Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Including Strike Mission Achievements as a Required Part of the Zone Meta


Recommended Posts

@Randulf.7614 said:

@"IndigoSundown.5419" said:I doubt losing players over this either way is going to break the game. However, GW2 has already bled players aplenty, and will sooner or later reach a point where such losses
will be
telling. It's a pity ANet feels the need to risk losing some of one demographic to try to keep the tattered remnants of another. Taking that risk is, to me, a bad sign.

I don't think it will have any noticeable effect on the population at all. I think any talk of leaving over a meta is a bit silly to be honest. if people want to do that, then that's up to them, but a single stretch of achievement which blocks nothing more than an emote and a few AP, is not something to be overly concerned about and I don't think the majority of players will care or even register a problem here at all.

MMO's incorporate lots of different aspects and encouraging players to try different things in it is an extremely sound business approach. The game is unlikely to survive if it keeps segregating communities, so it has to try and encourage players to play together in as much content as possible. And this isn't really new. Anet has been doing this in different ways with different modes.

There's a lot of problems right now in the game from the deteriation of the story, the weakened map design, the poor quality meta/world boss designs (drakkar included), but the bringing together of communities is something I have long wanted them find solutions for. This attitude of "I am a casual therefore don't force me to do something else" is not healthy for an MMO game at all. I would think Anet recognise that too.

People thought the same thing about HOT and it cost this game. You might not believe it, but I do. The problem is the playerbase is getting older, not younger. The age of the average gamer is not looking to get into raids in the first place, which was appearantly the reason this change was brought it. To "encourage' people to get into raids. Having already left a game because I didn't want to be encouraged to get into raids, I'm probably more sensitive to this than I should be, but raids affected the rest of PvE, partically after a dev said they weren't certain of the futures of raid because it was only done by a small percentage of the playerbase...it just seems a bad decision to me and again, one that affects my enjoyment of the game.

You may think it won't cause issues, but I suspect it will. I guess we'll find out when Anet reacts, by either doing nothing or changing things moving forward.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 537
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Only their metrics will ever really tell that though.

Their aim is bridge the gap between those who raid and those who don't. They need to do things like this to at least try and make that work. Even if it fails. But unless they commit, then they will never know. Anet are generally pretty bad at following through on things so I am pleased to see them go all in on this as best they can.

There will be people will get annoyed by it, but I don't think the vast majority ultimately care. Just like the vast majority probably don't have the grievances that many of us on these forums. They just get on with it because the game asks them to - and I suspect that is just fine for most players. I can bang on about Drakkar devolving back to the dull zergfests of old which ignore years of constructive feedback which has kittened me right off, but it's clear people are just getting on and playing it. I don't think adding in a bit of instanced content is going to do much damage to the population.

I also don't think anything has changed on a fundamental level. I think if anything the way things started off with dungeons and shortly after fractals and players were more conjoined. It was the way raids were implemented that splintered things in probably the strongest way. It feels like they are trying to get back to way things were by building bridges into content again.

The more they make things like meta one dimensional in their approach, the more they continue to fracture the community in my opinion.

Even if you don't agree, GW2 is an incredibly varied playerbase and I think trying to separate what players may or might like in the pve environment is probably a headache for the design team. There will always be something that will annoy players. Better to bung it all in and give players all sorts of different things to do. I find that a more positive approach personally.

We have all the metrics from 2015 that we need. The raid population is small, as mentioned by Andrew Gray, and that means the player base has spoken on the matter... The majority do not want raid type content in their currents forms, and it was a massive oversight to not include things like difficulty scaling in the first place.

We have no metrics. Only Anet have metrics. Whether they show the strategy is working, they have yet to reveal and perhaps it is too soon because the entire process isn't complete yet since more Strikes are to come (and if my understanding is right, they are going to be harder/more complex)

The raid population is small. They want to change that. The feedback they have is that raids are too hard or that players want to do them but feel left out by a perception of elitism. ANet are clearly trying to bring the two groups back together. Even trying to bring your communities together I think is a very sound strategy for a multi player game.

I can't say it will def work, but I agree with the way they are trying. You are correct about difficulty scaling and this their more innovative way of doing that - just a lot later than perhaps it should have been

We have 5 years of the majority of players saying they do not want to be forced into raids or forced into raid content, and that was clarified by Andrew Gray.

Did he say players do not want to be forced into it though? Or that it was too difficult for them and there was no bridge for that

@"Fire Attunement.9835" said:We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there >isn't anything to help players work their way up.

That suggests players do want to do raids, but there obstacles players want removing.

I am willing to retract that if I have missed a statement somewhere else

These “stepping stone” will not make raids magically better, not will they finally attract a larger audience. And by forcing raid type content to complete a new zone will only serve to alienate players from that content and the game itself.

Again, the majority hate/dislike/don’t wanna do raids in GW2 period. That is a fact. These strike missions will do nothing to change that.

And you could be spot on. Or you could be wrong. There is no fact here yet because what they are trying to do isn't complete. For all we know, it could actually be working according to their metrics. Or it could be failing miserably. I don't know. You don't know.What we do know is what ANet have gathered feedback about the opinion on raids and that seemingly is players want the obstacles removed and a smoother transition, not that they don't want them at all. Not one of us are better positioned to overturn that feedback.

I guess we can refer back to this in a few months and see if the attempt as indeed successful or not.

But going right the way back to the OP's original concerns. I support what they are doing and have no issues with them continuing to add lots of varied content to the meta achievement. I think such things fit nicely there.

This is the opening sentence in the OP... " For the first time ever, in order to get a zone meta achievement, people are required to get achievements from ten man instanced content."

Forcing players to do raid type content, when the devs full well know that the majority hate said content... and 5 years later the result of raids is... “the small audience they attract”... isn't going to make players happy. We don't need any metrics to know that forcing players to do what they don't want to do is BAD.

As I said above - the feedback that Anet have is that players appear to want to do it, they just find obstacles to doing it and have asked for those obstacles to be removed. The desire seems to exist based on that reply from Andrew Gray. That is why they are pushing these strikes so hard. Any statement from us otherwise flows against the feedback they have gathered.

The question and subject of this thread isn't whether players want to raid. It's whether pushing the strikes as a part of the meta is the right strategy. I am not dismissing the OP's feedback, I just disagree with it because I like how they have implemented it

That's great, you are entitled to feel the way you feel. Just be aware that forcing strike missions on players will backfire and not grow raid participation, and we don't need metrics on what we already know from past experiences.

Edit- And out of curiosity, do you run spvp MATs or seasons?

@Randulf.7614 said:Only their metrics will ever really tell that though.

Their aim is bridge the gap between those who raid and those who don't. They need to do things like this to at least try and make that work. Even if it fails. But unless they commit, then they will never know. Anet are generally pretty bad at following through on things so I am pleased to see them go all in on this as best they can.

There will be people will get annoyed by it, but I don't think the vast majority ultimately care. Just like the vast majority probably don't have the grievances that many of us on these forums. They just get on with it because the game asks them to - and I suspect that is just fine for most players. I can bang on about Drakkar devolving back to the dull zergfests of old which ignore years of constructive feedback which has kittened me right off, but it's clear people are just getting on and playing it. I don't think adding in a bit of instanced content is going to do much damage to the population.

