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NC Soft Q4 earnings report. GW2 25% decline over Q3


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@Shadowmoon.7986 said:This is my hot take. Anets gamble to cater to the vocal minority of toxic casuals on this board by giving access to everything and lowering the difficulty curve has backfired.Add to that they angered pvp, wvw, and hardcore pve players with build templates and specifically their monitization. These communities were already salty after the saga announcement and getting scraps.I can tell you after August 30 many of my raid friends left for ff14, and then build templates came, and rest of them followed suit. I am sure anets partially to blame for ff14 increased revenue.

I have a differnet interpretation. The hard core crowd, long disenfranchised has gone into so many threads on some many forums talking about how the game is dying or in maintainence mode without any context that people started to believe it, even though it's not true for everyone. Every one I know who posts on reddit has walked away except me, because of a small group of really hard core dedicated people who delight in saying the game is dying whenever they can. This is far more likely that the so-called toxic casuals. In fact, HoT didn't actually increase the playerbase, because if it had, PoF would have been more like HoT. Anet has the numbers, we don't. The odds are they are trying to find a balance, but they're not looking to sink they're own ship. If Anet is making content more casual, it's because there are more casual players. It's just simple logic.

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Guild wars 2 lacks the coverage it used to get. In an age that brings us new games every day it is important to stay relevant, some adds, releasing on platform such steam and epic game store with regular events or sales keep a game going. You need constant coverage.

Let's look at black desert:

  • They do a sale + announcement of something new coming = increase in sales
  • new class gets added = increase in sales
  • new awaking (elite spec in gw2 case) is added = increase sales
  • Sale on the game + announcement about what is coming = increase in sales
  • new content added
  • seasonal event
  • sale
  • ...

The cycle goes on. Black desert gets more coverage for a seasonal event then gw2 gets for an update.If gw2 would release on steam and epic game store: make it so they have every month something (see above) the game would have a constant influx of players.Include this with the launch of a new storefront + a new currency (rubies) which can only be bought with rl money to buy these specs/housing or expansions and you have a win win scenario.

Then release a monthly update on the games feature "state of the game" and talk about what you are working on for each feature to keep players engaged to see that the increase of players and revenue is benefiting the game and we are talking about a great long future.

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@Thenme.6491 said:it's just one quarter I would be concerned only if it keeps going in the same direction next quarter. I mean look at the lineage history their decline is way bigger and a quarter later they had huge revenue

Yes but Anet needs to actually do something to trigger that uptick

Shelving all instanced content other than Strikes, delivering dull metas like Drakkar, and dragging their feet with WvW/PvP doesn't bring people back nor give prospective new players a reason to invest their time in a game that only seems to be downsizing itself.

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@"Arden.7480" said:To be absolutely honest, now we know why we got so many news, posts, everything will be perfect in 2021, we lay the groundwork etc.

This improvement of communication was caused by this massive drop of money.

That can be read in both ways: more positive and more negative, first is that the community has spoken with their wallets, and that's why there is some kind of improvement on PR side. second on the other hand means they actually panicked before the NCsoft's report and wanted to cover this massive drop by milions of news, i mean that's why we got this big post from Andrew Gray few days ago.

just look at reddit rn, like people still believe in bright future

Everything looks so beautiful now, right? I am not sure, for me it's just another mirage, and people will believe there is an oasis, while it's going to be just a dry desert.

I think the problem is, there are many of us (like me) who enjoy the whole as a whole, but get fed up with constant wasted potential (Drakkar....). I've tried endlessly to defend the game week in and week out, but I'm struggling to find something to grasp onto when they squander episodes so badly like the last two. It's not even that they are outright bad, it's just they don't realise the potential in the product they have. I'm not even sure they care about their Universe anymore.

And if that perception - right or wrong - is being felt by a portion of the base, then we aren't going to be obliged to part with money here and instead spend it elsewhere (which is what I now do - GW2 just doesn't move up the list of my whale-like spending any longer).

They need to do something big to restore a waning confidence

GW2 might be one of the most poorly-managed products in MMO history. They definitely need to do something big to restore confidence.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"Arden.7480" said:To be absolutely honest, now we know why we got so many news, posts, everything will be perfect in 2021, we lay the groundwork etc.

This improvement of communication was caused by this massive drop of money.

