mrauls.6519 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 I've played between 10-20 unranked games by now. It's ridiculous how slow all fights are. Players are too tanky. Damage is too low. Please do something soon.
Genesis.5169 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Trying to get plat in 2v2's made gold 70% wr so far trying to keep it that way.
DoRi Silvia.4159 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Nay, this patch is good and this is the way it should beTHIS IS THE WAY
Phoebe Ascension.8437 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 By permatanking again Dori Silvia? Boring. Timing stuns/stability it all means nothing, the first person that lets his defence down (usually by worse build) dies, then the win is signed. Who thought this is a good gameplay.No chance to bypass killing as mechanic (you cant cap as compensation)Some classes terrible at 1 vs 1 (necro reaper) still had a chance cause of good mid presenceThe lack of needing to stand on something makes aoe useless. Well of corruption? Step out and done. In conquest this could mean loss of capture.No comeback possible, nobody wins 1 vs2 unlessi t's one of those 'amost everyone is downed at the end' fight.Insanely boring Anet. Just when you nerfed tons of pvp stuff, i thought the games would be faster, but less dependent on overpowered builds. In fact now the difference between overpowered and not overpowered has grown. 1) because 2 vs2, the build is more important then ever, you can hide behind anything, bad build = fast die. 2) because of the slow gameplay, classes with high survival, yet still good damage (spellbreaker, mirage, weaver, firebrand come to mind) are crushingly overpowered, while some other classes are really weak (thief, revenant, etc).Terrible anet. And yet... i will play it. Because... i don't want this achievement to be a dark roster on my journey past 40 000 achievements now. But am i having fun? Nope. Out of 8 matches, 1 was balanced and had this 'hard vs hard, exciting vs exciting' feel that some pvp matches with similar score have. All the rest was tanking for time, and feeling after 20 sec who wins no matter what happens after that.I loved 10vs10 they kinda removed that, now they sorta removed 5vs 5.The intend may have been good (for wich thanks anet). But the actually game play is horrible.
bravan.3876 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Don't increase dmg, just lower sustain (passive facetank sustain before active sustain) of the tanky outliners (Necro, FB for example), otherwise the powercreep just starts right again.
DoRi Silvia.4159 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 @Phoebe Ascension.8437 said:By permatanking again Dori Silvia? Boring. Timing stuns/stability it all means nothing, the first person that lets his defence down (usually by worse build) dies, then the win is signed. Who thought this is a good gameplay.No chance to bypass killing as mechanic (you cant cap as compensation)Some classes terrible at 1 vs 1 (necro reaper) still had a chance cause of good mid presenceThe lack of needing to stand on something makes aoe useless. Well of corruption? Step out and done. In conquest this could mean loss of capture.No comeback possible, nobody wins 1 vs2 unlessi t's one of those 'amost everyone is downed at the end' fight.Insanely boring Anet. Just when you nerfed tons of pvp stuff, i thought the games would be faster, but less dependent on overpowered builds. In fact now the difference between overpowered and not overpowered has grown. 1) because 2 vs2, the build is more important then ever, you can hide behind anything, bad build = fast die. 2) because of the slow gameplay, classes with high survival, yet still good damage (spellbreaker, mirage, weaver, firebrand come to mind) are crushingly overpowered, while some other classes are really weak (thief, revenant, etc).Terrible anet. And yet... i will play it. Because... i don't want this achievement to be a dark roster on my journey past 40 000 achievements now. But am i having fun? Nope. Out of 8 matches, 1 was balanced and had this 'hard vs hard, exciting vs exciting' feel that some pvp matches with similar score have. All the rest was tanking for time, and feeling after 20 sec who wins no matter what happens after that.I loved 10vs10 they kinda removed that, now they sorta removed 5vs 5.The intend may have been good (for wich thanks anet). But the actually game play is horrible.And before it was a permanent burst 4 to 5second fights which I found boring. This all comes down to whether you like the tactical fights vs fast paced burst and move on fight. Personally loving the patch as it has lengthened fights. All the bs classes got helpa nerfed as they should have and now it feels more fair playing. End of the day they wont satisfy everyone but 90% ppl I talk to in game has good feedback about the patch. /praise anet
