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Including Strike Mission Achievements as a Required Part of the Zone Meta


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Apparently, Anet thinks they can take the risk to change their offering to players ... AGAIN. We shall see how this works out for them in the long run; I think we already see signs it's not. This inconsistent approach to content offerings is the biggest problem with this game.

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Their offerings are the exact same, they are just diversifying. Did they remove the open world? Did they remove the treasure chests everywhere will bad loot that is the signature of Pof? BM is in every way a PoF map sans hearts, so it is kinda like a pof/hot hybrid map.Anet is trying to please everyone, that is why we have instanced content, jumping puzzles and world bosses. The meta should reflect doing everything there is to do in the content, like it has always been. How many time has the meta be locked behind doing jumping puzzles (which is one is also). There have been threads on this board complaining about jumping puzzles, but those people still have the do them to complete the meta.Right now Anet needs to hold strong on this issue, and stop cow towing to this minority of players whining they can't just have everything handed to them.

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OK ... whatever you want to call it, it's not worth a pedantic argument. No one is arguing that they want everything handed to them, so whatever sensationalism you want to peddle to push your agenda, it's not really welcome here. The point is how Anet offers content to players and how it affects 'winning', which in this case is getting achievements/map completion/etc ...

Trust me, if 'cowtowing' to the people that patronize Anet is what Anet needs to do to make this game live on, you WILL see it. Sooner or later, Anet must focus on the things that make this game it's own and the reasons that made it successful in the first place. That's certainly not what we see happening with strike missions linked to meta ... but hey, that's Anet's risk, not players.

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And you are a vocal minority. And there is evidence to show this. Using gw2 efficiency data, of the 49653 people who started the episode, 8677 people have killed strike whisper of jormag, the boss the same difficultly as a raid boss. Compare this to people who completed all the light puzzles, 7433, jumping puzzles are a bigger barrier to the meta than strikes. If you ignore boneskinner achievements (he been bugged since the update) or the high skill "flawless" strike achievements, the lowest completed achievements are the mundane repeat events 20 times. Honestly repeating the same unrewarding event 20 is probably the biggest gate from completing the meta, not doing the strikes.

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The moment you choose to work on an achievement, you're not casually playing, especially when you participate in any, albeit friendly, competition. If you're working on achievements, masteries, map complettion, etc. -- you are working, not casually playing. If I completed an achievement (i.e. Agent of Entropy), yay, but by no means I worked for it and it means nothing.
Why does choosing to work on an achievement make me not play casually or completing a map? Lots of achievements happen without even knowing you are doing them - killing 10 Ice Imps or consuming a food item, or using a transmutation charge to change an armour/weapon look, killing things with a weapon gets you another. Very few have to actively pursued and I haven't done any of the raid achievements.

Crafting legendaries is not for casual either. You may call yourself casual, but your activities disagrees with you.
Who is it that says legendaries are not for casual players? Legendaries, gen 1 at least[ if you buy or get a precursor drop], are just crafting and following the wiki on how to make. I have played since launch and amassed a lot of materials and I was a bit apprehensive at first as it sounded complicated but if you take a step by step approach it's not complex or hard. The first one is a bit of work as you might have to follow the wiki but that does make it simple. .

You have a very strange definition of what a casual player is, but that's your choice. I'm not going to argue with that, instead I'll simply disagree.Usage of the word casual seems to mean different things to different people. What makes you a casual player, ie how are you using this to define your play style?

I do not like to apply labels to how other people or groups of people play this game because there are so many reasons why they play the way they do. But I do define myself as casual as opposed to hardcore. I don't often play with a meta build, I just choose what seems ok, I use berserker gear on my characters, and most only have exotic gear, and I have sometimes played without accessories or rings. I do play to have fun and enjoy the game. I like helping people but I often don't like playing in groups Im not very social, bu tI am fairly casual.

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I personally like that its there because this is an mmo and i relate mmos with multiplayer cooperative content, which sadly i didnt get from drakkar (feelsbadman).

I think its perfectly fine for an mmo to incentivise group content, esp content that incentivises some communication and party forming versus the play alone together aproach of the ow.

But im biased towards that kind of content and very much enjoyed content like it in the past (fractals, dungeons, raids and even hot meta way back when it was still fresh ish).

