Daddicus.6128 Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 OK, I sort of understand why soulbeast needed to be differentiated from ranger and druid. But, goodness, not by nerfing soulbeast! Ranger and druid are worthless in open world. Why bring soulbeast down to match, when you could have improved ranger and druid instead?
Sir Alric.5078 Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 @Daddicus.6128 said:OK, I sort of understand why soulbeast needed to be differentiated from ranger and druid. But, goodness, not by nerfing soulbeast! Ranger and druid are worthless in open world. Why bring soulbeast down to match, when you could have improved ranger and druid instead?'cuz it's easier to nerf one spec than buff two.
Zaklex.6308 Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 @Daddicus.6128 said:OK, I sort of understand why soulbeast needed to be differentiated from ranger and druid. But, goodness, not by nerfing soulbeast! Ranger and druid are worthless in open world. Why bring soulbeast down to match, when you could have improved ranger and druid instead?What if I disagree on your assessment of Ranger in OW? What exactly makes it worthless in OW?
Daddicus.6128 Posted February 27, 2020 Author Posted February 27, 2020 Are you joking? Ranger didn't get a first elite specialization. Or, more accurately, they didn't get a legitimate one (one that can compete with other professions in open world PvE). And, ranger never was that good to start with.
Revolution.5409 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Both condi and power Ranger have a good dps and are practicable almost like War and Guard cores.
Daddicus.6128 Posted February 27, 2020 Author Posted February 27, 2020 Yeah, like cores. Compare it to other professions' elites now.
KeyOrion.9506 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Our damage runs over per arrow hit, and sloooooowlllly adds up within a few seconds. Unlike some other professions where it's one...two...your dead. I can see where Daddicus is coming from. Our damage was never a one two punch. All our damage was spread over a period of time and had to be burst skills. Takes us roughly 2 to 2.5 seconds to burst 10-15k damage ratio. And quite a few players were able to no surpass that damage with a single well, or single shot and do well over 23k damage. It's not easy being a cheesey class, when the makers of Ranger made us the Jack of All trades....master's of none....
anduriell.6280 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Yes but to balance PvE OW what ranger needs is the PvP balance treatment, bring the all the PVP changes to PvE as well.Once all classes enjoy the same range of coefficients not only PvE will be more engaging but also all the strong difference in damage between ranger and other classes will be reduced to a sensible level.
Lazze.9870 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Open world Pve?Removing pet swap in combat doesn't do jack sh*t to soulbeast's pve damage as you stay permamerged anyway, so what's the issue?
jaif.3518 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 I'm struggling with the concept that ranger, druid, and now soulbeast are "worthless" in "open world".Which part of open world are you having trouble with? Story, tagging during events, zergs vs bosses?
Cambeleg.7632 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 I just will say that avoiding pet switch during combat on Soulbeast is the biggest stupidity I've seen to commit against the class in long time.
Revolution.5409 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 @Cambeleg.7632 said:I just will say that avoiding pet switch during combat on Soulbeast is the biggest stupidity I've seen to commit against the class in long time.I agree, it would have been better to remove the static bonuses that we get from pets or to remove the special skills of Slb, now is trash. xD
AlexndrTheGreat.8310 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 @Revolution.5409 said:@Cambeleg.7632 said:I just will say that avoiding pet switch during combat on Soulbeast is the biggest stupidity I've seen to commit against the class in long time.I agree, it would have been better to remove the static bonuses that we get from pets or to remove the special skills of Slb, now is trash. xDIf they did that there would literally be no point in SB. Ranger as a whole is balanced around the fact that you have a pet, and all the stats and abilities that merging gives you is to give power to your character while the pet is gone. Else SB is literally just a ranger with no pet
Revolution.5409 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:@Revolution.5409 said:@Cambeleg.7632 said:I just will say that avoiding pet switch during combat on Soulbeast is the biggest stupidity I've seen to commit against the class in long time.I agree, it would have been better to remove the static bonuses that we get from pets or to remove the special skills of Slb, now is trash. xDIf they did that there would literally be no point in SB. Ranger as a whole is balanced around the fact that you have a pet, and all the stats and abilities that merging gives you is to give power to your character while the pet is gone. Else SB is literally just a ranger with no petExactly and it would be good and it wouldn't have balance problems, those extra stats and that beast mode skill cost us our second pet, was it worth it? I do not think.The specialization must offer an alternative style to Ranger core, in this case it would do so and would maintain the exchange of pets, it is certainly a better tradeoff than the current one.I don't play SLB because I unlock Worldly Impact but I play SLB because I play a Ranger without pets, who has no problems in reviving pets and who can save pets from AOE damage, removing a pet is equivalent to losing 50% of the potential of this profession.
