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WVW rangers with the incoming balance patch


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@Yasai.3549 said:

Yea not a single one of them is worth it at this point.

Ehhhh I think Bear Stance could still be used to fulfill Condition clear needs.Griffon may still be usable if people did use them for Superspeed before.

Dolyak stance is still going to be a must pick option, especially with the SotP nerf. It was a crappy skill before and is gonna get even worse.

They nuked the damage off of CC skills and changed up some cooldowns but stab is still going to be absolutely necessary for any kind of group combat

Un-nerfed One Wolf Pack is also going to be more powerful in a game where everyone is squishier

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The nerfs across the board I expected . But theirs one that bothers me. The 333% increased CD on Stoneform seems pretty excessive. When you consider Mist Form , Obsidian Flesh and Elixir S didn't get touched. Granted Mist Form is only 3 seconds and Obsidian Flesh is 4 seconds and Elixir S is 3 seconds , but they prevents the target from taking damage, suffering conditions, or receiving control effects. Invulnerability also stops existing conditions from dealing damage while active. Mist Form also guarantees 66% movement speed .And all have much lower CDs .Understanding that Stone form could be used twice if and only if a person is running Signet of Stone as well , the nerf seems to much. I would expect 180 second cool down to be more reasonable. 300 seconds for Stoneform and 70 seconds for Signet of Stone seems way out of balance with similar skills on other classes.

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@Mokk.2397 said:The nerfs across the board I expected . But theirs one that bothers me. The 333% increased CD on Stoneform seems pretty excessive. When you consider Mist Form , Obsidian Flesh and Elixir S didn't get touched. Granted Mist Form is only 3 seconds and Obsidian Flesh is 4 seconds and Elixir S is 3 seconds , but they prevents the target from taking damage, suffering conditions, or receiving control effects. Invulnerability also stops existing conditions from dealing damage while active. Mist Form also guarantees 66% movement speed .And all have much lower CDs .Understanding that Stone form could be used twice if and only if a person is running Signet of Stone as well , the nerf seems to much. I would expect 180 second cool down to be more reasonable. 300 seconds for Stoneform and 70 seconds for Signet of Stone seems way out of balance with similar skills on other classes.

The skills you listed aren't really that similar. Elixir S, obsidian flesh, and mist form all lock the user out of being able to perform other skills.

A similar skill would be endure pain, which also got a similar treatment.

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@Substance E.4852 said:

Yea not a single one of them is worth it at this point.

Ehhhh I think Bear Stance could still be used to fulfill Condition clear needs.Griffon may still be usable if people did use them for Superspeed before.

Dolyak stance is still going to be a must pick option, especially with the SotP nerf. It was a crappy skill before and is gonna get even worse.

They nuked the damage off of CC skills and changed up some cooldowns but stab is still going to be absolutely necessary for any kind of group combat

Un-nerfed One Wolf Pack is also going to be more powerful in a game where everyone is squishier

But we aren't squishy after patch. Also, I genuinely don't think a utility on that long cooldown is gonna be worth it when you have skills like qz on a 32s cooldown which is half. And considering that moastance is nerfed into the ground , I see no reason to run the stance share trait which is what increases dolyak stance duration to 9s (in wvw), so if you want to run 6s of stab once a minute.... By all means go ahead. I'm pretty sure qz will take it's place.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

Yea not a single one of them is worth it at this point.

Ehhhh I think Bear Stance could still be used to fulfill Condition clear needs.Griffon may still be usable if people did use them for Superspeed before.

If I'm not mistaken it's cooldown is increased to 30s, even tho it's unused....So I'm not really sure. Again like I just stated in a previous reply, running the stance share / duration trait is probably not worth it and thus you're gonna lose 2 seconds of condi cleanse heals on that skill. But maybe it could work.

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@knite.1542 said:

@Mokk.2397 said:The nerfs across the board I expected . But theirs one that bothers me. The 333% increased CD on Stoneform seems pretty excessive. When you consider Mist Form , Obsidian Flesh and Elixir S didn't get touched. Granted Mist Form is only 3 seconds and Obsidian Flesh is 4 seconds and Elixir S is 3 seconds , but they prevents the target from taking damage, suffering conditions, or receiving control effects. Invulnerability also stops existing conditions from dealing damage while active. Mist Form also guarantees 66% movement speed .And all have much lower CDs .Understanding that Stone form could be used twice if and only if a person is running Signet of Stone as well , the nerf seems to much. I would expect 180 second cool down to be more reasonable. 300 seconds for Stoneform and 70 seconds for Signet of Stone seems way out of balance with similar skills on other classes.

