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Including Strike Mission Achievements as a Required Part of the Zone Meta


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I dont understand why most people are so afraid of instanced content, do you all want to get everything done by putting 0 effort? "kill this 10 times go there 5 times or press F here and there." How is this any fun?? why not try them out a few times and see if you like them or not, maybe you will love them or hate. If you hate just put VERY LITTLE EFFORT, to get the achievement and never go there again. Most of the strike achis are really easy and doable by everyone. I dont know why people have 0 trust in themselves or think that they will get personally attacked by "toxic" people. I do them daily with people from various skill levels, some do 1-3k dps some die, or some do very good, but I have never encountered someone attacking the other or offending them by talking about their skill level. This is honestly anets fault to add some sort of thing too late as people got used to getting everything done by doing very very simple tasks and putting 0 effort.

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I just realized that we need to do Strike Missions in order to complete new map mastery? W.T.F? In 7 years playing this I've never seen something like this. There's a lot of people that don't do raid/strike mission content and shouldn't be forced to do them to complete a map's mastery. This is ridiculous ANET. You really need to make it optional like the previous ones cause not everyone does strike missions. That is content for a small portion of the community. I see what you are doing there and trying to force people to do them, but this is not the way. Make it more attractive so more players can join, but don't make it mandatory for personal progression. Just another failed thought process. So disappointed.

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@"Alyster.9470" said:I dont understand why most people are so afraid of instanced content, do you all want to get everything done by putting 0 effort? "kill this 10 times go there 5 times or press F here and there." why not try them out a few times and see if you like them or not, maybe you will love them or hate. If you hate just put VERY LITTLE EFFORT, to get the achievement and never go there again. Most of the strike achis are really easy and doable by everyone. I dont know why people have 0 trust in themselves or think that they will get personally attacked by "toxic" people. I do them daily with people from various skill levels, some do 1-3k dps some die, or some do very good, but I have never encountered someone attacking the other or offending them by talking about their skill level. This is honestly anets fault to add some sort of thing too late as people got used to getting everything done by doing very very simple tasks and putting 0 effort.

See, heres the thing, im pretty sure those of us posting have tried them and dont like them. I know i dont, ive done them all, i hate strikes, and i hate instanced group content in 90% of the game. I dont mind putting forth effort in content i enjoy. But when im forced into content i dont want to do to get something i want i dont put effort into it as its -already- not enjoyable for me. I do the same with WVW and obtaining GOBS i do little more than flip camps, and run from any player i see.

Heres my question to you, do you want a player like me who -HATES- the content and doesnt care at all about it, in your group trying to actually do the content? I know i wouldnt want a player like me in my group.

They should made the meta require 25, and it would have allowed "casuals" like myself who despise the content to not be grouped with players who enjoy it and have the experience ruined by players like me who only want achievements. It also would have allowed players who enjoy strikes to get the vast majority of achievements. It is anets fault for setting a standard of allowing players of -ALL- skill levels to finish the meta without much issue, and then changing it in the 7th almost 8th year of the game.

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@YtseJam.9784 said:I just realized that we need to do Strike Missions in order to complete new map mastery? W.T.F? In 7 years playing this I've never seen something like this. There's a lot of people that don't do raid/strike mission content and shouldn't be forced to do them to complete a map's mastery. This is ridiculous ANET. You really need to make it optional like the previous ones cause not everyone does strike missions. That is content for a small portion of the community. I see what you are doing there and trying to force people to do them, but this is not the way. Make it more attractive so more players can join, but don't make it mandatory for personal progression. Just another failed thought process. So disappointed.

Hold on there... They added a new mastery point (bounties) and 2 mastery insights in Grothmar with same patch so you may want to check out there again :)

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@"Bosanac.3658" said:

@"Bosanac.3658" said:If the rewards don't matter then what is the issue? You get to play through the story, you get the usual mission rewards. Achievements are generally for the players who want more, and who want to "achieve" things, its literally in the name. ANET has started realizing that, and the majority of the playerbase doesn't even do achievements so almost no harm done.

I think you may be underestimating the number of people who play for achievements, as they were anyway. If that number falls off significantly with this change, then Anet will change this going forward. I have a guild full of casuals who pretty much play just to check off boxes. The open world/story stuff used to be their perview. This stuff could have been done without affected the existing system, with less risk that's all.

People who do achievements are well capable of taking on the Strike. The premise that "Everything that is required to fill the achievements bar has to be something I like" has a rather poor foundation. Like I said, "achievements" exist for a reason, to award players for doing more and to give more effort. Player number and percentage changing because of "harder achievements", which are purely optional, also doesn't sound presuasive nor well founded.

If I read a series of books and every single book was in English...all the way to this book where suddenly it was in Greek I'd be pissed. I've been doing zone metas now for years, literally years, and this is the first time I've had to do 10 man isntanced content to do them. The problem isn't the achievement. That problem is where that achievement is. I already said you can make a whole category of achievements just for strike missions and I"d have no problem. BUt this? Not the game I bought.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:For all of those that don't like having to do strike mission achievements for the meta: have you actually done strikes
and
put as much effort into them as you would have done for any story or open world achievement? I have a suspicion that a lot of those that don't like it probably have never actually done strikes or at least put much effort into it.

Doesn’t matter. The strike mission requirements should be removed from the completion equation.

Based on what? That you don't like them? I didn't particularly enjoy grinding events so those should be removed too.

As I've said numerous times, it's not the strike missions that's the problem, it's the change. Do you remember how the personal story had to be changed from a dungeon to a solo instance because people complained? The same thing happened to me in Rift. THe main story line ended in a raid. I didn't want to raid and it was one of the main things that drove me from that game. I suppose I should be thankful on that count.

But if you want to raise the bar, in my opinion, this isn't the way to do it. It's long been a problem with the nature of open world PvE being so casual in this game. You change the game you lose the playerbase. It's just logic.

This doesn't follow your complaint. The Achievements doesn't hinder you from experiencing the Main Story Line. I don't know of any Achievement acting like a gate that prevents players from enjoying the Main Story Line. Achievement is something YOU choose to work on, it was never a requirement for the Main Story Line. That's a misrepresentation of the facts. ArenaNet is not doing that.

THe facts are I don't want to be "encouraged" to raid, because I have no interest in raiding. Now Anet is changing my game for raids. Raids have already impinged my game when Anet has made balance changes around them, but I deal with that. This is my personal end game. You don't have to understand it, but this is basically what I play for. And if I'm going to be playing content I don't enjoy to get something, I'm going to stop playing because I play to have fun. There should be enough achievement so I can CHOOSE what I do, instead of being coraled into something. This is not the game I purchased.

