[Ranked] Revenge Of The Capricorn

[The Light In The Darkness.1619482237]

Absolute kitten map what the hell is this ? It should be hotjoin only at the very last.If there is a major balance to do it would be to remove this kitten map out of the ranked / unranked rotation.

[hotte in space.2158]

Absolute kitten thread what the hell is this ?Its a particular map and thats the way it should be. Fighting on bell node is big fun. I like it.

[mortrialus.3062]

I agree, I think Capricorn is easily the worst ranked map right now. I'm just going to copy and paste my comments about it from a different thread:

Revenge of the Capricorn: My least favorite map in ranked currently. The individual nodes are all solidly designed. It's gorgeous, but I think this might have the worst layout outside of Spirit Watch. For starters, the initial far push is basically impossible. I mean its not impossible but you really only have two routes, either the long way swinging through home or by literally cutting through the team fight as it opens, potentially forcing multiple cooldowns to get that far push. Now imagine you're the player on home and your team wipes before you can even get to mid. In other maps like Skyhammer and Forest and Temple you can push far in relative safety with solid amounts of Line of Sight to hide you and terrain to use as you push that way. If you team wipes and you try to push far the entire mid fight can see you and if any one is paying attention you're already in range to be stolen onto, phase traversed onto, and judges intervention onto making a decap attempt extremely punishing. And even if the mid fight doesn't immediately rush you, you're running right into the enemy who got home and there's little capacity to actually sneak past him. Compare to Temple where if you're sneaky and patient you can use the back door to quickly decap the point right from under the enemy's node as they leave the point when they finish capping.

In addition, while Bell is a solid mechanic I think the actual node on bell is just really unfun to fight on. It's a meatgrinder and without any sort of line of sight and a hilariously inadequate jumping platform it just massively favors team fighters because there's almost no terrain you can use to stall a fight here. Even Skyhammer has the panels on the side of the node for line of sight.

Right now Capricorn is the single most snowbally and swingiest map in the game. At the same time. This sounds contradictory but it's true. While Bell is a solid map mechanic and does decide games, what really decides this map is how boxed in the team that lost the last engagement is. Your capacity to recover with a far push that baits a favorable 1v1 or even a 2v1 you can stall while your other teammates try to recover is just so low. You have two options most of the time; you go home or you go mid. This means Capricorn snowballs harder than any map as often times teams just don't have any capacity to break through the choke points. On the other hand, I've also seen the most extreme and wild swings on this map. And when this happens it's usually some sort of upset at mid or home while you've been losing, and then once you've gotten that foothold your enemy can't break through the choke points.

I think if the giant buildings had entrances could actually be walked into allowing you to cut diagonally from your spawn to far without having to try and cut through the mid fight, it would really help with the layout problems. Maybe make Bell's node a bit bigger with just a little bit more terrain to use, more similar to the Tranq area where if you're skilled you can get a lot of mileage while outnumbered stalling against the enemy team while you wait for reinforcements.

[The Light In The Darkness.1619482237]

@hotte in space.2158 said:Absolute kitten thread what the hell is this ?Its a particular map and thats the way it should be. Fighting on bell node is big fun. I like it.

I'm saying that revenge of capricorn and djinn's dominion should both be separate game modes. Stronghold used to be in ranked rotations and they removed it.Things will change ...

[The Light In The Darkness.1619482237]

@mortrialus.3062 said:I agree, I think Capricorn is easily the worst ranked map right now. I'm just going to copy and paste my comments about it from a different thread:

Revenge of the Capricorn: My least favorite map in ranked currently. The individual nodes are all solidly designed. It's gorgeous, but I think this might have the worst layout outside of Spirit Watch. For starters, the initial far push is basically impossible. I mean its not impossible but you really only have two routes, either the long way swinging through home or by literally cutting through the team fight as it opens, potentially forcing multiple cooldowns to get that far push. Now imagine you're the player on home and your team wipes before you can even get to mid. In other maps like Skyhammer and Forest and Temple you can push far in relative safety with solid amounts of Line of Sight to hide you and terrain to use as you push that way. If you team wipes and you try to push far the entire mid fight can see you and if any one is paying attention you're already in range to be stolen onto, phase traversed onto, and judges intervention onto making a decap attempt extremely punishing. And even if the mid fight doesn't immediately rush you, you're running right into the enemy who got home and there's little capacity to actually sneak past him. Compare to Temple where if you're sneaky and patient you can use the back door to quickly decap the point right from under the enemy's node as they leave the point when they finish capping.

In addition, while Bell is a solid mechanic I think the actual node on bell is just really unfun to fight on. It's a meatgrinder and without any sort of line of sight and a hilariously inadequate jumping platform it just massively favors team fighters because there's almost no terrain you can use to stall a fight here. Even Skyhammer has the panels on the side of the node for line of sight.