The skills you listed aren't really that similar. Elixir S, obsidian flesh, and mist form all lock the user out of being able to perform other skills.

A similar skill would be endure pain, which also got a similar treatment.

They are very similar in what they are purposed for ,Survival . No they are not exactly the same but they do prevent damage for a period of time so a person can either escape or survive a sudden damage spike. So in fact they are very similar.So your telling me that Elixr S Obsidian flesh and Mist form ,which do Far Far more, are not subject to the same nerfs as lesser skills such as Stone form and Endure pain that are purposed for the same general thing?Elixr S ,Obsidian Flesh and Mist Form deserve the same nerfs .

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@Mokk.2397 said:

So your telling me that Elixr S Obsidian flesh and Mist form ,which do Far Far more, are not subject to the same nerfs as lesser skills such as Stone form and Endure pain that are purposed for the same general thing?Elixr S ,Obsidian Flesh and Mist Form deserve the same nerfs .

Yes, that is what I am telling you. Being able to use skills vs not being able to use skills seems like a pretty large difference to me. Either way, I guess we will see what happens.

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@"bigo.9037" said:so if you want to run 6s of stab once a minute.... By all means go ahead. I'm pretty sure qz will take it's place.

Well, ya, because I actually play in zerg combat where pushing through chokes is a thing and people don't provide guardian groups for rangers

No stab = stun locked = death

CoR only got it's cooldown increased to 10s, you're still gonna die if you eat two of them to the face

It also still stacks with protection and makes you immune to soft crowd control which is still very powerful powerful

You can say we're "not as squishy anymore" but you haven't actually played against what the other classes now have and we can't cheese fights with owl like we used to anymore

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@knite.1542 said:

Yes, that is what I am telling you. Being able to use skills vs not being able to use skills seems like a pretty large difference to me. Either way, I guess we will see what happens.

Tbh being immune to dmg but not being immune to CC means your not really going to be using much in the way of skills either if your opponent is decent.

I agree with the sentiment that Elixr S ,Obsidian Flesh and Mist Form deserve the same nerfs.

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@Sandzibar.5134 said:

Tbh being immune to dmg but not being immune to CC means your not really going to be using much in the way of skills either if your opponent is decent.

I agree with the sentiment that Elixr S ,Obsidian Flesh and Mist Form deserve the same nerfs.

Agreed. They should receive the same nerfs. You may not be able to capture a point with Elixer S but you can stomp. Mist form can bypass traps, all cc, and barriers. As mentioned, with stability nerfs and no real nerfs to condi, invulnerability, meaning total immunity to everything is overall superior to damage nullification alone. The increased health slot skills cds are all the more reason to want to bide one's time even if damaging the opponent is not an option. Stone form is not a stun break, has no stability, no immunity to control effects, stuck in immobilization or traps, and susceptible to all condi effects.

Stone Form should have equal if not lower cds from the above, since it is an inferior skill as it relates to wvw and the upcoming patch. I would hope this is the case in the final patch. I have no issue with the current standing, since the other skills have higher cds in wvw. The reason for the 300 is the blanket nerf to all passives. The other skills if I remember correctly, don't have passive traits, since engi's was made a barrier. In other words, I don't find any comparable issue between the skills based on the proposed upcoming patch. The closest comparison to our signet of stone is the warrior's defy/endure pain which received the same nerf on passive.

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I for one can't wait for them to finally put that nail in the Soul Beast coffin so that wvw becomes less enjoyable for many and even less people play it. Losing a second pet will hurt build diversity. A useless wvw class is becoming more useless? Heck yeah! Just now i was battling a support firebrand and some spellbreaker and they couldn't kill me in a camp. Kite around and they do heck all, just wait till guards respawn and that's going to be even more so when everyone becomes even more tanky. What the hell is this game becoming, seriously. Forget small scale battles, zerging is where it's at it seems. I've seen a couple of devs pop up in wvw and none of them were on anything other than scourge, rev or guard. Sorry for sounding overly negative, but when was it the last time you read something related to gw2 and it got you excited? Last time was probably when PoF was announced.We'll see what the "balance" brings, but i'm staying pessimistic. It's the best approach these days, you're either right or pleasantly surprised. An optimist is just disappointed every time.

