Patch has me scared

[XatraZaytrax.2601]

I will admit I am not the best player. I don't understand all the build stuff and how it goes together. I go online and use those builds and try hard to learn them so I am not a detriment to my teams in pvp, wvw, pve, fractals, dungeons. It took me so long to find builds that worked and make armor and stuff so people stopped calling me out for being stupid and incompetent, and actually started calling me names for killing them. I can actually 1v1 win or at least give a good showing. Now I feel like I will have to start all over again. Get those "your necro sucks," "learn how to kill something you ** idiot mesmer," "what a pathetic thief, you loser" conments or the plain old just kick me. It is the main reason I keep my chat off most of the time, left my last guild, and do stuff by myself. I really like this game. It is one of the few things that has gotten me through bad times, even with all the pain it has brought me -- mostly because I can ditch the comments and was able to become competent. But that took years. Now I will have to start all over again. This time, however, it seem as if we are heading into a long period of turmoil, where change after change will constantly make me feel behind the curve, stupid, and incompetent. Where I can't even take a camp or kill a sentry, where I can't even consider a 1v1, and have to hear those "your worthless comments" again. I know it may prove my fears are unfounded, but I can't be the only one. But if I am back at square one, I can't see doing all that again. I just wish Anet spent a little time teaching us stuff, instead it's all throwing us in the deep end with the sharks and gators, and telling us to swim.

[Batel.9206]

Everybody else will be at square one, too.

There will always be people who are better at this game than anyone else, because either they've worked hard and know their class so well they can solo raid bosses in their sleep, or because they're just gifted with insanely fast reflexes and can learn very quickly. Good for them. They are, generally, the exception to the rule, so don't feel pressured into having to play just as well as they can. Play as well as you can. That's all you can do.And there will always be trolls. Keep some perspective in mind - they're anonymous comments made by someone who doesn't know you and who is trying to vent their frustration over a bunch of pixels. Who, exactly, are they that they can have such power over your life and mood just by saying something mean? I've gotten quite a few comments telling me "oh my [gosh] please go play PVE only" or "you suck" or "our ranger is [basket of kittens!]" ...sorry, I don't have time for trolls' nonsense, I'm here to play a game. I'll learn at my own pace, thanks. If someone's willing to offer constructive criticism, I'll take it gladly! But if all someone has to offer is a bunch of childish, petulant whining, I just laugh and go on my way.

...now, granted, if the comments are genuinely threatening or obscene, report their behinds off and block them. But otherwise? Learn to ignore them and just play for fun. Better yet, laugh at how easily triggered they are...or feel sorry that they're so petty and pathetic.

[Skotlex.7580]

Change is inevitable if the game is to survive and improve. There's an inherent need to adapt when balance matters (specially after it was so seriously upset due to the introduction of elite specs).

If adapting to the changes proves to be too hard, then may as well stick to offline games, which hardly change after release and where there's much less need to adapt over time. Or.... look into why it's turning out so difficult to adapt to changes, and work on ways around that.

[Crono.4197]

I agree to this too. While these days I don't WvW or PVP too much anymore, I don't think it was a good idea to "reinvent the wheel" in these modes.The way people are acting in competitive games and modes aren't helping either. A lot of people will have to remake everything from scratch and to be honest, only elitists will be happy about that. I think everyone should have an equal chance at any mode, be it PVE, PVP, WVW.But we know how humans are. PVP and WVW can be the same as Raids, "get out if you're not as good as us".While some adjustments are welcome sometimes, this is a big change and it will have impact on some players that like doing PVP casually or just aren't that good at PVP, but they still like it and wanna have fun.

The solution? ArenaNet should find a way to match players based on the same level of skills. That could be based on the PVP level, for example 1-10 would match all beginners, 11-20 would match the next group...and so on. Or just allow players to select their own level of difficulty before joining a PVP match (although I can see this getting abused by high skill players in order to easily kill weaker players and complete reward tracks faster).

