Power Holo in T4 Fractals

[Krag.6210]

Anyone have had some experience with it?

Here are some random impressions:From the few runs I've done in pugs, the damage is great but you're extremely squishy, especially against trash mobs and the lack of endurance is very noticeable. It's alright on bosses unless they want to auto attack you. You also really want a healer or AED to stay alive because the combination of being melee and self inflicted damage can really hurt.It's much better in 100CM since you can avoid everything and you'll have a healer most of the time, cheap damage from adds and AA is what will kill you in the other fractals.

[Kamahl.3621]

I did it for a few days before quitting out of disappointment. More because the damage is not very much of an upgrade at all, and I'd rather just gear out my Dragonhunter and transfer infusions to be honest. That being said, if I opened with Holographic Shockwave into various skills and collapsing the arena, it made everything in T4 a pretty breezy experience. Hard Light Arena is optional, not needed at all if you have a DH who is pulling the mobs for you. Was using a Tools-focused static discharge build for more front-loaded burst and constant 100% endurance regen (no need for the 50% perk due to the fractal potion).

[Adamantium.3682]

It's just as fine as the core condi build. Damage is more bursty but goes down as soon as you have to move around or dodge.

I don't notice it as any more squishy. You have practically the same skills, minor barrier and more CC. I find it to be a little more flexible, grenades can be dropped without a huge loss of damage which allows a more defensive utility.

Condi is maybe better damage in the long run but it's never been flexible. Power holo is a little more flexible and about the same level of squishy in my experience. AOE and CC are much better on Holo. Single target damage over time is better on condi.

[Nephalem.8921]

Holo should have the highest underwater dps in the game.We need more underwater fracs.I tried it too and it is one of the best trash clearing builds i played. Blinds, burst and 5 target cap.But it just doesn't have the boss dmg of a firebrand. It is a bit undertuned but still performs well in fracs but some groups will start to kick engis because holo just can't do competetive boss dps when all players are on the same skill level.

I would always bring one for underwater/facility though. Makes them so much easier.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

The biggest problem I have is how frail it is. Even with the 15% damage reduction and extra vitality you just melt to enemy DPS. It's hard to evaluate the performance if you don't live long enough to perform.

Otherwise it is fine. The large amount of CC is really useful.

[Nephalem.8921]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The biggest problem I have is how frail it is. Even with the 15% damage reduction and extra vitality you just melt to enemy DPS. It's hard to evaluate the performance if you don't live long enough to perform.

Otherwise it is fine. The large amount of CC is really useful.

You are not supposed to facetank in the first place. You have 1-2 pulsing blind fields and can switch some dmg for projectile defense or protection. Thats more than most other glass builds can do.

[insanemaniac.2456]

ugh god engi in fractals.

i would do it if i have good players running ps + healer in my groups. to ensure that in my pugs, i normally have to play either ps or healer, and the 1 friend i normally run with always picks healer and doesnt have ps. i find its better not to trust pugs with important roles because i dont like spending time with unresponsive/bad pricks who cant read and dont know the role they chose well enough to help me finish in ~30 minutes, and theres frequently 1 in 3. and i can tell you that having a ps and a healer and playing them competently and having a friend who plays the other of those 2 will mostly result in fast, safe runs with pugs playing "dps". and not suffering unresponsive/bad pricks is important to me after 5 years, so i dont. so its a matter of opportunity for me. i like and play engi better. but i dont really play it in fractals ever since hot.

like really, of the last 10 warriors you saw in fractals, how many made sure the party got its 25 might and both banners? if there were 2 in the group, did one of them ask the other to run/skip ps? did they ping banners (prolly, cuz thats approximately minimum competency at least)? without these things, after 5 years, i feel like im wasting time. and yes, if i started going with a 3rd friend, id l2p chrono if necessary.

.../rant sorry

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The biggest problem I have is how frail it is. Even with the 15% damage reduction and extra vitality you just melt to enemy DPS. It's hard to evaluate the performance if you don't live long enough to perform.

Otherwise it is fine. The large amount of CC is really useful.