That can be read in both ways: more positive and more negative, first is that the community has spoken with their wallets, and that's why there is some kind of improvement on PR side. second on the other hand means they actually panicked before the NCsoft's report and wanted to cover this massive drop by milions of news, i mean that's why we got this big post from Andrew Gray few days ago.

just look at reddit rn, like people still believe in bright future

Everything looks so beautiful now, right? I am not sure, for me it's just another mirage, and people will believe there is an oasis, while it's going to be just a dry desert.

I think the problem is, there are many of us (like me) who enjoy the whole as a whole, but get fed up with constant wasted potential (Drakkar....). I've tried endlessly to defend the game week in and week out, but I'm struggling to find something to grasp onto when they squander episodes so badly like the last two. It's not even that they are outright bad, it's just they don't realise the potential in the product they have. I'm not even sure they care about their Universe anymore.

And if that perception - right or wrong - is being felt by a portion of the base, then we aren't going to be obliged to part with money here and instead spend it elsewhere (which is what I now do - GW2 just doesn't move up the list of my whale-like spending any longer).

They need to do something big to restore a waning confidence

GW2 might be one of the most poorly-managed products in MMO history. They definitely need to do something big to restore confidence.

I wouldn't say worst managed but they definitely have a PR problem. Always have since launch and it keeps getting worst every year. Tons of people have no idea GW2 exist and are probably looking for a game just like it. They have pretty much lost all their influencers so nobody talks about it on youtube and social media anymore. You barely see any adds for it, you don't see it on store shelves.

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@"zealex.9410" said:Over the last years alot of the other mmos have been gaining, and strangely enough alot of them have either paid dlc/expansions, subscriptions or a mix. It feels like subscriptions are making a strong comeback as a form of monetisation.

Whales are moving on to the mobile scene (FATE GO has made over a billion dollars at this point) and those of that remain have had years now to see what "free/buy to play" really means in the long run and are rightfully weary of games that may just end up taking cash shop profits and spending it on more cash shop items instead of the game.

Sub games have an incentive to keep you playing and subbed.

Cash Shop games have an incentive to get you to buy a limited time item before it's gone.

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@Substance E.4852 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:Over the last years alot of the other mmos have been gaining, and strangely enough alot of them have either paid dlc/expansions, subscriptions or a mix. It feels like subscriptions are making a strong comeback as a form of monetisation.

Whales are moving on to the mobile scene (FATE GO has made over a billion dollars at this point) and those of that remain have had years now to see what "free/buy to play" really means in the long run and are rightfully weary of games that may just end up taking cash shop profits and spending it on more cash shop items instead of the game.

Sub games have an incentive to keep you playing and subbed.

Cash Shop games have an incentive to get you to buy a limited time item before it's gone.

Well tbh every mmo with a sub also has a cash shop.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:This is my hot take. Anets gamble to cater to the vocal minority of toxic casuals on this board by giving access to everything and lowering the difficulty curve has backfired.Add to that they angered pvp, wvw, and hardcore pve players with build templates and specifically their monitization. These communities were already salty after the saga announcement and getting scraps.I can tell you after August 30 many of my raid friends left for ff14, and then build templates came, and rest of them followed suit. I am sure anets partially to blame for ff14 increased revenue.

I have a differnet interpretation. The hard core crowd, long disenfranchised has gone into so many threads on some many forums talking about how the game is dying or in maintainence mode without any context that people started to believe it, even though it's not true for everyone. Every one I know who posts on reddit has walked away except me, because of a small group of really hard core dedicated people who delight in saying the game is dying whenever they can. This is far more likely that the so-called toxic casuals. In fact, HoT didn't actually increase the playerbase, because if it had, PoF would have been more like HoT. Anet has the numbers, we don't. The odds are they are trying to find a balance, but they're not looking to sink they're own ship. If Anet is making content more casual, it's because there are more casual players. It's just simple logic.

Pof was not like hot because hot got alot of feedback, no map had a real meta and you saw that post hot the quickly course corrected that with meta events in lw.

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@zealex.9410 said:

@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:This is my hot take. Anets gamble to cater to the vocal minority of toxic casuals on this board by giving access to everything and lowering the difficulty curve has backfired.Add to that they angered pvp, wvw, and hardcore pve players with build templates and specifically their monitization. These communities were already salty after the saga announcement and getting scraps.I can tell you after August 30 many of my raid friends left for ff14, and then build templates came, and rest of them followed suit. I am sure anets partially to blame for ff14 increased revenue.

