Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Finally reached T4 fractals, but am confused about the people


Recommended Posts

So finally got my Personal Fractal level to 75 and can now use the T4 lfg..But i'm confused as to the sudden obsession with builds and metas and kill points etc that im seeing.(I have no intention on doing CM, so lets not discuss those so called "kill points" at all, "you do you boo" when it comes to that.).

Have been doing T3 for months, and you could clear anything with any pug teambuild there.

So i went and did T4 Molten Boss daily.I see people joining my team and immediately declaring if theyre dps or heal etc, while going into detail about their builds and how they play..And in my head im just like "guys...It's just Molten Boss...".You literally mop up some groups of mobs and fight those 2 guys at the end who are total pushovers... Why so serious...

Followed this frac up with Mai Trin a bit later, with a different team. Joined a team who was worried about their dps and heals, yet again... So I walked in there, tried once, won. Piece of cake, nothing special compared to earlier tiers except a few more mobs... (2 teammates died during 25% health phase, yet still i had time to revive both by just dodging bombs..so cant Possibly be that hard)

Aaanyway...Moving from T3, why is T4 suddenly so...robotic and tense? Where does the sudden obsession about efficiency come from, when the content itself isnt scaled up that much, particularly considering the "we NEED class x with build y for this" type arguments?

Almost tempted to just go back to T3 where its so chill. The T4 daily chests probably dont have anything more valuable in them anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 57
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I sorta agree with you, people are too obsessed with meta builds.Here soon people will start tell you to run those builds too, or the usual phrases "run your own lfg" or "state "relaxed run/non-meta builds" in your lfg description" sort of things, that's the truth and this attitude of most people is impossible to change, either your bear it or run away from that content.Oh and you can also follow those "advices" and state it in your own lfg, but it won't go well most of the times.

Link to post
Share on other sites

T4 Fractals are significant harder. Foes gain increased Health and deal more damage, as you already have experienced. There is also a 3rd Instability added, which can make things really anoying (like 300 % more damage from foes in combination with Vindicators and bleeding fire).

I would never run a T4 Fractal (except Solid Ocean) without a healer. You CAN do it without a healer, but having support makes things way more easier. As for the other things like Alacrene Renegade, Banner Warrior, Chrono, they also make T4 Fractals much more fun and smooth (you can run your T4 in far below 30 minutes), but not always will you find the "perfect" setup for your team. people are willing to spend minutes for searching, so they have a smooth run. You will also recognize that many people not only are Looking for T4 Fractals but also for CM (99 + 100). I would even say, there are more groups out there for CM + T4 as for just T4.

As for me: I am specifically looking for groups just for T4 or T4 + recs. I don't mind if we do not have a Chrono or Alacrene, but if a healer is missing, I will take that spot. I also don't care, if we have some "no meta classes" like Scrapper or Core Elementalist. However, this setup of classes may mean, that you have a harder and longer trip (which, and I repeat myself, I don't mind). However, most partys for the three T4 Fractals are so experienced that they know what to do (with some exceptions).

I recommend for you: Make your way up to 150 Agony Resistance and start looking for complete T4 partys. You will do fine for the most time, if everyone has enough AR and if there is a healer in the group. Watch out for Siren's Reef Fractal (Endboss encounter) and for Thaumanova (Subject 6). Both are huge group Killers at T4.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Andovar Edoras.2143" said:So i went and did T4 Molten Boss daily.I see people joining my team and immediately declaring if theyre dps or heal etc, while going into detail about their builds and how they play..And in my head im just like "guys...It's just Molten Boss...".You literally mop up some groups of mobs and fight those 2 guys at the end who are total pushovers... Why so serious...

Followed this frac up with Mai Trin a bit later, with a different team. Joined a team who was worried about their dps and heals, yet again... So I walked in there, tried once, won. Piece of cake, nothing special compared to earlier tiers except a few more mobs... (2 teammates died during 25% health phase, yet still i had time to revive both by just dodging bombs..so cant Possibly be that hard)

It depends on instabilities. Both had very easy ones today but pugkiller combinations do exist. also no pain no gain requires boon removal or you are dealing with perma protection.

