Guardian Hammer is useless

[Guirssane.7082]

19 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Allowing people to play how they want ... that's the point. I mean, sure, if you want to be predictable in PVP ... by all means, play what everyone else does. Just don't start complaining when you lose against good players that can predict your moves. 

 

That's actually not an unreasonable question though ... maybe you should also read some more of the posts of others that use it to get some insight to your question. 

You know when the meta is settled you don't have much choice but playing the good/strong build if you wanna climb. Cause above plat players will abuse it and you're stuck with a meme build against great build and good players. And even radiance GS isn't considered to be a "great" build.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Guirssane.7082

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

You know when the meta is settled you don't have much choice but playing the good/strong build if you wanna climb. Cause above plat players will abuse it and you're stuck with a meme build against great build and good players.

OK, but lots of people play for reasons that have nothing to do with the meta. I mean, are you telling me Hammer needs to be changed to be meta now? I can assure that's not sensible since not everything can be meta. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Guirssane.7082]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK, but lots of people play for reasons that have nothing to do with the meta. I mean, are you telling me Hammer needs to be changed to be meta now? I can assure that's not sensible. 

I never said that

[Guirssane.7082]

14 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

OK so what are you saying? You talk about how important it is to play meta to be successful. Seems to me if you are saying hammer needs to change so it's meta to be successful with it ... if you aren't saying that, then what's your point?

 

Again, you are asking me what the point is of playing Hammer if GS is better. Do yourself a favour and read the thread if you want the answer to that. Don't sit there and try to argue with me that the people that choose hammer even though GS is better are wrong to do so.

 

If you are going to try to sneak in the idea that not meta is equivalent to useless, we don't have anything to say to each other because there are more choices in this game than there are places for those choices to be meta. Therefore, not being meta isn't a reason to change something ... it's trivial as a reason. 

I'm just saying that at the moment there is not point playing hammer when GS is just superior in terms of mobility and animation. If you're playing for fun and don't care about tryharding or climbing hammer is a perfectly fine weapon but above plat 1 you won't be able to do good. Radiance GS is already in a tough spot so...

Edited September 3, 2021 by Guirssane.7082

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

I'm just saying that at the moment there is not point playing hammer when GS is just superior in terms of mobility and animation. If you're playing for fun and don't care about tryharding or climbing hammer is a perfectly fine weapon but above plat 1 you won't be able to do good. Radiance GS is already in a tough spot so...

And I'm telling you there is a point to playing something if another thing is superior to it. Whether you think using hammer in PVP doesn't get you above plat 1 or not is irrelevant to that. Again, something not being optimal isn't a reason to buff it because not everything has to be optimal.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Guirssane.7082]

41 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

And I'm telling you there is a point to playing something if another thing is superior to it. Whether you think using hammer in PVP doesn't get you above plat 1 or not is irrelevant to that. Again, something not being optimal isn't a reason to buff it because not everything has to be optimal.

 

 

 

 

By any mean go play hammer and have fun with it, I know I won't :d

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Guirssane.7082 said:

By any mean go play hammer and have fun with it, I know I won't :d

Not a problem. Not for me or other people that use it either. Let's be clear here, I got issues with Hammer, but certainly not because 'useless' or 'not optimal'. That's just ridiculous. 

[Zenith.7301]

All classes have a bunch of useless weapons that barely see any use. Do you think Necromancers enjoy staff or mainhand or offhand dagger being dead weapons in PvE? Or mesmer basically never using scepter? Or revenant never using their shield? Or thieves never using pistol/pistol?

[cat.8975]

If a class has a bad weapon, that weapon should be buffed until it's competitive with the rest of them.

[Math.5123]

21 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

All classes have a bunch of useless weapons that barely see any use. Do you think Necromancers enjoy staff or mainhand or offhand dagger being dead weapons in PvE? Or mesmer basically never using scepter? Or revenant never using their shield? Or thieves never using pistol/pistol?

Healscourge used MH Dagger in raids. Offhand dagger is meta for scourge and reaper in wvw / gvg and staff is meta for every necro pvp build. 