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@"Deax.1572" said:I for one can't wait for them to finally put that nail in the Soul Beast coffin so that wvw becomes less enjoyable for many and even less people play it. Losing a second pet will hurt build diversity. A useless wvw class is becoming more useless? Heck yeah! Just now i was battling a support firebrand and some spellbreaker and they couldn't kill me in a camp. Kite around and they do heck all, just wait till guards respawn and that's going to be even more so when everyone becomes even more tanky. What the hell is this game becoming, seriously. Forget small scale battles, zerging is where it's at it seems. I've seen a couple of devs pop up in wvw and none of them were on anything other than scourge, rev or guard. Sorry for sounding overly negative, but when was it the last time you read something related to gw2 and it got you excited? Last time was probably when PoF was announced.We'll see what the "balance" brings, but i'm staying pessimistic. It's the best approach these days, you're either right or pleasantly surprised. An optimist is just disappointed every time.

If you think that soulbeast is useless in WvW, you simply haven't got a clue how to play one properly.Melee CC boon strip soulbeast absolutely wrecks people both in 1v1, small scale and in blob fights while being borderline unkillable.People think soulbeast is bad in WvW cause 95% of the people either play pew or boon beast with it. Built and played right it puts many "meta" classes to shame inside zergs. It's a self sufficient monster that chews through people that don't even know what hit them.

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@hobotnicax.7918 said:

@"Deax.1572" said:I for one can't wait for them to finally put that nail in the Soul Beast coffin so that wvw becomes less enjoyable for many and even less people play it. Losing a second pet will hurt build diversity. A useless wvw class is becoming more useless? Heck yeah! Just now i was battling a support firebrand and some spellbreaker and they couldn't kill me in a camp. Kite around and they do heck all, just wait till guards respawn and that's going to be even more so when everyone becomes even more tanky. What the hell is this game becoming, seriously. Forget small scale battles, zerging is where it's at it seems. I've seen a couple of devs pop up in wvw and none of them were on anything other than scourge, rev or guard. Sorry for sounding overly negative, but when was it the last time you read something related to gw2 and it got you excited? Last time was probably when PoF was announced.We'll see what the "balance" brings, but i'm staying pessimistic. It's the best approach these days, you're either right or pleasantly surprised. An optimist is just disappointed every time.

If you think that soulbeast is useless in WvW, you simply haven't got a clue how to play one properly.Melee CC boon strip soulbeast absolutely wrecks people both in 1v1, small scale and in blob fights while being borderline unkillable.People think soulbeast is bad in WvW cause 95% of the people either play pew or boon beast with it. Built and played right it puts many "meta" classes to shame inside zergs. It's a self sufficient monster that chews through people that don't even know what hit them.

Zergs don't want soulbeasts for a reason. I for one always thought Leader of the pack needed to give allies more than 50% of the stance, that would certainly bump up the usefulness of having a soulbeast.Post a build then, let's see it. Or is it a creation of your imagination.

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@"hobotnicax.7918" said:

If you think that soulbeast is useless in WvW, you simply haven't got a clue how to play one properly.Melee CC boon strip soulbeast absolutely wrecks people both in 1v1, small scale and in blob fights while being borderline unkillable.People think soulbeast is bad in WvW cause 95% of the people either play pew or boon beast with it. Built and played right it puts many "meta" classes to shame inside zergs. It's a self sufficient monster that chews through people that don't even know what hit them.

If you have no place in Zergs, in WvW you are useless.Nobody thinks Ranger is weak just isn't designed for large-scale combat.Duel 1v1 are irrelevant to the game mode.

