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Do you think GW2 gets enough instanced group content?


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@Randulf.7614 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Icebrood Saga felt the perfect place to bring in some EOTN dungeons. I know there was no expectation they would, but given the locations are already there, it seemed at least appropriateDarkrime Delves for example. Did I miss why mounts can't be used there? I can't help thinking they meant to do more with that.

Yes, they disabled mounts to reduce the clutter around what you see there as part of the story step since it is in the shared world. They felt having a load of people on mounts was somewhat immersion breaking given it was meant invoke a feeling of solemnity and sorrow, but obviously not a big enough step to instance it.

Huh, that whole story step only invoked feelings of annoyance for me, more than anything in the game ever did. The meta was going on at the time, which I knew nothing about at that point, and I didn't have the mastery to protect against the blizzard. I had no clue what was going on and couldn't see a thing. After that I was so fed up with the game, I didn't log back on until a week before the next chapter was released. In light of that, disabling mounts to avoid clutter sounds like a bad joke.
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@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Icebrood Saga felt the perfect place to bring in some EOTN dungeons. I know there was no expectation they would, but given the locations are already there, it seemed at least appropriateDarkrime Delves for example. Did I miss why mounts can't be used there? I can't help thinking they meant to do more with that.

Yes, they disabled mounts to reduce the clutter around what you see there as part of the story step since it is in the shared world. They felt having a load of people on mounts was somewhat immersion breaking given it was meant invoke a feeling of solemnity and sorrow, but obviously not a big enough step to instance it.

Huh, that whole story step only invoked feelings of annoyance for me, more than anything in the game ever did. The meta was going on at the time, which I knew nothing about at that point, and I didn't have the mastery to protect against the blizzard. I had no clue what was going on and couldn't see a thing. After that I was so fed up with the game, I didn't log back on until a week before the next chapter was released. In light of that, disabling mounts to avoid clutter sounds like a bad joke.

Their reasoning is fine to be honest. I don't think a lot of people are that emotionally invested in the story that way to be too bothered, but that isn't to say they shouldn't at least try to create the right tone even if many don't care/appreciate it. That's the writers doing their job correctly.

I find it more amusing/annoying they put thought into removing visual clutter there, yet in actual fights, metas etc...they actually seem to worsen it... (blizzard case in point)

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@Asum.4960 said:quarterly revenue

... was down for all of NCsoft's games outside of Lineage. And apparently a number of other MMOs felt a similar pinch at the same time. It's a trend that happens to both old games like GW2 and is happening to PC MMOs in general. See signature for reason.

So no. Anet tailoring the game to your tastes won't make them rich.

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@thepenmonster.3621 said:

@"Asum.4960" said:quarterly revenue

... was down for all of NCsoft's games outside of Lineage. And apparently a number of other MMOs felt a similar pinch at the same time. It's a trend that happens to both old games like GW2 and is happening to PC MMOs in general. See signature for reason.

So no. Anet tailoring the game to your tastes won't make them rich.

While it is a quarterly trend in general (except as you said for games like Lineage 2 actually managing to increase revenue by 20% in Q4), GW2 has been pretty stable over the years.From 86 Billion KRW in 2014, increasing to 101 in 2015 (which was the best post release hype year for GW2 with HoT, releasing as more hardcore expansion and introducing content like Raids) to 77 in 2016, to 83 in 2017 (launch year of PoF) to 80 in 2018, it's quite the drop to 59 billion KRW in 2019.

It's not just a 25% quarterly drop in the 4Q of 2019 from Q3, but also marks a 26% drop in yearly revenue (and a 42% drop since HoT days).

Meanwhile Blade and Soul for example is just dropping back down to (but still above) revenue levels of 2014, after experiencing a massive spike the last few years with the EU/US launch of the game, getting boosted by having acquired a massive new market.

So while other games are dropping in revenue as well (especially Aion), B&S for example still made more revenue in 2019 than 2014, while GW2 suddenly dropped this year, and being 31% lower in 2019 revenue than 2014, for comparison.

I'm not saying more substantial or hardcore content would make Anet "rich" (besides, 45 million €/48 million $ a year is still alright), but clearly the short lived LW content stream of 2019 as a whole, without expansion or other long term engaging (hardcore) content on the horizon, hasn't been working well.

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without expansion or other long term engaging (hardcore) content

One last try...