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@"Alyster.9470" said:I dont understand why most people are so afraid of instanced content, do you all want to get everything done by putting 0 effort? "kill this 10 times go there 5 times or press F here and there." why not try them out a few times and see if you like them or not, maybe you will love them or hate. If you hate just put VERY LITTLE EFFORT, to get the achievement and never go there again. Most of the strike achis are really easy and doable by everyone. I dont know why people have 0 trust in themselves or think that they will get personally attacked by "toxic" people. I do them daily with people from various skill levels, some do 1-3k dps some die, or some do very good, but I have never encountered someone attacking the other or offending them by talking about their skill level. This is honestly anets fault to add some sort of thing too late as people got used to getting everything done by doing very very simple tasks and putting 0 effort.

I'm not afraid of instance content. I"ve done plenty of it. Every dungeon and every Fractal. Instanced content doesn't scare me. But I don't like the trend of being required to do anythign that requires more than five people and I don't even think five man groups should be reqiured for zone meta achievements. People misrepresent what I'm saying when they say I'm afraid. I'm not afraid of opera, but I don't like opera, so I don't go to see it. If my favorite bar put in one opera song one time, I'd live with it. But if there was one opera song every single time I went, I'd find another bar. I'ts pretty simple. You can dislike something about being afraid of it.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:For all of those that don't like having to do strike mission achievements for the meta: have you actually done strikes
and
put as much effort into them as you would have done for any story or open world achievement? I have a suspicion that a lot of those that don't like it probably have never actually done strikes or at least put much effort into it.

Doesn’t matter. The strike mission requirements should be removed from the completion equation.

Based on what? That you don't like them? I didn't particularly enjoy grinding events so those should be removed too.

As I've said numerous times, it's not the strike missions that's the problem, it's the change. Do you remember how the personal story had to be changed from a dungeon to a solo instance because people complained? The same thing happened to me in Rift. THe main story line ended in a raid. I didn't want to raid and it was one of the main things that drove me from that game. I suppose I should be thankful on that count.

But if you want to raise the bar, in my opinion, this isn't the way to do it. It's long been a problem with the nature of open world PvE being so casual in this game. You change the game you lose the playerbase. It's just logic.

This doesn't follow your complaint. The Achievements doesn't hinder you from experiencing the Main Story Line. I don't know of any Achievement acting like a gate that prevents players from enjoying the Main Story Line. Achievement is something YOU choose to work on, it was never a requirement for the Main Story Line. That's a misrepresentation of the facts. ArenaNet is not doing that.

THe facts are I don't want to be "encouraged" to raid, because I have no interest in raiding. Now Anet is changing my game for raids. Raids have already impinged my game when Anet has made balance changes around them, but I deal with that. This is my personal end game. You don't have to understand it, but this is basically what I play for. And if I'm going to be playing content I don't enjoy to get something, I'm going to stop playing because I play to have fun. There should be enough achievement so I can CHOOSE what I do, instead of being coraled into something. This is not the game I purchased.

It has never been the same game we all purchased since Season 1. The only thing you can really expect is that things will change and some changes will not be something we like. Many players I know already left the game due to changes they didn't like. I'm not saying that we should also leave, rather there are other things that we can do in the game instead of focusing on things that we are no longer able to do or achieve.

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@Dante.1763 said:

@"Alyster.9470" said:I dont understand why most people are so afraid of instanced content, do you all want to get everything done by putting 0 effort? "kill this 10 times go there 5 times or press F here and there." why not try them out a few times and see if you like them or not, maybe you will love them or hate. If you hate just put VERY LITTLE EFFORT, to get the achievement and never go there again. Most of the strike achis are really easy and doable by everyone. I dont know why people have 0 trust in themselves or think that they will get personally attacked by "toxic" people. I do them daily with people from various skill levels, some do 1-3k dps some die, or some do very good, but I have never encountered someone attacking the other or offending them by talking about their skill level. This is honestly anets fault to add some sort of thing too late as people got used to getting everything done by doing very very simple tasks and putting 0 effort.

See, heres the thing, im pretty sure those of us posting have tried them and dont like them. I know i dont, ive done them all, i hate strikes, and i hate instanced group content in 90% of the game. I dont mind putting forth effort in content i enjoy. But when im forced into content i dont want to do to get something i want i dont put effort into it as its -already- not enjoyable for me. I do the same with WVW and obtaining GOBS i do little more than flip camps, and run from any player i see.

Heres my question to you, do you want a player like me who -HATES- the content and doesnt care at all about it, in your group trying to actually do the content? I know i wouldnt want a player like me in my group.

They should made the meta require 25, and it would have allowed "casuals" like myself who despise the content to not be grouped with players who enjoy it and have the experience ruined by players like me who only want achievements. It also would have allowed players who enjoy strikes to get the vast majority of achievements. It is anets fault for setting a standard of allowing players of -ALL- skill levels to finish the meta without much issue, and then changing it in the 7th almost 8th year of the game.

ANET didn't hold to a single development policy for 7-8 years. Initially the game was designed to become more challenging and difficult as the story and content further progressed. They kept that policy right up to HoT release where they got ton of backlash by a number of game reviewers who were mostly casual. ANET turned their rudder at that moment, nerfed HoT down, halted the difficulty development throughout Season 3, and PoF and Season 4 were literal jokes when it came to challenging story. Your argument that ANET is suddenly shifting achievements is poorly founded. Just look at LWS 2 achievements. You had CHALLENGE MOTES for final bosses like Shadow of the Dragon. Mordremoth as final story boss of HoT has a CM which is sad because its the last story CM they developed.

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@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:For all of those that don't like having to do strike mission achievements for the meta: have you actually done strikes
and
put as much effort into them as you would have done for any story or open world achievement? I have a suspicion that a lot of those that don't like it probably have never actually done strikes or at least put much effort into it.

Doesn’t matter. The strike mission requirements should be removed from the completion equation.

Based on what? That you don't like them? I didn't particularly enjoy grinding events so those should be removed too.

As I've said numerous times, it's not the strike missions that's the problem, it's the change. Do you remember how the personal story had to be changed from a dungeon to a solo instance because people complained? The same thing happened to me in Rift. THe main story line ended in a raid. I didn't want to raid and it was one of the main things that drove me from that game. I suppose I should be thankful on that count.

But if you want to raise the bar, in my opinion, this isn't the way to do it. It's long been a problem with the nature of open world PvE being so casual in this game. You change the game you lose the playerbase. It's just logic.

This doesn't follow your complaint. The Achievements doesn't hinder you from experiencing the Main Story Line. I don't know of any Achievement acting like a gate that prevents players from enjoying the Main Story Line. Achievement is something YOU choose to work on, it was never a requirement for the Main Story Line. That's a misrepresentation of the facts. ArenaNet is not doing that.