Ill go as far as to say the ep mastery requiring the strike made it feel like early hot to me.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:For all of those that don't like having to do strike mission achievements for the meta: have you actually done strikes
and
put as much effort into them as you would have done for any story or open world achievement? I have a suspicion that a lot of those that don't like it probably have never actually done strikes or at least put much effort into it.

Doesn’t matter. The strike mission requirements should be removed from the completion equation.

Based on what? That you don't like them? I didn't particularly enjoy grinding events so those should be removed too.

As I've said numerous times, it's not the strike missions that's the problem, it's the change. Do you remember how the personal story had to be changed from a dungeon to a solo instance because people complained? The same thing happened to me in Rift. THe main story line ended in a raid. I didn't want to raid and it was one of the main things that drove me from that game. I suppose I should be thankful on that count.

But if you want to raise the bar, in my opinion, this isn't the way to do it. It's long been a problem with the nature of open world PvE being so casual in this game. You change the game you lose the playerbase. It's just logic.

I wish the story bosses of gw2 were at least strike 5-10 man encounters. Would make these fights so much more meaningful to me. It doesnt even need be hard, just make it a group content with group mechanics and ill be very pleased.

I find that we kill elder dragons, gods, immortal litches etc practicly solo very immersion breaking.

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I initially hopped in here ready to agree with the original post. I was upset that strike missions were required for the map. Then after slogging through the thread and seeing the 54225846 replies to every single person expressing an opposing viewpoint, basically saying nothing new, but threatening to leave, and reading the various reasonable, logical replies, I have changed my mind.

I mean, after all, I already like raiding. I raid three nights a week. I was disliking the requirements because strike mission rewards are lackluster and my raid groups don't want to do them. Glad to hear from responses that they can be pugged.

Oh, incidentally. About age. I am 54 and am the third oldest on those teams. Age has nothing to do with whether or not someone can raid.

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@Shadowmoon.7986 said:You are assuming they knew how they were changing the difficulty. They added crits to objects and increased the condi cap. They didn't know how that would effect the world bosses. In less than a week they doubled all the bosses health.It was the opposite. First they did the condi rework. Then they doubled world boss health, to compensate to that. And then, when they realized they overdid it with that last change, they allowed bosses to be crittable to compensate. And when they noticed that the end result was still a nerf compared to pre-condi rework state? They did nothing, and left the situation as it was.

@Randulf.7614 said:As I said above - the feedback that Anet have is that players appear to want to do it, they just find obstacles to doing it and have asked for those obstacles to be removed. The desire seems to exist based on that reply from Andrew Gray. That is why they are pushing these strikes so hard. Any statement from us otherwise flows against the feedback they have gathered.Problem is, when casual players say that what's preventing them from doing raids is raid difficulty, that doesn't mean they say they want to play better. They are saying that they wants raids to become easier. Pushing players into strikes does exactly nothing to change that. It just will cause them to protest against both raids and strikes. And, as long as strikes are required to do it, against the LS meta.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:For all of those that don't like having to do strike mission achievements for the meta: have you actually done strikes and put as much effort into them as you would have done for any story or open world achievement? I have a suspicion that a lot of those that don't like it probably have never actually done strikes or at least put much effort into it.

Yes. I have also done practically all of raid wings W1 to W6 achieves (apart from dhuum and Qadim CMs). Still not fan of strikes being required for LS meta.

@Randulf.7614 said:Act 4 of HoT requires Migraine as part of the achievement meta - a hard multi player instanced version of the story. If anything requiring more commitment than a strike mission. WHy is that OK and not a precedent for scaring off the population.Oh, it wasn't okay, and it did generate a lot of negative reactions then.

I still very much resent Anet for that - that achi alone delayed my meta completions of many LS metas by at least a year. Not having HoT meta completed i didn't care as much about finishing LS3 metas, and started to work on them more only after i finally managed to finish Migraine. As a result i still don't have all of those done yet - before i got finished with them, lot of other stuff happened that decreased my enjoyment in this game.

