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Core Necro Post Patch Will Have Broken Sustain - Told You


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Core necro does not have one single source of stability and lost its shroud entering stunbreak.

The meta build is left with no mobility, two dodges and one stunbreak (which got a cooldown nerf).

If anything becomes meta then "Let's kick that core necro punching bag around".

It will be worse than in the rifle cc engineer meta 6 or 7 years ago.

Now at least that core can enjoy the pummeling for a higher duration.

Side note: a ranger main that can simply push the necro off the node with longbow complaining here caused a good laugh!

Side note 2: balancing goal for anet: "necro, a stability lacking resilent profession" - 100% achieved!

Side note 3: signet of vampirism is not bugged when traited. It is recharged after 14 seconds in shroud, when you enter shroud right after casting it. Math: 30s cooldown - 14s - 14x4% = 56% = 16s ... 14 + 16 = 30.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:^ Title

  • Negative 33% damage game wide
  • Hard CCs going to 0 damage output
  • Quickness access/uptime being massively reduced, leading into far less DPS potential upon even the above nerfs
  • Healing game wide -33%
  • Core Necro Shroud mechanics untouched

If you thought Core Necro was tanky now, put your seatbelt on and prepare yourselves for nearly invulnerable Fear Decapping Core Necro Bunkers.

If this is not addressed before the patch drops, we'll see QQ in the forums on this topic, like an avalanche coming down a mountain.

I honestly don't think you need to worry. While necro may become tankier than it is now (which that isn't very tanky in the current meta with teams that know what to do), it wont become a cancer bunker like some of the bunkers in previous meta. It doesn't have stability or heavy team support. No vigor access/spam dodge ability.

You also have to keep in mind that necro is taking some nerfs too. Doom (core shroud fear) is getting a cast time. If you miss that, its a huge amount of LF loss which helps tank in shroud. Necro boon rip and damage Is also getting hit. So even if core is tankier, how impactful will the build be in a team comp?

Long story short, I would wait to see how the patch plays as a whole before asking for nerfs. If it needs to be tuned a little bit, so be it. I just don't see it being a problem like you think it will be.

Experience: I've played necro on and off at the highest level of pvp since closed beta.

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Do you not pay attention when you are against good Core Necros? You can bottom out a LF bar and then 9s later the Necro pops shroud at 100% again.

what lol? build plsSimple

@"Chaith.8256" said:Core necro shroud functionality was nerfed. They put a cast time and 660ms reaction on Doom. That's 100% a functionality nerf.

Life Blast and Life Transfer got the blanket coefficient nerfs, however I wouldn't be against Tainted Shackles and Dark Path receiving the same treatment as every other skill, then I think everything would be fine.

I mean the LF total pool in conjunction with how much LF they can generate in very short durations of time. That stuff is directly tied to the idea of "sustain factor" just as much as healing stat is.

Can you elaborate on "Life force generated in a short amount of time?"How much is too much in a short amount of time and what amount of time to you qualifies as a short amount of time?

I dont agree on the healing stat part though sorry.

Do you not pay attention when you are against good Core Necros? You can bottom out a LF bar and then 9s later the Necro pops shroud at 100% again. there literally isn't anything that could qualify as "faster or in a shorter amount of time" than that.

I guess the problem that I was trying to point out in this thread is that the LF % gains that Necros get for generation, are completely separate from the actual damage they deal. So even if a Necro attack deals barely any damage at all, if the tooltip says "This skill grants 15% LF" it will refill that LF bar by 15% of its total, when that low damage attack is used. <- This is insane to allow to stay this way in an upcoming patch that is supposed to address overbuffed sustain tools game wide. The LF bar is health. I see people posting in here who seem to be wanting to work around that fact, but the LF is a health bar, and it is able to be regenerated to full in 9s over and over again. <- And this is something that is STRONGER while wearing things like Carrion/Rune of Speed, that grant a ton of vitality. Heal stat isn't advantageous for Core Necro, Vitality it is.