THe facts are I don't want to be "encouraged" to raid, because I have no interest in raiding. Now Anet is changing my game for raids. Raids have already impinged my game when Anet has made balance changes around them, but I deal with that. This is my personal end game. You don't have to understand it, but this is basically what I play for. And if I'm going to be playing content I don't enjoy to get something, I'm going to stop playing because I play to have fun. There should be enough achievement so I can CHOOSE what I do, instead of being coraled into something. This is not the game I purchased.

It has never been the same game we all purchased since Season 1. The only thing you can really expect is that things will change and some changes will not be something we like. Many players I know already left the game due to changes they didn't like. I'm not saying that we should also leave, rather there are other things that we can do in the game instead of focusing on things that we are no longer able to do or achieve.

Yep it's never been the same game we purchased since season 1. YOu're right. That means when changes happen, if no one says anything and hte future comes and they're unhappy, it's their own fault for not speaking up.. I don't like this direction and if the game continues in this direction....strikes getting harder, strikes being requires for metas, well, I'm not going to get forced into preparing for raids I have no interest in playing.

Sure the game is always changing. And since I've liked most of the changes, the vast majority, I've stayed. But I spend less money in the cash shop now than I ever did, because the game is not 100% my game as it once was. Every time a change is made that doesn't align with what I think a game should be, it takes me a bit further from where I started, the more chance there is I'm going to stop playing. The question is how many people are standing in the same place I am.

How will this change benefit the game, compared to how many people are angry, or annoyed or just feeling meh about it. 1% of the population is affected, I don't have a leg to stand on...but I don't think that's the case. Anet will read the comments, look at how and what people are playing and they'll make a decision based on metrics. What I'm doing is expression my displeasure with the direction of something before it gets out of hand.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Bosanac.3658" said:

@"Bosanac.3658" said:If the rewards don't matter then what is the issue? You get to play through the story, you get the usual mission rewards. Achievements are generally for the players who want more, and who want to "achieve" things, its literally in the name. ANET has started realizing that, and the majority of the playerbase doesn't even do achievements so almost no harm done.

I think you may be underestimating the number of people who play for achievements, as they were anyway. If that number falls off significantly with this change, then Anet will change this going forward. I have a guild full of casuals who pretty much play just to check off boxes. The open world/story stuff used to be their perview. This stuff could have been done without affected the existing system, with less risk that's all.

People who do achievements are well capable of taking on the Strike. The premise that "Everything that is required to fill the achievements bar has to be something I like" has a rather poor foundation. Like I said, "achievements" exist for a reason, to award players for doing more and to give more effort. Player number and percentage changing because of "harder achievements", which are purely optional, also doesn't sound presuasive nor well founded.

If I read a series of books and every single book was in English...all the way to this book where suddenly it was in Greek I'd be pissed. I've been doing zone metas now for years, literally years, and this is the first time I've had to do 10 man isntanced content to do them. The problem isn't the achievement. That problem is where that achievement is. I already said you can make a whole category of achievements just for strike missions and I"d have no problem. BUt this? Not the game I bought.

I sadly don't see the correlation between English and Greek books with whether or not achievements have 10 man instanced content. Again, if an achievement line has content that you don't like, well, then its simply not for you. Its optional like everything else in this game. Learn to be disappointed like most people do :smile:

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@"Bosanac.3658" said:

@"Bosanac.3658" said:

@"Bosanac.3658" said:If the rewards don't matter then what is the issue? You get to play through the story, you get the usual mission rewards. Achievements are generally for the players who want more, and who want to "achieve" things, its literally in the name. ANET has started realizing that, and the majority of the playerbase doesn't even do achievements so almost no harm done.

I think you may be underestimating the number of people who play for achievements, as they were anyway. If that number falls off significantly with this change, then Anet will change this going forward. I have a guild full of casuals who pretty much play just to check off boxes. The open world/story stuff used to be their perview. This stuff could have been done without affected the existing system, with less risk that's all.

People who do achievements are well capable of taking on the Strike. The premise that "Everything that is required to fill the achievements bar has to be something I like" has a rather poor foundation. Like I said, "achievements" exist for a reason, to award players for doing more and to give more effort. Player number and percentage changing because of "harder achievements", which are purely optional, also doesn't sound presuasive nor well founded.

If I read a series of books and every single book was in English...all the way to this book where suddenly it was in Greek I'd be pissed. I've been doing zone metas now for years, literally years, and this is the first time I've had to do 10 man isntanced content to do them. The problem isn't the achievement. That problem is where that achievement is. I already said you can make a whole category of achievements just for strike missions and I"d have no problem. BUt this? Not the game I bought.

I sadly don't see the correlation between English and Greek books with whether or not achievements have 10 man instanced content. Again, if an achievement line has content that you don't like, well, then its simply not for you. Its optional like everything else in this game. Learn to be disappointed like most people do :smile:

When enough people are disappointed enough, it affects sales of the game, and the bottom line of the game, even if those people are the most casual portion of the playerbase. I've been disappointed by other decisions Anet has made, but it didn't directly affect what I considered what I'm playing for. This one does, which is why I'm bringing it up. I don't believe, if this continues as a pattern, it's going to affect the game. I might be wrong. But I might be right too.

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@"Bosanac.3658" said:

@"Alyster.9470" said:I dont understand why most people are so afraid of instanced content, do you all want to get everything done by putting 0 effort? "kill this 10 times go there 5 times or press F here and there." why not try them out a few times and see if you like them or not, maybe you will love them or hate. If you hate just put VERY LITTLE EFFORT, to get the achievement and never go there again. Most of the strike achis are really easy and doable by everyone. I dont know why people have 0 trust in themselves or think that they will get personally attacked by "toxic" people. I do them daily with people from various skill levels, some do 1-3k dps some die, or some do very good, but I have never encountered someone attacking the other or offending them by talking about their skill level. This is honestly anets fault to add some sort of thing too late as people got used to getting everything done by doing very very simple tasks and putting 0 effort.

See, heres the thing, im pretty sure those of us posting have tried them and dont like them. I know i dont, ive done them all, i hate strikes, and i hate instanced group content in 90% of the game. I dont mind putting forth effort in content i enjoy. But when im forced into content i dont want to do to get something i want i dont put effort into it as its -already- not enjoyable for me. I do the same with WVW and obtaining GOBS i do little more than flip camps, and run from any player i see.

Heres my question to you, do you want a player like me who -HATES- the content and doesnt care at all about it, in your group trying to actually do the content? I know i wouldnt want a player like me in my group.

They should made the meta require 25, and it would have allowed "casuals" like myself who despise the content to not be grouped with players who enjoy it and have the experience ruined by players like me who only want achievements. It also would have allowed players who enjoy strikes to get the vast majority of achievements. It is anets fault for setting a standard of allowing players of -ALL- skill levels to finish the meta without much issue, and then changing it in the 7th almost 8th year of the game.