I have a differnet interpretation. The hard core crowd, long disenfranchised has gone into so many threads on some many forums talking about how the game is dying or in maintainence mode without any context that people started to believe it, even though it's not true for everyone. Every one I know who posts on reddit has walked away except me, because of a small group of really hard core dedicated people who delight in saying the game is dying whenever they can. This is far more likely that the so-called toxic casuals. In fact, HoT didn't actually increase the playerbase, because if it had, PoF would have been more like HoT. Anet has the numbers, we don't. The odds are they are trying to find a balance, but they're not looking to sink they're own ship. If Anet is making content more casual, it's because there are more casual players. It's just simple logic.

Pof was not like hot because hot got alot of feedback, no map had a real meta and you saw that post hot the quickly course corrected that with meta events in lw.

That's a vast simplification of the differences between HoT and PoF, starting with soloable hero points and ending with bountis instead of metas as the main content. Less timed and more immediate. Content on demand. Also the zones were less perplexing. Also it was easier to get and finish leveling masteries. There were a whole host of changes between the expansions, involving a lot more than just metas. The expansions felt completely different. Took people forever to "grind" out HoT masteries, but you didn't really hear that complaint about PoF.

My point is if HoT was a hot expansion (pun intended) why make it different? Why change it up? Why make all those changes if HOT did well for the company? Every company I know sees something succesful and does more of the successful thing. My guess is HOT wasn't successful or PoF would have been more like HOT.

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@> @Vayne.8563 said:My point is if HoT was a hot expansion (pun intended) why make it different? Why change it up? Why make all those changes if HOT did well for the company? Every company I know sees something succesful and does more of the successful thing. My guess is HOT wasn't successful or PoF would have been more like HOT.

Let me remind you that during POF, HOT was selling too. Also a quick reminder that with HOT they made the game free, losing a large sum of revenue. The latest drop in revenue can also be attributed to making HOT free with the purchase of POF. Why change it up is a silly question, expansions need to be different otherwise they are not expansions. Why release more of the same?

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No expansion, no expansion like content, build templates being a big disaster... I'm not surprised, I've personally stopped putting much money in the game. And I use to spend a couple hundred dollars a year.

I'm excited about the balance patch, but the game is running at a crawl.

I'm still sort of optimistic though, it just means that for now, the game is taking up much less of my time. Hopefully they will announce an expansion soon, because I've been waiting for new weapons on some of my favorite classes for so long...

Time will tell if it just keeps in this direction or the company finds a way to develop amazing content again, like in HoT. Honestly, I miss that launch. Was so damn much fun looking back. PoF was nice for awhile, but it really lacked the sustain factor of HoT for me.

And as much as I love mounts, I wouldn't be against new zones having a new mastery to allow mounts, to give us more of the raw feeling of core and HoT. Too many details get passed by with the current game design.

My 2 cents, but this is still my favorite MMO and with PVP about to become rejuvenated, I'm excited to try that again soon. It's been way too boring since PoF. I barely play my favorite game more anymore.

The new maps have been nice imo, but the skill bloat and poor game design choices left me feeling sour.

Still love this game! And I hope it finds its legs again soon.

Also, can we please kill Braham? Let that wolf spirit be a ruse and have him turn into the voice of jormag. I can't believe after dragging his drunk ass around, being insulted and eventually apologized to. Mistake after mistake, he's rewarded by being the chosen one. And somehow the commander gets one shot... I fought a God and won. I came back from the dead... That was just ridiculous.

I don't need my PC to be OP, but that made no sense.

Take your time, rebalance the game. And release us a massive expansion and finish it this time. Every expansion feels rushed.

Be innovative like the release.

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ANet has always been highly secretive about the game and its future.

They are in a new environment. With the huge restructuring last year, they need to make fundamental changes to the game and their business if they want to survive. I believe more open communication is the most important missing element in their plans. Too many times we read "I can't speak about that" or something similar from ANet.

Spoilers about story? Sure, keep those under wraps. Spoilers about the direction of the game? Open up and tell us. We're a forgiving bunch. We'll understand if you just can't complete what you thought you would. But, silence will, with 100% certainty, kill the game.

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@"Super Hayes.6890" said:The game is still fun but aside from the occasional must have gem store item there hasn't been much reason for me to spend money while I play. I am of the crowd that will purchase every expansion they make for me and each of my family that plays with me. They simply aren't motivating me to spend any money atm and I suspect it's the same for a lot of the loyal player base. I didn't need templates and therefore spent zero dollars on them. They are nice but not spend money nice for me.