Guys, this is already tanky in 1v1s NOW with very high DPS. When the DPS literally "drops through the floor to half of what it is now" it will be impossible to kill a good Necro 1v1. Even if you can do it over the course of time, it won't be worth the time wasted during a conquest match. And INB4 this "but CCs but CCs" that's the most hopeful apathetic thing I've heard in a very long time in this forum. What good is CC training a friggin 28k health death shroud with protection & carapace stacks on it, when you aren't dealing damage while doing it? At that point the Necro doesn't NEED stability because even if he gets Bull's Charged for 0 damage, he'll only eat 1 follow up attack and then be on his feet to move again. By the 1 or 2 people are actually able to deal enough damage to a 28k protection/carapace Death Shroud to bottom it out, or by the time they wait it out, it will have been long enough to where all of those Shroud regeneration skills are ALL off CD again. It's going to be a situation where if a player or players cannot kill the Necro during his 9s vulnerability phase in between Shroud cycles, welp gg. Because that's going to be the only kill opportunity you'll get on it at all. Trying to pummel at & bottom out the Death Shroud is going to become a great way to find yourself losing to attrition.

And I love this "But it doesn't have stability" as if it didn't have triple stun break utility bar, an elite that grants it stability, and a bunch of boon rips to remove opponent stability & convert it into Fear, in conjunction with a roster of heavy AoE Fear CC that keeps people away from it to begin with.

I'm just saying, it might not be able beat you up and kill you real easily, but you won't be able to get a Core Necro off a node 1v1 after this patch. You'd need something built for it like a Decap Engi abusing the hell out of Throw Land Mine or a Ventari Rev. I'm telling you, this Core Necro side node will drive the meta in the same way Fire Weaver drove meta. People will have to resort to other methods outside of DPS to be able to deal with impending Core Necro Side Node. That or ignore it and only ever engage it if 2v1.

Maybe a good idea to lower the LF regen from these skills in a pvp/wvw split, or reduce the total LF health bar in pvp/wvw on Core Necro. Mind you I am only speaking of Core Necro. I feel that Reaper/Scourge will find a good balance point post patch. Core Necro Shroud's fuel tank is just way way way to deep at this point though, and it's going to show post patch.

This is true example if u take signet traited u can 1.) get full shroud super fast 2.) regenerate shroud faster than u lose it(like what) 3.) u have an instant Rez that btw is bugged so that after 5 secs in shroud it comes back fully recharged. Necro is starting to look nutty with all the reworks and patches

Signet and possibly some attacks that generate lf can get you full shroud in about 9 secs.

Just to point out the most LF you will get from the signet in 9s is 24%. This still leaves over 3/4 of your of to gain other ways.

Also even with the desired signet LF degen is always a met negative. Drops to average 1% on core and 3% on reaper.

Also how is the signet bugged? It causes ever signet to recharge in 13~20s.

I mean its design is to win through attrition and it will actually be able to fill its niche.

Dude it’s well known bug for cd reduction on signet due to the fact they kept the old cd for reduction with a new lower duration and I think ur also underestimating signet when it’s traited

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@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Do you not pay attention when you are against good Core Necros? You can bottom out a LF bar and then 9s later the Necro pops shroud at 100% again.

what lol? build plsSimple

@"Chaith.8256" said:Core necro shroud functionality was nerfed. They put a cast time and 660ms reaction on Doom. That's 100% a functionality nerf.

Life Blast and Life Transfer got the blanket coefficient nerfs, however I wouldn't be against Tainted Shackles and Dark Path receiving the same treatment as every other skill, then I think everything would be fine.

I mean the LF total pool in conjunction with how much LF they can generate in very short durations of time. That stuff is directly tied to the idea of "sustain factor" just as much as healing stat is.

Can you elaborate on "Life force generated in a short amount of time?"How much is too much in a short amount of time and what amount of time to you qualifies as a short amount of time?

I dont agree on the healing stat part though sorry.

Do you not pay attention when you are against good Core Necros? You can bottom out a LF bar and then 9s later the Necro pops shroud at 100% again. there literally isn't anything that could qualify as "faster or in a shorter amount of time" than that.