[Jimbru.6014]

The annoying thing to me is that I have several character builds I was thinking about or working on, and those will all be flipped upside down come tomorrow, so I've been holding off on making any big investments. The having to wait and see what happens is frustrating.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@"XatraZaytrax.2601" said:I will admit I am not the best player. I don't understand all the build stuff and how it goes together. I go online and use those builds and try hard to learn them so I am not a detriment to my teams in pvp, wvw, pve, fractals, dungeons. It took me so long to find builds that worked and make armor and stuff so people stopped calling me out for being stupid and incompetent, and actually started calling me names for killing them. I can actually 1v1 win or at least give a good showing. Now I feel like I will have to start all over again. Get those "your necro sucks," "learn how to kill something you ** idiot mesmer," "what a pathetic thief, you loser" conments or the plain old just kick me. It is the main reason I keep my chat off most of the time, left my last guild, and do stuff by myself. I really like this game. It is one of the few things that has gotten me through bad times, even with all the pain it has brought me -- mostly because I can ditch the comments and was able to become competent. But that took years. Now I will have to start all over again. This time, however, it seem as if we are heading into a long period of turmoil, where change after change will constantly make me feel behind the curve, stupid, and incompetent. Where I can't even take a camp or kill a sentry, where I can't even consider a 1v1, and have to hear those "your worthless comments" again. I know it may prove my fears are unfounded, but I can't be the only one. But if I am back at square one, I can't see doing all that again. I just wish Anet spent a little time teaching us stuff, instead it's all throwing us in the deep end with the sharks and gators, and telling us to swim.

We are all going to be behind the 8 ball. Despite this, there are people that are convinced they have already theory crafted the new builds perfectly.

Chances are, some of them will have done it. Meta battle will have builds up within 2-3 days. Trial them.

And... find a WvW guild that isn’t as much of a piece of young cat as the one you were in.

My current ones will jest, but even when I am on a toon I pull up to try to get better at, they are only helpful.

Many are. Are there ones that are jerks? Yep. But there are many that are and can be especially helpful. And it might help you navigate the upcoming changes..

[Strider Pj.2193]

@"Crono.4197" said:I agree to this too. While these days I don't WvW or PVP too much anymore, I don't think it was a good idea to "reinvent the wheel" in these modes.

It was needed as the amount of power creep that has gone on in 7 years to appease the ‘big numbers’ crowd was contributing to stifling new people from getting into the mode. The ‘reset’ will likely end up being (after the additional tweaks) being one of the best things for WvW in a long time.

The way people are acting in competitive games and modes aren't helping either. A lot of people will have to remake everything from scratch and to be honest, only elitists will be happy about that. I think everyone should have an equal chance at any mode, be it PVE, PVP, WVW.

People DO have an equal chance. What they do with it is what separates players. If WvW/sPvP aren’t your cup of tea, then there are others that will be. I hate the concept of memorizing rotations and specific boss mechanics. I would much rather play against unpredictability. It’s what makes it fun for me, which is why I like WvW.

But we know how humans are. PVP and WVW can be the same as Raids, "get out if you're not as good as us".

Yes they can. As well as some who scream if you are in ‘their meta’ and not helping.

While some adjustments are welcome sometimes, this is a big change and it will have impact on some players that like doing PVP casually or just aren't that good at PVP, but they still like it and wanna have fun.

And PvP gives amulets which keeps the entry process skill based.

The solution? ArenaNet should find a way to match players based on the same level of skills. That could be based on the PVP level, for example 1-10 would match all beginners, 11-20 would match the next group...and so on. Or just allow players to select their own level of difficulty before joining a PVP match (although I can see this getting abused by high skill players in order to easily kill weaker players and complete reward tracks faster).

sPvP does this.

You can’t do it on an individual basis in WvW. It won’t work. There are too many players. Server wise, it happens to an extent with one up one down.

[Poisonwell.1209]

Hello friend, i can feel you i just know how to play my main class ele. I think mayority of players gonna feel the same after the update. This reminds me first days after pof. I was trying to figure out how to play weaver on pvp with such double skills.. Everything was confused at that time. But i was able to learn. The things is is not gonna be so hard as a new specialization. Feel free to pm in game to "miss poisonsita" if you want to hand out with a pvp friend .We will survive this one )yes my english sucks.

[Gop.8713]

I worry about the new patch bc I'm lazy and rn I can just leverage a build to get more wins than I 'deserve' based on the amount of effort I'm actually putting in. After the patch TTK should go up, which should hopefully increase the importance of skill in determining outcomes. Which is good for the game, but probably bad for me. I'll have to adapt . . .

I'm also worried that outcomes after the patch are going to be determined more by kiting and disengaging, which isn't skill-based and would be bad for the game. But they've said they hope to be more responsive about balance moving forward, so we'll have to wait and see . . .

But mostly I try to remember that this is a game that has eliminated any cost associated with losing, so I'll just wp and try again . . .

[Khisanth.2948]

@Gop.8713 said:I worry about the new patch bc I'm lazy and rn I can just leverage a build to get more wins than I 'deserve' based on the amount of effort I'm actually putting in. After the patch TTK should go up, which should hopefully increase the importance of skill in determining outcomes. Which is good for the game, but probably bad for me. I'll have to adapt . . .