I also don't think anything has changed on a fundamental level. I think if anything the way things started off with dungeons and shortly after fractals and players were more conjoined. It was the way raids were implemented that splintered things in probably the strongest way. It feels like they are trying to get back to way things were by building bridges into content again.

The more they make things like meta one dimensional in their approach, the more they continue to fracture the community in my opinion.

Even if you don't agree, GW2 is an incredibly varied playerbase and I think trying to separate what players may or might like in the pve environment is probably a headache for the design team. There will always be something that will annoy players. Better to bung it all in and give players all sorts of different things to do. I find that a more positive approach personally.

We have all the metrics from 2015 that we need. The raid population is small, as mentioned by Andrew Gray, and that means the player base has spoken on the matter... The majority do not want raid type content in their currents forms, and it was a massive oversight to not include things like difficulty scaling in the first place.

We have no metrics. Only Anet have metrics. Whether they show the strategy is working, they have yet to reveal and perhaps it is too soon because the entire process isn't complete yet since more Strikes are to come (and if my understanding is right, they are going to be harder/more complex)

The raid population is small. They want to change that. The feedback they have is that raids are too hard or that players want to do them but feel left out by a perception of elitism. ANet are clearly trying to bring the two groups back together. Even trying to bring your communities together I think is a very sound strategy for a multi player game.

I can't say it will def work, but I agree with the way they are trying. You are correct about difficulty scaling and this their more innovative way of doing that - just a lot later than perhaps it should have been

We have 5 years of the majority of players saying they do not want to be forced into raids or forced into raid content, and that was clarified by Andrew Gray.

Did he say players do not want to be forced into it though? Or that it was too difficult for them and there was no bridge for that

@"Fire Attunement.9835" said:We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there >isn't anything to help players work their way up.

That suggests players do want to do raids, but there obstacles players want removing.

I am willing to retract that if I have missed a statement somewhere else

These “stepping stone” will not make raids magically better, not will they finally attract a larger audience. And by forcing raid type content to complete a new zone will only serve to alienate players from that content and the game itself.

Again, the majority hate/dislike/don’t wanna do raids in GW2 period. That is a fact. These strike missions will do nothing to change that.

And you could be spot on. Or you could be wrong. There is no fact here yet because what they are trying to do isn't complete. For all we know, it could actually be working according to their metrics. Or it could be failing miserably. I don't know. You don't know.What we do know is what ANet have gathered feedback about the opinion on raids and that seemingly is players want the obstacles removed and a smoother transition, not that they don't want them at all. Not one of us are better positioned to overturn that feedback.

I guess we can refer back to this in a few months and see if the attempt as indeed successful or not.

But going right the way back to the OP's original concerns. I support what they are doing and have no issues with them continuing to add lots of varied content to the meta achievement. I think such things fit nicely there.

This is the opening sentence in the OP... " For the first time ever, in order to get a zone meta achievement, people are required to get achievements from ten man instanced content."

Forcing players to do raid type content, when the devs full well know that the majority hate said content... and 5 years later the result of raids is... “the small audience they attract”... isn't going to make players happy. We don't need any metrics to know that forcing players to do what they don't want to do is BAD.

As I said above - the feedback that Anet have is that players appear to want to do it, they just find obstacles to doing it and have asked for those obstacles to be removed. The desire seems to exist based on that reply from Andrew Gray. That is why they are pushing these strikes so hard. Any statement from us otherwise flows against the feedback they have gathered.

The question and subject of this thread isn't whether players want to raid. It's whether pushing the strikes as a part of the meta is the right strategy. I am not dismissing the OP's feedback, I just disagree with it because I like how they have implemented it

That's great, you are entitled to feel the way you feel. Just be aware that forcing strike missions on players will backfire and not grow raid participation, and we don't need metrics on what we already know from past experiences.

Edit- And out of curiosity, do you run spvp MATs or seasons?

I can't see it backfire. Before there were raiders and non-raiders only.Now there are raiders and non-raiders and players who do strikes but not raids.I'm sure some who never raided will try raids after strikes but someone who won't even do strikes when some are easy were never gonna do raids anyway.The only question is will players quit because they couldn't do one meta because they refuse to do strikes I mean maybe but doubt it will be a mass exodus. Now if they continue next meta with and added strikes being even harder it could chase some away

I don't think players quit for one reason. But players accumulate reasons until they quit. For me this is a big one. I really don't want to play and I'm not going to play as much. I'm certainly not feeling like spending money in the gem store. I might not quit but it will affect my hours in game.

And that's your choice. I avoided jumping puzzles forever then over time I did almost them all. Still not a fan. The light puzzles I had no interest but this meta kinda made me do um. Stikes are similar. I don't look forward to new ones but It's just a world boss with a 10 player cap. You join and even if you suck most times the 8 left alive kill it esp groth kodan and fraenir. It's not like after I'm like omg that Vayne dude sucked and send you whispers. You try if you like it great if not do the bare minimum beat um each once or ignore a meta which isn't the end of the world. Up to you but I say at least try.

Sure it's my choice. I agree. But it's not JUST my choice. It's everyone's choice. And if enough people are affected by that choice it will affect the game negatively. There's one group of players less pissed off than other players. I suggest it's probably not the group of players you'd want to alienate. Just my thought process. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe none of the casual players left in the game care enough about the meta to be frustrated...but I don't think that's the case.

Saying this is my choice is absolutely true. Suggesting that I"m some how alone in my feelings on this probably isn't. Whether this is a good idea or not will depend on the size of that demographic.

I never said you were the only one affected. You don't like groups. I even said most likely even the players who don't do well in strikes aren't noticed/remembered and later on you write it's harder to be invisible in strikes which tells me that's what you are worried about. Being forced to join a group like it's going to out you to the world if you do bad. Do I even scroll over the names in a strike um no. You are just a lil icon I will never remember your class/spec name etc.The thing is I hate replaying story. Sometimes anet puts hard story achievement in as req for the meta. Like Dragonfall I don't have meta cause no interest in weak point nonsense but I need that. Why didn't anet give the kill 1000 mobs as progress to it? I would of finished those. Or bitterfrost. No way in hell I'm going thru that long story stop 5 times kill 100 mobs so I can hope not to get hit and you can cheese it too by letting npcs do it and afk for 25m. Some people hate jumping puzzles and sometimes that's included. So if you remove everything everyone thinks shouldn't be in a meta we are all let with do easy story ones do events 20 times etc. Yeah the meta will be done so fast if anet caters to everyone. I bet anet caves too and removes this. Leave it undone instead of letting it affect you and you say I'll leave the game. Or leave the game. Or adjust and try. Def don't ever try FF14 as every raid/dungeon and their harder version or strikes is req to do story/unlock new areas.

Nah, if this doesn't work out, it'll be my last MMO. The potential for MMORPGs is there, but the evolution of them has left, in my opinion, much to be desired. I seriously doubt any MMO will be worth the effort, after my time here.