I guess the problem that I was trying to point out in this thread is that the LF % gains that Necros get for generation, are completely separate from the actual damage they deal. So even if a Necro attack deals barely any damage at all, if the tooltip says "This skill grants 15% LF" it will refill that LF bar by 15% of its total, when that low damage attack is used. <- This is insane to allow to stay this way in an upcoming patch that is supposed to address overbuffed sustain tools game wide. The LF bar is health. I see people posting in here who seem to be wanting to work around that fact, but the LF is a health bar, and it is able to be regenerated to full in 9s over and over again. <- And this is something that is STRONGER while wearing things like Carrion/Rune of Speed, that grant a ton of vitality. Heal stat isn't advantageous for Core Necro, Vitality it is.

Guys, this is already tanky in 1v1s NOW with very high DPS. When the DPS literally "drops through the floor to half of what it is now" it will be impossible to kill a good Necro 1v1. Even if you can do it over the course of time, it won't be worth the time wasted during a conquest match. And INB4 this "but CCs but CCs" that's the most hopeful apathetic thing I've heard in a very long time in this forum. What good is CC training a friggin 28k health death shroud with protection & carapace stacks on it, when you aren't dealing damage while doing it? At that point the Necro doesn't NEED stability because even if he gets Bull's Charged for 0 damage, he'll only eat 1 follow up attack and then be on his feet to move again. By the 1 or 2 people are actually able to deal enough damage to a 28k protection/carapace Death Shroud to bottom it out, or by the time they wait it out, it will have been long enough to where all of those Shroud regeneration skills are ALL off CD again. It's going to be a situation where if a player or players cannot kill the Necro during his 9s vulnerability phase in between Shroud cycles, welp gg. Because that's going to be the only kill opportunity you'll get on it at all. Trying to pummel at & bottom out the Death Shroud is going to become a great way to find yourself losing to attrition.

And I love this "But it doesn't have stability" as if it didn't have triple stun break utility bar, an elite that grants it stability, and a bunch of boon rips to remove opponent stability & convert it into Fear, in conjunction with a roster of heavy AoE Fear CC that keeps people away from it to begin with.

I'm just saying, it might not be able beat you up and kill you real easily, but you won't be able to get a Core Necro off a node 1v1 after this patch. You'd need something built for it like a Decap Engi abusing the hell out of Throw Land Mine or a Ventari Rev. I'm telling you, this Core Necro side node will drive the meta in the same way Fire Weaver drove meta. People will have to resort to other methods outside of DPS to be able to deal with impending Core Necro Side Node. That or ignore it and only ever engage it if 2v1.

Maybe a good idea to lower the LF regen from these skills in a pvp/wvw split, or reduce the total LF health bar in pvp/wvw on Core Necro. Mind you I am only speaking of Core Necro. I feel that Reaper/Scourge will find a good balance point post patch. Core Necro Shroud's fuel tank is just way way way to deep at this point though, and it's going to show post patch.

This is true example if u take signet traited u can 1.) get full shroud super fast 2.) regenerate shroud faster than u lose it(like what) 3.) u have an instant Rez that btw is bugged so that after 5 secs in shroud it comes back fully recharged. Necro is starting to look nutty with all the reworks and patches

Signet and possibly some attacks that generate lf can get you full shroud in about 9 secs.

Just to point out the most LF you will get from the signet in 9s is 24%. This still leaves over 3/4 of your of to gain other ways.

Also even with the desired signet LF degen is always a met negative. Drops to average 1% on core and 3% on reaper.

Also how is the signet bugged? It causes ever signet to recharge in 13~20s.

I mean its design is to win through attrition and it will actually be able to fill its niche.

Dude it’s well known bug for cd reduction on signet due to the fact they kept the old cd for reduction with a new lower duration and I think ur also underestimating signet when it’s traitedI can not reproduce that bug. The 30s cooldown signets recharge in ~14s, the 60s signet in ~17s and the 75s signet in ~19s.

And keep in mind that the signets add sustain only in terms of damage soaking capability for the use of one gm trait, the heal and a utility slot. That's a lot of effort for the benefit. A signet build is low on utility and a sitting duck when focused.

