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Upcoming Revenant Changes (Global/PvP/WvW)


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Coalescence of Ruin: Increased cooldown from 4 seconds to 10 seconds

The shortest CD on hammer will be 10s? So Auto attack - 10s -12s -12s - 15s?

Consider leaving the 4s CD so hammer still has something to spend energy on. Instead reduce its effectiveness by adjusting damage or energy cost. Or maybe reducing its range to 900.

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Devastation seems to have gotten some love, but corruption has me worried. On surface it looks all nice but:

  • passive (minor) 20% damage and duration on torment is gone, and parts of it are dismembered across several traits.
  • Venom enhancement is gone as well.
  • Changes to banish enchantment and precision strike aren't going to make Abyssal Chill good. This trait died the moment they changed Call to Anguish into single chill stack....

Then again certain things sound nice but we must see their actual values:

  • poison in addition to fire on diabolic inferno. We need better values than current one, as current version is 8s cooldown, while new one 10s at best (legend swap)
  • Replenishing Despair finally does something worth slotting it. I can see builds based on it happening.
  • Fiendish tenacity can help rev get resistance when switching out of mallyx stance.

That being said compared to necro, corruption rev still suffers in terms of "what do i do with self - applied torment??".offesively - transfer it into enemy - obvious choice (Permeating Pestilence)defensively - ??? it's just there and that's it. You don't covert it to a boon, you don't get stronger healing cause of it, recharge energy or w/e.

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@"Ordin.8341" said:this is like 4'th class forum I'm checking and one thing I can only say that no one is happy witch changes to their classes so if that was the goal then good job devs :)

Yeah it's almost as if people can't wrap their mind around what the devs are actually doing. To be fair, most of the posts completely have no context of anything else but their own class in the current state of the game. I thought the community would have been more thoughtful in the grand scheme of things rather than have such a selfish reaction even though it's stated "everywhere" that "everything" is being changed. Only the 1% is already envisioning their incoming changes and that's sad.

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@Ordin.8341 said:this is like 4'th class forum I'm checking and one thing I can only say that no one is happy witch changes to their classes so if that was the goal then good job devs :)

I think a lot of people are looking at the changes to their profession, seeing that they've been massively nerfed, and not realising that the competition is also getting massively nerfed.

There do seem to be a few boonsmitings in the mix, but mostly it's a broad theme of making the game less spiky. Since pre-HoT days, we've seen damage go up quite a bit while durability outside of availability of damage avoidance frames and third-party healing has remained fairly steady, making it a game where most players generally go down in seconds once their damage avoidance frames run out, but until they do, there's usually plenty of healing to top up what does manage to go through.

The goal seems to be to reduce the rate at which damage is inflicted across the board, while also reducing the outliers of healing and damage avoidance, making pressure more than simply a matter of drawing out the enemy's cooldowns.

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@Shao.7236 said:

My word is, CC spamming won't be good like it is right now because it does a big fat 0 damage and there is all sorts of ways fights will turn put given the stability on stunbreak with the addtional effects. Cooldowns have been all increased, decision making will be important and this is why Revenant lost that stunbreak, to keep the other classes having a chance against it.

CC Spamming will still be good; All of those skills still have base values for damage, even if they have .01 power damage modifiers on them, meaning they still do damage, even if it's not a lot. Also, CC Spamming was never what killed people, but the fact that it was possible in a lot of scenarios to lock someone down and hit them with a few strong attacks, killing them. Even with large reductions in overall damage output for all classes, CC chaining is absolutely still a viable, strong strategy that will do massive damage to a target if executed properly.

I'm okay with damage reductions across the board, but gutting 50%+ of Rev's ability to stunbreak is going too far. Empty Vessel had an effective CD of 10s, so it did make up about 50% of Rev's stunbreak game, especially on non-Shiro variants that were taking Invocation. Additionally, removing the vast majority of Rev's access to Stability (outside of Jalis) means the class has majorly reduced answers to CC now on a class that was already weak to it if caught at the wrong time or in group fights.