This has nothing to do to catering to everyone. This has to do with changing something in a way that I find annoying. The anonymous comment wasn't about me, btw, I don't really care if people know who I am or not, it was for other guildies, who aren't such great players perhaps who don't want to get noticed or only play with guildies who know them. I'm sorta that way too. I really don't pug anything. I hang with my mates.

And that's the thing. This entire thing is just unnecessary in my mind and it takes away my personal end game. It may not be your end game and that's fine, but it's mine and it's other people as well. If enough people feel this way Anet will see it in the numbers and they'll be changes appropriately. If enough people don't feel this way they'll continue what they're doing without us. Either way it'll be fine. But yeah, this is a deal breaker for me.

I tried to explain there's stuff I don't like in meta's to but this is only what annoys you I see that now. Ok, so this was some long emo goodbye GW2 thread then. So goodbye and gl

You probably should reread what I said. I said if this is the future of the game, it's going there without me. I'm not leaving the game at this point. I'm not twelve. I'm saying if this is the road the game is going down, it will do so without me, because it's a deal breaker. That's all.

It's a change to the game that I don't endorse and I don't like and I feel strongly about. Shrugs.

Then stop saying things like I'll quit or i'll never try another mmo if this one doesn't work out and I won't see you as some 12 year old and actually see that as many that don't like strikes added to meta many don't like to replay story just to get achieves tied to meta and if you fail you have to start from beginning and not at boss etc and many don't like lil puzzles but we all aren't on here i'm so upset ima quit if anet doesn't address this in the future. And I actually agree if next meta even harder strikes are required it will be a problem but if you sit here and say you can't in no way get 3 kodan 3 fraenir and spam kodan farm group to get sanctifier done i'm like come on. Jormag boneskinner eff them but you don't need them

It's the slippery slope I'm worried about here. If this trend continues, it's going to make my progress in the game all but stop. That's enough reason for me to express concern.

And you have and we hear you and I bet anet hears you and others like you next map or there will be way more voices if harder strikes are required. I do think you are overreacting and I bet you even have meta done and think you are being the voice of others.

Overreacting is my superpower.

Edit: I don't have the meta even half done. I stopped working on it the moment I realized I had to do stuff I wasn't interested in doing. I've barely been to that zone compared to past zones.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am curious. This isn't by any means the first time they have done this.

Act 4 of HoT requires Migraine as part of the achievement meta - a hard multi player instanced version of the story. If anything requiring more commitment than a strike mission. WHy is that OK and not a precedent for scaring off the population.

A lot season story ap do seem to need multiple players for the time limits and requirements as well, esp in LS4

If memory serves, LS1 required Twilight Arbour. I believe the other 2 dungeons at the time were also required for the episode meta

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Randulf.7614 said:Only their metrics will ever really tell that though.

Their aim is bridge the gap between those who raid and those who don't. They need to do things like this to at least try and make that work. Even if it fails. But unless they commit, then they will never know. Anet are generally pretty bad at following through on things so I am pleased to see them go all in on this as best they can.

There will be people will get annoyed by it, but I don't think the vast majority ultimately care. Just like the vast majority probably don't have the grievances that many of us on these forums. They just get on with it because the game asks them to - and I suspect that is just fine for most players. I can bang on about Drakkar devolving back to the dull zergfests of old which ignore years of constructive feedback which has kittened me right off, but it's clear people are just getting on and playing it. I don't think adding in a bit of instanced content is going to do much damage to the population.

I also don't think anything has changed on a fundamental level. I think if anything the way things started off with dungeons and shortly after fractals and players were more conjoined. It was the way raids were implemented that splintered things in probably the strongest way. It feels like they are trying to get back to way things were by building bridges into content again.

The more they make things like meta one dimensional in their approach, the more they continue to fracture the community in my opinion.

Even if you don't agree, GW2 is an incredibly varied playerbase and I think trying to separate what players may or might like in the pve environment is probably a headache for the design team. There will always be something that will annoy players. Better to bung it all in and give players all sorts of different things to do. I find that a more positive approach personally.

We have all the metrics from 2015 that we need. The raid population is small, as mentioned by Andrew Gray, and that means the player base has spoken on the matter... The majority do not want raid type content in their currents forms, and it was a massive oversight to not include things like difficulty scaling in the first place.

We have no metrics. Only Anet have metrics. Whether they show the strategy is working, they have yet to reveal and perhaps it is too soon because the entire process isn't complete yet since more Strikes are to come (and if my understanding is right, they are going to be harder/more complex)

The raid population is small. They want to change that. The feedback they have is that raids are too hard or that players want to do them but feel left out by a perception of elitism. ANet are clearly trying to bring the two groups back together. Even trying to bring your communities together I think is a very sound strategy for a multi player game.

I can't say it will def work, but I agree with the way they are trying. You are correct about difficulty scaling and this their more innovative way of doing that - just a lot later than perhaps it should have been

We have 5 years of the majority of players saying they do not want to be forced into raids or forced into raid content, and that was clarified by Andrew Gray.

Did he say players do not want to be forced into it though? Or that it was too difficult for them and there was no bridge for that

@"Fire Attunement.9835" said:We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there >isn't anything to help players work their way up.

That suggests players do want to do raids, but there obstacles players want removing.

I am willing to retract that if I have missed a statement somewhere else

These “stepping stone” will not make raids magically better, not will they finally attract a larger audience. And by forcing raid type content to complete a new zone will only serve to alienate players from that content and the game itself.

Again, the majority hate/dislike/don’t wanna do raids in GW2 period. That is a fact. These strike missions will do nothing to change that.

And you could be spot on. Or you could be wrong. There is no fact here yet because what they are trying to do isn't complete. For all we know, it could actually be working according to their metrics. Or it could be failing miserably. I don't know. You don't know.What we do know is what ANet have gathered feedback about the opinion on raids and that seemingly is players want the obstacles removed and a smoother transition, not that they don't want them at all. Not one of us are better positioned to overturn that feedback.

I guess we can refer back to this in a few months and see if the attempt as indeed successful or not.

But going right the way back to the OP's original concerns. I support what they are doing and have no issues with them continuing to add lots of varied content to the meta achievement. I think such things fit nicely there.

This is the opening sentence in the OP... " For the first time ever, in order to get a zone meta achievement, people are required to get achievements from ten man instanced content."

Forcing players to do raid type content, when the devs full well know that the majority hate said content... and 5 years later the result of raids is... “the small audience they attract”... isn't going to make players happy. We don't need any metrics to know that forcing players to do what they don't want to do is BAD.

As I said above - the feedback that Anet have is that players appear to want to do it, they just find obstacles to doing it and have asked for those obstacles to be removed. The desire seems to exist based on that reply from Andrew Gray. That is why they are pushing these strikes so hard. Any statement from us otherwise flows against the feedback they have gathered.

The question and subject of this thread isn't whether players want to raid. It's whether pushing the strikes as a part of the meta is the right strategy. I am not dismissing the OP's feedback, I just disagree with it because I like how they have implemented it

That's great, you are entitled to feel the way you feel. Just be aware that forcing strike missions on players will backfire and not grow raid participation, and we don't need metrics on what we already know from past experiences.

