = 21001% of 7000 is 7070 x 3 = 210so roughly a 2310 damage nerf7000 - 2310 = 4690 crit hit, halve that as we are using the crit and assuming the base is doubled when critting and that's 2345 base.Much better but critting for almost 5k every 4 seconds is just not healthy to me.

possible 7k (give or take, depending on crit damage mod) over 10s vs approx 11,725 over 10s. I'm going with the nerf to the cd instead of the nerf to the damage.

Ok. I guess a 50% cooldown increase to 6s and a 33% dmg nerf would be fine. This way the ability could at least be used 2/3 times before the next weapon swap instead of 1/2 times. I just think 10s is way too long. The weapon doesn't offer that much otherwise, it was only really used in wvw zerging and a 10s cd would be devastating.

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All power build got hit hard, seems like warrior was hit very hard in regards to core builds. a lot of the variety towards picking different weapons to use will be diminished in many classes. Makes me wonder if the dev team actually plays the game? seems like a overall nerf just to nerf and condition damage was a big issue more than power after all the nerfs to one shot builds, but seems like condition wasn't touched as much. My main concern is to see how Arenanet can keep every class viable so others don't become the "go to class to rank" like Thief, elementalist, Firebrand, mesmers these current "go to classes".

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I like these changes. These changes may make me play the game again. I was getting frustrated how the game transitioned from developing skill in a nich build to meta's and rock paper scissors. If I feel like I can dodge skills again with impact and won't be out-healed despite landing all of my damage, I will Rejoin the pvp community. Right now in the Spammy meta, noone gets real rep for getting good at the game. At least not like ranked in other pvp games. With these changes, this may change. I had quit the game for a while because practice just had no impact in a 5 vs 5 situation where not having defenses up for less then 1 second meant instant death and most players had defenses or healing up nearly 100% of the time to counter this.

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So why exactly hasnt Arcane Thievery been touched in any other way than slightly reducing the default condi and boon it applies? It is the old Plague Signet with the full condi transfer and the full removal of boons of Corrupt Boon without downsides of either. It is also unblockable with only 0.25s cast time. The skill is way too versatile to be at 25s CD and no downsides

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A few things that could be changed / nerfed :

  • Arcane Thievery and corrupt boon are still animationless, long range, unblockable : those skills are just ridiculous. If you really want to give counterplay then add animations and possibility to block. Add a small damage if you want it to pop aegis.
  • Warrior GS burst : still no difference between the power levels.
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@Swadow.6213 said:So why exactly hasnt Arcane Thievery been touched in any other way than slightly reducing the default condi and boon it applies? It is the old Plague Signet with the full condi transfer and the full removal of boons of Corrupt Boon without downsides of either. It is also unblockable with only 0.25s cast time. The skill is way too versatile to be at 25s CD and no downsides

You know that this skill is good only versus high boon spam or high condi spam ? Particulary if they gut the side quickness/slow effects ?

@aymnad.9023 said:A few things that could be changed / nerfed :

  • Arcane Thievery and corrupt boon are still animationless, long range, unblockable : those skills are just ridiculous. If you really want to give counterplay then add animations and possibility to block. Add a small damage if you want it to pop aegis.

Yeah, give it the same counterplay and possibility to block than : necro fear / thief steal / rev,gard precast teleport etc. Mean apart warrior (who even if you see the animation it doesn't mean that you can counter everything he pop.), every class has something to be looked at who aren't touch during this patch...Mean give me your class I will list all the cheese it has then we can talk about what you find op on other class.

Note that ironically, currently Arcane Thievery best use case is in a mirror duel of condi mirage.

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The notes list changes to the Guardian heal skill Litany of Wrath as being:"Litany of Wrath: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds"

This skill in game has a 20 second cooldown. Adding a flat 10 seconds to it due to a mistake like this will see it never be used as it is very easy to punish. The wiki also lists it as being 25s so I assume that may be where they are getting their numbers.

There may be other errors like this that could lead to unintended changes to many classes. I only noticed this one since I have played solely guardian since launch and know the numbers by heart, and something didn't add up when I read the notes.

