Will condi damage also be lowered?

Anput.4620 · February 23, 2020

I thought anet said something along those lines but it wasn't posted in the patchnotes?

I don't see how trailblazer mirages won't screw everyone up if not lol, will there be any source that shows the numerical changes or will we be left in the dark?

Clownmug.8357 · February 23, 2020

They said they're going to wait and see, like usual...

SloRules.3560 · February 23, 2020

Mirage is quite literary only going to have 1 dodge... So please stop whining about mesmers all the time. I'm sick of it. I can't even play my class anymore.

MedievalThings.5417 · February 23, 2020

I've compared all the patch notes to my burn dragonhunter build. Literally no change at all. I lose 2 secs of vulnerability on 1 skill, and a 2 second increase on the cooldown of another. No reduction in the burn damage, duration or stacks. And while things like staff auto get a small reduction in power coefficients, it's the conditions that make the build, the power component is irrelevant. Hell, several of the skills are getting no change at all. I've been seeing a steady increase in the number of burn guards, and I'm pretty sure this is why. People are still gonna die (almost instantly) and siege will still melt. Once again, Anet not really addressing things that are huge outliers.

Anput.4620 · February 23, 2020

@SloRules.3560 said:Mirage is quite literary only going to have 1 dodge... So please stop whining about mesmers all the time. I'm sick of it. I can't even play my class anymore.

Trailblazer Mesmer is quite literally the most broken roaming spec already, since PoF really, so imagine after the patch lol.

Anput.4620 · February 23, 2020

@Ubi.4136 said:I've compared all the patch notes to my burn dragonhunter build. Literally no change at all. I lose 2 secs of vulnerability on 1 skill, and a 2 second increase on the cooldown of another. No reduction in the burn damage, duration or stacks. And while things like staff auto get a small reduction in power coefficients, it's the conditions that make the build, the power component is irrelevant. Hell, several of the skills are getting no change at all. I've been seeing a steady increase in the number of burn guards, and I'm pretty sure this is why. People are still gonna die (almost instantly) and siege will still melt. Once again, Anet not really addressing things that are huge outliers.

Thats what i needed to hear, condi thief/mirage wars 2 i guess, atleast i already have a torment rev and condi DE lol.

lodjur.1284 · February 23, 2020

The answer is yes it is being lowered, bit less than power overall though. I will be very surprised if the majority of people play condi next patch as that's never happened before. Especially considering how dominant power is (ignoring the extreme outlier that is condi mirage)

Anput.4620 · February 23, 2020

@lodjur.1284 said:The answer is yes it is being lowered, bit less than power overall though. I will be very surprised if the majority of people play condi next patch as that's never happened before. Especially considering how dominant power is (ignoring the extreme outlier that is condi mirage)

Tbh condi mirage does as much damage as power builds atm in gear with both toughness and vitality on it.

RedShark.9548 · February 24, 2020

They never said that they would lower the dmg a condi does directly, what they did was lowering amount of applied condi stacks, or condi duration.They did this to a few classes, why they havent done this to burnguard is a mistery to me tho, that spec is absolutely busted, but i guess not enough ppl are abusing it, so its not on anets radar, yet.

Anput.4620 · February 24, 2020

@RedShark.9548 said:They never said that they would lower the dmg a condi does directly, what they did was lowering amount of applied condi stacks, or condi duration.They did this to a few classes, why they havent done this to burnguard is a mistery to me tho, that spec is absolutely busted, but i guess not enough ppl are abusing it, so its not on anets radar, yet.

I just looked at mesmer really and besides 2 clones less and the cloak change i see no changes to damage directly which makes me worried.

KrHome.1920 · February 24, 2020

Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.

If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.

For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

SoftFootpaws.9134 · February 24, 2020

They are slowly tweaking conditions to inflict less stacks but last for longer durations, which gives more oppertunities to cleanse. They don't want to simply reduce Condition Damage because then you won't feel pressure to cleanse.

Needing to take cleanses is an important part of balancing builds.

Also, keep in mind that the Power coefficients on skills that inflict conditions are being lowered..

RedShark.9548 · February 24, 2020

@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.
If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.
For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

Anput.4620 · February 24, 2020

@RedShark.9548 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.
If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.
For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

I thought WvW was about avoiding combat and doing PvE on keeps.

kokonut.7683 · February 24, 2020

@RedShark.9548 said:They never said that they would lower the dmg a condi does directly, what they did was lowering amount of applied condi stacks, or condi duration.They did this to a few classes, why they havent done this to burnguard is a mistery to me tho, that spec is absolutely busted, but i guess not enough ppl are abusing it, so its not on anets radar, yet.

Their radar is as big as their WvW team.

Gwaihir.1745 · February 24, 2020

@RedShark.9548 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.
If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.
For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

If your 30 man cant clear a burn I've got bad news for you.

Junkpile.7439 · February 24, 2020

Need to get diamond done today and then spam F5 in metabattle and select most cancerous build. :#

L A T I O N.8923 · February 24, 2020

@RedShark.9548 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.
If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.
For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

Lol. Even An 8k burntick needs one cleanse

RedShark.9548 · February 24, 2020

@Gwaihir.1745 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.
If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.
For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

If your 30 man cant clear a burn I've got bad news for you.