Aaanyway...Moving from T3, why is T4 suddenly so...robotic and tense? Where does the sudden obsession about efficiency come from, when the content itself isnt scaled up that much, particularly considering the "we NEED class x with build y for this" type arguments?

I only see cm groups with such requirements. the dfference between a 300kp group and a regular t4 only is massive. the frst one can be up to three times as fast so everything can be done in 30min. maybe you just ran into the wrong group. normal t4 groups usually only want a healer.

Almost tempted to just go back to T3 where its so chill. The T4 daily chests probably dont have anything more valuable in them anyway.

They have a much higher chance on ascended weapons and armour and can drop an infusion worth a few hundred gold.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Because T4 are harder : foes with more hp, more fmg, some new or stronger mechanics, a third instability;And because for a big majority Fractals are now "Money" and not gameplay anymore, players just hope for a quick and safe run like they could have the last years; it means a composition with good dps, buffs, but also a possible package of utilities/bonus to avoid most of mechanics (stab, portals, anti-proj, resistance, unblockable skills etc). Healer, no healer, who cares. Different visions, safety or race.Some classes make a real difference compared with others : Burst/dps, support, boons, dmg buff, CC (if players play well (and it's not always the case sadly) but sometimes, I agree, it's more like "robotic and tense"/ Ignorance/copy-paste than will to learn and perform better in situation or save real time.

So sure, you can run fractals, even CM, with 5 good reapers if you want, or even alone; but after years and thousands of runs you might want to optimize your group and do not waste time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Andovar Edoras.2143" said:So finally got my Personal Fractal level to 75 and can now use the T4 lfg..But i'm confused as to the sudden obsession with builds and metas and kill points etc that im seeing.(I have no intention on doing CM, so lets not discuss those so called "kill points" at all, "you do you boo" when it comes to that.).

Have been doing T3 for months, and you could clear anything with any pug teambuild there.

So i went and did T4 Molten Boss daily.I see people joining my team and immediately declaring if theyre dps or heal etc, while going into detail about their builds and how they play..And in my head im just like "guys...It's just Molten Boss...".You literally mop up some groups of mobs and fight those 2 guys at the end who are total pushovers... Why so serious...

Followed this frac up with Mai Trin a bit later, with a different team. Joined a team who was worried about their dps and heals, yet again... So I walked in there, tried once, won. Piece of cake, nothing special compared to earlier tiers except a few more mobs... (2 teammates died during 25% health phase, yet still i had time to revive both by just dodging bombs..so cant Possibly be that hard)

Aaanyway...Moving from T3, why is T4 suddenly so...robotic and tense? Where does the sudden obsession about efficiency come from, when the content itself isnt scaled up that much, particularly considering the "we NEED class x with build y for this" type arguments?

Almost tempted to just go back to T3 where its so chill. The T4 daily chests probably dont have anything more valuable in them anyway.

Also possible that the meta supports kept you alive while you were doing all of this and you were simply unaware?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm also quite sure you were cleansed and healed so quickly that you simply didnt notice either of these happening, its very common and makes many people think the content is easier than it really is.

Depending on comp, the same instab that feels punishing can even be rewarding, like mobs stacking random condis but support runs condi to boon conversion.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stick around a while and get a T4 group where you don't have supports covering every mistake you make (oh the things I've seen as support from regular T4 players, even sometimes low skill CM groups).

Chance are high you joined a T4 group with decent players, likely being the weakest link but nobody caring. Wait until you join a group with similar skilled players, and everything doesn't work. Now have that happen multiple times and you'll either quit the content, or demand certain criteria too. Some T4 players have been running this content for years. Basically 10 times over the time it takes to get to fractal level 75, and far more beyond that.