Edit- And out of curiosity, do you run spvp MATs or seasons?

@Randulf.7614 said:Only their metrics will ever really tell that though.

Their aim is bridge the gap between those who raid and those who don't. They need to do things like this to at least try and make that work. Even if it fails. But unless they commit, then they will never know. Anet are generally pretty bad at following through on things so I am pleased to see them go all in on this as best they can.

There will be people will get annoyed by it, but I don't think the vast majority ultimately care. Just like the vast majority probably don't have the grievances that many of us on these forums. They just get on with it because the game asks them to - and I suspect that is just fine for most players. I can bang on about Drakkar devolving back to the dull zergfests of old which ignore years of constructive feedback which has kittened me right off, but it's clear people are just getting on and playing it. I don't think adding in a bit of instanced content is going to do much damage to the population.

I also don't think anything has changed on a fundamental level. I think if anything the way things started off with dungeons and shortly after fractals and players were more conjoined. It was the way raids were implemented that splintered things in probably the strongest way. It feels like they are trying to get back to way things were by building bridges into content again.

The more they make things like meta one dimensional in their approach, the more they continue to fracture the community in my opinion.

Even if you don't agree, GW2 is an incredibly varied playerbase and I think trying to separate what players may or might like in the pve environment is probably a headache for the design team. There will always be something that will annoy players. Better to bung it all in and give players all sorts of different things to do. I find that a more positive approach personally.

We have all the metrics from 2015 that we need. The raid population is small, as mentioned by Andrew Gray, and that means the player base has spoken on the matter... The majority do not want raid type content in their currents forms, and it was a massive oversight to not include things like difficulty scaling in the first place.

We have no metrics. Only Anet have metrics. Whether they show the strategy is working, they have yet to reveal and perhaps it is too soon because the entire process isn't complete yet since more Strikes are to come (and if my understanding is right, they are going to be harder/more complex)

The raid population is small. They want to change that. The feedback they have is that raids are too hard or that players want to do them but feel left out by a perception of elitism. ANet are clearly trying to bring the two groups back together. Even trying to bring your communities together I think is a very sound strategy for a multi player game.

I can't say it will def work, but I agree with the way they are trying. You are correct about difficulty scaling and this their more innovative way of doing that - just a lot later than perhaps it should have been

We have 5 years of the majority of players saying they do not want to be forced into raids or forced into raid content, and that was clarified by Andrew Gray.

Did he say players do not want to be forced into it though? Or that it was too difficult for them and there was no bridge for that

@"Fire Attunement.9835" said:We gathered data to determine why, and the most common answer was that there is a giant leap in difficulty between raids and other endgame content, and there >isn't anything to help players work their way up.

That suggests players do want to do raids, but there obstacles players want removing.

I am willing to retract that if I have missed a statement somewhere else

These “stepping stone” will not make raids magically better, not will they finally attract a larger audience. And by forcing raid type content to complete a new zone will only serve to alienate players from that content and the game itself.

Again, the majority hate/dislike/don’t wanna do raids in GW2 period. That is a fact. These strike missions will do nothing to change that.

And you could be spot on. Or you could be wrong. There is no fact here yet because what they are trying to do isn't complete. For all we know, it could actually be working according to their metrics. Or it could be failing miserably. I don't know. You don't know.What we do know is what ANet have gathered feedback about the opinion on raids and that seemingly is players want the obstacles removed and a smoother transition, not that they don't want them at all. Not one of us are better positioned to overturn that feedback.

I guess we can refer back to this in a few months and see if the attempt as indeed successful or not.

But going right the way back to the OP's original concerns. I support what they are doing and have no issues with them continuing to add lots of varied content to the meta achievement. I think such things fit nicely there.

This is the opening sentence in the OP... " For the first time ever, in order to get a zone meta achievement, people are required to get achievements from ten man instanced content."

Forcing players to do raid type content, when the devs full well know that the majority hate said content... and 5 years later the result of raids is... “the small audience they attract”... isn't going to make players happy. We don't need any metrics to know that forcing players to do what they don't want to do is BAD.

As I said above - the feedback that Anet have is that players appear to want to do it, they just find obstacles to doing it and have asked for those obstacles to be removed. The desire seems to exist based on that reply from Andrew Gray. That is why they are pushing these strikes so hard. Any statement from us otherwise flows against the feedback they have gathered.

The question and subject of this thread isn't whether players want to raid. It's whether pushing the strikes as a part of the meta is the right strategy. I am not dismissing the OP's feedback, I just disagree with it because I like how they have implemented it

That's great, you are entitled to feel the way you feel. Just be aware that forcing strike missions on players will backfire and not grow raid participation, and we don't need metrics on what we already know from past experiences.

Edit- And out of curiosity, do you run spvp MATs or seasons?

I can't see it backfire. Before there were raiders and non-raiders only.Now there are raiders and non-raiders and players who do strikes but not raids.I'm sure some who never raided will try raids after strikes but someone who won't even do strikes when some are easy were never gonna do raids anyway.The only question is will players quit because they couldn't do one meta because they refuse to do strikes I mean maybe but doubt it will be a mass exodus. Now if they continue next meta with and added strikes being even harder it could chase some away

I don't think players quit for one reason. But players accumulate reasons until they quit. For me this is a big one. I really don't want to play and I'm not going to play as much. I'm certainly not feeling like spending money in the gem store. I might not quit but it will affect my hours in game.

And that's your choice. I avoided jumping puzzles forever then over time I did almost them all. Still not a fan. The light puzzles I had no interest but this meta kinda made me do um. Stikes are similar. I don't look forward to new ones but It's just a world boss with a 10 player cap. You join and even if you suck most times the 8 left alive kill it esp groth kodan and fraenir. It's not like after I'm like omg that Vayne dude sucked and send you whispers. You try if you like it great if not do the bare minimum beat um each once or ignore a meta which isn't the end of the world. Up to you but I say at least try.

Sure it's my choice. I agree. But it's not JUST my choice. It's everyone's choice. And if enough people are affected by that choice it will affect the game negatively. There's one group of players less pissed off than other players. I suggest it's probably not the group of players you'd want to alienate. Just my thought process. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe none of the casual players left in the game care enough about the meta to be frustrated...but I don't think that's the case.

Saying this is my choice is absolutely true. Suggesting that I"m some how alone in my feelings on this probably isn't. Whether this is a good idea or not will depend on the size of that demographic.

I never said you were the only one affected. You don't like groups. I even said most likely even the players who don't do well in strikes aren't noticed/remembered and later on you write it's harder to be invisible in strikes which tells me that's what you are worried about. Being forced to join a group like it's going to out you to the world if you do bad. Do I even scroll over the names in a strike um no. You are just a lil icon I will never remember your class/spec name etc.The thing is I hate replaying story. Sometimes anet puts hard story achievement in as req for the meta. Like Dragonfall I don't have meta cause no interest in weak point nonsense but I need that. Why didn't anet give the kill 1000 mobs as progress to it? I would of finished those. Or bitterfrost. No way in hell I'm going thru that long story stop 5 times kill 100 mobs so I can hope not to get hit and you can cheese it too by letting npcs do it and afk for 25m. Some people hate jumping puzzles and sometimes that's included. So if you remove everything everyone thinks shouldn't be in a meta we are all let with do easy story ones do events 20 times etc. Yeah the meta will be done so fast if anet caters to everyone. I bet anet caves too and removes this. Leave it undone instead of letting it affect you and you say I'll leave the game. Or leave the game. Or adjust and try. Def don't ever try FF14 as every raid/dungeon and their harder version or strikes is req to do story/unlock new areas.