It would be well worth looking through the notes they listed for your class and verifying that 2+2 does indeed equal 4. Because when they put the numbers to live your class may be hit harder than is the intention of the patch.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^NEEDS LOOKED INTO BY A DEV CONTAINS ERRORS IN UPCOMING PATCH^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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@"Gwaihir.1745" said:The notes list changes to the Guardian heal skill Litany of Wrath as being:"Litany of Wrath: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds"

This skill in game has a 20 second cooldown. Adding a flat 10 seconds to it due to a mistake like this will see it never be used as it is very easy to punish. The wiki also lists it as being 25s so I assume that may be where they are getting their numbers.

There may be other errors like this that could lead to unintended changes to many classes. I only noticed this one since I have played solely guardian since launch and know the numbers by heart, and something didn't add up when I read the notes.

It would be well worth looking through the notes they listed for your class and verifying that 2+2 does indeed equal 4. Because when they put the numbers to live your class may be hit harder than is the intention of the patch.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^NEEDS LOOKED INTO BY A DEV CONTAINS ERRORS IN UPCOMING PATCH^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think you're mistaken. Its only 20s when traited with monks focus else it is indeed 25s.

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@viquing.8254 said:

@aymnad.9023 said:A few things that could be changed / nerfed :
  • Arcane Thievery and corrupt boon are still animationless, long range, unblockable : those skills are just ridiculous. If you really want to give counterplay then add animations and possibility to block. Add a small damage if you want it to pop aegis.

Yeah, give it the same counterplay and possibility to block than : necro fear / thief steal / rev,gard precast teleport etc. Mean apart warrior (who even if you see the animation it doesn't mean that you can counter everything he pop.), every class has something to be looked at who aren't touch during this patch...Mean give me your class I will list all the cheese it has then we can talk about what you find op on other class.

Note that ironically, currently Arcane Thievery best use case is in a mirror duel of condi mirage.Your lack of arguments makes it clear. You know it is broken.You like this skill? Fine. It is strong. TOO STRONG. And none of the things I mentioned will diminish its value (allowing blocks and adding an animation).Also just so you know my opinion about your comparison :Fear can be prevented (stab resistance). This one cannot.Guard is noticeable and has an animation before hitting. Only if you combo with quickness and different skills does it become as strong as you want me to believe. So you need investment and it can be blocked.Rev is strong but not because of the tp. More because of everything else around it.Thief is crazy. I hate this professions mechanics and want to see it nerfed. But not as crazy as arcane thievery baseline !!!!!! At least thief has to trait for it.

Here you just get a low cd cleanse, boonsteal unblockable and a few bonuses for free!

My point is clear : This skill does way too much without any investment or risks and on a low cd.Feel free to give more examples that do has much.

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@aymnad.9023 said:

@aymnad.9023 said:A few things that could be changed / nerfed :
  • Arcane Thievery and corrupt boon are still animationless, long range, unblockable : those skills are just ridiculous. If you really want to give counterplay then add animations and possibility to block. Add a small damage if you want it to pop aegis.

Yeah, give it the same counterplay and possibility to block than : necro fear / thief steal / rev,gard precast teleport etc. Mean apart warrior (who even if you see the animation it doesn't mean that you can counter everything he pop.), every class has something to be looked at who aren't touch during this patch...Mean give me your class I will list all the cheese it has then we can talk about what you find op on other class.

Note that ironically, currently Arcane Thievery best use case is in a mirror duel of condi mirage.Your lack of arguments makes it clear. You know it is broken.You like this skill? Fine. It is strong. TOO STRONG. And none of the things I mentioned will diminish its value (allowing blocks and adding an animation).Also just so you know my opinion about your comparison :Fear can be prevented (stab resistance). This one cannot.Guard is noticeable and has an animation before hitting. Only if you combo with quickness and different skills does it become as strong as you want me to believe. So you need investment and it can be blocked.Rev is strong but not because of the tp. More because of everything else around it.Thief is crazy. I hate this professions mechanics and want to see it nerfed. But not as crazy as arcane thievery baseline !!!!!! At least thief has to trait for it.