This meta i didn't even bother to start working on, and strikes are one of the major factors.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:You are assuming they knew how they were changing the difficulty. They added crits to objects and increased the condi cap. They didn't know how that would effect the world bosses. In less than a week they doubled all the bosses health.It was the opposite. First they did the condi rework. Then they doubled world boss health, to compensate to that. And
then
, when they realized they overdid it with that last change, they allowed bosses to be crittable to compensate. And when they noticed that the end result was still a nerf compared to pre-condi rework state? They did nothing, and left the situation as it was.

@Randulf.7614 said:As I said above - the feedback that Anet have is that players appear to want to do it, they just find obstacles to doing it and have asked for those obstacles to be removed. The desire seems to exist based on that reply from Andrew Gray. That is why they are pushing these strikes so hard. Any statement from us otherwise flows against the feedback they have gathered.Problem is, when casual players say that what's preventing them from doing raids is raid difficulty, that doesn't mean they say they want to play better. They are saying that they wants
raids
to become
easier
. Pushing players into strikes does exactly nothing to change that. It just will cause them to protest against both raids and strikes. And, as long as strikes are required to do it, against the LS meta.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:For all of those that don't like having to do strike mission achievements for the meta: have you actually done strikes
and
put as much effort into them as you would have done for any story or open world achievement? I have a suspicion that a lot of those that don't like it probably have never actually done strikes or at least put much effort into it.

Yes. I have also done practically all of raid wings W1 to W6 achieves (apart from dhuum and Qadim CMs). Still not fan of strikes being required for LS meta.

@Randulf.7614 said:Act 4 of HoT requires Migraine as part of the achievement meta - a hard multi player instanced version of the story. If anything requiring more commitment than a strike mission. WHy is that OK and not a precedent for scaring off the population.Oh, it wasn't okay, and it did generate a lot of negative reactions then.

I still very much resent Anet for that - that achi alone delayed my meta completions of many LS metas by at least a year. Not having HoT meta completed i didn't care as much about finishing LS3 metas, and started to work on them more only after i finally managed to finish Migraine. As a result i still don't have all of those done yet - before i got finished with them, lot of other stuff happened that decreased my enjoyment in this game.

This meta i didn't even bother to start working on, and strikes are one of the major factors.

I personally agree that migraine likely shouldnt have been required because of the dificulty, but it deff deserved an achievement and good rewards (if not an achievements tab on its own)

That being said, base mordremoth fight should be a 5 to 10 man encounter and be required for act 4 and ill die on this hill, that fight felt like the most immersive fight in the game because of the lore aplication and context. We faught a god like being as a group of heroes and prevailed instead of graverushing it as a simple mortal doing it solo.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:Please don't take my post out of context or at least try to keep it in context. The part you quoted was relating to a thread in the dungeon forum and relating to raids specifically. I explicitly remarked about that and did alter the meaning of this quote to this current thread.

Then you should not have quoted that large text block yourself from another thread/context unchanged.

@Cyninja.2954 said:So no, I disagree that more invested players will not spend money on items

I did not write about "invested" players, whatever "invested" could mean. I wrote about raiders. Now you disagree with something, I did not even wrote.

@Cyninja.2954 said:Also your perception and understanding of whales is quite incorrect. Players being whales has seldom to do with how much gold/currency they acquire in a game.

And again, you disagree with something, I did not even wrote. In fact I wrote:

@"Zok.4956" said:And usually, the "whales" (the players that spent a lot of real money for the game) ...

see also:https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/63lvak/what_is_a_whale/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_roller

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@Zok.4956 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Please don't take my post out of context or at least try to keep it in context. The part you quoted was relating to a thread in the dungeon forum and relating to raids specifically. I explicitly remarked about that and did alter the meaning of this quote to this current thread.

Then you should not have quoted that large text block yourself from another thread/context unchanged.

You mean the big block of text which I clearly prefaced that it is from a different thread, then right after set into context how the argument there can be applied here and the train of thought adapted to this context? Seems to me, you could have simply actually read what you were quoting and commenting. Everybody else in this thread was able to, you were the only one who had problems it seems.

@Zok.4956 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:So no, I disagree that more invested players will not spend money on items

I did not write about "invested" players, whatever "invested" could mean. I wrote about raiders. Now you disagree with something, I did not even wrote.

Yes, it was clear that you were quoting and referencing something absolutely unrelated to this thread.

@Cyninja.2954 said:Also your perception and understanding of whales is quite incorrect. Players being whales has seldom to do with how much gold/currency they acquire in a game.