Nah, if this doesn't work out, it'll be my last MMO. The potential for MMORPGs is there, but the evolution of them has left, in my opinion, much to be desired. I seriously doubt any MMO will be worth the effort, after my time here.

This has nothing to do to catering to everyone. This has to do with changing something in a way that I find annoying. The anonymous comment wasn't about me, btw, I don't really care if people know who I am or not, it was for other guildies, who aren't such great players perhaps who don't want to get noticed or only play with guildies who know them. I'm sorta that way too. I really don't pug anything. I hang with my mates.

And that's the thing. This entire thing is just unnecessary in my mind and it takes away my personal end game. It may not be your end game and that's fine, but it's mine and it's other people as well. If enough people feel this way Anet will see it in the numbers and they'll be changes appropriately. If enough people don't feel this way they'll continue what they're doing without us. Either way it'll be fine. But yeah, this is a deal breaker for me.

I tried to explain there's stuff I don't like in meta's to but this is only what annoys you I see that now. Ok, so this was some long emo goodbye GW2 thread then. So goodbye and gl

You probably should reread what I said. I said if this is the future of the game, it's going there without me. I'm not leaving the game at this point. I'm not twelve. I'm saying if this is the road the game is going down, it will do so without me, because it's a deal breaker. That's all.

It's a change to the game that I don't endorse and I don't like and I feel strongly about. Shrugs.

Then stop saying things like I'll quit or i'll never try another mmo if this one doesn't work out and I won't see you as some 12 year old and actually see that as many that don't like strikes added to meta many don't like to replay story just to get achieves tied to meta and if you fail you have to start from beginning and not at boss etc and many don't like lil puzzles but we all aren't on here i'm so upset ima quit if anet doesn't address this in the future. And I actually agree if next meta even harder strikes are required it will be a problem but if you sit here and say you can't in no way get 3 kodan 3 fraenir and spam kodan farm group to get sanctifier done i'm like come on. Jormag boneskinner eff them but you don't need them

It's the slippery slope I'm worried about here. If this trend continues, it's going to make my progress in the game all but stop. That's enough reason for me to express concern.

And you have and we hear you and I bet anet hears you and others like you next map or there will be way more voices if harder strikes are required. I do think you are overreacting and I bet you even have meta done and think you are being the voice of others.

Overreacting is my superpower.

And we thought you were meant to be the voice of reason and calm on these boards. I think too many battles have corrupted you to our side ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Randulf.7614 said:I am curious. This isn't by any means the first time they have done this.

Act 4 of HoT requires Migraine as part of the achievement meta - a hard multi player instanced version of the story. If anything requiring more commitment than a strike mission. WHy is that OK and not a precedent for scaring off the population.

A lot season story ap do seem to need multiple players for the time limits and requirements as well, esp in LS4

If memory serves, LS1 required Twilight Arbour. I believe the other 2 dungeons at the time were also required for the episode meta

Twilight Arbor achievements were a standalone dungeon category which I have absolutely no problems with. It's like PvP. It's seperated from casual open world PvE. Same with fractured which was a fractal meta achievement. Again no problem.

I absolutely despised the migraine achievement. I didn't think it fit with everything else. I got it as a one off and, if you notice, when POF launched it had nothing like that. Because I guarantee you most of the playerbase never touched that achievement and got frustrated. I think HoT cost this game a lot of players. I can't prove this but if it didn't, I don't think Anet would have used a quarterly update to make it more friendly for solo and casual players. They decoupled day from night. Changed some champs to vets. Thinned out some areas that had a lot of foes. They absolutely had to go back and make HoT easier, because people were on the warpath. That achievement wasn't touched, but believe me, it wasn't well done either. And it wasn't repeated.

What I'm seeing here is the possible beginning of a trend. They said strike missions would get harder to prepare people for raids, which was fine by me, as long as they were kept out of the meta. They're not and that becomes a problem for me.

You want hard instanced content in the game....keep it seperate or give people other options. A better way to train people for raids is to use actual raid bosses in practice arenas, or difficulty scales on the raids themselves.

My objection isn't to difficult instanced content. It's when an attempt to get people to do that content changes the game for people like me. I think it's a fair enough complaint. Again this is only one time..but...I'm fairly concerned that if this goes unmarked, it'll get worse.

Edit: According to GW 2 efficiency this is the percentage of people who finished migraine:

22,050 of 227,184 (9.706%)

And that wouldn't include the more casual folks who don't use effiiciency. For a meta, that's got to frustrate a fair few players.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the game is going down a road where you don't like, well you now see how most WvW, PvP and hardcore PvE player feels for some time :lol:

Having the achievement locked behind 10 man instanced content only increases the reward's value, which is totally fine. Means you jumped over your own shadow and actually achieved something which is fine for MMO RPGs, things shouldn't be handed over for doing minuscule things. Many people want Dhuum Helmet. Oopsie you have to give some effort, search for some raid trainers and adapt. If you don't like that type of content, then I will pull out the usual saying of the casuals: "then this game is simply not for you." xD

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Bosanac.3658" said:If the game is going down a road where you don't like, well you now see how most WvW, PvP and hardcore PvE player feels for some time :lol:

Having the achievement locked behind 10 man instanced content only increases the reward's value, which is totally fine. Means you jumped over your own shadow and actually achieved something which is fine for MMO RPGs, things shouldn't be handed over for doing minuscule things. Many people want Dhuum Helmet. Oopsie you have to give some effort, search for some raid trainers and adapt. If you don't like that type of content, then I will pull out the usual saying of the casuals: "then this game is simply not for you." xD

I stopped complaining about raid rewards pretty much ages ago. Yes there's stuff locked behind there I'll never get. But since I've been getting zone rewards all along and it's a fairly casual playerbase that's probably interested in them, why poke that percentage of the playerbase. It's not the reward that's the problem. It's that this was essentially the end game I was playing and now I probably won't be. Particularly if it escalates from here, which is my concern. If that percentage of the playerbase is big enough, and I don't know that it is, it could affect everything else in the game as well. I'm not so sure it adds enough to the game to justify the possible risk that's all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure how hard this idea would be to implement, for strike missions that have the good rewards drop once per day as they do now, but wheb you do it again with a completely new team or at least one new member that didn't do it that day, you get reward again. If this idea is horrible, anyways the idea is to somehow give good rewards players for creating groups and grabbing noobs, this would also work for fractals and raids.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the rewards don't matter then what is the issue? You get to play through the story, you get the usual mission rewards. Achievements are generally for the players who want more, and who want to "achieve" things, its literally in the name. ANET has started realizing that, and the majority of the playerbase doesn't even do achievements so almost no harm done.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"IndigoSundown.5419" said:I doubt losing players over this either way is going to break the game. However, GW2 has already bled players aplenty, and will sooner or later reach a point where such losses
will be
telling. It's a pity ANet feels the need to risk losing some of one demographic to try to keep the tattered remnants of another. Taking that risk is, to me, a bad sign.