So this moves Revenant's entire gameplay loop across most of its specs towards damage/CC avoidance, rather than having any sort of alternative option. But with increased CDs on UA and Warding Rift, the loss of Precision Strike for kiting, and increased cost/CDs on Riposting Shadows/Gaze of Darkness it seems like Rev is going to have a harder time of accomplishing its only viable strategy (avoidance) now. In light of all the other changes the loss of Empty Vessel is extremely questionable. Rev may end up in a similar defensive position as Necromancer now, but it doesn't have the AoE damage potential that Necro does, so this could potentially leave it in a poor state

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@LucianTheAngelic.7054So you're saying Spellbreaker going from Full counter to Tether pull to Bullscharge to Dagger 3 to GS Whirlwind will be effectively the same? I doubt it, there's less might, there's no damage coming out. It's more like a waste of skills while you wait until the spam is done to stunbreak and finally do something against it. Because the intended actions were to damage you and make you waste stunbreaks while now you can just sit back and wait until you find it right to get out of the CC spam. Also Revenant is given Stability on stunbreak, Annulment is out of the game, Dispelling Force does not trigger if nullified by Stability.

Rangers would CC Spam with Annulment and Gazelle also, there's no damage again now as they waste their control utility for one burst instead of keeping the other CC for later.

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@Shao.7236 said:@"LucianTheAngelic.7054"So you're saying Spellbreaker going from Full counter to Tether pull to Bullscharge to Dagger 3 to GS Whirlwind will be effectively the same? I doubt it, there's less might, there's no damage coming out. It's more like a waste of skills while you wait until the spam is done to stunbreak and finally do something against it. Because the intended actions were to damage you and make you waste stunbreaks while now you can just sit back and wait until you find it right to get out of the CC spam. Also Revenant is given Stability on stunbreak, Annulment is out of the game, Dispelling Force does not trigger if nullified by Stability.

Rangers would CC Spam with Annulment and Gazelle also, there's no damage again now as they waste their control utility for one burst instead of keeping the other CC for later.

Obviously there are some exceptions, but generally CC is not the reason people die (in terms of damage), but set up for your higher damage skills. Also CC is still effective and will be increasingly effective in group fights against Rev. Sure, we get stability on stunbreak, but we have no idea how long or how much (and I'm assuming given other numbers it won't be high), and it's obviously not going to be anywhere near as strong as Empty Vessel or Unwavering Avoidance (which wasn't even very strong to begin with). So it still leaves Revenant in a "avoid all CC or die" type situation. Which given the rest of my previous post is a potential issue

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I think Shao does make a valid point here. Currently, the CC skills are part of the burst - sure, they may not be the meat of the burst, but they're usually at least equivalent to the damage of spending about the same amount of time autoattacking, so you're not losing anything by throwing all the CC you have available into the burst. Instead, you get to combine dealing damage with ensuring that your victim doesn't have the opportunity to mitigate the damage. After the change goes through, between CC skills being turned into CC-only skills and damage coefficients being reduced across the board, the potential to 100-0 someone while also stunlocking them is going to be a lot lower.

Does it compensate for losing what was possibly the most important stunbreak? Hard to say at this point, but I do suspect that CC weakness is going to be less of a problem after the patch than it is now.

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The only truly uncalled for change that will screwup the class is Riposting Shadows to 40 energy. Most of the other nerfs that Rev are getting are mostly fine minus a few of the "reworks" and very justified especially since other classes are getting similar tone downs. It's just the RS change that is not only wrong but also bad for how the class feels as a whole.

A simple way to understand this is to look at Jade winds. Jade winds, completely ignoring its energy cost, is a hilariously overpowered skill. Massive 3s AoE CC that can be made unblockable AND it applies vuln on top of that to make anything that gets caught by it in a teamfight without a stunbreak completely screwed. All on a 5 second cooldown. It's a ridiculous skill. And yet... it hardly ever gets used. In fact, many high ranked games will see a Revenant never touch this skill once for the entire match. This is because at 50 energy right after a swap, using this skill will put the rev at 0 energy right afterwards and thus lose access to most other skills for 1~2 seconds. So 95% of the time you basically gimp yourself by using it . The skill doesn't get used unless the situation is absolutely right or you find yourself with time out of combat. Shiro is already somewhat of a 4 skill legend, and now risks becoming a three skill legend. Feelsbad.

What this means is that 40 energy is an absolutely insane overnerf that will make the skill near unusable in most circumstances, for much the same reason that other skills 40+ energy rarely get used. Rev gets most of its energy management from swaps, not so much from regen since you usually have an upkeep or two, which means that the closer you get to that 50 energy cost the risk becomes exponentially ( NOT linearly ) higher to use that skill since you would be out of energy for anything else.

TL;DR is that the closer the energy cost is to the 50 line means using the skill becomes damn risky due to effectively being a self-silence debuff. In fact, they could buff the endurance gained in riposting shadows from 25 to 50 at the new 40 energy cost, and it would still be an overall nerf. That's how big of a deal 40 energy is.