And again, you disagree with something, I did not even wrote. In fact I wrote:

@Zok.4956 said:And usually, the "whales" (the players that spent a lot of real money for the game) ...

see also:
->

You referenced whales, which you prefaced with comments about raiders and then directly commented how you did not believe raiders are a huge revenue stream for Arenanet. You were either very unclear and accidentally mixed up two different points. Or worse you tried to insinuate something and are now backpedaling. Neither is good form of arguing.

Either way, I disagreed that being a raider would in anyway relate to being a whale or not. I set into context what I believe makes up a whale and I gave examples of why your argument need not apply to raiders in this game (aka they being super wealthy gold wise and all etc).

My main point remains:I believe players who are most invested in the game are the most likely to spend money, and as mentioned before, I do not differentiate between casual or hardcore players only if it might change the likelihood of a player becoming more invested.

Please quote and address my comments in proper context, get back on topic, or just ignore what I am writing if you do not intend to put in the effort for proper debate.

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@Shadowmoon.7986 said:Their offerings are the exact same, they are just diversifying. Did they remove the open world? Did they remove the treasure chests everywhere will bad loot that is the signature of Pof? BM is in every way a PoF map sans hearts, so it is kinda like a pof/hot hybrid map.Anet is trying to please everyone, that is why we have instanced content, jumping puzzles and world bosses. The meta should reflect doing everything there is to do in the content, like it has always been. How many time has the meta be locked behind doing jumping puzzles (which is one is also). There have been threads on this board complaining about jumping puzzles, but those people still have the do them to complete the meta.Right now Anet needs to hold strong on this issue, and stop cow towing to this minority of players whining they can't just have everything handed to them.

There's a Christmas meta. It has a bunch of stuff in it, but if you can't stand jumping puzzles you don't have to do it to get htat meta. They include options. I skip mad king says every year and do the jumping puzzle instead. Again options. I don't believe people should be forced to do a hard jumping puzzle to get a meta, nor do I think people should be forced into strike missions.

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@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:And you are a vocal minority. And there is evidence to show this. Using gw2 efficiency data, of the 49653 people who started the episode, 8677 people have killed strike whisper of jormag, the boss the same difficultly as a raid boss. Compare this to people who completed all the light puzzles, 7433, jumping puzzles are a bigger barrier to the meta than strikes. If you ignore boneskinner achievements (he been bugged since the update) or the high skill "flawless" strike achievements, the lowest completed achievements are the mundane repeat events 20 times. Honestly repeating the same unrewarding event 20 is probably the biggest gate from completing the meta, not doing the strikes.

It's really funny because that statisitc would showthat I completed the new strike misson. I was carried through it and lay there dead for the last 13% of the boss, after a wipe. So I'm part of that statistic. I haven't gotten to the light puzzles yet, which I enjoy. So that statistic on GW 2 efficiency woulde be meaningless. IN fact, people can get carried through the strike mission but really can't be carried through light puzzles. It's a solo activity. I think a better metric is how many casual people that might have been doing light puzzles, saw the need for the strike mission and stopped playing the game or at least the zone.

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Okay so I guess part of the problem here is in my head. It's not that I'm incapable of doing strike missions. It's that they were added to encourage me to raid and I don't want to raid, so I don't need to be "encouraged" to do something that is simply not in my list of things I want to enjoy. They didn't say, oh we're adding strike missions because we think most people will find them fun. They said we need path to raids, not enouugh people are raiding and we want to continue to offer raids. So strike missions...the path to raids. They want people to get better at the game so they're giving them a land bridge. Do this content, you'll get better than then you can raid. I have two problems with this.

First, my issue isn't that I'm bad or not good enough. It's a bad assumption. I'm good enough to raid, but I don't enjoy that type of content. It's not about skill. It's about why and how I play. I play for a living breathing world, not an instance where at 75% this happens and at 50% that happens, okay everyone run into the green circle, okay everyone dodge, okay everyone jump. This is not why I play. I didn't come here to raid or do raid like content. I came here to get away from games that strongly encouraged you to raid by making it the defacto end game.

