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@Babytater.6803 said:Q: With the largest balance patch ever coming out the next few weeks, I wanted to see what the WvW forum community had to think about the meta. Do you think it will change significantly? If so, how do you see zerg composition/classes changing?

Thank you for your thoughts and have a great day!

meta hasn't changed since 2012. just stack on x and y servers. when you lose, ask for a gvg. when no one accepts or can agree to the rules. declare yourself the champion.

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Toxic Recycle Meta is the correct name for it

'So, I decided to take a look at condi deadeye.And oh my lord, why is this even a thing? All gear is level 80 exotics.This build is so hilariously disgusting I can only advise every not to play it, because wow.'

'Really nobody should be playing this, it's unacceptably [Toxic]'

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I expect there to be a lot of answers to this, and it would be hard to pin anything definitive, but here are some things I feel comfortable saying.

  1. More than one FB in a party will be very ineffective.
  2. Stacking scourges will not work nearly as well as people think.
  3. Condi will be garbage barring maybe some initial sweeps against people who don't know how to prepare for change.
  4. Power spike will still be necessary.
  5. One pushing isn't going to happen barring extreme outnumbered scenarios or one group being total trash.
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@Babytater.6803 said:Thank you all for your responses! Even the memes lol

Interesting ideas... seems like you guys don't think the meta will be shaken very much with all the power nerfs.

So. I feel like that is the wrong way to look at it. Anets goal with this patch isn't really to 'shake up' the meta so to speak. At least when discussing classes. Their purpose is to shake up how fights feel and play out. The general consensus for quite a while is that fights are to short, very 'blasty', and determined quickly. This leads to what people call the 'pirateship' even though at this juncture the fights (in NA at least) don't really fit the classic definition of such. The group that gets the good hit off first wins. People want to change it so a simple mistake isn't the end for a group. This makes it more friendly for commanders who are learning, and makes fights in general feel more class inclusive because when fights take longer other forms of utility besides 'big blast' and 'big heal' have a chance to shine.

If you were to ask me if I expect there to be a drastic shift in your typical party comps, I'd say no. You still need a FB for stab, you will still need a secondary healer to cover for the gaps in the FB heals, you will still need some additional form of offensive boon support/spike, some form of strip to remove the enemies boons, and then the ability to zone an area with damage to cleave downs and the enemy tail. A mass reduction in all forms is unlikely to change that, though I'd be willing to bet with the big patch people will try out some of the fringe classes that were almost peeking their head out after the recent scourge nerfs. What I DO expect to happen is how fights play out will be handled differently, and how groups overall approach comping (at least non pug groups) may see a shift. If there is more time to fight because 10+ people no longer instantly die on a spike, pick teams have a chance to shine. Likewise with the overall reduction in damage people may try to stuff more damage into a party, but that leaves you vulnerable to melee. Now a form of rock paper scissors opens up with ranged > pick > melee > ranged.

The giant potential wrench ANET may have to deal with is that if fights take to much longer than they do right now, we will quickly get to a point where fights simply do not end because warclaws drastically reduced the time it takes to get back to a fight. We survived waypoints every 3 minutes so I'm not entirely convinced that's a terrible thing, but it is something they'll need to watch carefully.

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@God.2708 You are right that Anet's goal isn't to shake up the meta but instead to bring everything back in line. However, as a side effect, this patch is going to shake things up. My general idea of a part and its support and damage will remain the same but my question is more in line with each classes role. The nerfs across the board will challenge the main meta classes in their respective roles and I think we will see roles taken by different classes. Who knows though!Zerg playstyle as you said will be pretty different. I really expect a lot of new classes/roles being tried out and affecting how zergs move, use boons, use conditions, use fields/auras, and time their skills out. It's an exciting time!

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FB is still must have.

Rev still gives boons to 10 targets.

Support warrior with bubble still very good.

Scourge still does its job.

Scrapper still has stealth gyro.

I could see tempest seeing more play because it still has 10 target auras.

Staff Thief still has insane 5 target dmg on vault.

What will change the most are the stats people run.

FBs will likely use more condition dmg for example.

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@"Burnfall.9573" said:Toxic Recycle Meta is the correct name for it

'So, I decided to take a look at condi deadeye.And oh my lord, why is this even a thing? All gear is level 80 exotics.This build is so hilariously disgusting I can only advise every not to play it, because wow.'

'Really nobody should be playing this, it's unacceptably [Toxic]'

How is this built?

This is what I run when im bored:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PahAQVlFwUYbsDmJO2OrvSA-z1IU8oi/cQFnjIIThQHSgQUACLQF2HHV3A-w

Your toon is set up differently so im intrigued.