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@hobotnicax.7918 said:

@Deax.1572 said:I for one can't wait for them to finally put that nail in the Soul Beast coffin so that wvw becomes less enjoyable for many and even less people play it. Losing a second pet will hurt build diversity. A useless wvw class is becoming more useless? Heck yeah! Just now i was battling a support firebrand and some spellbreaker and they couldn't kill me in a camp. Kite around and they do heck all, just wait till guards respawn and that's going to be even more so when everyone becomes even more tanky. What the hell is this game becoming, seriously. Forget small scale battles, zerging is where it's at it seems. I've seen a couple of devs pop up in wvw and none of them were on anything other than scourge, rev or guard. Sorry for sounding overly negative, but when was it the last time you read something related to gw2 and it got you excited? Last time was probably when PoF was announced.We'll see what the "balance" brings, but i'm staying pessimistic. It's the best approach these days, you're either right or pleasantly surprised. An optimist is just disappointed every time.

If you think that soulbeast is useless in WvW, you simply haven't got a clue how to play one properly.Melee CC boon strip soulbeast absolutely wrecks people both in 1v1, small scale and in blob fights while being borderline unkillable.People think soulbeast is bad in WvW cause 95% of the people either play pew or boon beast with it. Built and played right it puts many "meta" classes to shame inside zergs. It's a self sufficient monster that chews through people that don't even know what hit them.

It's pretty much impossible to build ranger for high damage that "chews through people" and for survivability in a group setting

The only place this works is small scale or 1v1 where our single target skills, active evades, and boon spam shine. Single target damage is worthless in a zerg, evades are only good for re positioning in long confrontations, and boonbeast stops existing when rip/corrupts are flying at you from 12 different scourges

@Deax.1572 said:Zergs don't want soulbeasts for a reason. I for one always thought Leader of the pack needed to give allies more than 50% of the stance, that would certainly bump up the usefulness of having a soulbeast.

LotP needs to give at least base duration to allies and WK needs to extend the condition removal bonus to allies as well

It's the only way we'll be even remotely appealing without major overhauls to our weapon skills or how druid works

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@Substance E.4852 said:

@Deax.1572 said:I for one can't wait for them to finally put that nail in the Soul Beast coffin so that wvw becomes less enjoyable for many and even less people play it. Losing a second pet will hurt build diversity. A useless wvw class is becoming more useless? Heck yeah! Just now i was battling a support firebrand and some spellbreaker and they couldn't kill me in a camp. Kite around and they do heck all, just wait till guards respawn and that's going to be even more so when everyone becomes even more tanky. What the hell is this game becoming, seriously. Forget small scale battles, zerging is where it's at it seems. I've seen a couple of devs pop up in wvw and none of them were on anything other than scourge, rev or guard. Sorry for sounding overly negative, but when was it the last time you read something related to gw2 and it got you excited? Last time was probably when PoF was announced.We'll see what the "balance" brings, but i'm staying pessimistic. It's the best approach these days, you're either right or pleasantly surprised. An optimist is just disappointed every time.

If you think that soulbeast is useless in WvW, you simply haven't got a clue how to play one properly.Melee CC boon strip soulbeast absolutely wrecks people both in 1v1, small scale and in blob fights while being borderline unkillable.People think soulbeast is bad in WvW cause 95% of the people either play pew or boon beast with it. Built and played right it puts many "meta" classes to shame inside zergs. It's a self sufficient monster that chews through people that don't even know what hit them.

It's pretty much impossible to build ranger for high damage that "chews through people" and for survivability in a group setting

The only place this works is small scale or 1v1 where our single target skills, active evades, and boon spam shine. Single target damage is worthless in a zerg, evades are only good for re positioning in long confrontations, and boonbeast stops existing when rip/corrupts are flying at you from 12 different scourges

@Deax.1572 said:Zergs don't want soulbeasts for a reason. I for one always thought Leader of the pack needed to give allies more than 50% of the stance, that would certainly bump up the usefulness of having a soulbeast.

LotP needs to give at least base duration to allies and WK needs to extend the condition removal bonus to allies as well

It's the only way we'll be even remotely appealing without major overhauls to our weapon skills or how druid works

You're not playing it right then, sorry.

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First of all ranger is my main, my favorite class, and the one I will continue playing the most even after the half-neutered beast we will be getting after the patch. This said, the wvw zerg in general and in it's most efficient form does not want my profession. I have accepted this and have tried all manner of builds to change this belief for them and myself, but it currently hasn't changed nor will it change with the upcoming patch.