Maybe install arcdps and have an eye on your own performance within the group. That's usually an eye opener for many.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Simple. With proper boons ur dps will go significantly higher so u can clear much faster and smoother. Also with healer, chance of wiping and losing Time May decrease as well. But as cyninja said, many PPL just hope, healer Will cover all their mistakes, so they dont care for whats actually happening around, and they usually do rly random stuff, so playing without healer May be beneficial for u

Link to post
Share on other sites

To add, I kept Myself alive, and didnt have someone do that for me. Noticed some here mentioning that maybe i just didnt notice being supported. In that sense i pay attention who is doing what.

I play renegade and actively change legends, a lot of the time focusing on survivability for myself and team. Dwarf for quick cc chain, 50% damage reduction ult, stability if needed and ofc the cleanse heal. Charr legend for that excellent lifesteal ult and aoe heal with condi damage reduction (This legend pair helps team survivability a lot imo; More survivability = more time being alive to fight). Demon if its one of those "more condis/outgoing resistance" instabilities. Ventari if its a heavy-projectile situation (rip molten facility rework..), particularly love using this for uncategorized/chaos vs knockbacks, or the laser stairs puzzle. Assassin legend for swamp or solid ocean running (dont like using this one in combat).

Oh And ofc sharing might and alacrity with the renegade spells.

Such versatility is what makes revenant fun for me and fractals completely doable.

And yes, i do my own LFGs almost always anyway. Its just weird to see someone join my party and take it so seriously, or being anxious about it (Hi im dps is that okay :(". And im Definitely not gonna start kicking someone just because theyre not 100% perfect.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, for whatever reason end game people are very obsessed with speedrunning even when lots of ppl don't have the skill, dedication, or even a small amount of the knowledge required to demand a speedrun group (especially from PUGs lol).

Some boons is nice and makes things fast ofc....that said...with a proper dps build u can still do a VERY significant amount of damage with only self gen boons - it goes faster with boons, but not brain killingly slow. Though, expecting proper builds from PUGs lol. I do consider a "healer" mandatory for t4, but as long as the instabilites aren't too bad i (personally) don't think a group needs that much of a healer. There's a few fractals where i definitely want a dedicated healer though, no matter what healer they are - sirens reef, twilight oasis. And a few fractals that don't quite need a healer per se, but go much easier with specific utility in the group - often times any old CFB who knows what types of CC, boons and other defensive effects are across their utilities (syg, mi, reflects) + tome 3 can carry harder than dedicated healers with much less available to them (like heal ren) on this front, ofc u don't need a firebrand - just knowledge of ones utilities.

That said, to anyone who does dalies everyday - people whom I personally consider to be insane - taking +10 mins on each fractal is a significant increase in time, taking +20 mins on each fractal is even worse, so I can understand the desire for strict meta and exact same 2 supports. Doesn't match what I think & want to play like, but then I just don't join those groups - the deeply ingrained speedrunning mindsets and the average PUGs are why i don't even do t4s unless it's a group of friends.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Andovar Edoras.2143" said:To add, I kept Myself alive, and didnt have someone do that for me. Noticed some here mentioning that maybe i just didnt notice being supported. In that sense i pay attention who is doing what.

I play renegade and actively change legends, a lot of the time focusing on survivability for myself and team. Dwarf for quick cc chain, 50% damage reduction ult, stability if needed and ofc the cleanse heal. Charr legend for that excellent lifesteal ult and aoe heal with condi damage reduction (This legend pair helps team survivability a lot imo; More survivability = more time being alive to fight). Demon if its one of those "more condis/outgoing resistance" instabilities. Ventari if its a heavy-projectile situation (rip molten facility rework..), particularly love using this for uncategorized/chaos vs knockbacks, or the laser stairs puzzle. Assassin legend for swamp or solid ocean running (dont like using this one in combat).

Oh And ofc sharing might and alacrity with the renegade spells.

I'm sorry, nothing which you mention here is in any way special, or shows an extended knowledge of your class. Literally everything you mentioned is basic knowledge for intermediate renegades.