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@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Toxic Recycle Meta is the correct name for it

'So, I decided to take a look at condi deadeye.And oh my lord, why is this even a thing? All gear is level 80 exotics.This build is so hilariously disgusting I can only advise every not to play it, because wow.'

'Really nobody should be playing this, it's unacceptably [Toxic]'

How is this built?

This is what I run when im bored:

Your toon is set up differently so im intrigued.

It isn’t Burns toon. Stabitha has a page where they state it’s Dire and Rabid, thorn runes, and the channel has no other info as per their reply ‘it’s too cancer’

Anything thief is deletable per burn.

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@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@"Burnfall.9573" said:Toxic Recycle Meta is the correct name for it

'So, I decided to take a look at condi deadeye.And oh my lord, why is this even a thing? All gear is level 80 exotics.This build is so hilariously disgusting I can only advise every not to play it, because wow.'

'Really nobody should be playing this, it's unacceptably [Toxic]'

How is this built?

This is what I run when im bored:

Your toon is set up differently so im intrigued.

It isn’t Burns toon. Stabitha has a page where they state it’s Dire and Rabid, thorn runes, and the channel has no other info as per their reply ‘it’s too cancer’

Anything thief is deletable per burn.

Dang, mine is cancer (saw someone use it vs me and I got rekt so I wanted to learn how to counter), however the one in the vid seems stronger. Ill have to do come research now

Edit: Theres 1 aspect of their build I am unsure of, however i believe ive gotten the rest down

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@"Burnfall.9573" said:Toxic Recycle Meta is the correct name for it[Video]

'So, I decided to take a look at condi deadeye.And oh my lord, why is this even a thing? All gear is level 80 exotics.This build is so hilariously disgusting I can only advise every not to play it, because wow.'

'Really nobody should be playing this, it's unacceptably [Toxic]'

OH SHIT WHATTDA WEW DO. Oh I'll just get a Rev and spam Pain Absorption till the gods come home, the dragons are defeated, and the servers shut down.

Seriously give me those condi stacks cause seriously I'll stand in those poison AoEs. Cause the next time I see you Phase Traversal Permeating Pestilence I'll probably just give them right back. Getton back to power weapons where thieves BELONG./edge

Sarcasm of course you're just bring boon rips or wait till I swap out of demon.


No but seriously if we're talking about Revs and the Meta. Rev stability might become more commonly used if Guardian uptime really gets gutted like they probably want it to be. The increase in range from 600 to 900 has been a big boon (ha) to the skill both in terms of damage and usability because if you look at the upcoming notes Dwarf practically avoided nerfs completely.

Jalis

Forced Engagement: Reduced power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.01

Yep that's it. I can also point out that True Nature - Dwarf (F2 Herald w/ Dwarf ) applies 2 (3 traited) stacks of stability. Revs might be running Diviners instead of Berserker's soon enough... (That's not even getting into Increasing boon uptime to counteract the patch, Demon resistance spam share (Maybe base rev even?), Combo-ing well with Renagade for Alacrity to recover skills due to increased CDs. Tons and tons of reasons for Rev still after the patch.)

Rev is not going ANYWHERE. PERIOD. (Condi or Power Damage is still up in the air. Gotta see how the new Sword 2 vs Nerfed Mace works out.)

Next Meta: Rev/Her/Ren/Scr/Scr

Might have gone overboard with the revs and scrappers but those are the ones to watch right now for me.

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I don't think the composition will change much. I also doubt that the used stats will change much.Perhaps guards go less towards concentration and more healers try cleric instead of minstrel...

We noticed that the number of conditions increased, but at the moment, incoming damage is 80% power damage. The main problem for years was always movement impeding conditions, not damaging ones. Since the cleanse amount is mostly untouched by the patch, the relative amount of condi-dmg goes up, but the absolute stays the same. Especially with the shift from stacks to duration on many skills, there will be little trouble.A group with power-scrappers, dmg-spellbreaker, and tempest-supporter will have little trouble against condi builds.

Regarding Build-Changes, I only know in detail about engineers, but heal- and power-scrappers are mostly untouched (except explosive line).

The largest impact might actually come from the details.Big-hit skills with CC that were nerfed from 3.0 to 0.01 coefficient (e.g. prime-light-beam).Other strong skills that are not listed and unchanged (like shredder-gyro or bomb-1).In my opinion, these details will have the largest impact on composition and equipment.

That being said, I think this patch is actually great and will lead to more build diversity, especially at roaming, but also for zergs.

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