I don't think it will have any noticeable effect on the population at all. I think any talk of leaving over a meta is a bit silly to be honest. if people want to do that, then that's up to them, but a single stretch of achievement which blocks nothing more than an emote and a few AP, is not something to be overly concerned about and I don't think the majority of players will care or even register a problem here at all.

MMO's incorporate lots of different aspects and encouraging players to try different things in it is an extremely sound business approach. The game is unlikely to survive if it keeps segregating communities, so it has to try and encourage players to play together in as much content as possible. And this isn't really new. Anet has been doing this in different ways with different modes.

There's a lot of problems right now in the game from the deteriation of the story, the weakened map design, the poor quality meta/world boss designs (drakkar included), but the bringing together of communities is something I have long wanted them find solutions for. This attitude of "I am a casual therefore don't force me to do something else" is not healthy for an MMO game at all. I would think Anet recognise that too.

People thought the same thing about HOT and it cost this game. You might not believe it, but I do.

Except HoT was an entire expansion and not a single achievement. That’s a very large difference.

The problem is the playerbase is getting older, not younger. The age of the average gamer is not looking to get into raids in the first place, which was appearantly the reason this change was brought it.

Do you have anything to backup the claim that age is a significant factor? People of all ages do raids in this game and others. Raids are not designed for strictly younger players.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Bosanac.3658" said:If the rewards don't matter then what is the issue? You get to play through the story, you get the usual mission rewards. Achievements are generally for the players who want more, and who want to "achieve" things, its literally in the name. ANET has started realizing that, and the majority of the playerbase doesn't even do achievements so almost no harm done.

I think you may be underestimating the number of people who play for achievements, as they were anyway. If that number falls off significantly with this change, then Anet will change this going forward. I have a guild full of casuals who pretty much play just to check off boxes. The open world/story stuff used to be their perview. This stuff could have been done without affected the existing system, with less risk that's all.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"IndigoSundown.5419" said:I doubt losing players over this either way is going to break the game. However, GW2 has already bled players aplenty, and will sooner or later reach a point where such losses
will be
telling. It's a pity ANet feels the need to risk losing some of one demographic to try to keep the tattered remnants of another. Taking that risk is, to me, a bad sign.

I don't think it will have any noticeable effect on the population at all. I think any talk of leaving over a meta is a bit silly to be honest. if people want to do that, then that's up to them, but a single stretch of achievement which blocks nothing more than an emote and a few AP, is not something to be overly concerned about and I don't think the majority of players will care or even register a problem here at all.

MMO's incorporate lots of different aspects and encouraging players to try different things in it is an extremely sound business approach. The game is unlikely to survive if it keeps segregating communities, so it has to try and encourage players to play together in as much content as possible. And this isn't really new. Anet has been doing this in different ways with different modes.

There's a lot of problems right now in the game from the deteriation of the story, the weakened map design, the poor quality meta/world boss designs (drakkar included), but the bringing together of communities is something I have long wanted them find solutions for. This attitude of "I am a casual therefore don't force me to do something else" is not healthy for an MMO game at all. I would think Anet recognise that too.

People thought the same thing about HOT and it cost this game. You might not believe it, but I do.

Except HoT was an entire expansion and not a single achievement. That’s a very large difference.

The problem is the playerbase is getting older, not younger. The age of the average gamer is not looking to get into raids in the first place, which was appearantly the reason this change was brought it.

Do you have anything to backup the claim that age is a significant factor? People of all ages do raids in this game and others.

Hot was an expansion. This is a meta achievement in a new Saga that sets the tone for what comes after. Do you suppose if Anet is trying to push raid participation up this will be the last time? If it continues, it's a problem. IF it's a one off it's not.

As for do I have proof. Nah. No proof.

But I know when I was younger I had infnite time for games and activities and as I got older I had kids and jobs and responsibilities and raiding requires a level of commitment. Seems to me that as the gaming population gets older, they're going to look for more activities that aren't necessarily going to have to be scheduled or organzied. I could be wrong, but the pick up and play aspect would seem to favor getting older. Just a guess. Annecdotally it seems to follow my experience. I know a whole lot of people who raided when they were younger, burned out on it and now play more casually, but of course that means nothing. It's just my personal experience.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Bosanac.3658" said:If the rewards don't matter then what is the issue? You get to play through the story, you get the usual mission rewards. Achievements are generally for the players who want more, and who want to "achieve" things, its literally in the name. ANET has started realizing that, and the majority of the playerbase doesn't even do achievements so almost no harm done.

I think you may be underestimating the number of people who play for achievements, as they were anyway. If that number falls off significantly with this change, then Anet will change this going forward. I have a guild full of casuals who pretty much play just to check off boxes. The open world/story stuff used to be their perview. This stuff could have been done without affected the existing system, with less risk that's all.

People who do achievements are well capable of taking on the Strike. The premise that "Everything that is required to fill the achievements bar has to be something I like" has a rather poor foundation. Like I said, "achievements" exist for a reason, to award players for doing more and to give more effort. Player number and percentage changing because of "harder achievements", which are purely optional, also doesn't sound presuasive nor well founded.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Vayne.8563 said:

@"IndigoSundown.5419" said:I doubt losing players over this either way is going to break the game. However, GW2 has already bled players aplenty, and will sooner or later reach a point where such losses
will be
telling. It's a pity ANet feels the need to risk losing some of one demographic to try to keep the tattered remnants of another. Taking that risk is, to me, a bad sign.

I don't think it will have any noticeable effect on the population at all. I think any talk of leaving over a meta is a bit silly to be honest. if people want to do that, then that's up to them, but a single stretch of achievement which blocks nothing more than an emote and a few AP, is not something to be overly concerned about and I don't think the majority of players will care or even register a problem here at all.

MMO's incorporate lots of different aspects and encouraging players to try different things in it is an extremely sound business approach. The game is unlikely to survive if it keeps segregating communities, so it has to try and encourage players to play together in as much content as possible. And this isn't really new. Anet has been doing this in different ways with different modes.

There's a lot of problems right now in the game from the deteriation of the story, the weakened map design, the poor quality meta/world boss designs (drakkar included), but the bringing together of communities is something I have long wanted them find solutions for. This attitude of "I am a casual therefore don't force me to do something else" is not healthy for an MMO game at all. I would think Anet recognise that too.

People thought the same thing about HOT and it cost this game. You might not believe it, but I do.

Except HoT was an entire expansion and not a single achievement. That’s a very large difference.

The problem is the playerbase is getting older, not younger. The age of the average gamer is not looking to get into raids in the first place, which was appearantly the reason this change was brought it.

Do you have anything to backup the claim that age is a significant factor? People of all ages do raids in this game and others.

Hot was an expansion. This is a meta achievement in a new Saga that sets the tone for what comes after. Do you suppose if Anet is trying to push raid participation up this will be the last time? If it continues, it's a problem. IF it's a one off it's not.