There are 3 aspects to the zerg; damage, damage mitigation, and healing. For the inclusion of the group, the serious tags want a balance of these ingredients. You've got the warrior, scourge and revenant that can consistently and spammably dish out high damage with boon strip and/or corruption on warrior and scourge. The warrior, firebrand/guard, med kit scrapper, and revenant grouped together grant bubbles, reflects, barriers, and consistent boons including stability. Scrapper, firebrand give great group healing and condi-removal. Most of these classes can do more than one of three quite well. It's the tired argument of ranger can do some of that, but other classes do it way better.

Ranger has horrible Aoe ability. We have traps, 2 target ricochet (reflected), lead the wind piercing (reflected), and barrage (reduced cd as of late, but hardly spammable). Stances had potential as a role for boons and buffs but given cds and durations, they are outperformed as well. Druid is just broken for healing and buffs in wvw, but in raids it's alright. Our spirits are stationary and killed easily, our heals are gated behind the CA format and nerfed at every turn (at least they kept 10 sec/cd for wvw vs pvp treatment).

I'm not trying to stifle anyone's dreams of becoming a space cadet, but that is just how the wvw zerg scene is and probably will be even after patch. Wvw is still my favorite game mode despite all this. I love roaming solo or in small groups and sometimes scouting for the zerg. I've taken towers, hundreds of camps and land claims, and on rare occasions (off hours) some keeps. If I'm feeling a little devilish I play the snipe role and pick off stragglers trying to make it back to the zerg with their group builds. These are the things ranger is good at in wvw imo, and what I enjoy doing there.

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@hobotnicax.7918 said:

@"Deax.1572" said:I for one can't wait for them to finally put that nail in the Soul Beast coffin so that wvw becomes less enjoyable for many and even less people play it. Losing a second pet will hurt build diversity. A useless wvw class is becoming more useless? Heck yeah! Just now i was battling a support firebrand and some spellbreaker and they couldn't kill me in a camp. Kite around and they do heck all, just wait till guards respawn and that's going to be even more so when everyone becomes even more tanky. What the hell is this game becoming, seriously. Forget small scale battles, zerging is where it's at it seems. I've seen a couple of devs pop up in wvw and none of them were on anything other than scourge, rev or guard. Sorry for sounding overly negative, but when was it the last time you read something related to gw2 and it got you excited? Last time was probably when PoF was announced.We'll see what the "balance" brings, but i'm staying pessimistic. It's the best approach these days, you're either right or pleasantly surprised. An optimist is just disappointed every time.

If you think that soulbeast is useless in WvW, you simply haven't got a clue how to play one properly.Melee CC boon strip soulbeast absolutely wrecks people both in 1v1, small scale and in blob fights while being borderline unkillable.People think soulbeast is bad in WvW cause 95% of the people either play pew or boon beast with it. Built and played right it puts many "meta" classes to shame inside zergs. It's a self sufficient monster that chews through people that don't even know what hit them.

It's pretty much impossible to build ranger for high damage that "chews through people" and for survivability in a group setting

The only place this works is small scale or 1v1 where our single target skills, active evades, and boon spam shine. Single target damage is worthless in a zerg, evades are only good for re positioning in long confrontations, and boonbeast stops existing when rip/corrupts are flying at you from 12 different scourges

@"Deax.1572" said:Zergs don't want soulbeasts for a reason. I for one always thought Leader of the pack needed to give allies more than 50% of the stance, that would certainly bump up the usefulness of having a soulbeast.

LotP needs to give at least base duration to allies and WK needs to extend the condition removal bonus to allies as well

It's the only way we'll be even remotely appealing without major overhauls to our weapon skills or how druid works

You're not playing it right then, sorry.

You haven't addressed any points made by anyone. "you're not playing it right" is a half arsed excuse about as useful as saying fish are better swimmers.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/Use this site, post your build and the reasons for why you went this way and how you achieve your so called "putting the meta to shame" results.Can you do that? No, of course not.Well then you're full of poopy, sorry.