If the devs really consider RS to be that broken to warrant this kind of extreme nerf, consider leaving it at 30e and removing the instant endurance gain entirely replacing it with 2s of vigor. That would be pretty heavy handed as well, but at least it doesn't completely gimp how Shiro flows.

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@Ordin.8341 said:this is like 4'th class forum I'm checking and one thing I can only say that no one is happy with changes to their classes so if that was the goal then good job devs :)

I'm pretty happy with how the Guardian lands. I'm not a good player but the current season I'm playing a PvE condi bunker Herald which seems to do well in gold (while only using mace, axe and shield) and most of classes seems to have hard time trying to kill me in 1 vs 1 end even 2 vs 1 despite I don't have any access to stability and the build doesn't use Invocation (so no empty vessel). The next season, using a fully fledged Firebrand Tank I guess I would able to camp in control points for hours (specially in larger ones as in Foefire). But that implies that Rev will jump from being too dominant (two Revs x team was excessive, in a landscape in which some classes had no place to go) to being discarded. In HoT I fled from Guardian to Rev due how boring was to tank/support, and now I'll complete the full circle coming back to Guardian (and some other games with better horizon).

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I'd rather they cut the damage of CoR by 50% and leave it at a 4 sec cooldown than what they are proposing. Seriously, this will leave Revs spamming 1 with nothing as filler, since you need to save your PS for bombs.

Damage reductions I can deal with. Negatively changing how the build actually plays I can't. My Rev was originally PvE only, and then they added that stupid wind up to Sword 4, and that ended that toon's life in PvE.

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So on the whole I like this patch across the board. I play a lot of classes and I actually feel pretty good about all of them.

That said, removal of stunbreak on legend swap + increased cost to other stunbreaks + loss of stab access in retribution... I'm happy to give it a go and see how it feels with everything else but I can't help but feel like this is gonna leave rev getting perma CC'd into oblivion.

I'd rather some rev skills were less overloaded and had more reasonable energy costs than having these massively overloaded skills that you can almost never afford to cast because they lock you out of everything else. This is especially bad when said skills are our stunbreaks, a 40 energy stunbreak pretty much says "you can't use any of your utility skills because you won't be able to stunbreak if you do" hence frankly I'd rather see a simple skill that just breaks stun with a reasonable energy cost than have a skill that does 5 different things and costs everything I have.

That's the only real feedback I have on these balance notes, I'm happy to wait and see how it plays out with the actual release though.

More generally I'd like deathstrikes 2nd hit to be more reliable (hit in 360 degree radius maybe?) seeing as it almost never hits and feels bad and like a waste of energy because of it.

Lastly this is hugely optimistic but it'd be lovely if rev skills could be fixed to work the same with action cam and without. With AC on phase traversal and deathstrike don't shadow step towards the target if they're out of range, this is especially annoying with death strike seeing as it still goes on cooldown. Also with AC on you can actually control the direction of riposting shadows when using it as a stunbreak. As far as I know you can't do this with AC off. This is very annoying in stuff like fractals when using your stunbreak launches you of a cliff or something.

Cheers for your efforts and I hope this patch works as well as intended!

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@Virdo.1540 said:

@JayAction.9056 said:Revenant damage nerfs are LOL.

Rev was already the lowest damage class in PVP. This is hard LOL. Like I'm not even mad. Dead just laughing.

They got rid of confusion on rev condi builds, but do they realize condi rev almost completely relies on the confusion proc from the corruption tree to score kills???

The damage and duration of Revenant condis is entirely too low

Power Rev is DEAD.

They even nerfed the burn damage, so like now what is the point of mace #2. At this point the majority of Rev skills are looking like why are they there.

I have not read the entirety of the patch notes but if they did not nerf other classes as severly Revenant will probably be dead after this patch.

Not even whinning but this is 'LOL'

to condi revs, not really. We mainly rely on our multiple stacks of torment that all last for ~20second per skill. while being able to stack them on 1vs1 to almost 40stacks within seconds.

Confusion was always.... meh. It was a nice addition, but nothing important.And mace could actually be a bit stronger in future. Instead of having a strong short-burn we will have lower but waaay longer burns.

power rev..... never been alive. Maybe they can screw every other class so hard that rev looks a bit better

This is incorrect. Both sources of confusion were a great counter to spam classes, especially thief. This was also another condi to add. Thieves and mesmers are going to continue to laugh at your torment.