ANET didn't hold to a single development policy for 7-8 years. Initially the game was designed to become more challenging and difficult as the story and content further progressed. They kept that policy right up to HoT release where they got ton of backlash by a number of game reviewers who were mostly casual. ANET turned their rudder at that moment, nerfed HoT down, halted the difficulty development throughout Season 3, and PoF and Season 4 were literal jokes when it came to challenging story. Your argument that ANET is suddenly shifting achievements is poorly founded. Just look at LWS 2 achievements. You had CHALLENGE MOTES for final bosses like Shadow of the Dragon. Mordremoth as final story boss of HoT has a CM which is sad because its the last story CM they developed.

Anet nerfed Orr long before they nerfed came out with HoT. They simplified the living world a number of ways. Do you remember how hard the Fire Ele was on release? We'd go there and we'd see dead bodies everywhere. They nerfed it, because it was too hard.

We've seen a number of things nerfed over time, because that hard concept was affected the game. The last story instance was originally a dungeon. HoT nerfed the TD meta long before they did the nerf to the rest of HOT. And even at launch the open world really wasn't that hard. Nothing I did in the open world felt hard, even Orr. It was annoying to some people with all the CC, or the mod density, but Orr was never hard. Dungeons were harder, it's true, but even dungeons were speed run in minutes by good players. And they were completely optional until the last story dungeon.

The issue is seperating hard and easy content. My opinion is ANet changes the game at the peril of the game and in this case I think the change is a mistake, particularly if they continue along these lines.

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@Dante.1763 said:

@"Bosanac.3658" said:

@"Alyster.9470" said:I dont understand why most people are so afraid of instanced content, do you all want to get everything done by putting 0 effort? "kill this 10 times go there 5 times or press F here and there." why not try them out a few times and see if you like them or not, maybe you will love them or hate. If you hate just put VERY LITTLE EFFORT, to get the achievement and never go there again. Most of the strike achis are really easy and doable by everyone. I dont know why people have 0 trust in themselves or think that they will get personally attacked by "toxic" people. I do them daily with people from various skill levels, some do 1-3k dps some die, or some do very good, but I have never encountered someone attacking the other or offending them by talking about their skill level. This is honestly anets fault to add some sort of thing too late as people got used to getting everything done by doing very very simple tasks and putting 0 effort.

See, heres the thing, im pretty sure those of us posting have tried them and dont like them. I know i dont, ive done them all, i hate strikes, and i hate instanced group content in 90% of the game. I dont mind putting forth effort in content i enjoy. But when im forced into content i dont want to do to get something i want i dont put effort into it as its -already- not enjoyable for me. I do the same with WVW and obtaining GOBS i do little more than flip camps, and run from any player i see.

Heres my question to you, do you want a player like me who -HATES- the content and doesnt care at all about it, in your group trying to actually do the content? I know i wouldnt want a player like me in my group.

They should made the meta require 25, and it would have allowed "casuals" like myself who despise the content to not be grouped with players who enjoy it and have the experience ruined by players like me who only want achievements. It also would have allowed players who enjoy strikes to get the vast majority of achievements. It is anets fault for setting a standard of allowing players of -ALL- skill levels to finish the meta without much issue, and then changing it in the 7th almost 8th year of the game.

ANET didn't hold to a single development policy for 7-8 years. Initially the game was designed to become more challenging and difficult as the story and content further progressed. They kept that policy right up to HoT release where they got ton of backlash by a number of game reviewers who were mostly casual. ANET turned their rudder at that moment, nerfed HoT down, halted the difficulty development throughout Season 3, and PoF and Season 4 were literal jokes when it came to challenging story. Your argument that ANET is suddenly shifting achievements is poorly founded. Just look at LWS 2 achievements. You had CHALLENGE MOTES for final bosses like Shadow of the Dragon. Mordremoth as final story boss of HoT has a CM which is sad because its the last story CM they developed.

Those challenge motes where -NOT- 10 man instanced content, if they where i probably wouldnt have them done to this day, actually probably wouldnt be playing this game if they had been. Thats what i have issues with. I dont have issues with hard or challenging content given i have all the metas up to now, i have issues with being forced into 10 man content. I did Migraine with 3 people, im not a terribad player like you seem to think people who hate strikes are. This whole: "Anyone who doesnt like strikes must suck at the game" idea you and others have needs to stop,

Yes anet found out that the large portion of their audience was Casual players with HOT, its a shame they had to learn that the hard way when they listened to the much much smaller vocal hardcore crowd they had.

I never said nor claimed that "Anyone who doesnt like strikes must suck at the game" so don't be a sore thumb and put words in my mouth, ok? "Yes anet found out that the large portion of their audience was Casual players with HOT", I said "reviewers" and they were not your average GW2 playerbase back then, yet ANET still went hunting after them.

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@"Bosanac.3658" said:

@"Bosanac.3658" said:

@"Alyster.9470" said:I dont understand why most people are so afraid of instanced content, do you all want to get everything done by putting 0 effort? "kill this 10 times go there 5 times or press F here and there." why not try them out a few times and see if you like them or not, maybe you will love them or hate. If you hate just put VERY LITTLE EFFORT, to get the achievement and never go there again. Most of the strike achis are really easy and doable by everyone. I dont know why people have 0 trust in themselves or think that they will get personally attacked by "toxic" people. I do them daily with people from various skill levels, some do 1-3k dps some die, or some do very good, but I have never encountered someone attacking the other or offending them by talking about their skill level. This is honestly anets fault to add some sort of thing too late as people got used to getting everything done by doing very very simple tasks and putting 0 effort.

See, heres the thing, im pretty sure those of us posting have tried them and dont like them. I know i dont, ive done them all, i hate strikes, and i hate instanced group content in 90% of the game. I dont mind putting forth effort in content i enjoy. But when im forced into content i dont want to do to get something i want i dont put effort into it as its -already- not enjoyable for me. I do the same with WVW and obtaining GOBS i do little more than flip camps, and run from any player i see.

Heres my question to you, do you want a player like me who -HATES- the content and doesnt care at all about it, in your group trying to actually do the content? I know i wouldnt want a player like me in my group.

They should made the meta require 25, and it would have allowed "casuals" like myself who despise the content to not be grouped with players who enjoy it and have the experience ruined by players like me who only want achievements. It also would have allowed players who enjoy strikes to get the vast majority of achievements. It is anets fault for setting a standard of allowing players of -ALL- skill levels to finish the meta without much issue, and then changing it in the 7th almost 8th year of the game.