[Math.5123]

On 9/3/2021 at 2:31 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

And I'm telling you there is a point to playing something if another thing is superior to it. Whether you think using hammer in PVP doesn't get you above plat 1 or not is irrelevant to that. Again, something not being optimal isn't a reason to buff it because not everything has to be optimal.

 

 

 

 

It's not even about being optimal, it's about being able to do something that any other weapon can't already do better. About finding a niche if you will. 

 

Axe / Scepter - shield has better CC, more damage and better breakbar damage than hammer. It's also a ranged weapon set that gives more sustain through aegis.

 

If you want a melee cleave weapon, gs is superior in just about every aspect. 

 

The whole "play what you want" is a viable aspect for some people, namely open world pve and public squad play. But anything remotely competitive, be it raids, fractals, pvp or wvw; the weapon just isn't being used with success. 

I made the 2018 hammer radiance build and was one of the, if not the highest rated dps guardian on eu at the time, so I'm a huge advocate of hammer being at least decent. Right now, it just isn't. 

 

There isn't a single redeemable factor about it. 

The AA is slow, clunky and the damage isn't even that great. (Both Scepter and Axe does more damage)

Mighty blow simply has too long of a cd for what it does. It gets blocked by aegis, negated by blind. Has a long cast time and a long aftercast and the damage is once again, not great. 

Zealots embrace gets buried in terrain and it has the same tracking issues as sword 3 and torch 4 in that it can't hit elevated targets. 

Banish is slow, single hit and single target. Once again negated by a single blind or aegis. It launches too far to be able to follow up with any meaningful damage. 

Ring Of Warding, the only semi useful skill when catching enemies without stab. But even then, it has an internal cooldown of .25 seconds. This means you can get out of the ring by stumbreaking alone. 

 

The weapon was a breakbar beast when hammer 5 border continuously broke the bar as long as the hitbox remained inside. But that's long gone. 

[Obtena.7952]

9 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

It's not even about being optimal, it's about being able to do something that any other weapon can't already do better. About finding a niche if you will. 

Yet people still play hammer ... hum .. so what a weapon does CAN'T just be about optimal and having a niche. Hammer doesn't have one redeemable factor? I guess the PSA didn't get out to the people that use it. I'm sure if you were to tell them why, they would drop it immediately. 🙄

 

But more seriously here, if y'all take a step back from being sensational about all the things hammer doesn't do, you already gave the answer ... it's viable to the people that want to use it, for the reason they want to use it. Hammer isn't without it's problems, but they have nothing to do with not being a preferred choice because of performance. 

 

I get it ... people think the theme of smashing people around with a hammer is cool. I think so to, but there are no requirements in this game to ensure it's 'niche' and if it's not, it's some problem. Here is the best part though ... we know Anet looks at the frequency of use for classes, skills, weapons ... and if what people say are true, Hammer might get it's day in the sun .... but NOT because it's 'useless'. It does have use and even if it doesn't fill a niche because X does this and Y does that, it has a combination of skills on it that conceptually, are very useful. 

 

IMO, the argument to fix hammer isn't performance, it's gameplay and that unsupported Ward skill. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Zenith.7301]

13 hours ago, Math.5123 said:

Healscourge used MH Dagger in raids. Offhand dagger is meta for scourge and reaper in wvw / gvg and staff is meta for every necro pvp build. 

Way to read. I said PvE. As a PvE'r, who gives a kitten that pvp builds use it if you despise the format and have no intention of playing it? Guardian hammer is also situationally used in pvp, but that is cold comfort to those who want to use it outside pvp.

[Virdo.1540]

Hammer is decent from guardian. Not meta, but not bad either. 

Its the main core of the Metabattle Low-Intensity Build of Guard, which are always good things. 

 

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_LI_Hammer

[Aeolus.3615]

 

On 9/6/2021 at 5:45 PM, Virdo.1540 said:

Hammer is decent from guardian. Not meta, but not bad either. 

Its the main core of the Metabattle Low-Intensity Build of Guard, which are always good things. 