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@Lonewolf Kai.3682 said:

@JayAction.9056 said:Revenant damage nerfs are LOL.

Rev was already the lowest damage class in PVP. This is hard LOL. Like I'm not even mad. Dead just laughing.

They got rid of confusion on rev condi builds, but do they realize condi rev almost completely relies on the confusion proc from the corruption tree to score kills???

The damage and duration of Revenant condis is entirely too low

Power Rev is DEAD.

They even nerfed the burn damage, so like now what is the point of mace #2. At this point the majority of Rev skills are looking like why are they there.

I have not read the entirety of the patch notes but if they did not nerf other classes as severly Revenant will probably be dead after this patch.

Not even whinning but this is 'LOL'

to condi revs, not really. We mainly rely on our multiple stacks of torment that all last for ~20second per skill. while being able to stack them on 1vs1 to almost 40stacks within seconds.

Confusion was always.... meh. It was a nice addition, but nothing important.And mace could actually be a bit stronger in future. Instead of having a strong short-burn we will have lower but waaay longer burns.

power rev..... never been alive. Maybe they can screw every other class so hard that rev looks a bit better

This is incorrect. Both sources of confusion were a great counter to spam classes, especially thief. This was also another condi to add. Thieves and mesmers are going to continue to laugh at your torment.

but that torment is also our heal source, and there isnt much to laugh with 40stacks of torment on them. Also all the clones helps revs to heal beyond narnia. mesmers are my favourite kills atm, since power-ones doesnt do dmg at all and condi mesmers kill themselve

Also to thieves: if they are good ones, u wont hit them at all ,& every teleport also removes several conditions.So whatever u play, good thieves arent killable

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I will miss the confusion, but being able to chill from 900r will be very powerful. Confusion was a helpful addition, but when fighting a condi Rev in small scale situations, I would just try to kite out the confusion and cleanse/strike after they bust all of their energy on it, so at times it could be easily outplayed. Chill will make it harder for the Rev ro be kited, and the additional torment via Abyssal Chill means the enemy will suffer for even trying to kite. Spammable unblockable chill sounds cancerous tbh. My confusion (heh) is in how the will will work when it says 3 strikes. Will it now be a channel skill? Or does it delay each strike over a short period or time?

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@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

  • Draconic Echo and Incensed Response will both remain too strong in WvW. Both traits should be brought down to the newly desired power level. Draconic Echo should have some WvW-specific split or tradeoff, and Incensed Response should either be removed or have its PvP split moved to WvW as well. Mindless 25 might is the epitome of powercreep and this trait right here is a huge culprit.

I feel the exact same way as well. This trait gives a little too much Might for such little effort. I think slapping on a 3~5sec ICD would be good enough. Players will still get their 25 Might with various Fury gain through traits and skills, but they won't instant stack 25 Might as easily.

  • Aggressive Agility is pretty hype for any build using Mallyx/Staff/Axe/OH-Sword. In general, I like the re-evaluation of Devastation, but I am curious about the numbers balancing of Battle Scars. At the very least, it seems more engaging and thoughtful, which I do appreciate.

I hope Battle Scars would at least be somewhat stronger than the current Assassin's Annihilation in terms of healing and damage.Dance with Death has me very interested in making a sustain based Power Shiro build.

  • I do fear that the Shiro changes will be too heavy-handed. The nerf to Riposting Shadows is huge. My first impression is that this will push players away from Power Herald and move to core Shiro/Jalis w/ Charged Mists in order to supplement the increase in energy costs (especially with Song getting nerfed).

It is.Evidenced with how other classes are being handled for their utilities or defensive cooldowns, they are smashing hard on any cooldown which previously "did too much" for a single button press (Weaver's ToF for example)

It makes me fear for the future of Legends and Energy, if the only stopgap measure the Devs have to nerf anything is to increase Energy Costs by increments until it is impossible to sustain it, resulting in an entire rework, or a total destruction of the Energy system.

  • Healing orbs still exist. Please delete them from this game forever.

Lol.

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Removing Empty Vessel and increase energy cost of Riposting Shadows will pretty much delete power builds from pvp and wvw smallscale. This is what you want from change? At the same time we keep Infuse Light like what it is?

Very big and unnecessary hit for many revenant specs, specially for anything without Glint.

This suggestion just tells us how little game knowledge decisionmakers have. Im really dissapointed, once again.

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