AliamRationem.5172 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:@"Phoebe Ascension.8437" said:By permatanking again Dori Silvia? Boring. Timing stuns/stability it all means nothing, the first person that lets his defence down (usually by worse build) dies, then the win is signed. Who thought this is a good gameplay.No chance to bypass killing as mechanic (you cant cap as compensation)Some classes terrible at 1 vs 1 (necro reaper) still had a chance cause of good mid presenceThe lack of needing to stand on something makes aoe useless. Well of corruption? Step out and done. In conquest this could mean loss of capture.No comeback possible, nobody wins 1 vs2 unlessi t's one of those 'amost everyone is downed at the end' fight.Insanely boring Anet. Just when you nerfed tons of pvp stuff, i thought the games would be faster, but less dependent on overpowered builds. In fact now the difference between overpowered and not overpowered has grown. 1) because 2 vs2, the build is more important then ever, you can hide behind anything, bad build = fast die. 2) because of the slow gameplay, classes with high survival, yet still good damage (spellbreaker, mirage, weaver, firebrand come to mind) are crushingly overpowered, while some other classes are really weak (thief, revenant, etc).Terrible anet. And yet... i will play it. Because... i don't want this achievement to be a dark roster on my journey past 40 000 achievements now. But am i having fun? Nope. Out of 8 matches, 1 was balanced and had this 'hard vs hard, exciting vs exciting' feel that some pvp matches with similar score have. All the rest was tanking for time, and feeling after 20 sec who wins no matter what happens after that.I loved 10vs10 they kinda removed that, now they sorta removed 5vs 5.The intend may have been good (for wich thanks anet). But the actually game play is horrible.And before it was a permanent burst 4 to 5second fights which I found boring. This all comes down to whether you like the tactical fights vs fast paced burst and move on fight. Personally loving the patch as it has lengthened fights. All the bs classes got helpa nerfed as they should have and now it feels more fair playing. End of the day they wont satisfy everyone but 90% ppl I talk to in game has good feedback about the patch. /praise anetSo, help me understand. How was the old meta "burst and move on"? You're suggesting that killing other players is as simple as bursting them off an opener, right? So, do players not typically defend themselves and attempt to counter pressure? No? They just roll over and die I guess? Is that what you did?I don't mean to be rude, but it just doesn't match my experience at all. Yeah, I can jump on a player with significantly less skill and just overwhelm them in seconds. It doesn't even take a bursty build to do it. But try that with a player of equal skill and you simply can't pull it off. They'll defend themselves and force you to exhaust your offense, then counter-pressure and force you to back off and recover. It becomes a chess match, even though either side is capable of killing the other in a matter of a few seconds if the opening presents itself.That's how I saw the previous meta. It was fast and high damage, which forces quick decisions and adaptation in order to exhaust your opponent's defenses and eventually create the opening to finish the fight.I am not saying I am anything special in a duel, but for an example of this from the previous meta, here's a 1v1 between my fire weaver and a spellbreaker in WvW. Note that both of these builds, while not 1-shot artists, are still perfectly capable of taking down an enemy player with 20k+ health in under 5 seconds. Yet multiple times during this fight both of us are forced to back off or risk overextending and losing the fight. Looking at this it seems pretty tactical to me and not at all like the "burst and move on" description you give of the previous meta. What do you think? Are we talking apples to apples here?
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 A good balance between increased TTK and actually doing damage would be cool.Winning/losing matches to the timer because nodes stay neutral forever is pretty boring. As is people rarely if ever dying at all.