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@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:^ Title

  • Negative 33% damage game wide
  • Hard CCs going to 0 damage output
  • Quickness access/uptime being massively reduced, leading into far less DPS potential upon even the above nerfs
  • Healing game wide -33%
  • Core Necro Shroud mechanics untouched

If you thought Core Necro was tanky now, put your seatbelt on and prepare yourselves for nearly invulnerable Fear Decapping Core Necro Bunkers.

If this is not addressed before the patch drops, we'll see QQ in the forums on this topic, like an avalanche coming down a mountain.

In other word; Necromancer Profession deserves to be incapable, defenseless, alone

3jH3Ig7.jpg

we were never good enough, never was...being everyone's punching bag....end up hurting all over again

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Do you not pay attention when you are against good Core Necros? You can bottom out a LF bar and then 9s later the Necro pops shroud at 100% again.

what lol? build plsSimple

@"Chaith.8256" said:Core necro shroud functionality was nerfed. They put a cast time and 660ms reaction on Doom. That's 100% a functionality nerf.

Life Blast and Life Transfer got the blanket coefficient nerfs, however I wouldn't be against Tainted Shackles and Dark Path receiving the same treatment as every other skill, then I think everything would be fine.

I mean the LF total pool in conjunction with how much LF they can generate in very short durations of time. That stuff is directly tied to the idea of "sustain factor" just as much as healing stat is.

Can you elaborate on "Life force generated in a short amount of time?"How much is too much in a short amount of time and what amount of time to you qualifies as a short amount of time?

I dont agree on the healing stat part though sorry.

Do you not pay attention when you are against good Core Necros? You can bottom out a LF bar and then 9s later the Necro pops shroud at 100% again. there literally isn't anything that could qualify as "faster or in a shorter amount of time" than that.

I guess the problem that I was trying to point out in this thread is that the LF % gains that Necros get for generation, are completely separate from the actual damage they deal. So even if a Necro attack deals barely any damage at all, if the tooltip says "This skill grants 15% LF" it will refill that LF bar by 15% of its total, when that low damage attack is used. <- This is insane to allow to stay this way in an upcoming patch that is supposed to address overbuffed sustain tools game wide. The LF bar is health. I see people posting in here who seem to be wanting to work around that fact, but the LF is a health bar, and it is able to be regenerated to full in 9s over and over again. <- And this is something that is STRONGER while wearing things like Carrion/Rune of Speed, that grant a ton of vitality. Heal stat isn't advantageous for Core Necro, Vitality it is.

Guys, this is already tanky in 1v1s NOW with very high DPS. When the DPS literally "drops through the floor to half of what it is now" it will be impossible to kill a good Necro 1v1. Even if you can do it over the course of time, it won't be worth the time wasted during a conquest match. And INB4 this "but CCs but CCs" that's the most hopeful apathetic thing I've heard in a very long time in this forum. What good is CC training a friggin 28k health death shroud with protection & carapace stacks on it, when you aren't dealing damage while doing it? At that point the Necro doesn't NEED stability because even if he gets Bull's Charged for 0 damage, he'll only eat 1 follow up attack and then be on his feet to move again. By the 1 or 2 people are actually able to deal enough damage to a 28k protection/carapace Death Shroud to bottom it out, or by the time they wait it out, it will have been long enough to where all of those Shroud regeneration skills are ALL off CD again. It's going to be a situation where if a player or players cannot kill the Necro during his 9s vulnerability phase in between Shroud cycles, welp gg. Because that's going to be the only kill opportunity you'll get on it at all. Trying to pummel at & bottom out the Death Shroud is going to become a great way to find yourself losing to attrition.

And I love this "But it doesn't have stability" as if it didn't have triple stun break utility bar, an elite that grants it stability, and a bunch of boon rips to remove opponent stability & convert it into Fear, in conjunction with a roster of heavy AoE Fear CC that keeps people away from it to begin with.