I mentioned this already, install arc and keep an eye on where your performance actually is (not only damage but also alacrity and might uptime). If you are performing that well, this should be a non issue for you.

Also as mentioned, most regular T4 groups are rather lax in their requirements. Don't lump those groups together with the CM groups. Most T4 groups don't even bother with getting a renegade for alacrity and only care about a basic healer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats cause T4s are a farm that people dont want to be stuck on for a prolonged amount of time.Myself included tbh. If T4s take longer than 30minutes (basically the time my food lasts), I start to become a tad annoyed.Meta-gaming is just a way people make sure to run in a optimal setup to make the run as smooth and fast as possible.

Altho, you are very right. Some people take it to the extreme.People certainly overvalue super-optimized setups. Like HFB, Alac-Renegade, BS + 2DPS.

Alacrity Renegade and to a similar (but more minor) extend, Banner-Warriors are imo NOT needed for a good T4 group.While it is true that Alacrity smooths out certain DPS-rotations for some classes/specs, I think it is vastly overrated for T4s.From personal experience (and I run T4s almost daily, for years now) Alacrity Renegade pulls so little personal DPS, that the group dps-boost from 5 man Alacrity actually doesnt compensate it. Substituting the Renegade for an ACTUAL DPS usually is the more efficient way, I found.Obviously renegade has other utility qualities that make it a nice addition to the grp (like Kalla elite, very good CC or boonstrip and stab depending on second legend), but for 5 man settings its not very mandatory.

Same goes for BannerSlave warriors. Sure, Banners are nice and all....but not really that high-value in a 5man setting.(Banner of Discipline is a great example, since the bonus crit% doesnt really matter a whole lot in fractals since most DPS specs critcap from potions alone anyway).But since a Banner Warrior also brings nutty personal DPS, this is certainly not something I mind having in my grps.

Ultimately, at least for me, a good T4 grp has to bring these things:-Perma Quickness-Perma Fury-Perma 25 Might-1 Healer (since it trivializes most encounters)

Thats it. No need for Banners or Alacrity or Spirits....Which basically means 1 HFB and 4 DPS.Id rather spend less time in the lfg and finish the Fractals in ~30 minute, than w8 15 minutes for the perfect grp comp and clearing the Fractals in ~25minutes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

T4 groups are usually one of two kinds: A) groups where people can't do the mechanics at all and need supports to soft carry them. These are also obsessed with DPS and are probably at least mediocre at dealing damage, for if they don't skip the mechanics this way they will need to keep resetting the fights (as they can't adapt to dodging the mechanics once the mayhem starts). and B ) groups where people are more than good enough to adapt to any situation at all and do mechanics, but are low key tired of the game, or want to farm as fast as possible, or actually enjoy min-maxing and speedrunning. All of these will still want to play meta builds and get done with it all as fast as possible.

You can create your own groups asking for nothing in particular and probably get them filled up fast because aside from the aforementioned organized groups, there is a reasonable amount of singled out players who have no particular intention when approaching their fractal dailies.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Andovar Edoras.2143" said:To add, I kept Myself alive, and didnt have someone do that for me. Noticed some here mentioning that maybe i just didnt notice being supported. In that sense i pay attention who is doing what.

I play renegade and actively change legends, a lot of the time focusing on survivability for myself and team. Dwarf for quick cc chain, 50% damage reduction ult, stability if needed and ofc the cleanse heal. Charr legend for that excellent lifesteal ult and aoe heal with condi damage reduction (This legend pair helps team survivability a lot imo; More survivability = more time being alive to fight). Demon if its one of those "more condis/outgoing resistance" instabilities. Ventari if its a heavy-projectile situation (rip molten facility rework..), particularly love using this for uncategorized/chaos vs knockbacks, or the laser stairs puzzle. Assassin legend for swamp or solid ocean running (dont like using this one in combat).

Oh And ofc sharing might and alacrity with the renegade spells.

I'm sorry, nothing which you mention here is in any way special, or shows an extended knowledge of your class. Literally everything you mentioned is basic knowledge for intermediate renegades.