I think they need to carefully consider creating in-game inconveniences or rewards (like harvesting, for example) that involve doing a thing, then providing tools to make doing the thing more convenient on the gem store.

They appear to haphazardly create fun items for the gem store (such as chairs). I would suggest that the "inconveniences and rewards" are planned in greater detail in future,

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@Shadowmoon.7986 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:Also keep in mind that Arenanet stopped selling Heart of Thorns in late Q3 and of course it was free for the entirety of Q4
Maybe that can explain part of the drop, depending on how well Heart of Thorns was selling.

Good point, while it may not account for the entire drop, it certainly contributed. But HOT now comes with POF, so there should be an increase in rev from an increase in value as a pack?

That depends on how much HOT was selling before. When the game went free to play, the Core Game was still selling on online retailers, meaning the game lost a good amount of revenue from going free back in 2015. I believe its' the same situation here, the content quality/quantity, the Saga announcement and so on, are good indicators of a drop in revenue, I won't deny that, but I think stopping the sale of a, popular, expansion is likely to have an impact on revenue too. It's a very big bump in Q4 from being so stable in the previous 3 quarters to be justified on content "quality" or the build templates in my opinion. Of course we'll never know.

The announcement of the last founder leaving spelled "game over" to many as well. I constantly hear the game had reached EOL. Time will tell. One of the devs I follow on twitter has "... of an unamed title" in the section of employment. Which could mean the one that was cancelled, or there is a new game in the works.

That dev in her own words never worked on gw2, i dont know why people care what she has to say. Its like people in wow worrying about what a d3 or hearthstone dev has to say.

Didn't know that, can you point out the tweet?

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Havent played for a year and half,reinstalled mostly for the balance patch,but im not expecting nothing big out of it to be honest: i just want to see if some problems get fixed,cos frankly i love the combat system of this game.I played mostly WvW but i still enjoined pve activities back in the days(like before HoT).Pve is now mostly tedious to me: every time there is a new mastery,a new currency and everything is tied mostly to public events,time gates for certain activities....nah m8

I was actually watching a video of a guy "getting" the skyscale.Not worth my time doing all that tedious farming.

I loved Gw2 cos it wasnt tedious like the other mmorpg around back then and this is the reason why it is the only mmorpg where i levelled ALL the aviable classes in the game.I HAD FUN doing that and revisit maps...I hated unlocking the new professions in HoT via pve.I remember getting an headache playing those maps with all that public events,mounts and mastery requirements to progress in the map.Two years ago i convinced my cousin to play the game and he was actually enjoining it till he got to the HoT maps.He got an headache (lol) aswell after a day in those maps.

If i want to devote myself to tedious GRINDs id prefer doing it on other mmorpg like WoW where i know that even if the game gets terrible i know it still will survive.So all the time ive spent is not for nothing.There is not going to be a WoW 2 but rather an other expansion.(maybe a terrible one)On the other hand there is a Gw, GW2 and with the current state of Gw2 i get that idea of "it is done": GW3 is coming sooner or later.

I dont know.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:This is my hot take. Anets gamble to cater to the vocal minority of toxic casuals on this board by giving access to everything and lowering the difficulty curve has backfired.Add to that they angered pvp, wvw, and hardcore pve players with build templates and specifically their monitization. These communities were already salty after the saga announcement and getting scraps.I can tell you after August 30 many of my raid friends left for ff14, and then build templates came, and rest of them followed suit. I am sure anets partially to blame for ff14 increased revenue.

I have a differnet interpretation. The hard core crowd, long disenfranchised has gone into so many threads on some many forums talking about how the game is dying or in maintainence mode without any context that people started to believe it, even though it's not true for everyone. Every one I know who posts on reddit has walked away except me, because of a small group of really hard core dedicated people who delight in saying the game is dying whenever they can. This is far more likely that the so-called toxic casuals. In fact, HoT didn't actually increase the playerbase, because if it had, PoF would have been more like HoT. Anet has the numbers, we don't. The odds are they are trying to find a balance, but they're not looking to sink they're own ship. If Anet is making content more casual, it's because there are more casual players. It's just simple logic.