Here you just get a low cd cleanse, boonsteal unblockable and a few bonuses for free!

My point is clear : This skill does way too much without any investment or risks and on a low cd.Feel free to give more examples that do has much.

Are you talking about YOUR lack of arguments ?How many class have to invest into condiclear utility in the current meta ? Nearly all take one trait who do the coffee and they are fine.Prevent fear by stab = the best way to get feared by corrupt, thanks for this obvious counterfact. I haven't usable resistance in my toolbar since they delete glamour trait.Guard/rev etc have noticeable animation if they didn't precast hidden by a LoS. (Note that guard always has a condiclear who did damage in his toolbar, even if nerfed.)Thief is basically immune to condi. Even with no trait their utilities condiclear baseline. (And what about binding shadow if we talk about strong pressure utilities.)

My point is : you probably never use this skill because when used to condiclear a condi burst, chances are high that the opponent evade with basic evade or weapon evade and each second you wait to time, you take 20% to 40% HP. (Basically show me your AT rate versus a condi weaver.)Then when using to boon steal, you are dependant of what the opponent pull (basically guys who spam 25 might (which is fucking more op to maintain a near perma might uptime than stealing it.).) and you can give more pressure to a class depending of long CD boons (basically necro.).

So I clearly don't find it op in regards to the uses cases compared to other class utility yeah. And if you find it's a no risk skill, maybe you should play it before whinewhining on this forum because you haven't a click to reflect condiburst and if the opponent evade the reflect, you basically die.

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@viquing.8254 said:Are you talking about YOUR lack of arguments ?How many class have to invest into condiclear utility in the current meta ? Nearly all take one trait who do the coffee and they are fine.Prevent fear by stab = the best way to get feared by corrupt, thanks for this obvious counterfact. I haven't usable resistance in my toolbar since they delete glamour trait.Guard/rev etc have noticeable animation if they didn't precast hidden by a LoS. (Note that guard always has a condiclear who did damage in his toolbar, even if nerfed.)Thief is basically immune to condi. Even with no trait their utilities condiclear baseline. (And what about binding shadow if we talk about strong pressure utilities.)

My point is : you probably never use this skill because when used to condiclear a condi burst, chances are high that the opponent evade with basic evade or weapon evade and each second you wait to time, you take 20% to 40% HP. (Basically show me your AT rate versus a condi weaver.)Then when using to boon steal, you are dependant of what the opponent pull (basically guys who spam 25 might (which is kitten more op to maintain a near perma might uptime than stealing it.).) and you can give more pressure to a class depending of long CD boons (basically necro.).

So I clearly don't find it op in regards to the uses cases compared to other class utility yeah. And if you find it's a no risk skill, maybe you should play it before whinewhining on this forum because you haven't a click to reflect condiburst and if the opponent evade the reflect, you basically die.

Since you are clearly biased and making up stuff :Condi clear generally are not that overloaded on both sides (meaning also affecting the ennemy and you)Boon corrupt means another spell used. For fear you can also use a stunbreack to counter it. You also might have missed that I also targeted a boon corrupt with the same lack of tells and strong effects.Guard does not have a range that huge AND has a cast time on arrival AND can be blocked AND needs to chain skills AND is not so overloaded.How many people do evade a spell without any warning and this cast time?If you prefer to tank the condi burst and take the risk rather than using a dispell that is your own issue (it should only be situational) but telling me that nobody will do that or this makes the effect weak is ridiculous.

I have a hard time believing you have no idea how good this is, so instead you decided to play the victim and blame every other profession even using stuff that is not comparable. I have no reason to keep talking to you.Edit : some stuff about other profession makes sense (like might uptime) but they were targeted and have nothing to do with my point => this utility gives too much.Edit 2 : As for thief I hate the profession too much for being able to abuse any mechanics by just spamming it

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@aymnad.9023 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Are you talking about YOUR lack of arguments ?How many class have to invest into condiclear utility in the current meta ? Nearly all take one trait who do the coffee and they are fine.Prevent fear by stab = the best way to get feared by corrupt, thanks for this obvious counterfact. I haven't usable resistance in my toolbar since they delete glamour trait.Guard/rev etc have noticeable animation if they didn't precast hidden by a LoS. (Note that guard always has a condiclear who did damage in his toolbar, even if nerfed.)Thief is basically immune to condi. Even with no trait their utilities condiclear baseline. (And what about binding shadow if we talk about strong pressure utilities.)