ANET didn't hold to a single development policy for 7-8 years. Initially the game was designed to become more challenging and difficult as the story and content further progressed. They kept that policy right up to HoT release where they got ton of backlash by a number of game reviewers who were mostly casual. ANET turned their rudder at that moment, nerfed HoT down, halted the difficulty development throughout Season 3, and PoF and Season 4 were literal jokes when it came to challenging story. Your argument that ANET is suddenly shifting achievements is poorly founded. Just look at LWS 2 achievements. You had CHALLENGE MOTES for final bosses like Shadow of the Dragon. Mordremoth as final story boss of HoT has a CM which is sad because its the last story CM they developed.

Those challenge motes where -NOT- 10 man instanced content, if they where i probably wouldnt have them done to this day, actually probably wouldnt be playing this game if they had been. Thats what i have issues with. I dont have issues with hard or challenging content given i have all the metas up to now, i have issues with being forced into 10 man content. I did Migraine with 3 people, im not a terribad player like you seem to think people who hate strikes are. This whole: "Anyone who doesnt like strikes must suck at the game" idea you and others have needs to stop,

Yes anet found out that the large portion of their audience was Casual players with HOT, its a shame they had to learn that the hard way when they listened to the much much smaller vocal hardcore crowd they had.

I never said nor claimed that "Anyone who doesnt like strikes must suck at the game" so don't be a sore thumb and put words in my mouth, ok? "Yes anet found out that the large portion of their audience was Casual players with HOT", I said "reviewers" and they were not your average GW2 playerbase back then, yet ANET still went hunting after them.

Oh i disagree given how -hard- anet changed their direction after HOT. Even prior to HOT they where nerfing or changing content to make it easier due to feedback from players. Sure we dont have true numbers, only ANET has those. But for literal years after HOT they kept the game surprisingly easy compared to Pre release(where all the nerfs where done) HOT.

also, that comment wasnt just aimed at you, it was for everyone who read that post. Hence the "Others" wording.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Jayden Reese.9542" said:Vayne at this point you are just arguing for the sake of arguing and dragging this thread on into eternity. We get your point. Your analogy are poor ones. Please stop like you stopped playing the map because oh ya something you didn't want to do was on the list so you must stop playing every other aspect on that map. It doesn't make sense. Sometimes they give you 18/18 you gotta do all 18 or you can't get meta then you chose do I go out of my comfort zone or not. You chose not and to not even do stuff in your confort zone as a protest. And the main reason why the game you bought never required 10 man content in the meta b4 is a simple there was no 10 man content before so the game you bought changed and it's hard to feel sorry for you when you reply to every single person who differs in opinion

I'm simpy having a conversation with people who don't seem to understand my point, or who are misrepresenting it. One guys says people are scared of instanced content, but I"m not scared of it, I dislike it. What are forums for if not to have these conversations? I'm really not arguing for the sake of arguing, nor am I alone in my opinon of this. Anyone reading the thread can see this.

Your feedback is entirely valid even if I disagree it being a problem. Your pushing that this could risk the end of the game or at least "put it in peril" however is enormous hyperbole. (yes I know most of us are guilty of it at some point) By all means discuss how you are unhappy with the direction based on your experience, but second guessing the game going into decline over a meta achievement and then labouring the same point multiple times is hurting your argument. The game has survived vastly bigger changes than adding in a couple of instances to a meta achievement.

It is after all....just a meta achievement. It isn't a big enough deal to hurt the game long term, especially as this isn't a new thing.

So if you want to have a discussion about the pros and cons of having the strikes a part of a meta, then that's fine. But, the hyperbole is not needed, especially we know full well from experience that Anet will internally ignore such hyperbolic statements and always have done when/if reading feedback.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:For all of those that don't like having to do strike mission achievements for the meta: have you actually done strikes
and
put as much effort into them as you would have done for any story or open world achievement? I have a suspicion that a lot of those that don't like it probably have never actually done strikes or at least put much effort into it.

Doesn’t matter. The strike mission requirements should be removed from the completion equation.

Based on what? That you don't like them? I didn't particularly enjoy grinding events so those should be removed too.

As I've said numerous times, it's not the strike missions that's the problem, it's the change. Do you remember how the personal story had to be changed from a dungeon to a solo instance because people complained? The same thing happened to me in Rift. THe main story line ended in a raid. I didn't want to raid and it was one of the main things that drove me from that game. I suppose I should be thankful on that count.

But if you want to raise the bar, in my opinion, this isn't the way to do it. It's long been a problem with the nature of open world PvE being so casual in this game. You change the game you lose the playerbase. It's just logic.

This doesn't follow your complaint. The Achievements doesn't hinder you from experiencing the Main Story Line. I don't know of any Achievement acting like a gate that prevents players from enjoying the Main Story Line. Achievement is something YOU choose to work on, it was never a requirement for the Main Story Line. That's a misrepresentation of the facts. ArenaNet is not doing that.

THe facts are I don't want to be "encouraged" to raid, because I have no interest in raiding. Now Anet is changing my game for raids. Raids have already impinged my game when Anet has made balance changes around them, but I deal with that. This is my personal end game. You don't have to understand it, but this is basically what I play for. And if I'm going to be playing content I don't enjoy to get something, I'm going to stop playing because I play to have fun. There should be enough achievement so I can CHOOSE what I do, instead of being coraled into something. This is not the game I purchased.

It has never been the same game we all purchased since Season 1. The only thing you can really expect is that things will change and some changes will not be something we like. Many players I know already left the game due to changes they didn't like. I'm not saying that we should also leave, rather there are other things that we can do in the game instead of focusing on things that we are no longer able to do or achieve.

Yep it's never been the same game we purchased since season 1. YOu're right. That means when changes happen, if no one says anything and hte future comes and they're unhappy, it's their own fault for not speaking up.. I don't like this direction and if the game continues in this direction....strikes getting harder, strikes being requires for metas, well, I'm not going to get forced into preparing for raids I have no interest in playing.

Sure the game is always changing. And since I've liked most of the changes, the vast majority, I've stayed. But I spend less money in the cash shop now than I ever did, because the game is not 100% my game as it once was. Every time a change is made that doesn't align with what I think a game should be, it takes me a bit further from where I started, the more chance there is I'm going to stop playing. The question is how many people are standing in the same place I am.

How will this change benefit the game, compared to how many people are angry, or annoyed or just feeling meh about it. 1% of the population is affected, I don't have a leg to stand on...but I don't think that's the case. Anet will read the comments,
look at how and what people are playing and they'll make a decision based on metrics
. What I'm doing is expression my displeasure with the direction of something before it gets out of hand.

Now you're giving them too much credit. Seeing that a very small portion of the population wants raid, I doubt they follow any kind of metrics. What they are doing is what they want or what they think the players want. There's no such metrics. Take the upcoming Patch for example, they are posting it to show us what they want to do. And despite the feedback, they will launch that patch with little to no change.