You are not supposed to facetank in the first place. You have 1-2 pulsing blind fields and can switch some dmg for projectile defense or protection. Thats more than most other glass builds can do.

I'm not facetanking. I just die anyway. Ambient damage and overheating. Regardless, while I can (and do) switch out my skills for more defenses, I end up doing substantially less damage. The exceed skills have pretty poor defensive utility anyway, and photon forge itself others nothing. The class is glass.

[insanemaniac.2456]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The biggest problem I have is how frail it is. Even with the 15% damage reduction and extra vitality you just melt to enemy DPS. It's hard to evaluate the performance if you don't live long enough to perform.

Otherwise it is fine. The large amount of CC is really useful.

You are not supposed to facetank in the first place. You have 1-2 pulsing blind fields and can switch some dmg for projectile defense or protection. Thats more than most other glass builds can do.

I'm not facetanking. I just die anyway. Ambient damage and overheating. Regardless, while I can (and do) switch out my skills for more defenses, I end up doing substantially less damage. The exceed skills have pretty poor defensive utility anyway, and photon forge itself others nothing. The class is glass.

can confirm, most dps classes not named reaper just plain die in the absence of a healer, myself included!

[Vagrant.7206]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The biggest problem I have is how frail it is. Even with the 15% damage reduction and extra vitality you just melt to enemy DPS. It's hard to evaluate the performance if you don't live long enough to perform.

Otherwise it is fine. The large amount of CC is really useful.

You are not supposed to facetank in the first place. You have 1-2 pulsing blind fields and can switch some dmg for projectile defense or protection. Thats more than most other glass builds can do.

Yes, the blind fields are critical if you're a condi engi. I use them all the time.

But if you're holo, good luck! Even if you're not facetanking, individual mobs in t4 Fracs autoattacking you can do some harsh damage.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@insanemaniac.2456 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:The biggest problem I have is how frail it is. Even with the 15% damage reduction and extra vitality you just melt to enemy DPS. It's hard to evaluate the performance if you don't live long enough to perform.

Otherwise it is fine. The large amount of CC is really useful.

You are not supposed to facetank in the first place. You have 1-2 pulsing blind fields and can switch some dmg for projectile defense or protection. Thats more than most other glass builds can do.

I'm not facetanking. I just die anyway. Ambient damage and overheating. Regardless, while I can (and do) switch out my skills for more defenses, I end up doing substantially less damage. The exceed skills have pretty poor defensive utility anyway, and photon forge itself others nothing. The class is glass.

can confirm, most dps classes not named reaper just plain die in the absence of a healer, myself included!

Not really. When I played as a Scrapper, the large amount of stuns, evades, and innate reflects in the damage rotation made me extremely tanky. As did the good reflect on bulwark gyro. You've already mentioned the reaper, but Daredevil damage rotations have a lot of evades built in to them (as well as blind fields and weakness). The Rev (both Herald and Renegade) have a lot of self healing, protection, and some really good invulnerability skills. The Guardian also has aegis, self healing, protection, and a lot of invulnerable skills. The Tempest usually used staff, but it has a large engagement range which let me fight just outside of the pocket. The mesmer is spent mostly for buffs, but the DPS specs usually yanked all of the enemies in place and followed up with dazes and distortion, and the DPS chrono can hold an entire group forever with Gravity Well. I don't play warriors or rangers, but I do know that both classes have a lot of built in evades and invulnerability skills.

The only specialization that I am having trouble surviving in is the Holosmith*. I can play all of the others just fine. The problem, therefore, exists with the Holosmith. The photon forge locks skills for what seems like an eternity, and aside from the paltry barrier and short CC it offers no defensive skills. Once forged, I am a sitting duck; the kits are locked out and the exceeds do nothing to save me.

*Also I have trouble with the weaver, but since everybody does then relatively I am good with the weaver.

[Adamantium.3682]

Alright just got out of a set of T4's again tonight, here are some more thoughts. I'm assuming if you're running Holosmith you're running Berserker and not trying to tank something or doing anything other than damage.