I'm just saying, it might not be able beat you up and kill you real easily, but you won't be able to get a Core Necro off a node 1v1 after this patch. You'd need something built for it like a Decap Engi abusing the hell out of Throw Land Mine or a Ventari Rev. I'm telling you, this Core Necro side node will drive the meta in the same way Fire Weaver drove meta. People will have to resort to other methods outside of DPS to be able to deal with impending Core Necro Side Node. That or ignore it and only ever engage it if 2v1.

Maybe a good idea to lower the LF regen from these skills in a pvp/wvw split, or reduce the total LF health bar in pvp/wvw on Core Necro. Mind you I am only speaking of Core Necro. I feel that Reaper/Scourge will find a good balance point post patch. Core Necro Shroud's fuel tank is just way way way to deep at this point though, and it's going to show post patch.

This is true example if u take signet traited u can 1.) get full shroud super fast 2.) regenerate shroud faster than u lose it(like what) 3.) u have an instant Rez that btw is bugged so that after 5 secs in shroud it comes back fully recharged. Necro is starting to look nutty with all the reworks and patches

Signet and possibly some attacks that generate lf can get you full shroud in about 9 secs.

Just to point out the most LF you will get from the signet in 9s is 24%. This still leaves over 3/4 of your of to gain other ways.

Also even with the desired signet LF degen is always a met negative. Drops to average 1% on core and 3% on reaper.

Also how is the signet bugged? It causes ever signet to recharge in 13~20s.

I mean its design is to win through attrition and it will actually be able to fill its niche.

Dude it’s well known bug for cd reduction on signet due to the fact they kept the old cd for reduction with a new lower duration and I think ur also underestimating signet when it’s traitedI can not reproduce that bug. The 30s cooldown signets recharge in ~14s, the 60s signet in ~17s and the 75s signet in ~19s.

And keep in mind that the signets add sustain only in terms of damage soaking capability for the use of one gm trait, the heal and a utility slot. That's a lot of effort for the benefit. A signet build is low on utility and a sitting duck when focused.

Maybe they hit fixed it, but a few weeks ago ma friend showed me it in detail and it was all over many streams

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@"KrHome.1920" said:Core necro does not have one single source of stability and lost its shroud entering stunbreak.

The meta build is left with no mobility, two dodges and one stunbreak (which got a cooldown nerf).

If anything becomes meta then "Let's kick that core necro punching bag around".

It will be worse than in the rifle cc engineer meta 6 or 7 years ago.

Now at least that core can enjoy the pummeling for a higher duration.

Side note: a ranger main that can simply push the necro off the node with longbow complaining here caused a good laugh!

Side note 2: balancing goal for anet: "necro, a stability lacking resilent profession" - 100% achieved!

Side note 3: signet of vampirism is not bugged when traited. It is recharged after 14 seconds in shroud, when you enter shroud right after casting it. Math: 30s cooldown - 14s - 14x4% = 56% = 16s ... 14 + 16 = 30.

Also it was never signet of vampirism that was bugged it was signet of undeath. Basically it used to on like 140sec cd and is now 75. The bug was the recharge time when traited used the old 140sec cd percentage wise- this resulted in the 75sec cd signet of undeath to recharge with something like 5-8secs in shroud. This was all over streams for awhile and abused in ranked like crazy and I’m not sure if anet fixed it, if they did I didn’t see anyone make a big deal about it

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:^ Title

  • Negative 33% damage game wide
  • Hard CCs going to 0 damage output
  • Quickness access/uptime being massively reduced, leading into far less DPS potential upon even the above nerfs
  • Healing game wide -33%
  • Core Necro Shroud mechanics untouched

If you thought Core Necro was tanky now, put your seatbelt on and prepare yourselves for nearly invulnerable Fear Decapping Core Necro Bunkers.

If this is not addressed before the patch drops, we'll see QQ in the forums on this topic, like an avalanche coming down a mountain.

Time to roll necro.

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@Dantheman.3589 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:Core necro does not have one single source of stability and lost its shroud entering stunbreak.

The meta build is left with no mobility, two dodges and one stunbreak (which got a cooldown nerf).

If anything becomes meta then "Let's kick that core necro punching bag around".

It will be worse than in the rifle cc engineer meta 6 or 7 years ago.