As for spending; players will spend money to buy gems because they want something from the shop with no regards to whether the game is enjoyable to play or not. So their revenue is not an indication of whether the game is enjoyable to play or not.

They way I see it; play the content, or play other content, or don't play at all. IMO, just play other content -- Tyria is huge.

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@Dante.1763 said:

@"Bosanac.3658" said:

@"Bosanac.3658" said:

@"Alyster.9470" said:I dont understand why most people are so afraid of instanced content, do you all want to get everything done by putting 0 effort? "kill this 10 times go there 5 times or press F here and there." why not try them out a few times and see if you like them or not, maybe you will love them or hate. If you hate just put VERY LITTLE EFFORT, to get the achievement and never go there again. Most of the strike achis are really easy and doable by everyone. I dont know why people have 0 trust in themselves or think that they will get personally attacked by "toxic" people. I do them daily with people from various skill levels, some do 1-3k dps some die, or some do very good, but I have never encountered someone attacking the other or offending them by talking about their skill level. This is honestly anets fault to add some sort of thing too late as people got used to getting everything done by doing very very simple tasks and putting 0 effort.

See, heres the thing, im pretty sure those of us posting have tried them and dont like them. I know i dont, ive done them all, i hate strikes, and i hate instanced group content in 90% of the game. I dont mind putting forth effort in content i enjoy. But when im forced into content i dont want to do to get something i want i dont put effort into it as its -already- not enjoyable for me. I do the same with WVW and obtaining GOBS i do little more than flip camps, and run from any player i see.

Heres my question to you, do you want a player like me who -HATES- the content and doesnt care at all about it, in your group trying to actually do the content? I know i wouldnt want a player like me in my group.

They should made the meta require 25, and it would have allowed "casuals" like myself who despise the content to not be grouped with players who enjoy it and have the experience ruined by players like me who only want achievements. It also would have allowed players who enjoy strikes to get the vast majority of achievements. It is anets fault for setting a standard of allowing players of -ALL- skill levels to finish the meta without much issue, and then changing it in the 7th almost 8th year of the game.

ANET didn't hold to a single development policy for 7-8 years. Initially the game was designed to become more challenging and difficult as the story and content further progressed. They kept that policy right up to HoT release where they got ton of backlash by a number of game reviewers who were mostly casual. ANET turned their rudder at that moment, nerfed HoT down, halted the difficulty development throughout Season 3, and PoF and Season 4 were literal jokes when it came to challenging story. Your argument that ANET is suddenly shifting achievements is poorly founded. Just look at LWS 2 achievements. You had CHALLENGE MOTES for final bosses like Shadow of the Dragon. Mordremoth as final story boss of HoT has a CM which is sad because its the last story CM they developed.

Those challenge motes where -NOT- 10 man instanced content, if they where i probably wouldnt have them done to this day, actually probably wouldnt be playing this game if they had been. Thats what i have issues with. I dont have issues with hard or challenging content given i have all the metas up to now, i have issues with being forced into 10 man content. I did Migraine with 3 people, im not a terribad player like you seem to think people who hate strikes are. This whole: "Anyone who doesnt like strikes must suck at the game" idea you and others have needs to stop,

Yes anet found out that the large portion of their audience was Casual players with HOT, its a shame they had to learn that the hard way when they listened to the much much smaller vocal hardcore crowd they had.

I never said nor claimed that "Anyone who doesnt like strikes must suck at the game" so don't be a sore thumb and put words in my mouth, ok? "Yes anet found out that the large portion of their audience was Casual players with HOT", I said "reviewers" and they were not your average GW2 playerbase back then, yet ANET still went hunting after them.

Oh i disagree given how -hard- anet changed their direction after HOT. Even prior to HOT they where nerfing or changing content to make it easier due to feedback from players. Sure we dont have true numbers, only ANET has those. But for literal years after HOT they kept the game surprisingly easy compared to Pre release(where all the nerfs where done) HOT.

also, that comment wasnt just aimed at you, it was for everyone who read that post. Hence the "Others" wording.

You are assuming they knew how they were changing the difficulty. They added crits to objects and increased the condi cap. They didn't know how that would effect the world bosses. In less than a week they doubled all the bosses health.

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@"Jayden Reese.9542" said:Vayne at this point you are just arguing for the sake of arguing and dragging this thread on into eternity. We get your point. Your analogy are poor ones. Please stop like you stopped playing the map because oh ya something you didn't want to do was on the list so you must stop playing every other aspect on that map. It doesn't make sense. Sometimes they give you 18/18 you gotta do all 18 or you can't get meta then you chose do I go out of my comfort zone or not. You chose not and to not even do stuff in your confort zone as a protest. And the main reason why the game you bought never required 10 man content in the meta b4 is a simple there was no 10 man content before so the game you bought changed and it's hard to feel sorry for you when you reply to every single person who differs in opinion

I'm simpy having a conversation with people who don't seem to understand my point, or who are misrepresenting it. One guys says people are scared of instanced content, but I"m not scared of it, I dislike it. What are forums for if not to have these conversations? I'm really not arguing for the sake of arguing, nor am I alone in my opinon of this. Anyone reading the thread can see this.

Your feedback is entirely valid even if I disagree it being a problem. Your pushing that this could risk the end of the game or at least "put it in peril" however is enormous hyperbole. (yes I know most of us are guilty of it at some point) By all means discuss how you are unhappy with the direction based on your experience, but second guessing the game going into decline over a meta achievement and then labouring the same point multiple times is hurting your argument. The game has survived vastly bigger changes than adding in a couple of instances to a meta achievement.

It is after all....just a meta achievement. It isn't a big enough deal to hurt the game long term, especially as this isn't a new thing.

So if you want to have a discussion about the pros and cons of having the strikes a part of a meta, then that's fine. But, the hyperbole is not needed, especially we know full well from experience that Anet will internally ignore such hyperbolic statements and always have done when/if reading feedback.

I think more people play for those meta achievemnts by percentage than raid. I could be wrong, but I suspect that's the case. It might be a storm in a teacup. But I definitely can say how it affects me and some others in my guild who are pretty annoyed as well. Whether that translates to any kind of significant percentage of the player base, I guess we'll find out.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Jayden Reese.9542" said:Vayne at this point you are just arguing for the sake of arguing and dragging this thread on into eternity. We get your point. Your analogy are poor ones. Please stop like you stopped playing the map because oh ya something you didn't want to do was on the list so you must stop playing every other aspect on that map. It doesn't make sense. Sometimes they give you 18/18 you gotta do all 18 or you can't get meta then you chose do I go out of my comfort zone or not. You chose not and to not even do stuff in your confort zone as a protest. And the main reason why the game you bought never required 10 man content in the meta b4 is a simple there was no 10 man content before so the game you bought changed and it's hard to feel sorry for you when you reply to every single person who differs in opinion

I'm simpy having a conversation with people who don't seem to understand my point, or who are misrepresenting it. One guys says people are scared of instanced content, but I"m not scared of it, I dislike it. What are forums for if not to have these conversations? I'm really not arguing for the sake of arguing, nor am I alone in my opinon of this. Anyone reading the thread can see this.