• Holo is not squishier than any other dps class. In T4 you stand and get hit and you die, this is not exclusive to Holosmith as much as people might want to find more things to complain about.
• As others have said the defense that is built in to core condi build is still there with Holo, and a bit more. Blinds, barrier, heat therapy. Even though Solar Focusing Lens isn't a great trait, thinking Light Density Amplifier is going to protect you at all in T4's besides maybe surviving one extra hit once in awhile is the wrong mindset.
• It's not as consistent as condi due to the nature of power damage. You really have to be on the boss to do damage, when you starting running around for revives, dodging, mechanics, whatever your damage falls.
• Higher CC, but takes some planning to pull off.
• More flexibility in the utilties, and even weapon.
• Overheat can happen at inopportune times for sure, and with PBM you want to Overheat obviously so it sucks that it can down you. A downside I think is outweighed by the positives of the build, but it happens and it doesn't feel good. I have jumped out of PF even at 90+ heat just to not Overheat yet if my health is low. In that case it's nice there's no cooldown to go back into PF.

Overall I prefer it to the core condi build. Is it just because it's new and I've been playing the condi build for years? Maybe, but I think it has more to offer. Let's call the damage equal (qT benchmarks are within a few hundred), Holosmith is way easier to put out damage and the spike is way higher which is usually all that matters between boss phases. Sometimes (like Nightmare, Shattered Observatory) the boss phases are short and there are other mechanics you have to run around for so you rarely even need to dps outside PF. For those fights you can bring better support on your utility bar. HLA, Photon Wall, whatever. Heck even dropping Rifle for Sword/Shield for added mobility/defense/CC doesn't really hurt your dps that much.

[Fractal Spoon.9280]

If you got people that know to burst and to cc, power holo is the way to go.I guess your dmg wont be too far off of a DH, but still nowhere close to a well played Tempest on a big hitbox. (I have not played with a good DH so far, so only can tell for temp.)

However if you run with pugs, that have no clue on what they are doing, you might as well run core condi on bosses, as it is easier to rez and dmg at the same time with that setup (more high dmg +high cd skills).

In 100CM, from my experience power holo works best on Artsariiv and Arkk. On the first one power is probably better, as long as you do not fuck up -->dont jumpshot into his 33% attack...In 99CM i prefer power, for the first two bosses and condi on ensolyss, however even there, i think power will be better when i get to do it more often.

For general T4 fracs, I consider Holosmith a nice addition to the engineer profession.Everything has a place. If you know how to use your tools, you can get a lot out of them.

[insanemaniac.2456]

i took an opportunity to play holo on molten boss tonight and had no problem surviving, but of course i had a healer friend. damage was good enough for my taste.

I tried scourge for the other 2 dailies since a ps joined my lfg that said dps. np. puglyfe. for some reason the archdiviner phased within seconds of pushing f5, was a bit surprising.

so I guess thats the difference between scourge and holosmith at least. surprising versus thumbs up. and warrior is boring in comparison, but necessary enough for speed to want to have one more than wanting to play other things without having a warrior.

[Adamantium.3682]

Anet confirmed Scourge is broken right now because the shades are bugged, so yeah it's better than literally anything else you could bring... Not a good measuring stick. By all means though abuse it while you can!

[Adamantium.3682]

I'm still having fun in fractals, but I've got into more of a static group and less of a PUG situation and it's quite a different perspective.

I cannot be top damage with a Firebrand or Soulbeast in group given similar skill levels. Possibly others but those are in my static. In addition I have practically zero group support outside of breakbars, which is admittedly very good on Holo. In addition to that PBM often becomes a detriment and the other GMs just aren't worth using in high tier PvE. I can't overheat with Agony or I likely go down, it's too much damage to take for no reason when you can't get healed. When we're in T4 or 100CM it's just not viable to take that damage from yourself. At this level it's about avoiding damage more than surviving it.

I'm still enjoying Holo and I still believe the design is good. Even in raids I'm okay with it aside from some slight damage tweaks that are needed. But in the higher levels of fractals there are just too many hurdles that other professions who perform better and provide more to group do not have.

Robert seems pretty aware of general concerns on the Holosmith I hope this is on his radar as well.