Pof was not like hot because hot got alot of feedback, no map had a real meta and you saw that post hot the quickly course corrected that with meta events in lw.

That's a vast simplification of the differences between HoT and PoF, starting with soloable hero points and ending with bountis instead of metas as the main content. Less timed and more immediate. Content on demand. Also the zones were less perplexing. Also it was easier to get and finish leveling masteries. There were a whole host of changes between the expansions, involving a lot more than just metas. The expansions felt completely different. Took people forever to "grind" out HoT masteries, but you didn't really hear that complaint about PoF.

My point is if HoT was a hot expansion (pun intended) why make it different? Why change it up? Why make all those changes if HOT did well for the company? Every company I know sees something succesful and does more of the successful thing. My guess is HOT wasn't successful or PoF would have been more like HOT.

Because that's a huge problem in management that Anet has in general. They spend ages developing a foundation for a decent new system/style of content, release it, get some feedback about it's flaws that really need to be fixed for it to be actually great, and then they ignore most feedback, abandon the system/style of content and go on to develop something inferior instead, and on and on.They are constantly changing things up that worked well for inferior products, while rarely going back to fix up past errors to truly make those efforts shine.It's like they are eternally stuck in "building the foundation" for something, without ever fully realising a vision.

PoF would in no way have survived a content draught the like of which followed HoT and probably was financially entirely saved due to the hype and monetization of mount skins and content wise getting saved by a continuation of LW Season 4 just 2 months later, while HoT with it's slightly more hardcore direction kept players engaged and spending for almost an entire year until the next Living World season started.

And that's with HoT being marketed as system building expansion which future content would benefit from, while PoF was the "content" expansion.

As for the current dive in earnings, while that is ofc unfortunate, it's evenly expected and deserved in a way.The push for more casual only content with LW over proper expansions as well as lack of longterm repeatable endgame content like Fractal (CM's) and Raids and features like ESpecs to refresh the gameplay experience, followed by nails in the coffin for hardcore players like the pushing out of Arc to be replaced by a massively overmonitized inferior system which would have hardcore players see spending literally over a thousand euros/dollars to get half their builds and functionality back, combined with the layoffs, followed up by even the last company founders jumping ship, was just the roughest of ride the game ever had.

Most if not all players I know, including myself, went from hardcore players with at least occasional or even high spending to either just playing casually or quitting altogether (mainly due to lack of Raid and Fractal content as well as the template fiasco), with no spending anymore at all. That's probably true for a lot more players as well.

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At least anet is pivoting off their failed gambit, they are moving Cameron rich off living world and making a proper fractal with a cm. They are also making vague promises to the raid community. It will be 6 month down the line until they will bare fruit, but that is how course correcting works. It took that long to course correct after HoT, but of course HoT mistakes were not as costly as this one.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:I wonder what their revenue would have been had they charged real world currency to unlock the LW episodes rather than give them out for free.

I wonder the same ... assuming people are more interested in playing the game than having the latest outfit, I would suspect even a nominal fee would be in order. Unfortunately, Anet closed that door a long time ago; any notion to pay for LW's without some guarantee that the sum of LW delivers the same kind of value an expansion does would mean the end IMO.

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@Vayne.8563 said:My point is if HoT was a hot expansion (pun intended) why make it different? Why change it up? Why make all those changes if HOT did well for the company? Every company I know sees something succesful and does more of the successful thing. My guess is HOT wasn't successful or PoF would have been more like HOT.The number show that there was a downward trend before HoT and Hot didn't turn that around. It was too difficult and complext for a lot of players. However, nobody can contend that the game would've been fine without HoT because in the end people were getting bored with the same old content also. So it's more likely to assume that the downward trend would've continued.

The other thing with expansions is that when an expansion doesn't work out well, people will give it another shot often with the next expansion. That's what PoF did and it worked a lot better. In fact PoF was a success and turned the trend around and after the two sales quarters of having a new expansion out, the revenue after was higher than before the release until Q4 of 2018. That's when it sunk back to the pre-PoF levels and has now gone down to the lowest quarter revenue in GW2 history.

This is the absolute lowest it's been and I don't think that Sagas are going to turn the trend around. Regardless of how successful or not an expansion is, one thing that it does is completely change the paradigm of the game. People (myself included initially) might have hated the HoT maps but the gliding was most welcome and masteries really added something to the game overall. PoF added mounts which was a big change in how you play the game.