There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

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@thepenmonster.3621 said:Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids

They want that side of the game played more.If they truly wanted raids be played more, they would implement systems that truly has a chance to increase the player count:monetary and item incentives and multiple difficulties.The way I see it, Strike missions are just an outlet for those with interesting raid boss ideas, without Anet having to bother creating whole raids.They are a replacement for raids.

You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.I don't think it doesn't need anymore waiting to see that strikes don't come close to result in an step-ladder for raids.Also, Anet had more then enough time to realize the main part of their audience is not interested in higher difficulties.Strikes are too difficult and performance-driven, so people do not like them. They aren't even rewarding enough to get all that many people try them.Why should people, who obviously have no interest in getting better, bother with training for difficulties over their ability, when they can play easier, more rewarding parts of the game?

[...]it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them.The main problems are the difficulty and the rewards.Those elitist people that many don't want to play with are a direct result of the difficulty, not the root of the problem.

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@thepenmonster.3621 said:One last try...

Indeed.

@thepenmonster.3621 said:There's a wider trending downwards that is beyond anyone's ability to change. People play games on their phones in 2020. Also GW2 is an "old" game. A loss of players and revenue was inevitable, will continue for a while, and it will never be 2014 for them ever again. Adding more to game modes that were never popular to begin with won't change that.

Anet are trying to draw more players into the raids and the like so they can justify putting more manpower into it, so it's obvious they are more on your side of things than mine (their efforts are better spent elsewhere IMO). They want that side of the game played more. You will need at least one more year to see how that plan shakes out so the doom-screamers need to slow their roll and wait.

I don't think it'll work solely because.... Pink Tap-Dancing Elephant in the Room time... it's not the difficulty that keeps people away from those modes, it's the people playing them. Only time will tell if strikes will make hardcore modes appealing, because hardcore players sure ain't.

While there is an unfortunate wider trend, it's both one GW2 has been defying for years now, as well as the drop for 2019 going far beyond that overall trend.

Raids at it's peak according to efficiency with VG was cleared by 30% of the player base, which only started to drastically dip after release schedules for the content slowed down significantly, in addition to coinciding with a disappointingly easy Wing 4 release, after that increased wait time - driving away a lot of disappointed hardcore players.Not only was that not a niche audience, it was also a highly engaged one. Both in and out of game.

And ofc they want that side of the game to be played more, because it's an area of the game where communities (static raid groups) and guilds are formed, and which can be repeated for years on end, which is what combined keeps players engaged (and interacting with the gemstore) longterm, over the log in every 3-4 months and play for a week, or even just 2h, free single player content that LW provides, after which players check out again without getting much or consistent Gemstore engagement, let alone creating buzz around the game from outside engagement.

The best way to enjoy content like Raiding is and has always been forming/joining a static of like minded people.Pugging is a last resort for coordinated group content, and especially unsuited for beginners due to clashing expectations and mentalities.Hardcore players aren't keeping anyone away from hardcore content as much as casuals are barring themselves from it. It's just a lot of casual players are used to being able to do whatever and still get free instant gratification across most of the rest of the game, which clashes quite hard when they then try to join a organised team environment tackling semi-difficult content with certain baseline expectations, making it needlessly hard on themselves, as well as the people they are joining unprepared.There is a reason training groups exist, and everybody is able to from their own group according to their own skill level and expectations, socially and in terms of what amount of content progression they expect.

Lastly, I'm pretty confident that if Anet had released another HoT like feature rich expansion with a more endgame focus in late 2019, the buzz leading up to that as well as the sales number from that would have most likely lead to revenue of the levels of 2014 again.It's not like 2016, 17 and 18 weren't on that level.It's just that they really dropped the ball in 2019, regardless of any trends working against them, which is reflected in a 23% drop in revenue from the previously lowest year for GW2 in 2016, which was suffering from the content draught after HoT.

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@"Raknar.4735" said:No wonder the revenues plumetted. The "hardcore" playerbase didn't buy templates and the casual playerbase didn't care about them. Besides the templates there was nothing really interesting offered in the gemstore, so there was no reason to spend money that quarter. I guess developing the templates wasn't really worth it in the end.

Given how the "hardcore" playerbase already had build templates to begin with, I don't think the templates were created for them anyway. Removing the already existing, free, feature rich, version, to replace it with a heavily monetized feature lacking version didn't help.