I was against adding raids to this game because I said it would change the game. And people said no, no. Raids are a seperate thing. They're just offering new content for people who want to play this harder stuff. I said well then there will be all sorts of exclusive rewards you guys get and I'm not going to be having any of that, because I bought a game where raids didn't exist and adopted it as my game for a reason. Okay I dealt with that. I dealt with the whole I won't ever have the legendary armor skins, even though I like collecting skins, because I'm not going to do something I don't enjoy to get them.

Cut to today and again, my game is changing because of raids. Not because this is something that they think I'll necessarily find fun. But to say raids doesnt' have enough players, here's some encouragement oh and btw, too bad about the meta achievement you enjoy going for. Raids have again affected me game.

So yesterday I was about to take a guy who contacted me from reddit on a hero point run and he said hey, my friend said he'd carry me through a strike mission wanna come? We were already grouped so I so sure. I did the older strike mission and the newer one.

I stood on a tag. I dodged when I needed to. I didn't die at all until the new strike mission. There I died a bit earlier the first time and when the boss was at 13%. In order to enjoy this stuff you have to do it again and again. You have to learn the fight. You have to understand what's expected. But even after doing that with other similar content, I still don't enjoy the content. So Anet is asking me to get carried for an achievement and then go back to my regular game. But the only reason I need to do this is to get more people ready for raids, which on their own have failed to get the required player base.

So will they get enough people from this, or piss off more people? Will Anet keep doing this every time a new zone comes out. I used to look forward to new zones, but with strike missions there'll be this element of, oh man, let me get through this. It's like eating my vegetable when I was a kid.

If raids couldn't make it on their own, while is what I enjoy suddenly being altered to help them along? It feels to me like Anet is throwing good money after bad. I'm convinced this game would be doing better if raids had never been introduced. But they're here now, I get it. Doesn't mean I have to like having it affect areas of the game that I want to play, particularly because I don't think many will get into raiding because of this. This is my experience in the new strike mission. I did what I had to do till the boss was at 13% when I died. Can't use a revive orb. Can't be rezzed, so I lay there until it was done and got my credit. Fun for me? Nah. Would I do it again...well that's the thing....I'm a guild leader. Aren't I obligated to learn this content to help my guild through it so they can all get those achievements. This fundamentally changes the game for me.

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@Vayne.8563 said:

@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:And you are a vocal minority. And there is evidence to show this. Using gw2 efficiency data, of the 49653 people who started the episode, 8677 people have killed strike whisper of jormag, the boss the same difficultly as a raid boss. Compare this to people who completed all the light puzzles, 7433, jumping puzzles are a bigger barrier to the meta than strikes. If you ignore boneskinner achievements (he been bugged since the update) or the high skill "flawless" strike achievements, the lowest completed achievements are the mundane repeat events 20 times. Honestly repeating the same unrewarding event 20 is probably the biggest gate from completing the meta, not doing the strikes.

It's really funny because that statisitc would showthat I completed the new strike misson. I was carried through it and lay there dead for the last 13% of the boss, after a wipe. So I'm part of that statistic. I haven't gotten to the light puzzles yet, which I enjoy. So that statistic on GW 2 efficiency woulde be meaningless. IN fact, people can get carried through the strike mission but really can't be carried through light puzzles. It's a solo activity. I think a better metric is how many casual people that might have been doing light puzzles, saw the need for the strike mission and stopped playing the game or at least the zone.

A metric impossible to obtain and on top of that includes the vague, wishy washy term of "casual" which indicates absolutely nothing because no one will ever agree what casual actually means. It's one of those nonsense buzz words that more often than not gets thrown in to define whatever people want it to define.

However, I will jump to your defence on this one. GW2 efficiency is an (ironically) inefficient guideline to prove much. Dedicated players are more likely to jump in to play the strike first (it's new, it's unique, it's got challenging mechanics etc etc) and are also more likely to be on GW efficiency. Strikes are also more time sensitive due to population variations so players will get that done as soon as they can or as soon as teams appear - it gets priority. The JPs can be done at any time at leisure, so they move down the priority list. I'm more inclined to play at peak and if I want something to do, I'm more inclined to do a strike in that time than a repeatable JP. Because it would be wasteful not to.