My point is : you probably never use this skill because when used to condiclear a condi burst, chances are high that the opponent evade with basic evade or weapon evade and each second you wait to time, you take 20% to 40% HP. (Basically show me your AT rate versus a condi weaver.)Then when using to boon steal, you are dependant of what the opponent pull (basically guys who spam 25 might (which is kitten more op to maintain a near perma might uptime than stealing it.).) and you can give more pressure to a class depending of long CD boons (basically necro.).

So I clearly don't find it op in regards to the uses cases compared to other class utility yeah. And if you find it's a no risk skill, maybe you should play it before whinewhining on this forum because you haven't a click to reflect condiburst and if the opponent evade the reflect, you basically die.

Since you are clearly biased and making up stuff :Condi clear generally are not that overloaded on both sides (meaning also affecting the ennemy and you)Boon corrupt means another spell used. For fear you can also use a stunbreack to counter it. You also might have missed that I also targeted a boon corrupt with the same lack of tells and strong effects.Guard does not have a range that huge AND has a cast time on arrival AND can be blocked AND needs to chain skills AND is not so overloaded.How many people do evade a spell without any warning and this cast time?If you prefer to tank the condi burst and take the risk rather than using a dispell that is your own issue but telling me that nobody will do that or this makes the effect weak is ridiculous.

I have a hard time believing you have no idea how good this is, so instead you deciced to play the victim. So I have no reason to keep talking to you.

Boon corrupt mean : 1) you corrupt a long CD stab, you take advantage. 2) you wait the 1.25 sec mesmer stab duration then put your instant fear. Contrary to what guys think in this forum, mesmer current metabuild has 1 : 25 sec breakstunt.If you prefer to don't tank the condi burst which basically mean you are pewpewting from 1200 range, you will have 0 game impact as they will cap/decap the point, while cleaning the little pressure you put when you aren't in short range.You also miss the condiclear who does damage on guard since release argument.It has a cast time and many people evade this with random dodging rotations or sciently : basically when I put a condi burst on another condi mirage I then F4 to avoid he AT back the condi to me.

Oh yeah and I have no reason to let pass another random whine on mesmer next things to nerf because reasons.

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@viquing.8254 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Are you talking about YOUR lack of arguments ?How many class have to invest into condiclear utility in the current meta ? Nearly all take one trait who do the coffee and they are fine.Prevent fear by stab = the best way to get feared by corrupt, thanks for this obvious counterfact. I haven't usable resistance in my toolbar since they delete glamour trait.Guard/rev etc have noticeable animation if they didn't precast hidden by a LoS. (Note that guard always has a condiclear who did damage in his toolbar, even if nerfed.)Thief is basically immune to condi. Even with no trait their utilities condiclear baseline. (And what about binding shadow if we talk about strong pressure utilities.)

My point is : you probably never use this skill because when used to condiclear a condi burst, chances are high that the opponent evade with basic evade or weapon evade and each second you wait to time, you take 20% to 40% HP. (Basically show me your AT rate versus a condi weaver.)Then when using to boon steal, you are dependant of what the opponent pull (basically guys who spam 25 might (which is kitten more op to maintain a near perma might uptime than stealing it.).) and you can give more pressure to a class depending of long CD boons (basically necro.).

So I clearly don't find it op in regards to the uses cases compared to other class utility yeah. And if you find it's a no risk skill, maybe you should play it before whinewhining on this forum because you haven't a click to reflect condiburst and if the opponent evade the reflect, you basically die.