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@Deax.1572 said:

@Deax.1572 said:I for one can't wait for them to finally put that nail in the Soul Beast coffin so that wvw becomes less enjoyable for many and even less people play it. Losing a second pet will hurt build diversity. A useless wvw class is becoming more useless? Heck yeah! Just now i was battling a support firebrand and some spellbreaker and they couldn't kill me in a camp. Kite around and they do heck all, just wait till guards respawn and that's going to be even more so when everyone becomes even more tanky. What the hell is this game becoming, seriously. Forget small scale battles, zerging is where it's at it seems. I've seen a couple of devs pop up in wvw and none of them were on anything other than scourge, rev or guard. Sorry for sounding overly negative, but when was it the last time you read something related to gw2 and it got you excited? Last time was probably when PoF was announced.We'll see what the "balance" brings, but i'm staying pessimistic. It's the best approach these days, you're either right or pleasantly surprised. An optimist is just disappointed every time.

If you think that soulbeast is useless in WvW, you simply haven't got a clue how to play one properly.Melee CC boon strip soulbeast absolutely wrecks people both in 1v1, small scale and in blob fights while being borderline unkillable.People think soulbeast is bad in WvW cause 95% of the people either play pew or boon beast with it. Built and played right it puts many "meta" classes to shame inside zergs. It's a self sufficient monster that chews through people that don't even know what hit them.

It's pretty much impossible to build ranger for high damage that "chews through people" and for survivability in a group setting

The only place this works is small scale or 1v1 where our single target skills, active evades, and boon spam shine. Single target damage is worthless in a zerg, evades are only good for re positioning in long confrontations, and boonbeast stops existing when rip/corrupts are flying at you from 12 different scourges

@Deax.1572 said:Zergs don't want soulbeasts for a reason. I for one always thought Leader of the pack needed to give allies more than 50% of the stance, that would certainly bump up the usefulness of having a soulbeast.

LotP needs to give at least base duration to allies and WK needs to extend the condition removal bonus to allies as well

It's the only way we'll be even remotely appealing without major overhauls to our weapon skills or how druid works

You're not playing it right then, sorry.

You haven't addressed any points made by anyone. "you're not playing it right" is a half kitten excuse about as useful as saying fish are better swimmers.

Use this site, post your build and the reasons for why you went this way and how you achieve your so called "putting the meta to shame" results.Can you do that? No, of course not.Well then you're full of poopy, sorry.

I don't have to address any "points" made here because these people are making conclusions that are the result of not playing the class correctly.For instance: "the only place this works is small scale or 1v1..." - a statement far from reality.

Here you go, enjoy it.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAceFlRwCZPMNGKeSX/PzTE5jWB-zVZYVhUDDMUFxoDdeKNJE6UEEhEobFgGnFVPjA-w

Now all you have to do is... play it right.

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You guys are lucky, you have players left and look how much you are going back and forth discussing potential implications. It's intense.

Mesmer is dead land, abandoned long ago and there is almost no diversity. You have some seriously overtuned things on ranger also btw, expect more nerfs over time. One of your abilties can hit for over 40k from one use no special setup, currently your longbow 2 can kill 80% of my full tank geared in 1 ability on a 10s cooldown from 1500 range.

You have a ton of insane things many places, things i am not used to expect to last as a mesmer we don't get a shadow of that. Be happy nerfs were not more severe. Luckily for you, thief is probably next in line and after enough whining has accumulted after patch, they will get some nerfs to their core functionality to restrain their abundant overpowers.

Anyways i will level up a ranger to play alongside my mesmer and firebrand, i think it looks good on patch for what i want. Been wanting to play a long ranged sniper for a long time, zerk/valk gear core ranger and speed runes for zoom vrooming.

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Personally happy that this soulbeast trash is getting nerfed. Coming back from like a 2 year hiatus and it just wipes the floor with all the stuff I remember pre expansion. Like what happened, Druid was pretty good and now you will probably get deleted unless you’re running some condi bunker spec, although I would assume soulbeast can probably do that better as well

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These posts above me, these 'you can't play with me, playground mentally' are the EXACT posts Arena net should be aiming to avoid. NO CLASS should be excluded from any thing in a game and if for some reason they are then it should be addressed.Was it addressed?No it bloody wasn't.Please continue with your continued nonsense : just don't complain when your precious WvW is even more dead.

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