AlexndrTheGreat.8310 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 @Revolution.5409 said:@AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:@Revolution.5409 said:@Cambeleg.7632 said:I just will say that avoiding pet switch during combat on Soulbeast is the biggest stupidity I've seen to commit against the class in long time.I agree, it would have been better to remove the static bonuses that we get from pets or to remove the special skills of Slb, now is trash. xDIf they did that there would literally be no point in SB. Ranger as a whole is balanced around the fact that you have a pet, and all the stats and abilities that merging gives you is to give power to your character while the pet is gone. Else SB is literally just a ranger with no petExactly and it would be good and it wouldn't have balance problems, those extra stats and that beast mode skill cost us our second pet, was it worth it? I do not think.The specialization must offer an alternative style to Ranger core, in this case it would do so and would maintain the exchange of pets, it is certainly a better tradeoff than the current one.I don't play SLB because I unlock Worldly Impact but I play SLB because I play a Ranger without pets, who has no problems in reviving pets and who can save pets from AOE damage, removing a pet is equivalent to losing 50% of the potential of this profession.I’m sorry I’m a bit confused by your statement. You’re saying that SB should just merge with a pet and remove it and then just ... nothing? That’s it, nothings changed and now you don’t have a pet?
Cambeleg.7632 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 , @Revolution.5409 The point goes more far than this, even. Core ranger and Druid didn't get this, so it's clearly intended to SB. So it's not just that you only can use a pet, but also causes certain skills and traits totally useless for the spec.DEVS, do you REALLY know what are you doing? 'Cos things like this make me doubt it!
AlexndrTheGreat.8310 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 @Cambeleg.7632 said:@AlexndrTheGreat.8310 , @Revolution.5409 The point goes more far than this, even. Core ranger and Druid didn't get this, so it's clearly intended to SB. So it's not just that you only can use a pet, but also causes certain skills and traits totally useless for the spec.DEVS, do you REALLY know what are you doing? 'Cos things like this make me doubt it!SB was for 99% of stuff a 100% upgrade over core Ranger. If there was a core ranger build, it would always be improved by adding in SB. Anet has been nerfing elite specs to try and avoid this issue of power creep and re-aligning elite specs to their original goal of providing a different role for classes and greatly changing the overall play style. The most unfortunate thing though is the fact that they waited this long for any sort of nerfing to happen. Druid got a 20% pet damage nerf because Anet wanted that elite spec to not focus on damage and be relegated to the healing spec for Ranger.Anet addressed the issue of removing the pet swapping by changing the way the traits work. If there is a trait that triggers on pet swap, it will trick upon merging while specced as SB, so they are not useless.Outside of being limited to one pet, the only other reasonable beef would be to make the SB permanently merged at all times and swap between 2 merged pets, but I guess Anet thought the actual act of merging and un-merging were more aligned with the intended vision of SB.Now there will be situations in which you will have to decide whether you want to play some Ranger build or if the trade offs and changes are still worth playing SB. That is what elite specs were originally intended to do.