Your feedback is entirely valid even if I disagree it being a problem. Your pushing that this could risk the end of the game or at least "put it in peril" however is enormous hyperbole. (yes I know most of us are guilty of it at some point) By all means discuss how you are unhappy with the direction based on your experience, but second guessing the game going into decline over a meta achievement and then labouring the same point multiple times is hurting your argument. The game has survived vastly bigger changes than adding in a couple of instances to a meta achievement.

It is after all....just a meta achievement. It isn't a big enough deal to hurt the game long term, especially as this isn't a new thing.

So if you want to have a discussion about the pros and cons of having the strikes a part of a meta, then that's fine. But, the hyperbole is not needed, especially we know full well from experience that Anet will internally ignore such hyperbolic statements and always have done when/if reading feedback.

I think more people play for those meta achievemnts by percentage than raid. I could be wrong, but I suspect that's the case. It might be a storm in a teacup. But I definitely can say how it affects me and some others in my guild who are pretty annoyed as well. Whether that translates to any kind of significant percentage of the player base, I guess we'll find out.

I'm certain more people play for meta achievements than raids. I very doubt most of those will care about the addition of strikes (and lets be clear, these are not raids as they are designed for pugs and every day players in some cases) and an insignificant number would likely quit the game because of it.

It'll annoy a few people which is why I don't out of hand dismiss the feedback. But it's no more than a personal preference situation rather than a potential disaster for the game. So this is exclusively how it affects you alone (edit) in terms of your feedback and not the wider playerbase

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@"Jayden Reese.9542" said:Vayne at this point you are just arguing for the sake of arguing and dragging this thread on into eternity. We get your point. Your analogy are poor ones. Please stop like you stopped playing the map because oh ya something you didn't want to do was on the list so you must stop playing every other aspect on that map. It doesn't make sense. Sometimes they give you 18/18 you gotta do all 18 or you can't get meta then you chose do I go out of my comfort zone or not. You chose not and to not even do stuff in your confort zone as a protest. And the main reason why the game you bought never required 10 man content in the meta b4 is a simple there was no 10 man content before so the game you bought changed and it's hard to feel sorry for you when you reply to every single person who differs in opinion

I'm simpy having a conversation with people who don't seem to understand my point, or who are misrepresenting it. One guys says people are scared of instanced content, but I"m not scared of it, I dislike it. What are forums for if not to have these conversations? I'm really not arguing for the sake of arguing, nor am I alone in my opinon of this. Anyone reading the thread can see this.

Your feedback is entirely valid even if I disagree it being a problem. Your pushing that this could risk the end of the game or at least "put it in peril" however is enormous hyperbole. (yes I know most of us are guilty of it at some point) By all means discuss how you are unhappy with the direction based on your experience, but second guessing the game going into decline over a meta achievement and then labouring the same point multiple times is hurting your argument. The game has survived vastly bigger changes than adding in a couple of instances to a meta achievement.

It is after all....just a meta achievement. It isn't a big enough deal to hurt the game long term, especially as this isn't a new thing.

So if you want to have a discussion about the pros and cons of having the strikes a part of a meta, then that's fine. But, the hyperbole is not needed, especially we know full well from experience that Anet will internally ignore such hyperbolic statements and always have done when/if reading feedback.

I think more people play for those meta achievemnts by percentage than raid. I could be wrong, but I suspect that's the case. It might be a storm in a teacup. But I definitely can say how it affects me and some others in my guild who are pretty annoyed as well. Whether that translates to any kind of significant percentage of the player base, I guess we'll find out.

I'm certain more people play for meta achievements than raids. I very doubt most of those will care about the addition of strikes (and lets be clear, these are not raids as they are designed for pugs and every day players in some cases) and an insignificant number would likely quit the game because of it.

It'll annoy a few people which is why I don't out of hand dismiss the feedback. But it's no more than a personal preference situation rather than a potential disaster for the game. So this is exclusively how it affects you alone.

Well it's not me alone, since other people in this thread have expressed similar concerns. One guy said he hasn't played since he found out. This is hardly three guys in Peoria.

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A potential way to address this type of issue, given my earlier thought process of how strikes need to succeed, would be to have a time limited phase post Living World release where meta LW achievements require the current strike be played (in order to complete the meta LW achievement), ideally with some simple achievements in that strike, then add further achievements down the road.

We are seeing similar things happening now with minor new content, and achievements, getting injected into old maps (just this LW release we saw Grothmar get some new achievements) and even a complete expansion of a map.

This could bridge the possibility to get the meta achievement for players who absolutely do not want to play the strikes, keep the maps a tad more relevant by having more players return, and encourage players to try out strikes if so inclined.

Ideally this would have to be noted in game, we have had hidden achievements in the past. Not sure if this would help the issue or simply make players complain again, but it is something to think about (if this approach is not even in the cards already, given the process of returning to previous maps this Saga).

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@"Cyninja.2954" said:What if: a main part of the revenue of the game was/is coming from the hardcore dedicated fraction of the player base?

Not saying this is or was the case, though I have stated that I personally believe that players that are more invested are more likely to spend money (and no, I'm not saying only hardcore players can be invested), but what if losing the hardcore crowd actually has a significant impact on this games financial performance? What if aiming all resources at only casual players results in a far worse financial performance, leading into even less resources being available for the game?

Maybe you should be more specific and not write such general terms like "hardcore dedicated fraction" or "players that are more invested" because these could mean totally different groups of players for different persons.

But if you mean with that for example players that play/want challenging10-man-instanced content, I can give you an answer according to raids (that exist for some time now in the game. Strike missions are too new, to draw conclusions):

Experienced raiders, that are doing raids regularly, have a quit good and steady income of gold and have also quite easy and cheap access to ascended gear, they can buy gems with gold and have less need to buy gems with real money than several other players. Raiders were the most ones that used ArcDPS and its templates a lot and have voiced also a lot about their denial of Anets monetized and worse version of templates/loadouts. And raiders are (according to Anet) a very small part of the GW2 player population (so few at the moment, that it is financially not viable, to invest in creating more raids). And usually, the "whales" (the players that spent a lot of real money for the game) are usually not the ones that earn the most "gold-per-hour/week" in the game.