Now at least that core can enjoy the pummeling for a higher duration.

Side note: a ranger main that can simply push the necro off the node with longbow complaining here caused a good laugh!

Side note 2: balancing goal for anet: "necro, a stability lacking resilent profession" - 100% achieved!

Side note 3: signet of vampirism is not bugged when traited. It is recharged after 14 seconds in shroud, when you enter shroud right after casting it. Math: 30s cooldown - 14s - 14x4% = 56% = 16s ... 14 + 16 = 30.

Also it was never signet of vampirism that was bugged it was signet of undeath. Basically it used to on like 140sec cd and is now 75. The bug was the recharge time when traited used the old 140sec cd percentage wise- this resulted in the 75sec cd signet of undeath to recharge with something like 5-8secs in shroud. This was all over streams for awhile and abused in ranked like crazy and I’m not sure if anet fixed it, if they did I didn’t see anyone make a big deal about itThanks. I will check that later today. The wiki page does also have a weird calculation for the signet (11.9 seconds), which is either wrong or the result of a bug.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signets_of_Suffering

/edit: signet of undeath recharges in 11 seconds, like the wiki says. That's clearly a bug based on a wrong formula. The recharge per second in shroud should be 4 seconds (4% of 75s is 3s + that 1s the signet would regenerate anyway) and not 6.3 seconds.

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@reikken.4961 said:wow tl;dr @ this discussion

Anyway, shroud is necro's version of healing. everyone else's healing got nerfed. necro's didn't. What else is there to say?There is to say that necro lost all its burst and so couldn't deal with mobility or builds that block or evade 50% of the fight anymore if the sustain was lowered too.

So many pros here that don't get the most obvious effects that changes will have. The answer to mobility or a high evasion/block uptime has always been burst und necro doesn't have all of that now. So it is left with durability.

Gravedigger will crit for 5k now. Nightfall will crit for 1k now. Grasping darkness went from 4k to 0 damage. The gs5, weaponstow, gs2 combo is a joke now.

Regarding core: that build uses carrion amulet and is a hybrid build. Scepter got tons of nerfs. Core shroud got direct damage nerfs. The fear duration trait was halved. Spectral walk has a huge 50s cooldown now.

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@reikken.4961 said:

@reikken.4961 said:wow tl;dr @ this discussion

Anyway, shroud is necro's version of healing. everyone else's healing got nerfed. necro's didn't. What else is there to say?There is to say that necro lost all its burst and so can't deal with mobility anymore.

how's that relevant?
everyone
lost an equal amount of damageYou are obviously not understanding absolute game basics.

If you put a class with superior damage mitigation (block, evade, mobility) against a necro and lower the healing / life force generation and damage of both equally, then what will happen? The necro will have even a harder time to win the fight because the amount of time where he is actually able to kill its target will remain the same while he will need more time to kill. So the superior damage mitigation becomes even stronger.

Simple examples: a necro that can not oneshot, will never kill a thief. A necro that can not burst in the tiny amounts of time between the endless dragon hunter blocks and leaps, will never kill it.

Anet is not stupid and knows that. That's why they were reluctant with sustain nerfs of necro.

When anet starts to nerf blocks, evades, leaps, teleports and invulnerabilities, then it is time to look at the life force generation. But if they do this, then they will lower the time to kill again, what is the opposite of what they want to achieve.

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@"KrHome.1920" said:If you put a class with superior damage mitigation (block, evade, mobility) against a necro and lower the healing / life force generation and damage of both equally, then what will happen? The necro will have even a harder time to win the fight because the amount of time where he is actually able to kill its target will remain the same while he will need more time to kill. So the superior damage mitigation becomes even stronger.Simple examples: a necro that can not oneshot, will never kill a thief. A necro that can not burst in the tiny amounts of time between the endless dragon hunter blocks and leaps, will never kill it.What kind of example are those… Necro (or any profession for that matter) does not need to one shot to win a fight. This thread is mainly about core necro which never was about oneshoting. Also if do not worry about those "superior damage mitigation skills" since they got nerfed.