I mentioned this already, install arc and keep an eye on where your performance actually is (not only damage but also alacrity and might uptime). If you are performing that well, this should be a non issue for you.

Also as mentioned, most regular T4 groups are rather lax in their requirements. Don't lump those groups together with the CM groups. Most T4 groups don't even bother with getting a renegade for alacrity and only care about a basic healer.

Exactly, theres nothing special to it because that has always been sufficient. Adaptability imo is the whole idea behind the revenant. Just like other classes have their own self-sufficient playstyles. I can keep myself alive, others alive, and deal plenty of damage.I will not be downloading any meters, since i really dont care about the detailed numbers and am not looking to optimize myself into some sort of a machine. As long as the team survives and enemy dies, it is a-okay for me.

And overall to this topic: Personally i take it chill and cba with that hardcore perfection nonsense (staying away from those lfg groups), but it makes me sad to see Others feel so pressured to present themselves as ideal teammates.. It's a fractal, not a career job interview...

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Zenix.6198 said:While it is true that Alacrity smooths out certain DPS-rotations for some classes/specs, I think it is vastly overrated for T4s.From personal experience (and I run T4s almost daily, for years now) Alacrity Renegade pulls so little personal DPS, that the group dps-boost from 5 man Alacrity actually doesnt compensate it. Substituting the Renegade for an ACTUAL DPS usually is the more efficient way, I found.

Thats because most rens don't know how to play and just keep kalla up and auto attack. A good ren can outdamage bad dps players and alacrity is a significant dps boost and ren also brings 10might + 150 ferocity.

Same goes for BannerSlave warriors. Sure, Banners are nice and all....but not really that high-value in a 5man setting.(Banner of Discipline is a great example, since the bonus crit% doesnt really matter a whole lot in fractals since most DPS specs critcap from potions alone anyway).But since a Banner Warrior also brings nutty personal DPS, this is certainly not something I mind having in my grps.

Only very few builds critcap with potions. reapers and holos for example. but this is stuff i would only care about in a cm group since damage shortens them quite a lot.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Andovar Edoras.2143 said:

@Andovar Edoras.2143 said:To add, I kept Myself alive, and didnt have someone do that for me. Noticed some here mentioning that maybe i just didnt notice being supported. In that sense i pay attention who is doing what.

I play renegade and actively change legends, a lot of the time focusing on survivability for myself and team. Dwarf for quick cc chain, 50% damage reduction ult, stability if needed and ofc the cleanse heal. Charr legend for that excellent lifesteal ult and aoe heal with condi damage reduction (This legend pair helps team survivability a lot imo; More survivability = more time being alive to fight). Demon if its one of those "more condis/outgoing resistance" instabilities. Ventari if its a heavy-projectile situation (rip molten facility rework..), particularly love using this for uncategorized/chaos vs knockbacks, or the laser stairs puzzle. Assassin legend for swamp or solid ocean running (dont like using this one in combat).

Oh And ofc sharing might and alacrity with the renegade spells.

I'm sorry, nothing which you mention here is in any way special, or shows an extended knowledge of your class. Literally everything you mentioned is basic knowledge for intermediate renegades.

I mentioned this already, install arc and keep an eye on where your performance actually is (not only damage but also alacrity and might uptime). If you are performing that well, this should be a non issue for you.

Also as mentioned, most regular T4 groups are rather lax in their requirements. Don't lump those groups together with the CM groups. Most T4 groups don't even bother with getting a renegade for alacrity and only care about a basic healer.

Exactly, theres nothing special to it because that has always been sufficient. Adaptability imo is the whole idea behind the revenant. Just like other classes have their own self-sufficient playstyles. I can keep myself alive, others alive, and deal plenty of damage.I will not be downloading any meters, since i really dont care about the detailed numbers and am not looking to optimize myself into some sort of a machine. As long as the team survives and enemy dies, it is a-okay for me.