Right now Capricorn is the single most snowbally and swingiest map in the game. At the same time. This sounds contradictory but it's true. While Bell is a solid map mechanic and does decide games, what really decides this map is how boxed in the team that lost the last engagement is. Your capacity to recover with a far push that baits a favorable 1v1 or even a 2v1 you can stall while your other teammates try to recover is just so low. You have two options most of the time; you go home or you go mid. This means Capricorn snowballs harder than any map as often times teams just don't have any capacity to break through the choke points. On the other hand, I've also seen the most extreme and wild swings on this map. And when this happens it's usually some sort of upset at mid or home while you've been losing, and then once you've gotten that foothold your enemy can't break through the choke points.

I think if the giant buildings had entrances could actually be walked into allowing you to cut diagonally from your spawn to far without having to try and cut through the mid fight, it would really help with the layout problems. Maybe make Bell's node a bit bigger with just a little bit more terrain to use, more similar to the Tranq area where if you're skilled you can get a lot of mileage while outnumbered stalling against the enemy team while you wait for reinforcements.

I 100% agree with that statement and sorry if i've been lazy to use the search function : )

[hotte in space.2158]

@"The Light In The Darkness.6742" said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:

I'm saying that revenge of capricorn and djinn's dominion should both be separate game modes. Stronghold used to be in ranked rotations and they removed it.Things will change ...

But what are your arguments why revenge of capricorn should be deleted ?

[The Light In The Darkness.1619482237]

@hotte in space.2158 said:

@"The Light In The Darkness.6742" said:

@hotte in space.2158 said:

I'm saying that revenge of capricorn and djinn's dominion should both be separate game modes. Stronghold used to be in ranked rotations and they removed it.Things will change ...

But what are your arguments why revenge of capricorn should be deleted ?

It should not be deleted i said it should be a different game mode and not in ranked maps rotations because the map is just too big.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@hotte in space.2158 said:Absolute kitten thread what the hell is this ?Its a particular map and thats the way it should be. Fighting on bell node is big fun. I like it.

thief main disliking the fact that capricorn revolves around team fights

[Fueki.4753]

It's one of the only three good maps in ranked, together with Coliseum and the Djinn one, and you want to remove it?The bad and terrible maps already are coming up too often.

[Tycura.1982]

Capperkorn is a swoll map that gives more value to team fighters. Just as Colosseum gives more value to roamers and horizontal mobility types such as mwuah. Such as Khylo is for the teleporty types. I like that different maps favor different classes.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

I like Capricorn :/

I like the bell because it exists as basically another point to rotate to that sees as much fighting as mid. Sort of like Skyhammer.

Unlike Skyhammer though, mid and the side-nodes have minimal annoying kite gimmicks. To me it basically feels like that map, only less frustrating.

[Downstate.4697]

It's one of my favorite maps. Why should every map play the same way?

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

You know those one-sided blowout matches most of us hate? Capricorn magnifies any inherent imbalances between teams and punishes the weaker team mercilessly.

It is the only ranked map where the objective cannot be ignored. If you happen to be teamed up with players who are--inexperienced--you can easily be on a team that ignores the bell to its doom.

Even if your team knows not to cede the bell to the other team, the outcome heavily favors team fighters and point controllers (support, bunkers and area-deniers). The battle for the bell can be drawn out and epic, even timing out before there is a victor. Or it can be brutally one-sided if the team comps are a poor match. It isn't fun being on the team without a support Firebrand, that also won't focus the enemy Firebrand so there's even a chance at breaking through the enemy team's boon spam, and preventing signet resurrections. Doubly ridiculous if the enemy team has stacked Firebrands. You can have Capricorn matches where your hapless team simply gives away the bell every time, or a comp is so heavily favored it just steamrolls every bell.

If the outcome of PvP matches were based only on which team could dominate mid-fights, they would all be played on Capricorn. Capricorn, more than any other map, removes all the other win conditions and rotational strategies that exist aside from mid/team-fights, leaving only a single path to victory, that favors only one approach. In solo queue Capricorn, the matchmaker is but a glorified coin flipper.

TL;DR: All the frustrations people have with being mostly at the mercy of the nine random strangers the matchmaker assigns them to are intensified in Revenge of the Capricorn because there is only a single win-condition that boils down to being on the team with the better team fight. With fewer options, matches tend to be snowbally, overly decisive, and brutally punishing to the weaker team.

[Lonecap.4105]

Capricorn may favour teamfighters, but it’s at the other end of the spectrum to Legacy which heavily favours roamers and is basically the bad map for teamfighters.