When anet starts to nerf blocks, evades, leaps, teleports and invulnerabilities, then it is time to look at the life force generation. But if they do this, then they will lower the time to kill again, what is the opposite of what they want to achieve.Good news lots of those skills are impacted by the patch. So we can now look at LF right?Fact is still that LF got untouched. So necro capability to mitigate damage got barely changed when damage goes down.

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@"Emapudapus.1307" said:Its not only about core necro too tanky/too strong, but as its showing itself its more like water weaver 2.0 interactivenes to play as or against. Fun fun, i dont think anyone wants that, op or not.

How is it like fighting a water weaver? It has 2 dodges (not counting a vigor source from somewhere)...you can still hit it even if some of the damage is soaked. That means you can still "interact" with it. A necro will never sustain as long as the current meta ele builds.

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This thread is going to be very embarrassing to some people after the patch.

In short, there's a reason why Necros have almost always been excluded from dueling and the first target focused at the start of the match (despite not being a healer). Nothing in this patch will change that. In fact, it will make things worse for necros as being the primary focus target. They are BY FAR the profession with the least abilities to deal with more than 1 opponent as they aren't even suited for duels.

I can politely explain in more detail.

The problem is that they created a profession with theoretically a super high delta in performance, but they consistently nerf the high performance aspect without mitigating the super low delta in performance. It's all related to too much reliance on LF.

Let's talk about the "low delta" first. It's so much lower for a Necro versus every other profession. In fact, in the history of MMOs...no class/profession is weaker than a Necro without LF. If a necro doesn't have LF, it has almost no defenses...many talents/abilities aren't even available, so it drops their viability to a fraction of what others experience without their "resources". It's why they are far and away (and have always been) the primary focus target in sPvP and can be farmed at the spawn unlike others.

On an related note, some professions like mesmers don't even have a resource to manage which unsurprisingly is why they have been problematic in PvP balance. Everytime you nerf one thing with Mesmer, you find that they have something just as strong elsewhere because they never get to the core issue of giving mesmers no real resources to manage to create a super "low delta" in performance.

Getting back to necros. They also gave them abilities with long cast times, long cooldowns, and some things even damage themselves if they use. On top of all that, the primary means for generating LF is going into combat AND getting hit. There are no scaling defenses like blocks, immunities, or evades. No vigor or insta escapes on short cooldowns...no stealth...limited mobility...AND...they are given cloth to wear.

The only mitigation they have is extra health, but that doesn't scale against a zerg which makes them difficult to balance.

You would think that because a Necro without LF is so weak and so poor against a zerg, that they would be great 1v1...but they nerfed the high performance delta of a necro to equal no better than others and even worse than many. Even a necro with full LF and not facing a zerg will have problems against most professions and that's why they can't even excel in duels.

Thus, Anet created a profession that by design has the lowest floor in performance, yet didn't give them the highest ceiling. If you think any of the patch will change the core issues that keep Necros unable to duel and unable to withstand a zerg, it won't. The reliance on LF has only INCREASED with less stability...less stun breaks...longer cooldown on spectral skills...cast time on the one defense (fear).

In short...you don't have to believe me or my logic. See for yourself. If you think any other profession will be targeted more at the start of a match, then you're just going to be embarrassed very soon. When one profession is targeted more than other by a large margin, it tells you all you need to know.

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Guys, stop talking about the Necro damage and killing opponents, which is moot to my point made.

What I was saying is that it won't need to kill opponents while it tanks perpetually on a node and fears people off constantly for decap.

It's just going to be another situation that is as obnoxious as it could possibly be, similar to old-school engi decap or ventari tablet bunkers.

This has nothing to do with if the Necromancer can kill you or not.

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@reikken.4961 said:wow tl;dr @ this discussion

Anyway, shroud is necro's version of healing. everyone else's healing got nerfed. necro's didn't. What else is there to say?

HP values and armor value aren't changed either....any way they nerfed sustain of necro via traits/skills just like everybody else, if they going to shave necro's pseudo HP then they may as well start looking at HP and armor, i would love to see all armor/hp shaved by 30% LOL it's gonna be funny, but that would probably defeat the propose of this patch, welp

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