Yes. HoT was an expansion and this is a meta achievement. Kind of like what I said in my post so why repeat it?

They’re pushing strike mission content; not raid content. Strikes are not raids.

As for do I have proof. Nah. No proof.

But I know when I was younger I had infnite time for games and activities and as I got older I had kids and jobs and responsibilities and raiding requires a level of commitment. Seems to me that as the gaming population gets older, they're going to look for more activities that aren't necessarily going to have to be scheduled or organzied. I could be wrong, but the pick up and play aspect would seem to favor getting older. Just a guess. Annecdotally it seems to follow my experience. I know a whole lot of people who raided when they were younger, burned out on it and now play more casually, but of course that means nothing. It's just my personal experience.

Strikes are fairly casual as far as time commitment goes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Ayrilana and Bosanac.

Strike missions are a preparation for raids but nobody would have been complaining if they had said its a preparation for 10 man dungeons... Just the word "raid" alone seems to put ppl into defence mode and "I won't even try this". First of all the game is an mmo > multiplayer. This means the game aims you to play with a group of people. Either by tagging up in big zergs (worldboss, wvw, guild missions) or in smaller groups (guild missions, fractal/dungeon/strike/raid and casually doing any open world content varying from meta's till champions till just gathering together). If you want no other ppl around you, you are better of in a single player game. As for strike missions in the meta achievement of a living world episode. Totally fine. Yes the newest strike boss may be more difficult but we have more strike bosses that count with achievements and those are easy (can be done with friends and guild members if you prefer over randoms). Some of these strike mission achievements even can be soloed (boneskinner torches). If you join a random group for strike missions this does not mean you even have to talk, have a specific build (ofcourse preferred but if you just do it once for the achievement you can kinda leech along on the easy bosses) and in general go from the point that players are friendly and not toxic. Yes there are players that are toxic but this definetly is not the mayority. You don't have to get the meta achievement and nobody died from doing a strike mission for achievement once. You might even start to like it... There is no scheduling needed for strikes, you just hop in, kill the boss, and hop out. There were more difficult meta achievements like Migraine from HoT. And I guess Balthazar from PoF was also one players struggled on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Aaralyna.3104" said:I agree with Ayrilana and Bosanac.

Strike missions are a preparation for raids but nobody would have been complaining if they had said its a preparation for 10 man dungeons... Just the word "raid" alone seems to put ppl into defence mode and "I won't even try this". First of all the game is an mmo > multiplayer. This means the game aims you to play with a group of people. Either by tagging up in big zergs (worldboss, wvw, guild missions) or in smaller groups (guild missions, fractal/dungeon/strike/raid and casually doing any open world content varying from meta's till champions till just gathering together). If you want no other ppl around you, you are better of in a single player game.

You can call it what you want. ESO tried calling them Trials, it will not change what they are. Calling a dog a cat won't magically turn it into a cat.I've raided in the past, I have the achievements, doesn't mean I enjoy instanced content.MMORPG = Massive Multiplayer, nothing about instanced 5-10 man content is massive. You're better off playing a lobby-based game like Warframe, MHW etc.I'm not playing an MMO to distance myself from the large groups (Worldbosses, WvW, GMs) just to play some low-man lobby content. I'm here for the massive numbers. Zones full of people.

This preconception that people that dislike that type of content never tried it is a joke. Same thing goes for the "open-world players are single players".

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Raknar.4735 said:

@"Aaralyna.3104" said:I agree with Ayrilana and Bosanac.

Strike missions are a preparation for raids but nobody would have been complaining if they had said its a preparation for 10 man dungeons... Just the word "raid" alone seems to put ppl into defence mode and "I won't even try this". First of all the game is an mmo > multiplayer. This means the game aims you to play with a group of people. Either by tagging up in big zergs (worldboss, wvw, guild missions) or in smaller groups (guild missions, fractal/dungeon/strike/raid and casually doing any open world content varying from meta's till champions till just gathering together). If you want no other ppl around you, you are better of in a single player game.

You can call it what you want. ESO tried calling them Trials, it will not change what they are. Calling a dog a cat won't magically turn it into a cat.

Except strikes are not a rebranding of raids. As someone that has done raids, I’m kind of surprised that you’re holding strike missions on the same level as them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Aaralyna.3104" said:I agree with Ayrilana and Bosanac.

Strike missions are a preparation for raids but nobody would have been complaining if they had said its a preparation for 10 man dungeons... Just the word "raid" alone seems to put ppl into defence mode and "I won't even try this". First of all the game is an mmo > multiplayer. This means the game aims you to play with a group of people. Either by tagging up in big zergs (worldboss, wvw, guild missions) or in smaller groups (guild missions, fractal/dungeon/strike/raid and casually doing any open world content varying from meta's till champions till just gathering together). If you want no other ppl around you, you are better of in a single player game.

You can call it what you want. ESO tried calling them Trials, it will not change what they are. Calling a dog a cat won't magically turn it into a cat.

Except strikes are not a rebranding of raids. As someone that has done raids, I’m kind of surprised that you’re holding strike missions on the same level as them.

Just comparing them to raids in WoW. Difficulty, complexity or number of bosses didn't matter for the definition, just the group size. Anything that was bigger than normal groupsize was defined as a raid. Didn't matter if it was a fast raid like Onyxia with only 1 boss, or something longer like Naxx/ICC.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:For all of those that don't like having to do strike mission achievements for the meta: have you actually done strikes
and
put as much effort into them as you would have done for any story or open world achievement? I have a suspicion that a lot of those that don't like it probably have never actually done strikes or at least put much effort into it.

Doesn’t matter. The strike mission requirements should be removed from the completion equation.

Based on what? That you don't like them? I didn't particularly enjoy grinding events so those should be removed too.

As I've said numerous times, it's not the strike missions that's the problem, it's the change. Do you remember how the personal story had to be changed from a dungeon to a solo instance because people complained? The same thing happened to me in Rift. THe main story line ended in a raid. I didn't want to raid and it was one of the main things that drove me from that game. I suppose I should be thankful on that count.

But if you want to raise the bar, in my opinion, this isn't the way to do it. It's long been a problem with the nature of open world PvE being so casual in this game. You change the game you lose the playerbase. It's just logic.

This doesn't follow your complaint. The Achievements doesn't hinder you from experiencing the Main Story Line. I don't know of any Achievement acting like a gate that prevents players from enjoying the Main Story Line. Achievement is something YOU choose to work on, it was never a requirement for the Main Story Line. That's a misrepresentation of the facts. ArenaNet is not doing that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Infinity.6927 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Casual players don't care about achievements. So the achievement requirements means literally nothing to casuals. If the player cares about it, then they are not casual players.

Just saying.

You sir, must have a limited and restrictive definition of casual, to have arrived at this conclusion. I know plenty of casual players, like myself, who love to get their achievements. They like to get their 5k, 10K or whatever K achievement chests as do I. It's also a friendly bit of competition in my guild to see who can reach the next goal first.

The moment you choose to work on an achievement, you're not casually playing, especially when you participate in any, albeit friendly, competition. If you're working on achievements, masteries, map complettion, etc. -- you are working, not casually playing. If I completed an achievement (i.e. Agent of Entropy), yay, but by no means I worked for it and it means nothing.