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.
If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.
For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

Lol. Even An 8k burntick needs one cleanse

Oh boy, you both have never played this build, the dmg is pretty much instant, depending on how many ppl you have around you.Especially bad if your caster are using projectiles, a reflect can nuke your frontline down before they even see the burn on them.

The trait permeating wrath lets every third hit they do triggers a flame explosion that puts burning onto a group of ppl, EVERY reflected projectile counts as their own attack. Reflect has no max amount of reflects.They have several other condis that trigger with the burn to cover it.

Here are 2 video that show what that build is able to do, and i played it myself and its just disgusting, especially in chokes, alone 4 uses of sword of justice will trigger burn soooo many times.

First risen howls video with full explanation with every trait working together explained.

Second figrin. The first clip of him engaging like 5 ppl says enough.

Sorry, but imo a single class should never be able to burst down 5 ppl almost instantly, even when they dont expect it. No excuses.

lodjur.1284 · February 24, 2020

@Anput.4620 said:
@lodjur.1284 said:The answer is yes it is being lowered, bit less than power overall though. I will be very surprised if the majority of people play condi next patch as that's never happened before. Especially considering how dominant power is (ignoring the extreme outlier that is condi mirage)

Tbh condi mirage does as much damage as power builds atm in gear with both toughness and vitality on it.

I even specifically mention condi mirage as an outlier. It is at the moment really broken, I expect it will still be very strong next patch but losing 50 endurance is a big deal so we will see.

@RedShark.9548 said:The trait permeating wrath lets every third hit they do triggers a flame explosion that puts burning onto a group of ppl, EVERY reflected projectile counts as their own attack. Reflect has no max amount of reflects.Sorry, but imo a single class should never be able to burst down 5 ppl almost instantly, even when they dont expect it. No excuses.

It's 1 trait. It's not an entire build or an entire damage type.

Also this game needs more traits like permeating wrath that actually punish stacking.

If your zerg is dying to condi when stuff likeCleansing SigilsDurability RunesAntitoxin RunesHeal scrapperHeal firebrandHeal tempestAnd other similar stuff exists, it's clearly a l2p issue.

Yes the permeating wrath build is decent for zergsurfing but it does basically nothing but dmg and only works against people who stack in your AoEs and have little clear/resistance

L A T I O N.8923 · February 24, 2020

@RedShark.9548 said:
@Gwaihir.1745 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.
If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.
For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

If your 30 man cant clear a burn I've got bad news for you.

@L A T I O N.8923 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.
If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.
For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.

?? Have you seen what burn dh can do to a zerg??

8k burnticks applied in like 2 seconds as aoe. If that isnt busted, than what is? If that isnt busted, why even bring that big balance patch, if burn dh is fine, than everything else is too.

Sure in 1v1 its not as good, but wvw is not about 1v1,or even smallscale, its about 30v30+And there it is devestating.

Lol. Even An 8k burntick needs one cleanse

Oh boy, you both have never played this build, the dmg is pretty much instant, depending on how many ppl you have around you.Especially bad if your caster are using projectiles, a reflect can nuke your frontline down before they even see the burn on them.

The trait permeating wrath lets every third hit they do triggers a flame explosion that puts burning onto a group of ppl, EVERY reflected projectile counts as their own attack. Reflect has no max amount of reflects.They have several other condis that trigger with the burn to cover it.

Here are 2 video that show what that build is able to do, and i played it myself and its just disgusting, especially in chokes, alone 4 uses of sword of justice will trigger burn soooo many times.

First risen howls video with full explanation with every trait working together explained.

Second figrin. The first clip of him engaging like 5 ppl says enough.

Sorry, but imo a single class should never be able to burst down 5 ppl almost instantly, even when they dont expect it. No excuses.

I dont need a kindergarten lesson, thank you. You still didn't get my point

If 8k burn ticks kill you instantly half the skills post balance patch Will do that as well....i do agree you need time to respond on IT...which you have when magicly a spinning sword on you appear. If a reaper does a smart 'spectral walk, and shroud 3' IT can drop 5 people instantly. Same as a berserkers ARC divider. 2 Weavers can (if lucky) drop an entire zerg in 2 sec.I Will also see this happen postpatch, Just less frequently

Secondly: this gamemode is designed to be a cooperating strategy tower defense game. Not open field zoneblob VS zoneblob. Yes 30v30 Will appear, same as 1v1. They should not design everything around one or the other..

Thirdly this trait excists since launch and a lot of people ran simmular builds?

RedShark.9548 · February 24, 2020

@L A T I O N.8923 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@Gwaihir.1745 said:
@RedShark.9548 said:
@KrHome.1920 said:Burnguard isn't overpowered and won't be. Sigil of Cleansing and one additional cleanse in your utility bar is enough to deal with it as it lacks cover conditions.
If you want to see condi nerfs, then take a look at the scourge changes. Since it has tons of cover conditions its condi damage is nerfed to almost unplayable levels (condi trait changes: 1s of burn, 1s of torment, 1s of bleed...). Good luck stacking any condi on scourge in the future! On top of that the manifest sand shade strikes (the direct damage component of every F-skill) ist nullified from a 0.66 to a 0.1 multiplier. That will have huge effects in wvw blob fights.
For condi mirage I guess they will wait how the dodge nerf will affect the spec. It could already be enough as mirage loses a ton of sustain and utility with that nerf.