Since you are clearly biased and making up stuff :Condi clear generally are not that overloaded on both sides (meaning also affecting the ennemy and you)Boon corrupt means another spell used. For fear you can also use a stunbreack to counter it. You also might have missed that I also targeted a boon corrupt with the same lack of tells and strong effects.Guard does not have a range that huge AND has a cast time on arrival AND can be blocked AND needs to chain skills AND is not so overloaded.How many people do evade a spell without any warning and this cast time?If you prefer to tank the condi burst and take the risk rather than using a dispell that is your own issue but telling me that nobody will do that or this makes the effect weak is ridiculous.

I have a hard time believing you have no idea how good this is, so instead you deciced to play the victim. So I have no reason to keep talking to you.

Boon corrupt mean : 1) you corrupt a long CD stab, you take advantage.Boon corrupt is super impactful I agree. But the thing bothering me the most is also the lack of tells on some of those spells. I think the impact should be there, but also have counterplay as soon as you remove more than 2 boons. Even more with the increased cd incoming and the boon rework.

2) you wait the 1.25 sec mesmer stab duration then put your instant fear. Contrary to what guys think in this forum, mesmer current metabuild has 1 : 25 sec breakstunt.So you were thinking more about mesmers matchup? The lack of stab can also be found on other professions. And yes, corruption is a pain.

If you prefer to don't tank the condi burst which basically mean you are pewpewting from 1200 range, you will have 0 game impact as they will cap/decap the point, while cleaning the little pressure you put when you aren't in short range.You also miss the condiclear who does damage on guard since release argument.I never liked traits that do damage. But this one bothered me less than the war rock because it comes out less often and does less damage.

It has a cast time and many people evade this with random dodging rotations or sciently : basically when I put a condi burst on another condi mirage I then F4 to avoid he AT back the condi to me.The cast time is really small and the animation only comes after. Don't you think it is better to have a noticeable effect where you can be rewarded for dodging correctly rather than burning endurance or cds on possibly nothing? When playing on physical this is more like I lose might and fury and get vuln. Still not bad.

Oh yeah and I have no reason to let pass another random whine on mesmer next things to nerf because reasons.It is not because of reasons. I think as soon as spells do have that many effects they should either have cd increased, effects that you can interrupt or do little damage. I did not want to target the cd or the effects, targeting the animation is more fair because you still allow the mesmer to use it to dispel on both himself and the enemy (still gives a good effect vs condi, still gives a good effect vs boons) but also gives a drawback to an otherwise loaded skill.
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@aymnad.9023 said:

@viquing.8254 said:Are you talking about YOUR lack of arguments ?How many class have to invest into condiclear utility in the current meta ? Nearly all take one trait who do the coffee and they are fine.Prevent fear by stab = the best way to get feared by corrupt, thanks for this obvious counterfact. I haven't usable resistance in my toolbar since they delete glamour trait.Guard/rev etc have noticeable animation if they didn't precast hidden by a LoS. (Note that guard always has a condiclear who did damage in his toolbar, even if nerfed.)Thief is basically immune to condi. Even with no trait their utilities condiclear baseline. (And what about binding shadow if we talk about strong pressure utilities.)

My point is : you probably never use this skill because when used to condiclear a condi burst, chances are high that the opponent evade with basic evade or weapon evade and each second you wait to time, you take 20% to 40% HP. (Basically show me your AT rate versus a condi weaver.)Then when using to boon steal, you are dependant of what the opponent pull (basically guys who spam 25 might (which is kitten more op to maintain a near perma might uptime than stealing it.).) and you can give more pressure to a class depending of long CD boons (basically necro.).

So I clearly don't find it op in regards to the uses cases compared to other class utility yeah. And if you find it's a no risk skill, maybe you should play it before whinewhining on this forum because you haven't a click to reflect condiburst and if the opponent evade the reflect, you basically die.

Since you are clearly biased and making up stuff :Condi clear generally are not that overloaded on both sides (meaning also affecting the ennemy and you)Boon corrupt means another spell used. For fear you can also use a stunbreack to counter it. You also might have missed that I also targeted a boon corrupt with the same lack of tells and strong effects.Guard does not have a range that huge AND has a cast time on arrival AND can be blocked AND needs to chain skills AND is not so overloaded.How many people do evade a spell without any warning and this cast time?If you prefer to tank the condi burst and take the risk rather than using a dispell that is your own issue but telling me that nobody will do that or this makes the effect weak is ridiculous.