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@Aaralyna.3104 said:

@YtseJam.9784 said:I just realized that we need to do Strike Missions in order to complete new map mastery? W.T.F? In 7 years playing this I've never seen something like this. There's a lot of people that don't do raid/strike mission content and shouldn't be forced to do them to complete a map's mastery. This is ridiculous ANET. You really need to make it optional like the previous ones cause not everyone does strike missions. That is content for a small portion of the community. I see what you are doing there and trying to force people to do them, but this is not the way. Make it more attractive so more players can join, but don't make it mandatory for personal progression. Just another failed thought process. So disappointed.

Hold on there... They added a new mastery point (bounties) and 2 mastery insights in Grothmar with same patch so you may want to check out there again :)

Thanks, I already did those :)

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@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:And you are a vocal minority. And there is evidence to show this. Using gw2 efficiency data, of the 49653 people who started the episode, 8677 people have killed strike whisper of jormag, the boss the same difficultly as a raid boss. Compare this to people who completed all the light puzzles, 7433, jumping puzzles are a bigger barrier to the meta than strikes. If you ignore boneskinner achievements (he been bugged since the update) or the high skill "flawless" strike achievements, the lowest completed achievements are the mundane repeat events 20 times. Honestly repeating the same unrewarding event 20 is probably the biggest gate from completing the meta, not doing the strikes.

I don't even know what you are talking about. I don't care who did what, how many or what 'vocal' classification you think people belong in so you pretend their concerns aren't worth considering. I get you have an agenda to push content you like, but no one here is suggesting to remove content. I think you need to go back and check yourself and understand clearly what is being asked for. There isn't any reason to feel threatened by what the OP is asking for. Disassociating strike mission achievements from meta achievements isn't some unreasonable ask and no one is asking anyone to just hand them things. Give your head a shake.

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So by your own admission, you did the strike and completed it. It is not locking you out of the meta. Doesn't it make your own argument moot and make this into a troll thread?50k accounts is not a small sample size, they are probably representive of the entire playerbase seeing have only 30k of them have finished living story part. That is right 40% of the accounts have not finished the 2 hours of story content, clearly efficiency has casuals in its sample. And again, just saying you dislike my method, but unless you can come put up another objective measurement, you are honest just blowing hot air sprinkled in with antidotes and personal bias.

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@Shadowmoon.7986 said:So by your own admission, you did the strike and completed it. It is not locking you out of the meta. Doesn't it make your own argument moot and make this into a troll thread?50k accounts is not a small sample size, they are probably representive of the entire playerbase seeing have only 30k of them have finished living story part. That is right 40% of the accounts have not finished the 2 hours of story content, clearly efficiency has casuals in its sample. And again, just saying you dislike my method, but unless you can come put up another objective measurement, you are honest just blowing hot air sprinkled in with antidotes and personal bias.

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:So by your own admission, you did the strike and completed it. It is not locking you out of the meta. Doesn't it make your own argument moot and make this into a troll thread?50k accounts is not a small sample size, they are probably representive of the entire playerbase seeing have only 30k of them have finished living story part. That is right 40% of the accounts have not finished the 2 hours of story content, clearly efficiency has casuals in its sample. And again, just saying you dislike my method, but unless you can come put up another objective measurement, you are honest just blowing hot air sprinkled in with antidotes and personal bias.

The fact that I had to ruined my enjoyment of the meta, and therefore the entire zone. I'm not sure why that's so hard to understand.

At no point did I say I can't do this. What I said was the game is now asking me to do something I've never had to do before, that I don't enjoy, specifically to prepare me for doing raids, which I could do if I wanted and don't enjoy. Anet is assume people don't raid because they're not good enough. People don't raid because raiding isn't fun for them. Strike missions aren't fun for me.

If this trend keeps up and Anet is going to require me to do something I don't like in every single zone that comes out in the Saga, I'm going to stop doing it. And if I stop doing the new zones, it's only a matter of time before I play the game less and less. It's very simple logic.

So:

  1. I don't believe strike missions will significantly increase the number of people raiding
  2. I don't believe the core game should change based on trying to get people to do an activity the community has already judged and say no to.
  3. I believe people will be disenfranchised by this change and will play less or leave the game, or spend less in the cash shop.

Hope that makes it more clear.

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@Jayden Reese.9542 said:Glad you tried a strike or 2 and nothing all to terrible happened. Now go finish the map and at some point I bet they drop some reqs off meta like they did for drakkar and holidays and that roller beetle race time limit etc.