Revolution.5409 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:@Revolution.5409 said:@AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:@Revolution.5409 said:@Cambeleg.7632 said:I just will say that avoiding pet switch during combat on Soulbeast is the biggest stupidity I've seen to commit against the class in long time.I agree, it would have been better to remove the static bonuses that we get from pets or to remove the special skills of Slb, now is trash. xDIf they did that there would literally be no point in SB. Ranger as a whole is balanced around the fact that you have a pet, and all the stats and abilities that merging gives you is to give power to your character while the pet is gone. Else SB is literally just a ranger with no petExactly and it would be good and it wouldn't have balance problems, those extra stats and that beast mode skill cost us our second pet, was it worth it? I do not think.The specialization must offer an alternative style to Ranger core, in this case it would do so and would maintain the exchange of pets, it is certainly a better tradeoff than the current one.I don't play SLB because I unlock Worldly Impact but I play SLB because I play a Ranger without pets, who has no problems in reviving pets and who can save pets from AOE damage, removing a pet is equivalent to losing 50% of the potential of this profession.I’m sorry I’m a bit confused by your statement. You’re saying that SB should just merge with a pet and remove it and then just ... nothing? That’s it, nothings changed and now you don’t have a pet?I refer only to the unique skills of Slb.Take Smokescale as an example: the pet has four skills of his own, when we use BM mode we can use 2 of them, if you remove Wordly Impact and replace it with one of the other two remaining we still get 3 skills that can be used when in BM.This in my opinion would have been a perfect tradeoff, because we don't get any extra effects from the BM but only an alternative style of play, which is what a specialization should give.
AlexndrTheGreat.8310 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 @Revolution.5409 said:@AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:I’m sorry I’m a bit confused by your statement. You’re saying that SB should just merge with a pet and remove it and then just ... nothing? That’s it, nothings changed and now you don’t have a pet?I refer only to the unique skills of Slb.Take Smokescale as an example: the pet has four skills of his own, when we use BM mode we can use 2 of them, if you remove Wordly Impact and replace it with one of the other two remaining we still get 3 skills that can be used when in BM.This in my opinion would have been a perfect tradeoff, because we don't get any extra effects from the BM but only an alternative style of play, which is what a specialization should give.Okay that clear things up a bit.Looking at the wiki at least, one of the skills all the pets have is an auto attack (which I don’t think anyone would actually want) while the other two are the ones that we can get while in BM. I can see what you mean though where the active ability we can cast for the pet is replaced by a different spell while in BM. We still technically have access to it, we just need to unmerge.SB does need extra effects along the lines of stats when merged to compensate for losing the pet. Ranger’s damage is balanced around the fact that you have an AI accompanying you and attacking enemies. Increased damage is needed to make up for the decrease in overall damage, else merging would literally nerf you
kharmin.7683 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:Else SB is literally just a ranger with no petWhich is what many were asking for at one point.
AlexndrTheGreat.8310 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 @kharmin.7683 said:@AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:Else SB is literally just a ranger with no petWhich is what many were asking for at one point.But that’s not what SB is. Ranger without a pet would just be ranger completely without a class mechanic, literally the thing that defines the class. It’s like, “hey, I want to play Mesmer without shatters”. At least with SB you can emulate that experience of not having a pet, except Anet is stopping you from intentionally gimping yourself significantly.
kharmin.7683 Posted February 28, 2020 Posted February 28, 2020 @AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:@kharmin.7683 said:@AlexndrTheGreat.8310 said:Else SB is literally just a ranger with no petWhich is what many were asking for at one point.But that’s not what SB is. Ranger without a pet would just be ranger completely without a class mechanic, literally the thing that defines the class. It’s like, “hey, I want to play Mesmer without shatters”. At least with SB you can emulate that experience of not having a pet, except Anet is stopping you from intentionally gimping yourself significantly.I agree. I was just pointing out that there were some players asking for a pet-less ranger instead of being perma-merged.
Daddicus.6128 Posted February 29, 2020 Author Posted February 29, 2020 My main point is that SB (before the change) was on par with the other elite specializations. Druid wasn't. Before SB, rangers were only useful as healer druids in dungeons (etc.) SB finally put them back as a playable class. Taking their second pet away nerfed them down to the level of the other two specs, but what was needed was to correct the other two to make it more in line with all the other professions.
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