 

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_LI_Hammer

 

Mediguard with hammer is decent as well, WB with hammer felt supper fun, the amout of KB, KD, and persue KB target over and over,  WB with meditation and a hammer fet decent as well.

 

Hammer on guardian needs just some slightly weapons speed increase on autos  and hammer 5 need to happens faster IMO.

 

 

It is just not meta cause cause nonne of the skill carry  

Edited September 8, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[Kikk Dorr.5341]

In low tiers you can kill your enemies with just about any weapon. Hammer is a FUN weapon, but there is no reason you would ever choose it over other weapons for any other purpose. I'd argue that it isn't about making hammer meta, but making it be more than just a fun choice. 

 

Admittedly it is used in an LI build, but it shouldn't be evaluated solely from its performance there. 

 

One idea i had to help "fix" hammer is to add a second ability to the banish skill where you charge dealing damage through the charge path. This would allow some form of followup to the knockback while also giving hammer some more much needed dps

[Nezekan.2671]

I didn't have a lot of time to test, but hammer was actually decent on willbender. Willbender mobility pairs well with hammer's lack of any mobility and slowness. It wasn't perfect or anything, but definitely better than core, Dragonhunter and Firebrand when it came to hammer.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 9/9/2021 at 8:12 AM, Kikk Dorr.5341 said:

In low tiers you can kill your enemies with just about any weapon. Hammer is a FUN weapon, but there is no reason you would ever choose it over other weapons for any other purpose. I'd argue that it isn't about making hammer meta, but making it be more than just a fun choice. 

 

Admittedly it is used in an LI build, but it shouldn't be evaluated solely from its performance there. 

 

One idea i had to help "fix" hammer is to add a second ability to the banish skill where you charge dealing damage through the charge path. This would allow some form of followup to the knockback while also giving hammer some more much needed dps

 

I think Anet wanted players to play chill guardians with the should runes  of the reaper something like that :|

[Acyk.9671]

deleted

Edited April 3, 2022 by Acyk.9671

[Skyline Crash.6254]

literally just make the hammer 1 strike 3 faster and it would be fine. LITERALLY THATS IT. nerf the symbol duration/damage WHATEVER just holy kitten please make it faster

[Exile.8160]

On 9/13/2021 at 5:56 PM, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

I think Anet wanted players to play chill guardians with the should runes  of the reaper something like that 😐

 

If only they gave us more frost mechanincs a chill guard sounds amazing btw.

[Axl.8924]

Those of you who are more skilled i have a question: From the new spec Willbender Is there a way to get quickness or alacricity?
I was thinking about what you guys are talking about with hammer since willbender has that ice thing from hammer 3 i think it was? 

[Aeolus.3615]

4 hours ago, Axl.8924 said:

Those of you who are more skilled i have a question: From the new spec Willbender Is there a way to get quickness or alacricity?
I was thinking about what you guys are talking about with hammer since willbender has that ice thing from hammer 3 i think it was? 

Pheonix protocol.

 

I imagine this skill be in pair with was tested, u can use the editor for theorycrafting http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWAYafZH7A-e

[InsaneQR.7412]

Tbh i would love if the AA would be faster and the Symbol would be on the hammer jump on two.

They could even make the symbol pulsing chill with the Hammer trait.

 

Making 5 ground targeted ranged and let the immob affect a conal area in front of you would also be really cool.

[Gwaihir.1745]

On 9/13/2021 at 4:44 AM, Nezekan.2671 said:

I didn't have a lot of time to test, but hammer was actually decent on willbender. Willbender mobility pairs well with hammer's lack of any mobility and slowness. It wasn't perfect or anything, but definitely better than core, Dragonhunter and Firebrand when it came to hammer.

That doesnt seem accurate? Willbender gets its power from rapid, swift attacks to proc your 5 hit virtues. Guardian hammer is one of the slowest weapons in the game with 3 skills that are a single hit and 1 that doesn't deal damage. The autoattacks are slow and youll rarely get the symbol to land in wvw/pvp and even pve mobs can just walk off it quite regularly. Too few hits to proc the only thing willbender did well.