The skill part doesn't actually matter. Unless the patch also adds a bug to the matchmaking algorithm your win/loss will continue to be around 50/50. However the longer TTK might result in longer matches which results in lower gold/h.

I'm also worried that outcomes after the patch are going to be determined more by kiting and disengaging, which isn't skill-based and would be bad for the game. But they've said they hope to be more responsive about balance moving forward, so we'll have to wait and see . . .

But mostly I try to remember that this is a game that has eliminated any cost associated with losing, so I'll just wp and try again . . .

WP? If you were actually referring to WvW then it matters even less.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Gop.8713 said:I worry about the new patch bc I'm lazy and rn I can just leverage a build to get more wins than I 'deserve' based on the amount of effort I'm actually putting in. After the patch TTK should go up, which should hopefully increase the importance of skill in determining outcomes. Which is good for the game, but probably bad for me. I'll have to adapt . . .

I'm also worried that outcomes after the patch are going to be determined more by kiting and disengaging, which isn't skill-based and would be bad for the game. But they've said they hope to be more responsive about balance moving forward, so we'll have to wait and see . . .

But mostly I try to remember that this is a game that has eliminated any cost associated with losing, so I'll just wp and try again . . .

Please help me understand why increasing TTK should allow skill to better come to bear? I keep hearing it said in defense of this balance patch, but I'm really not clear on why we feel this way.

Meme builds aside, 1v1 vs. an opponent of ballpark-equal skill, fights don't generally end in seconds or by sheer dumb luck from a single move. If it does feel that way to you (like chance rather than skill), I have to wonder what the difference is? Are you just so much better than I am that we're barely playing the same game when we queue for PvP or roam around in WvW? So much worse? I am honestly at a loss to explain it. Are we really saying that TTK is so low that skill doesn't matter and whoever pushes the button first is the winner?

[Gop.8713]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I worry about the new patch bc I'm lazy and rn I can just leverage a build to get more wins than I 'deserve' based on the amount of effort I'm actually putting in. After the patch TTK should go up, which should hopefully increase the importance of skill in determining outcomes. Which is good for the game, but probably bad for me. I'll have to adapt . . .

The skill part doesn't actually matter. Unless the patch also adds a bug to the matchmaking algorithm your win/loss will continue to be around 50/50. However the longer TTK might result in longer matches which results in lower gold/h.

I'm also worried that outcomes after the patch are going to be determined more by kiting and disengaging, which isn't skill-based and would be bad for the game. But they've said they hope to be more responsive about balance moving forward, so we'll have to wait and see . . .

But mostly I try to remember that this is a game that has eliminated any cost associated with losing, so I'll just wp and try again . . .

WP? If you were actually referring to WvW then it matters even less.

Yes I only wvw, no pvp . . .

@"AliamRationem.5172" said:

Please help me understand why increasing TTK should allow skill to better come to bear? I keep hearing it said in defense of this balance patch, but I'm really not clear on why we feel this way.

Meme builds aside, 1v1 vs. an opponent of ballpark-equal skill, fights don't generally end in seconds or by sheer dumb luck from a single move. If it does feel that way to you (like chance rather than skill), I have to wonder what the difference is? Are you just so much better than I am that we're barely playing the same game when we queue for PvP or roam around in WvW? So much worse? I am honestly at a loss to explain it. Are we really saying that TTK is so low that skill doesn't matter and whoever pushes the button first is the winner?

KInd of a lot to unpack there. First off, you can't put meme builds aside. Second, if you're assuming 1v1 vs. equal skill, then your assumption dictates skill will not determine the outcome. But if you're assuming one combatant is more skilled than the other, increasing TTK increases the chances that the difference in skill will have an opportunity to come to light. It allows for counterplay (i.e., skill). It eliminates the "puncher's chance" if you'd like to think of it that way . . .

[Khisanth.2948]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I worry about the new patch bc I'm lazy and rn I can just leverage a build to get more wins than I 'deserve' based on the amount of effort I'm actually putting in. After the patch TTK should go up, which should hopefully increase the importance of skill in determining outcomes. Which is good for the game, but probably bad for me. I'll have to adapt . . .

I'm also worried that outcomes after the patch are going to be determined more by kiting and disengaging, which isn't skill-based and would be bad for the game. But they've said they hope to be more responsive about balance moving forward, so we'll have to wait and see . . .

But mostly I try to remember that this is a game that has eliminated any cost associated with losing, so I'll just wp and try again . . .