Edit: They hired Benjamin Arnold back, he was responsible for instanced content so there is hope that we are gonna get more of it.

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@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Raknar.4735" said:No wonder the revenues plumetted. The "hardcore" playerbase didn't buy templates and the casual playerbase didn't care about them. Besides the templates there was nothing really interesting offered in the gemstore, so there was no reason to spend money that quarter. I guess developing the templates wasn't really worth it in the end.

Given how the "hardcore" playerbase already had build templates to begin with, I don't think the templates were created for them anyway. Removing the already existing, free, feature rich, version, to replace it with a heavily monetized feature lacking version didn't help.

Edit: They hired Benjamin Arnold back, he was responsible for instanced content so there is hope that we are gonna get more of it.

Yeah, that's what I mean. The templates weren't created for anyone in the end.

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I want more instanced group content, But I want it to be good. I've done raiding (The first three wings) And to me they seemed less..... well fun? I don't know the raiding here doesn't feel as good as elsewhere.. I think its because of the progression of characters being tilted where as in other games raids/trials/dungeons/ect are tied directly to you becoming stronger. (ESO dungeons are fun as hell, so are trials.) And WoW is king daddy at raiding and I've done both within both and to be honest It has something Guild wars 2 doesnt, which is progression.

You get cool gear, with awesome passives and cool effects ONTOP of your class skills and passives. So you get something cool for doing it where as in here you get what? Some skins? Legendary armor which honestly can be obtained elsewhere? Raids have NOTHING worth obtaining and thus to most players have no reason to be done or to deal with the community within them. The game was not designed FOR that content and the way the game plays goes AGAINST that content, There is no need to progress and there is no reason to do the raids because they have nothing of value outside of what you can get elsewhere. Its also less rewarding that open world maps and meta's, hell Id argue WvW and PvP have more rewards to be had than Raids do.(Not by much.)

Most players don't do things for fun like I do, I like doing that type of content. But I also like having a goal to chase and with raids in guild wars 2 I just don't feel it.... I never have unfortunately. Id rather them spend resources elswhere such as E-specs or new stuff for our classes, or a new class or new races because for "Me" that is content I'd be interested in based on how the game plays and works. (Fashion wars is end-game, a new race adds to the endgame.) A new class changes how you play the game, as do E-specs. Id rather them do that then the same old, same old meh another raid that went on in the past.

(I do support raids, I just feel they need to give them more to offer and make them more dynamic and themed as well as interesting. Which right now they seem like copy past, Dhuum is LITERALLY argus the unmaker from WoW Legion, he has virutally the same mechanics as Argus and they even look similar. Came out around the same time So I did Mythic Argus~ Means I've fought dhuum once and got better rewards for doing so.)

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We do need to bring back dungeons tho. Dead content. Not only for beginners but for vets too. Give meaningful rewards and challenging mechanics and it'll be good. Fractals are like dungeons i guess but still having dungeons with different kinds of mechanics and rewards wouldn't be bad for sure.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think its alright .

They should make a census as an expirement :If 5.000 different accounts play in Raids in a month , then a second Raid will be created .If 8.000 => 1x Raid + 1x Fractal.If only 2500 play this month , then they will have to wait another month to reach the 5.000 goaletc

If people use their alts and they dont like invinting less skilled players , its fine . It will take them some extra time to reach that goal .Or they can buy extra coppies .Accounts that had Raid done once per month (got invited by luck-werent asked/forced to link KillProof (KL-PL)) and are wilingly to Dungeon + Fractals on their own later , contribute to that goal regadles if they did x4 the Raids or only x1 in that month .

edit:Maybe implanting a ''Like'' Button towards the Raid Leaders (for some cookies rewards)

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Not even remotely close.

Practically speaking if they wanted to encourage group play (and by proxy make partying easier, eventually helping out other instance content) there should have been a group instance for each LS map since Season 3.

Things like strikes added for Frost Saga should have happened ages ago.

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@Amaranthe.3578 said:

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:2018 and 2019 only had 1 raid and 1 fractal released each year. 2020 is looking to have only 1 fractal and no raids.

When you put it like it that it makes it look like the game is dying :(

For quite a few people, that already happened quite a while ago. I'm still curious whether their obvious casual-only focus will pay off or whether the tendency from last quarter's numbers become the new normal.

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