I have a hard time believing you have no idea how good this is, so instead you deciced to play the victim. So I have no reason to keep talking to you.

Boon corrupt mean : 1) you corrupt a long CD stab, you take advantage.Boon corrupt is super impactful I agree. But the thing bothering me the most is also the lack of tells on some of those spells. I think the impact should be there, but also have counterplay as soon as you remove more than 2 boons. Even more with the increased cd incoming and the boon rework.

2) you wait the 1.25 sec mesmer stab duration then put your instant fear. Contrary to what guys think in this forum, mesmer current metabuild has 1 : 25 sec breakstunt.So you were thinking more about mesmers matchup? The lack of stab can also be found on other professions. And yes, corruption is a pain.

If you prefer to don't tank the condi burst which basically mean you are pewpewting from 1200 range, you will have 0 game impact as they will cap/decap the point, while cleaning the little pressure you put when you aren't in short range.You also miss the condiclear who does damage on guard since release argument.I never liked traits that do damage. But this one bothered me less than the war rock because it comes out less often and does less damage.

It has a cast time and many people evade this with random dodging rotations or sciently : basically when I put a condi burst on another condi mirage I then F4 to avoid he AT back the condi to me.The cast time is really small and the animation only comes after. Don't you think it is better to have a noticeable effect where you can be rewarded for dodging correctly rather than burning endurance or cds on possibly nothing? When playing on physical this is more like I lose might and fury and get vuln. Still not bad.

Oh yeah and I have no reason to let pass another random whine on mesmer next things to nerf because reasons.It is not because of reasons. I think as soon as spells do have that many effects they should either have cd increased, effects that you can interrupt or do little damage. I did not want to target the cd or the effects, targeting the animation is more fair because you still allow the mesmer to use it to dispel on both himself and the enemy (still gives a good effect vs condi, still gives a good effect vs boons) but also gives a drawback to an otherwise loaded skill.

We will see but currently their is 3 main condi class : weaver, mesmer and FB. (And necro who output some condi baseline.).

  • Versus weavers, landing AT is kinda random as they will put some evade in their base rotation.
  • Versus Mesmer, as I said once they have some condi on them, it's easy to counter their AT by F4, evade or LoS if you don't want to burn CD.
  • Versus FB, they don't care about steal boon/send condi as they will instantly clear condi/repop boons.
  • Versus Necro, even if reaper can be hurt while loosing swiftness, they can put more swiftness than you can clear and globally don't really care about condi.

So basically with your suggestion, it will only change something for necro while :

  • Weaver will have a 100% evade AT rate.
  • Mesmers will have 100% evade AT rate while not needed to LoS/anticipate CD.
  • FB will not care more than now.

This is for the condi part.

Now for the boon part, basically versus other class :

  • Versus war, you will steal his Fury + 25 might. They will clear your condi so AT basically mean having 25 might during a burst time and they can come back to their might uptime near instantly.
  • Versus thief, well landing a AT versus a thief is pure luck. And you haven't good boon to steal, even during plasma. And they are immune to condi.
  • Versus Ranger and holo you will steal some spike boon, they don't really care about condi burst but it's a think versus some high CD boon on ranger.
  • Versus Rev, like war on the boon part, they will popup their boon back as soon as you steal them. They can be hurt by the condi part thought.

With you change, it mean that

  • War will always evade AT because they have the tools and endurance to burn evade on it.
  • Thief didn't care like now.
  • Ranger, Holo and Rev will have more period to evade.

What will happened is that people will come back to either Mantra of Resolve or Inspiration if condi mirage get destroy with his 1 evade and condi core become meta.This skill ins't currently "THE" op key skill who will make you win the game as it's so-so against 6/9 class.Longer cast time and animation will make mesmer less reactive while his gameplay is currently most passive based...