And this is what GW2 is missing currently. The game only has more of the same on offer now. That doesn't mean it's all bad. I enjoy the new map for example but then I am partial to snowy landscapes. But I digress... I'm done with the masteries as of today. Did the light puzzles and all that and well I'm done with the Saga. But the rest of the game is still just what it is. Nothing changes so how I look at the game doesn't really change.

Expansions are disruptive and in a big way. Games like this need this to keep the momentum going, to keep the game fresh. That's also one reason why PoF needed to be different other than learning from mistakes: the game needs to be changed up from time to time in a way that it makes the game feel fresh again. A lot of people don't have the stomach for more of the same year after year.

I reckon there is sort of a solid core of players that will stay no matter what but that group isn't that big and well, it's hard to say at which point the revenue becomes too low for them to be profitable. They're down to just over 3 million a month with this latest result and it's going to be interesting to see whether that's where it levels off or if it's going down even further. I mean there is always a possibility that things get better again but if you go by their financial years, then 2019 was indeed the absolute lowest year. And the interesting thing is that we can compare 2018 and 2019 in their reports quite well because they both came after the PoF spike. And so both those years had no expansion in them but 2018 did have an expansion just before it. The difference is that in 2019 they did about 27% less in revenue than in 2018. I suppose it's good that they had to cut 35% of their staff last year I suppose, though I certainly didn't wish that on them.

My point is and has been that expansions not only add new content but rather disrupt the game in a way that it refreshes the game and makes it feel different. Both HoT and PoF did that. That does add to the overall variety and it does give the game a longer breath for more players. PoF also managed to raise the quarterly revenue for at least a year, but with another expansion on the horizon, the game just brings more of the same and people are losing interest. I fear that without such a disruption the downward trend may not be over yet. Before HoT there was a massive overhaul of the trait system and all that. That was also a disruption. So it doesn't have to be an expansion per sé but I'm not sure I share your optimism for this game if there really are no expansions coming anymore.

Still, that might be good enough for you as a player. For me it's less exciting. I don't mind coming back from time to time and see what's new but I also lose interest quite quickly again. It also means that I don't stay and play but just come in from time to time. And that also means a lot fewer sales opportunities. And that's where it costs them revenue, at least in my case. They did good on the new Jora costume though, so I bought that. Now I'm done again though and it may be months before I come back and spend again. And I guess I suspect that I'm not an exceptional case.

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@Gehenna.3625 said:In fact PoF was a success and turned the trend around and after the two sales quarters of having a new expansion out, the revenue after was higher than before the release until Q4 of 2018.Might be more of a success due to the introduction of mounts than any other content released in PoF. A new expansion won't offer such a radical, game-changing feature and would not share the same level of success, IMO.

@"arkinia.6952" said:Offer a subscription as an option.You can already do this. Spend $20/mo on gems and there is your subscription. Optional for you and not mandatory for everyone else. The whole "optional subscription" idea is tiresome.

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This chart explains so much. The recent drop in revenue is startling and saddening, to be sure, but I'm flabbergasted to see that GW2 generates only 3% of the revenue that mobile games do. Without being able to dig into the numbers, it looks like most of their PC revenue might arise from Asia. Looking at those figures, it seems pretty obvious that NC Soft would be silly to focus resources on GW2. This is a sad picture of what the future holds for those of us who love the game.

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@Margol.3267 said:Without expansion this game future doesn't look good. Cantha!

I really can't be arsed to go dig up numbers for you but there was a sharp decline in revenue for MMOs across the board at the same time. People play games on their phones now. Figure it out.

For NCSoft themselves: Only their mobile and Lineage games are doing well, and Lineage II's last expansion was in 2017. An expansion isn't going to do anything beyond a short spike from lapsed players and Anet knows it. They're right to not gamble it all on a big release. Especially a big release that focuses on something that only appeals to nostalgic GW1 players like Cantha.

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decided to play classic of that other game when prelude dropped and only recently came back to knock the lw out and...i did it in one night. i was like, really? all this time spent and this is what they come up with? this isn't expansion level content at all, i am sorry. this game needs a REAL expansion and not this cheaply made, throw away direction they are going. meh. also, i am tired of anet leaving a trail of dead maps: they go to great lengths to nerf/encourage people to not replay stuff and that sucks imo. at this point, i can't help but think gw2 is soon to be put on life support thus, why would i spend money on gems on a soon to be dead game? bah.

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