So I doubt that raiders are a significant revenue stream for Anet.

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@Zok.4956 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:
What if: a main part of the revenue of the game was/is coming from the hardcore dedicated fraction of the player base?

Not saying this is or was the case, though I have stated that I personally believe that players that are more invested are more likely to spend money (and no, I'm not saying only hardcore players can be invested), but what if losing the hardcore crowd actually has a significant impact on this games financial performance? What if aiming all resources at only casual players results in a far worse financial performance, leading into even less resources being available for the game?

Maybe you should be more specific and not write such general terms like "hardcore dedicated fraction" or "players that are more invested" because these could mean totally different groups of players for different persons.

Please don't take my post out of context or at least try to keep it in context. The part you quoted was relating to a thread in the dungeon forum and relating to raids specifically. I explicitly remarked about that and did alter the meaning of this quote to this current thread.

You are literally responding to a quote out of context, from a different thread, without taking into account the adjustments made for this topic.

@Zok.4956 said:But if you mean with that for example players that play/want challenging10-man-instanced content, I can give you an answer according to raids (that exist for some time now in the game. Strike missions are too new, to draw conclusions):

Experienced raiders, that are doing raids regularly, have a quit good and steady income of gold and have also quite easy and cheap access to ascended gear, they can buy gems with gold and have less need to buy gems with real money than several other players. Raiders were the most ones that used ArcDPS and its templates a lot and have voiced also a lot about their denial of Anets monetized and worse version of templates/loadouts. And raiders are (according to Anet) a very small part of the GW2 player population (so few at the moment, that it is financially not viable, to invest in creating more raids). And usually, the "whales" (the players that spent a lot of real money for the game) are usually not the ones that earn the most "gold-per-hour/week" in the game.

So I doubt that raiders are a significant revenue stream for Anet.

and yet, nearly all raiders I know, have been spending money regularly on this game, myself included. That's why I specifically mentioned what I personally perceive to be one of the biggest factors for spending money: players being invested with the game and I do not differentiate between casual or hardcore players (and I did mention in which context these 2 terms are used).

So no, I disagree that more invested players will not spend money on items only because they might have the means to circumvent this with gold to gem exchanges. Most of us have lives and can make a simple cost benefit analysis if spending the last 10-12 hours of play on 800 gems is worth more to us than paying for something if we have spare income.

Also I was posing the post literally as a thought experiment. You can willfully work off of your assumption that:" well those players have enough gold, they aren't spending money". To which I would only answer or ask: sure, but what if you are wrong?

EDIT:Also your perception and understanding of whales is quite incorrect. Players being whales has seldom to do with how much gold/currency they acquire in a game. The most defining aspect is usually how invested they are and how much spare income they can spend. Applying rational such as: they have enough wealth so they will not spend more money, seldom applies due to a multitude of factors (some of which are relating to addiction and addiction like tendencies, or impulsive behavior). The accumulation of wealth in a game is very seldom an issue for whales to not spend more money, that would literally make them dolphins.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Zok.4956 said:

What if: a main part of the revenue of the game was/is coming from the hardcore dedicated fraction of the player base?

Not saying this is or was the case, though I have stated that I personally believe that players that are more invested are more likely to spend money (and no, I'm not saying only hardcore players can be invested), but what if losing the hardcore crowd actually has a significant impact on this games financial performance? What if aiming all resources at only casual players results in a far worse financial performance, leading into even less resources being available for the game?

Maybe you should be more specific and not write such general terms like "hardcore dedicated fraction" or "players that are more invested" because these could mean totally different groups of players for different persons.

Please don't take my post out of context or at least try to keep it in context. The part you quoted was relating to a thread in the dungeon forum and relating to raids specifically. I explicitly remarked about that and did alter the meaning of this quote to this current thread.

You are literally responding to a quote out of context, from a different thread, without taking into account the adjustments made for this topic.

@Zok.4956 said:But if you mean with that for example players that play/want challenging10-man-instanced content, I can give you an answer according to raids (that exist for some time now in the game. Strike missions are too new, to draw conclusions):

Experienced raiders, that are doing raids regularly, have a quit good and steady income of gold and have also quite easy and cheap access to ascended gear, they can buy gems with gold and have less need to buy gems with real money than several other players. Raiders were the most ones that used ArcDPS and its templates a lot and have voiced also a lot about their denial of Anets monetized and worse version of templates/loadouts. And raiders are (according to Anet) a very small part of the GW2 player population (so few at the moment, that it is financially not viable, to invest in creating more raids). And usually, the "whales" (the players that spent a lot of real money for the game) are usually not the ones that earn the most "gold-per-hour/week" in the game.

So I doubt that raiders are a significant revenue stream for Anet.

and yet, nearly all raiders I know, have been spending money regularly on this game, myself included. That's why I specifically mentioned what I personally perceive to be one of the biggest factors for spending money:
players being invested with the game
and I do not differentiate between casual or hardcore players (and I did mention in which context these 2 terms are used).

So no, I disagree that more invested players will not spend money on items only because they might have the means to circumvent this with gold to gem exchanges. Most of us have lives and can make a simple cost benefit analysis if spending the last 10-12 hours of play on 800 gems is worth more to us than paying for something if we have spare income.

Also I was posing the post literally as a thought experiment. You can willfully work off of your assumption that:" well those players have enough gold, they aren't spending money". To which I would only answer or ask: sure, but what if you are wrong?

I know its not more then personal experience, but i probably spend far more money on this game than most people, and im on the opposite side i think that you are when it comes to the topic of the thread.

@Cyninja.2954 said:A potential way to address this type of issue, given my earlier thought process of how strikes need to succeed, would be to have a time limited phase post Living World release where meta LW achievements require the current strike be played (in order to complete the meta LW achievement), ideally with some simple achievements in that strike, then add further achievements down the road.

We are seeing similar things happening now with minor new content, and achievements, getting injected into old maps (just this LW release we saw Grothmar get some new achievements) and even a complete expansion of a map.

This would be neat, im not sure if the new achievements they added into Grothmar counted for the meta however?

This could bridge the possibility to get the meta achievement for players who absolutely do not want to play the strikes, keep the maps a tad more relevant by having more players return, and encourage players to try out strikes if so inclined.

This i think would be a neat idea. Would keep the old maps relevant and played due to the new achievements and allow for more ways to obtain the meta.

Ideally this would have to be noted in game, we have had hidden achievements in the past. Not sure if this would help the issue or simply make players complain again, but it is something to think about (if this approach is not even in the cards already, given the process of returning to previous maps this Saga).

If the hidden achievements counted(they do not) for this saga or well if -all- the achievements counted for the meta nobody would be posting. You could obtain it by completing all the map achievements.

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