Which is fine, but you are coming here complaining others are interested in a smooth experience, while you yourself are unwilling to even check if and how much you contributed to such a smooth run. Suffice to say, not every T4 run is smooth and that's when the blame game starts.

Different players have different expectations. The next person might come and argue: well why should I be playing a meta class, which happens often enough.

The simple reality is: if content is challenging for some players, gating will happen. The more challenging the content, the more harsher the gating.

@Andovar Edoras.2143 said:And overall to this topic: Personally i take it chill and cba with that hardcore perfection nonsense (staying away from those lfg groups), but it makes me sad to see Others feel so pressured to present themselves as ideal teammates.. It's a fractal, not a career job interview...

Which again is perfectly fine, and I applaud the fact that you are making your own groups. Base T4 fractals are not that hard to begin with, and even CMs are easy once you know them by heart, yet some players are challenged by this content. This is reflected in the way more lax requirements for T4 fractals versus CM groups for example.

Different players approach this content in different ways:I've for example experienced a player "gg" over 10 times, forcing the group to restart the fight, only because he messed up his opening rotation in a 300+KP CM group. Not necessarily something I would do, and it was getting a bit annoying from a pure time lost perspective, but the group respected his decision and we had saved tons of time earlier in the run.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Zenix.6198" said:Same goes for BannerSlave warriors. Sure, Banners are nice and all....but not really that high-value in a 5man setting.(Banner of Discipline is a great example, since the bonus crit% doesnt really matter a whole lot in fractals since most DPS specs critcap from potions alone anyway).But since a Banner Warrior also brings nutty personal DPS, this is certainly not something I mind having in my grps.

I don't agree. On the last monts, particulary after the nerf of precast traps (You can't cast 5 traps, go FB, then go back DH) I've seen a lot of berserker "banner slave" perform better than any other DPS.That why I don't understand why people don't want berserker as "DPS" besides an other BS.Take the short fight build (a physical skill rather than a rage skill + may be the +5sec trait over the burning) : good job you have brainless insane DPS and Burst for CMs and most encounters.zeal FB + ren can assure >20 Vulnerability, others will help with the last ones; so DH is not that necessary. And in my experience most of them don't know their rotation or the lack of alacrity mess it up.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As someone who used to do T4 fractals without healers 3 years ago, Kitty's felt like lots of people have got ascended geared through raids and then went into T4 fractals with their friends and since healers and certain boons are considered a must due to those being required in raids and raiding dpsers have usually had healers covering up for their mistakes (read: carrying them), the influx of raiders to T4 fractals combined with increased difficulty of ShattObs, Twilight Oasis and Siren's Reef compared to older fractals has led to people requiring typical raid comps to, like so usual for raids, kill stuffs before they do anything 'cause "taking longer to kill the boss means more chances for mechanics to kill the squad". (Just learn them mechs dammit.)

Though, to make matters worse, people have at some point discovered how broken strong healbrand is at carrying mechs-eating glass cannons in fractals and now essentially 80% of squads (at least on NA) require a healbrand to carry them through. And that's led to one of Kitty's new catchphrases "Healbrand is the healscourge of fractals." as people tend to yell "we need a healscourge!" whenever they start wiping to failing mechs in raids (and they don't actually even know how broken strong healscourge truly is as only those who've seen Kitty's vids know its true potential).

Apologies for such a toxic-sounding post but Kitty's kinda already got frustrated at people failing mechs and requiring that same boring comp time and time again due to getting too used to having every mechs blocked. And she's only become active fractaler again 1,5 weeks ago. Essentially, boons are nice, healer is even nicer but if peoples actually know their stuff, neither are truly needed to clear the dailies in reasonable time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Zenix.6198 said:Thats cause T4s are a farm that people dont want to be stuck on for a prolonged amount of time.Myself included tbh. If T4s take longer than 30minutes (basically the time my food lasts), I start to become a tad annoyed.Meta-gaming is just a way people make sure to run in a optimal setup to make the run as smooth and fast as possible.

Altho, you are very right. Some people take it to the extreme.People certainly overvalue super-optimized setups. Like HFB, Alac-Renegade, BS + 2DPS.