But being casual, achievements aren't my[or most of the people I know] only focus. I spend my days doing the stories, playing throughout the entirety of Tyria, helping people when needed, getting dailies, crafting, making legendaries, doing a bit of WvW, PvP, or fractals, but the more content there is the less time I have to do WvW or PvP though.

Crafting legendaries is not for casual either. You may call yourself casual, but your activities disagrees with you.

I am a very casual player who doesn't really like organised content such as raids. I find them artificially outside of the world, and are exclusive, not inclusive. MMOs I thought were about being in the world with other players not locked away and needing special requirements such as a certain amount of DPS or skill.

I don't like raids and achievements because it's work. Work is not for a casual player like me.

My characters, as are my accounts, many and are always busy in the world of Tyria, being part of a community, never bored, always doing something,. I also hover in and out of the top 100 in NA for achievements and I am a proud casual.

You have a very strange definition of what a casual player is, but that's your choice. I'm not going to argue with that, instead I'll simply disagree.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:The moment you choose to work on an achievement, you're not casually playing, especially when you participate in any, albeit friendly, competition. If you're working on achievements, masteries, map complettion, etc. -- you are working, not casually playing. If I completed an achievement (i.e. Agent of Entropy), yay, but by no means I worked for it and it means nothing.Your definition of "casual" has no merit. You might as well say: "the moment you attack an enemy, you're not casually playing. If you're working on killing enemies, you're working, not casually playing." Completing achievements is as much a goal in the game as killing enemies. Checking to see which achievement you might want to attempt today is no less casual as deciding where in the world to kill enemies today.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:The moment you choose to work on an achievement, you're not casually playing, especially when you participate in any, albeit friendly, competition. If you're working on achievements, masteries, map complettion, etc. -- you are working, not casually playing. If I completed an achievement (i.e. Agent of Entropy), yay, but by no means I worked for it and it means nothing.Your definition of "casual" has no merit. You might as well say: "the moment you attack an enemy, you're not casually playing. If you're working on killing enemies, you're working, not casually playing."
Completing achievements is as much a goal in the game as killing enemies
. Checking to see which achievement you might want to attempt today is no less casual as deciding where in the world to kill enemies today.

No it's not, lol. That argument is flawed.

If you don't know the difference between someone playing basketball in a local park vs. someone playing professional basketball working to compete for the championship, then our conversation will not be very productive.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Raknar.4735" said:You can call it what you want. ESO tried calling them Trials, it will not change what they are. Calling a dog a cat won't magically turn it into a cat.I've raided in the past, I have the achievements, doesn't mean I enjoy instanced content.MMORPG = Massive Multiplayer, nothing about instanced 5-10 man content is massive. You're better off playing a lobby-based game like Warframe, MHW etc.I'm not playing an MMO to distance myself from the large groups (Worldbosses, WvW, GMs) just to play some low-man lobby content. I'm here for the massive numbers. Zones full of people.

This preconception that people that dislike that type of content never tried it is a joke. Same thing goes for the "open-world players are single players".

So you have raided in the past. This means you can do just 1x a strike in your lifetime just for the achievement no problem. I don't enjoy everything either but I do it if I want that specific achievement. Can just do it once and go back to things I do enjoy more no problem. So as I read your statement you have done the strike mission and got the achievements needed for the meta achievement so why complain? If you want something you get something and then do whatever you want to do (tho you wanted to get the achievement as well and by that wanted to do the strike mission at that moment else you would have just skipped the meta achievement). And to be honest, doing most worldbosses does feel like solo playing since there is no communication, no strategy, all for themselves and you don't even have to join any squad.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:The moment you choose to work on an achievement, you're not casually playing, especially when you participate in any, albeit friendly, competition. If you're working on achievements, masteries, map complettion, etc. -- you are working, not casually playing. If I completed an achievement (i.e. Agent of Entropy), yay, but by no means I worked for it and it means nothing.Your definition of "casual" has no merit. You might as well say: "the moment you attack an enemy, you're not casually playing. If you're working on killing enemies, you're working, not casually playing."
Completing achievements is as much a goal in the game as killing enemies
. Checking to see which achievement you might want to attempt today is no less casual as deciding where in the world to kill enemies today.

No it's not, lol. That argument is flawed.

If you don't know the difference between someone playing basketball in a local park vs. someone playing professional basketball working to compete for the championship, then our conversation will not be very productive.

Yes, it is, "lol". Your argument isn't just flawed, it's ridiculous beyond belief.

If you don't know how to create an analogy other than to stretch the very notion of the concept of analogies by comparing the dedication required to play professional basketball to doing an achievement in a videogame, there is little chance that this conversation will produce anything else than mirthful disbelief on my part, which is perhaps of some use to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Aaralyna.3104 said:

@"Raknar.4735" said:You can call it what you want. ESO tried calling them Trials, it will not change what they are. Calling a dog a cat won't magically turn it into a cat.I've raided in the past, I have the achievements, doesn't mean I enjoy instanced content.MMORPG = Massive Multiplayer, nothing about instanced 5-10 man content is massive. You're better off playing a lobby-based game like Warframe, MHW etc.I'm not playing an MMO to distance myself from the large groups (Worldbosses, WvW, GMs) just to play some low-man lobby content. I'm here for the massive numbers. Zones full of people.

This preconception that people that dislike that type of content never tried it is a joke. Same thing goes for the "open-world players are single players".

So you have raided in the past. This means you can do just 1x a strike in your lifetime just for the achievement no problem. I don't enjoy everything either but I do it if I want that specific achievement. Can just do it once and go back to things I do enjoy more no problem. So as I read your statement you have done the strike mission and got the achievements needed for the meta achievement so why complain? If you want something you get something and then do whatever you want to do (tho you wanted to get the achievement as well and by that wanted to do the strike mission at that moment else you would have just skipped the meta achievement). And to be honest, doing most worldbosses does feel like solo playing since there is no communication, no strategy, all for themselves and you don't even have to join any squad.

I had the Meta achievement on the third day of the release, doesn't mean I can't disagree with Anet's choice of gating it behind instanced content.I mean, I see people complaining about open world all the time, because it is too easy for them. I won't tell them to stop complaining, they have the right to do so.Telling someone to just "stop complaining" is akin to telling them to "stop caring". "Just enduring it" isn't always the smartest decision.A lot of People stopped caring about raids, look how that turned out. Same thing for dungeons.

To be honest, most instanced content feels like solo playing. The only thing you're doing is a quick "Hi" followed by a "Ty" after clear, add some linking of LI/Leg gear and Killproof, some clarification on mechanics if it goes wrong and that's everything. No socialization.I get the same level of communication from random people simply by rezzing them.

I have fun doing world bosses with other people while chatting, it's your decision if you chat with them or not, but don't expect anyone to talk to you first.

Edit: The massive amounts of people, even if they don't say anything, makes the place feel alive. Compare it to a cinema or a shopping mall. Many people doing their own thing, yet it feels lively. Going to a market without people would make it feel desolate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...