Please help me understand why increasing TTK should allow skill to better come to bear? I keep hearing it said in defense of this balance patch, but I'm really not clear on why we feel this way.

Meme builds aside, 1v1 vs. an opponent of ballpark-equal skill, fights don't generally end in seconds or by sheer dumb luck from a single move. If it does feel that way to you (like chance rather than skill), I have to wonder what the difference is? Are you just so much better than I am that we're barely playing the same game when we queue for PvP or roam around in WvW? So much worse? I am honestly at a loss to explain it. Are we really saying that TTK is so low that skill doesn't matter and whoever pushes the button first is the winner?

Hmm ... problematic builds aside there are no problems

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I worry about the new patch bc I'm lazy and rn I can just leverage a build to get more wins than I 'deserve' based on the amount of effort I'm actually putting in. After the patch TTK should go up, which should hopefully increase the importance of skill in determining outcomes. Which is good for the game, but probably bad for me. I'll have to adapt . . .

I'm also worried that outcomes after the patch are going to be determined more by kiting and disengaging, which isn't skill-based and would be bad for the game. But they've said they hope to be more responsive about balance moving forward, so we'll have to wait and see . . .

But mostly I try to remember that this is a game that has eliminated any cost associated with losing, so I'll just wp and try again . . .

Please help me understand why increasing TTK should allow skill to better come to bear? I keep hearing it said in defense of this balance patch, but I'm really not clear on why we feel this way.

Meme builds aside, 1v1 vs. an opponent of ballpark-equal skill, fights don't generally end in seconds or by sheer dumb luck from a single move. If it does feel that way to you (like chance rather than skill), I have to wonder what the difference is? Are you just so much better than I am that we're barely playing the same game when we queue for PvP or roam around in WvW? So much worse? I am honestly at a loss to explain it. Are we really saying that TTK is so low that skill doesn't matter and whoever pushes the button first is the winner?

Hmm ... problematic builds aside there are no problems

Reinventing the wheel when a couple of builds are problematic is a desperate gamble. I hope it pays off.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Skotlex.7580 said:Change is inevitable if the game is to survive and improve.

Skill balancing isn't enough to improve this particular game and ensure its survival, I think that much is clear. The abandoning of competitive game modes by leaving them practically stale and unchanged/unimproved for years won't be saved throughout frequent skill changes.

But in general, of course, you are correct with your statement.

[Khisanth.2948]

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I worry about the new patch bc I'm lazy and rn I can just leverage a build to get more wins than I 'deserve' based on the amount of effort I'm actually putting in. After the patch TTK should go up, which should hopefully increase the importance of skill in determining outcomes. Which is good for the game, but probably bad for me. I'll have to adapt . . .

I'm also worried that outcomes after the patch are going to be determined more by kiting and disengaging, which isn't skill-based and would be bad for the game. But they've said they hope to be more responsive about balance moving forward, so we'll have to wait and see . . .

But mostly I try to remember that this is a game that has eliminated any cost associated with losing, so I'll just wp and try again . . .

Please help me understand why increasing TTK should allow skill to better come to bear? I keep hearing it said in defense of this balance patch, but I'm really not clear on why we feel this way.

Meme builds aside, 1v1 vs. an opponent of ballpark-equal skill, fights don't generally end in seconds or by sheer dumb luck from a single move. If it does feel that way to you (like chance rather than skill), I have to wonder what the difference is? Are you just so much better than I am that we're barely playing the same game when we queue for PvP or roam around in WvW? So much worse? I am honestly at a loss to explain it. Are we really saying that TTK is so low that skill doesn't matter and whoever pushes the button first is the winner?

Hmm ... problematic builds aside there are no problems

Reinventing the wheel when a couple of builds are problematic is a desperate gamble. I hope it pays off.

because doing nothing was having such a great effect?

[hayabusafmw.9370]

I will only say this.... At this stage of the game.... there's a certain amount of times you can ''piss'' your core players off. They are really taking i believe what is their last move until population drop. It's make or break. They must open their ears asap after the release of the patch. Because so far in the wvw side of things. Lots of core members are thiking jumping ship or taking breaks. It's one thing to make changes.... but drasctic re-inventing the wheel type of changes are things that can make or end a fan base. Best of luck ..

[Jski.6180]

Anet needs to come out and say what they want from weapons for classes because after this update dmg aimed melee weapons become border line tankly only weapons.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@"Gop.8713" said:I worry about the new patch bc I'm lazy and rn I can just leverage a build to get more wins than I 'deserve' based on the amount of effort I'm actually putting in. After the patch TTK should go up, which should hopefully increase the importance of skill in determining outcomes. Which is good for the game, but probably bad for me. I'll have to adapt . . .