You need like 7 achievements from Strike missions. I don't have those yet. I have to go back into Strike Missions to get the meta.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Zok.4956 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Also your perception and understanding of whales is quite incorrect. Players being whales has seldom to do with how much gold/currency they acquire in a game.

And again, you disagree with something, I did not even wrote. In fact I wrote:

@Zok.4956 said:And usually, the "whales" (the players that spent a lot of real money for the game) ...

see also:
->

You referenced whales, which you prefaced with comments about raiders and then directly commented how you did not believe raiders are a huge revenue stream for Arenanet. You were either very unclear and accidentally mixed up two different points.

Or you could just read and try to understand what I wrote instead of again arguing just for the sake of disagreeing about something what I did not wrote. Or just follow your own advice and just ignore what I am writing if you do not intend to put in the effort for proper debate.

Raiders earn gold and can convert gold to gems if they want to buy something with gems and very often they do not need to buy gems with real money. Whales on the other hand buy a lot of gems with real money because they do not make enough gold to convert it into all the gems they want.

Whales generate the main revenue stream in the gem-shop/microtransactions. The whales that I know are not raiders. The raiders (this includes myself) that I know are not whales. Raiders and whales are typically different player types. Of course it is possible, that there are raiders, that are also whales, but this would be a very small percentage of raiders and given the already small population of raiders in this game, it would be even less players, so this would not result in a significant revenue stream.

The population of raiders is so small at the moment, that Anet can not justify to invest money to create more raids. If the raid population would create a significant revenue stream, Anet would simply create more raids for this players and this revenue stream instead of creating strike-missions.

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@Jayden Reese.9542 said:

@Jayden Reese.9542 said:Glad you tried a strike or 2 and nothing all to terrible happened. Now go finish the map and at some point I bet they drop some reqs off meta like they did for drakkar and holidays and that roller beetle race time limit etc.

You need like 7 achievements from Strike missions. I don't have those yet. I have to go back into Strike Missions to get the meta.

Ya 7. I assume u got kodan not get downed only. I have 0 from jormag so if you got 1 from that you ahead. I'd do Kodan until I had all but up to you. Next week Fraenir kinda easy so you'll get 2 there at least and right when you get 37/37 anet will patch it down to 30/30 so you can look forward to that

Right or I can ignore it and send Anet a message that this is not really acceptable to me, and hope they don't keep doing it. Because I really don't want to. I didn't go for legendary armor, because I didnt' want to raid. I get that I can get it. It's not fun enough for me to bother, and that's an issue, no matter how you slice it. If they're trying to tain people for raids, I don't think it'll work. If they're trying to annoy people like me, it's worked.

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@Zok.4956 said:

@Zok.4956 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Also your perception and understanding of whales is quite incorrect. Players being whales has seldom to do with how much gold/currency they acquire in a game.

And again, you disagree with something, I did not even wrote. In fact I wrote:

@Zok.4956 said:And usually, the "whales" (the players that spent a lot of real money for the game) ...

see also:
->

You referenced whales, which you prefaced with comments about raiders and then directly commented how you did not believe raiders are a huge revenue stream for Arenanet. You were either very unclear and accidentally mixed up two different points.

Or you could just read and try to understand what I wrote instead of again arguing just for the sake of disagreeing about something what I did not wrote. Or just follow your own advice and just ignore what I am writing if you do not intend to put in the effort for proper debate.

Raiders earn gold and can convert gold to gems if they want to buy something with gems and very often they do not need to buy gems with real money. Whales on the other hand buy a lot of gems with real money because they do not make enough gold to convert it into all the gems they want.

Whales generate the main revenue stream in the gem-shop/microtransactions. The whales that I know are not raiders. The raiders (this includes myself) that I know are not whales. Raiders and whales are typically different player types. Of course it is possible, that there are raiders, that are also whales, but this would be a very small percentage of raiders and given the already small population of raiders in this game, it would be even less players, so this would not result in a significant revenue stream.

The population of raiders is so small at the moment, that Anet can not justify to invest money to create more raids. If the raid population would create a significant revenue stream, Anet would simply create more raids for this players and this revenue stream instead of creating strike-missions.

I'm not a raider, but I definitely believe I'm a whale.

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