Alacrity Renegade and to a similar (but more minor) extend, Banner-Warriors are imo NOT needed for a good T4 group.While it is true that Alacrity smooths out certain DPS-rotations for some classes/specs, I think it is vastly overrated for T4s.From personal experience (and I run T4s almost daily, for years now) Alacrity Renegade pulls so little personal DPS, that the group dps-boost from 5 man Alacrity actually doesnt compensate it. Substituting the Renegade for an ACTUAL DPS usually is the more efficient way, I found.Obviously renegade has other utility qualities that make it a nice addition to the grp (like Kalla elite, very good CC or boonstrip and stab depending on second legend), but for 5 man settings its not very mandatory.

Same goes for BannerSlave warriors. Sure, Banners are nice and all....but not really that high-value in a 5man setting.(Banner of Discipline is a great example, since the bonus crit% doesnt really matter a whole lot in fractals since most DPS specs critcap from potions alone anyway).But since a Banner Warrior also brings nutty personal DPS, this is certainly not something I mind having in my grps.

Ultimately, at least for me, a good T4 grp has to bring these things:-Perma Quickness-Perma Fury-Perma 25 Might-1 Healer (since it trivializes most encounters)

Thats it. No need for Banners or Alacrity or Spirits....Which basically means 1 HFB and 4 DPS.Id rather spend less time in the lfg and finish the Fractals in ~30 minute, than w8 15 minutes for the perfect grp comp and clearing the Fractals in ~25minutes.

My brain hurts

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

@"Zenix.6198" said:Same goes for BannerSlave warriors. Sure, Banners are nice and all....but not really that high-value in a 5man setting.(Banner of Discipline is a great example, since the bonus crit% doesnt really matter a whole lot in fractals since most DPS specs critcap from potions alone anyway).But since a Banner Warrior also brings nutty personal DPS, this is certainly not something I mind having in my grps.

I don't agree. On the last monts, particulary after the nerf of precast traps (You can't cast 5 traps, go FB, then go back DH) I've seen a lot of berserker "banner slave" perform better than any other DPS.That why I don't understand why people don't want berserker as "DPS" besides an other BS.Take the short fight build (a physical skill rather than a rage skill + may be the +5sec trait over the burning) : good job you have brainless insane DPS and Burst for CMs and most encounters.zeal FB + ren can assure >20 Vulnerability, others will help with the last ones; so DH is not that necessary. And in my experience most of them don't know their rotation or the lack of alacrity mess it up.

Yes, Berserker is definitely worth it, I completely agree.But not necessarily mandatory, imo.

As for the whole renegade argument.I had a pretty decent grp today (pugging) for my CMs + T4s and took a screenshot after Ensyloss (99 Frac).

CbtFdTG.png

Some napkin-math:

First off, lets assume the other Ele has the same dps as me.Then, the grp dps (without the healer) would be around: 21.4 +21.4 + 13.4+ 6.7 = 62.9K DPS

If we are very generous and assume an Alacrigade boosts each grp members dps by about ~15% (from alacrity and Kalla Elite), everybody would effectively have lower dps.So the two ele's 21.4ks go down to ~18.6k and the Warrior deals only ~11.7k.We replace the Renegade with another high DPS class that also deals (for arguments sake) 18.6k Dps.

Then we get a grp dps of: 18.6 + 18.6 + 18.6 + 11.7 = 67.5k DPSSo HIGHER than with the alacrigade.

Even if we factor in the additional vuln and what else have you (which a lot of classes can provide) and maybe even say we have slightly better boon uptime cause the Alacrity helps our support with that ....I genuinely dont think it matters much for a 5 man setting. Especially in fractals, where encounters last maybe ~2 minutes.

Edit:After playing around with those numbers some more:Bringing an Alacrigade would have to increase the DPS of each party member by about ~24% to break even with just bringing another DPS instead.(Again, For a 5 man setting). Which imo just isnt realistic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...