I'm also worried that outcomes after the patch are going to be determined more by kiting and disengaging, which isn't skill-based and would be bad for the game. But they've said they hope to be more responsive about balance moving forward, so we'll have to wait and see . . .

But mostly I try to remember that this is a game that has eliminated any cost associated with losing, so I'll just wp and try again . . .

Please help me understand why increasing TTK should allow skill to better come to bear? I keep hearing it said in defense of this balance patch, but I'm really not clear on why we feel this way.

Meme builds aside, 1v1 vs. an opponent of ballpark-equal skill, fights don't generally end in seconds or by sheer dumb luck from a single move. If it does feel that way to you (like chance rather than skill), I have to wonder what the difference is? Are you just so much better than I am that we're barely playing the same game when we queue for PvP or roam around in WvW? So much worse? I am honestly at a loss to explain it. Are we really saying that TTK is so low that skill doesn't matter and whoever pushes the button first is the winner?

Hmm ... problematic builds aside there are no problems

Reinventing the wheel when a couple of builds are problematic is a desperate gamble. I hope it pays off.

because doing nothing was having such a great effect?

Hmm, no. But I wasn't advocating for that and I imagine there are a few other options besides "this or nothing", as tempting as they sound.

[Spook.5847]

@"Skotlex.7580" said:Change is inevitable if the game is to survive and improve. There's an inherent need to adapt when balance matters (specially after it was so seriously upset due to the introduction of elite specs).

If adapting to the changes proves to be too hard, then may as well stick to offline games, which hardly change after release and where there's much less need to adapt over time. Or.... look into why it's turning out so difficult to adapt to changes, and work on ways around that.

I think it is pretty well established that "change" = "nerfs" in this establishment. There's very little creativity and expansion of new ideas, skills, etc. Way too much overcontrol and domination of the playerbase as a goal in and of itself.

[Ghos.1326]

@"XatraZaytrax.2601" said:I will admit I am not the best player. I don't understand all the build stuff and how it goes together. I go online and use those builds and try hard to learn them so I am not a detriment to my teams in pvp, wvw, pve, fractals, dungeons. It took me so long to find builds that worked and make armor and stuff so people stopped calling me out for being stupid and incompetent, and actually started calling me names for killing them. I can actually 1v1 win or at least give a good showing. Now I feel like I will have to start all over again. Get those "your necro sucks," "learn how to kill something you ** idiot mesmer," "what a pathetic thief, you loser" conments or the plain old just kick me. It is the main reason I keep my chat off most of the time, left my last guild, and do stuff by myself. I really like this game. It is one of the few things that has gotten me through bad times, even with all the pain it has brought me -- mostly because I can ditch the comments and was able to become competent. But that took years. Now I will have to start all over again. This time, however, it seem as if we are heading into a long period of turmoil, where change after change will constantly make me feel behind the curve, stupid, and incompetent. Where I can't even take a camp or kill a sentry, where I can't even consider a 1v1, and have to hear those "your worthless comments" again. I know it may prove my fears are unfounded, but I can't be the only one. But if I am back at square one, I can't see doing all that again. I just wish Anet spent a little time teaching us stuff, instead it's all throwing us in the deep end with the sharks and gators, and telling us to swim.

Everyone starts low, so don't feel bad about it. Learn at your own pace, and most of all, have fun while doing it. Screw what others think, rather having taken your time and mastered your craft than rushed through the learning process and still be useless in the end.

[Skotlex.7580]

@"Spook.5847" said:I think it is pretty well established that "change" = "nerfs" in this establishment.

Say, if this were so, then where did the so called powercreep came from?

[Friday.7864]

From what I heard some of the classes can pull even more dps on golem after the supposed nerfs.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

@XatraZaytrax.2601 said:-snip-

If you're on EU you can buddy and mail me ingame (so i know whom to buddy back) and i can help ya whip up a nice non meta build that works (least on necro or rev, since they're what i play). Am a lone offmeta rider myself so i certainly won't bash you for not running meta or scoring a downstate:)

[vesica tempestas.1563]

Op. Players get comfortable with their builds, they rote memorise stuff so it's baked into the muscles. When things change it feels uncomfortable. Ultimately though change is a good thing, and it's much better to adopt a mindset that change makes things interesting. Don't worry about the name callers in pvp, they are simply peeps that can't handle their own adrenalin :)

The only issue with this patch is the size. The larger the patch, the greater the errors (nonlinear). The devs have referred to a higher cadance of change, which if they are disciplined enough to achieve will smooth out future patches.