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@"Cal Cohen.2358" said:Hi Everyone,

Today we’re previewing the upcoming balance update. We’re starting with a bit of process and general thoughts, then following up with a pile of patch notes. Note that this post is identical for the PvP and WvW subforums (minus the changes to PvP build items), but duplicated for the purpose of more easily obtaining mode-specific feedback.

This post will only be discussing the competitive splits. Check out the rest of the update at https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96747/balance-patch-preview-global

The scope of this update ended up being slightly unreal in the raw number of changes, but there are only a handful of underlying ideas that were then considered against every skill and trait in the game. It so happens that there are a lot of those around here, and so a lot of changes ended up being made.

These changes are not final, and we’re expecting to make further adjustments based on player feedback as well as our own internal review. Some of the upcoming functional changes still need to be looked at for potential splits as well, but we feel that the overall list is in a good enough spot to gather feedback.

Future Balance Cadence

This patch is unusual in that it’s more about establishing a new paradigm than it is a regular balance update, and the result is a giant set of changes. Moving forward with competitive balance, we want to make smaller adjustments more often. The specific cadence for balance will always depend on our overall release schedule, but ideally it will be closer to every 4-6 weeks, while still having the opportunity to make minor tweaks outside of the regular balance update. The goal here is to have better flexibility to fix problems in a timely manner.

PvP and WvW

For this initial update, the bulk of the splits are being applied to both PvP and WvW because the underlying ideas are applicable to both modes. The end result is going to be radically different and moving forward we will be doing more separation and targeted adjustments on a per-mode basis.

Now we’re going to dive into more detail on some of the main targets of the update and our main goals moving forward. If you have no interest in power coefficients, damage calculations, or other assorted jargon you may want to scroll down until you hit the start of the patch notes.

Damage

For this update, we’re targeting a 2.0 power coefficient as the new baseline for big damage skills. These are the skills like Eviscerate; skills that exist to deal large amounts of damage and not do much else. Skills that provide more and more value in other aspects (cc, sustain, mobility, defense, etc.) will have lower power coefficients. In some cases, we’ve pared down the secondary value and in others we’ve shaved the damage. It really comes down to what the desired purpose of the skill is, and as such how much of the skill’s power budget should be spent on damage. The 2.0 is not a hard cap, just the general top-end for single hit, high damaging abilities.

One thing to keep in mind with damage calculation is the differences in weapon strength. For example, a 2.0 coefficient with an axe is approximately equivalent to a 1.82 coefficient with a hammer due to the hammer’s higher weapon strength.

With a marauder amulet and no outside modifiers, a 2.0 coefficient with a 1-handed weapon equates to about a 3.9k crit against a light-armor target. Our goal here is that players should need to invest into damage traits, slot offensive utility skills, and sequence abilities around might and vulnerability stacks in order to achieve significant damage numbers.

Condition damage reductions are a bit less math-y, but we’re continuing to push conditions toward less burst potential by reducing the number of stacks and extending durations where it makes sense. Some of this is handled on the skill level, and we’re also making heavy reductions to traits that apply conditions on hit, on crit, or on other conditions being applied.

Cooldowns and Durations

We want cooldowns to be felt. Longer cooldowns promote more calculated usage of skills; if skills are used poorly it should create an opportunity for the enemy to push their advantage. Shorter durations of high impact buffs have a similar effect. Skillful timing is going to be rewarded, and poor usage is going to be exploitable by enemies. In some cases, it’s still going to make sense to have a longer duration attached to a longer cooldown, but most of the time we’re looking at shorter durations for things like stability, protection, quickness, high might stacks, among others.

Sustain

Raw healing is always going to be closely tied to damage. As damage comes down, healing needs to be reduced as well. As mentioned above, we want to see more opportunity between cooldowns to push through damage, so we’re primarily targeting skills and traits with lower cooldowns or constantly pulsing heals.

Instant Skills and Passive Traits

Counterplay is important. Skills that have a major impact on an enemy player should allow that player the opportunity to react, which means that we want to avoid instant skills that do large amounts of damage or hard cc. In general, this means that instant skills are going to deal less damage or focus more on a secondary effect where applicable. Traits that fire instant skills, or that trigger an offensive effect under easy to fulfill conditions (on hit, on crit, mid-high health threshold, etc.) received similar considerations.

We’ve also done a pass on traits that provide automatic defensive triggers. Traits that negate incoming CC or grant hard damage mitigation are getting large cooldown increases. Lesser defensive procs (protection on cc, auto condition cleanse, etc.) are also receiving longer cooldowns or reduced effectiveness, though not as extreme. We want to promote more active gameplay and this update is a good opportunity to make heavier adjustments to these passive traits.

Patch Notes

Moving on to the patch notes. Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have some time to iterate. We look forward to seeing your feedback.

-The Systems Team

Question about Flamethrower skill 2: Does it count as an explosion? If not, can you make that happen?

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@"viquing.8254" said:Longer cast time and animation will make mesmer less reactive while his gameplay is currently most passive based...

I am confused, how does a good visible animation and a fair cast time on that skill make Mesmer less reactive? From my point of view it makes the whole interaction from both sides more reactive. For the target it now is able to reactively dodge that skill on purpose and the Mesmer is able to bait dodges with it by stowing casts. Also i think the reduced quickness and slow is fair (even outside of the big patch) but a better animation and a 0,5s casttime would have been the more important changes to that skill.

But in general the passive playstyle from Condimesmer (not only Mirage, the problem starts with too much condi dmg on normal autoattacks from clones already, then that core problem gets just doubled by Mirage, because condi clone ambushes are also more powerful than the power weapon clone ambushes for no reason) is the big problem, not this utility.

And this problem of too passive playstyle of Condimirage because of op autoattacks and ambushes of condi clones doesn't even get solved by the one dodge change (ofc clone dmg gets reduced indirectly by that and also by the bleeding trait nerf but that hurts the active ways of condi application and the in general more active and skilled power builds way more than it solves the root of the problem = the op condi ambushes and condi autoattacks from condi clones). Instead of destroying the whole spec with an unneeded 4. trade off and make Mirage more passive, they should have reduced condi clone autoattacks to nearly zero condi dmg and directly nerf/ change condi clone ambushes. I have no idea why they prefer nerfs which also affect not op and skilled power builds and active condi gameplay even more than the actually op and passive condistyle...

Also Chaosline what is clearly the most problematic traitlines from Mesmer (followed by Inspiration), op and noobfriendly as hell no matter what spec, is not nerfed enough. Barely enough inside of the overall nerfs from the big balance patch, for certain not compensating for the current overperforming lvl compared to everything that will get nerfed on other classes too.

The Mirage or Coremesmer builds we will see in PvP after patch will be just as braindead and annoying to fight or even more cancer then the current condimeta build. And skilled Mirage builds, not carried by Chaos or Inspiration (or probably even both) will not be seen anymore, they are overnerfed as a spin off from "not meta but usable hardmode for masochists" to "absolutely unplayable".

Btw trade off kitten: I just rethought Tempest again, it got overload mechanic on top of what core has. Anyone knows the inherent trade off or the currently added trade off Tempests have? I fail to recognise it. Weaver got some dual skills, with the inherent trade off to manage the double attunement swap to get to non dual attacks and the in tendency higher skill ceiling/floor added by that. But where is the Tempest trade off? Where is the trade off to Herald and FB?

Also no one could explain to me why Soulbeast got that much harder trade off than Druid, with deleting skills, combos and parts of the mechanic and for that skill ceiling/ floor completely over simple stat penalty on pets. No one could explain to me until now, why it is even needed to add a 2., 3. or even 4. trade off to elite specs which already have at least one or more inherent trade offs right from release (instead just nerfing op parts by dmg reduction, reward reduction, little cd increase on single skills, means with just normal nerfs). I see that Daredevil didn't have an inherent trade off but why such clunky overnerf trade off on steal range, why not 900 range, why adding unblockable in return what is broken and why not instead a toughness penalty to reduce passive sustain as compensation for the more dodges? Some elites get trade offs where core is already the stronger pick. I rly would like to understand.

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