DoRi Silvia.4159 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 @AliamRationem.5172 said:@DoRi Silvia.4159 said:@"Phoebe Ascension.8437" said:By permatanking again Dori Silvia? Boring. Timing stuns/stability it all means nothing, the first person that lets his defence down (usually by worse build) dies, then the win is signed. Who thought this is a good gameplay.No chance to bypass killing as mechanic (you cant cap as compensation)Some classes terrible at 1 vs 1 (necro reaper) still had a chance cause of good mid presenceThe lack of needing to stand on something makes aoe useless. Well of corruption? Step out and done. In conquest this could mean loss of capture.No comeback possible, nobody wins 1 vs2 unlessi t's one of those 'amost everyone is downed at the end' fight.Insanely boring Anet. Just when you nerfed tons of pvp stuff, i thought the games would be faster, but less dependent on overpowered builds. In fact now the difference between overpowered and not overpowered has grown. 1) because 2 vs2, the build is more important then ever, you can hide behind anything, bad build = fast die. 2) because of the slow gameplay, classes with high survival, yet still good damage (spellbreaker, mirage, weaver, firebrand come to mind) are crushingly overpowered, while some other classes are really weak (thief, revenant, etc).Terrible anet. And yet... i will play it. Because... i don't want this achievement to be a dark roster on my journey past 40 000 achievements now. But am i having fun? Nope. Out of 8 matches, 1 was balanced and had this 'hard vs hard, exciting vs exciting' feel that some pvp matches with similar score have. All the rest was tanking for time, and feeling after 20 sec who wins no matter what happens after that.I loved 10vs10 they kinda removed that, now they sorta removed 5vs 5.The intend may have been good (for wich thanks anet). But the actually game play is horrible.And before it was a permanent burst 4 to 5second fights which I found boring. This all comes down to whether you like the tactical fights vs fast paced burst and move on fight. Personally loving the patch as it has lengthened fights. All the bs classes got helpa nerfed as they should have and now it feels more fair playing. End of the day they wont satisfy everyone but 90% ppl I talk to in game has good feedback about the patch. /praise anetSo, help me understand. How was the old meta "burst and move on"? You're suggesting that killing other players is as simple as bursting them off an opener, right? So, do players not typically defend themselves and attempt to counter pressure? No? They just roll over and die I guess? Is that what you did?I don't mean to be rude, but it just doesn't match my experience at all. Yeah, I can jump on a player with significantly less skill and just overwhelm them in seconds. It doesn't even take a bursty build to do it. But try that with a player of equal skill and you simply can't pull it off. They'll defend themselves and force you to exhaust your offense, then counter-pressure and force you to back off and recover. It becomes a chess match, even though either side is capable of killing the other in a matter of a few seconds if the opening presents itself.That's how I saw the previous meta. It was fast and high damage, which forces quick decisions and adaptation in order to exhaust your opponent's defenses and eventually create the opening to finish the fight.I am not saying I am anything special in a duel, but for an example of this from the previous meta, here's a 1v1 between my fire weaver and a spellbreaker in WvW. Note that both of these builds, while not 1-shot artists, are still perfectly capable of taking down an enemy player with 20k+ health in under 5 seconds. Yet multiple times during this fight both of us are forced to back off or risk overextending and losing the fight. Looking at this it seems pretty tactical to me and not at all like the "burst and move on" description you give of the previous meta. What do you think? Are we talking apples to apples here?TLDRBut I get what you are saying but nope I stand with my statement.Previous meta allowed some bs bursts. I remember a soul beast . He was good. But he was able to down someone within 2 secs and along with all the other bs meta builds that existed . It's good now there is no OP classes (except fb) and it feels more balanced.It's not about not being able to react it was more about how fast bursts could happen and how some classes could sustain those bursts easily and often where as some classes couldn't and that was no good. The biggest thing is the old meta was getting stale.Last update of skills maybe about 2 years and hasnt had much change at all sinceChange is good. Anet cant make everyone happy but 4 of my friends came back after patch and they are very happy. They still need more tweaking but it's a good start.
Downstate.4697 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Everyone that thought last meta was better mained an OP build that needed nerfs regardless of damage nerfs
AliamRationem.5172 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:@AliamRationem.5172 said:@DoRi Silvia.4159 said:@"Phoebe Ascension.8437" said:By permatanking again Dori Silvia? Boring. Timing stuns/stability it all means nothing, the first person that lets his defence down (usually by worse build) dies, then the win is signed. Who thought this is a good gameplay.No chance to bypass killing as mechanic (you cant cap as compensation)Some classes terrible at 1 vs 1 (necro reaper) still had a chance cause of good mid presenceThe lack of needing to stand on something makes aoe useless. Well of corruption? Step out and done. In conquest this could mean loss of capture.No comeback possible, nobody wins 1 vs2 unlessi t's one of those 'amost everyone is downed at the end' fight.Insanely boring Anet. Just when you nerfed tons of pvp stuff, i thought the games would be faster, but less dependent on overpowered builds. In fact now the difference between overpowered and not overpowered has grown. 1) because 2 vs2, the build is more important then ever, you can hide behind anything, bad build = fast die. 2) because of the slow gameplay, classes with high survival, yet still good damage (spellbreaker, mirage, weaver, firebrand come to mind) are crushingly overpowered, while some other classes are really weak (thief, revenant, etc).Terrible anet. And yet... i will play it. Because... i don't want this achievement to be a dark roster on my journey past 40 000 achievements now. But am i having fun? Nope. Out of 8 matches, 1 was balanced and had this 'hard vs hard, exciting vs exciting' feel that some pvp matches with similar score have. All the rest was tanking for time, and feeling after 20 sec who wins no matter what happens after that.I loved 10vs10 they kinda removed that, now they sorta removed 5vs 5.The intend may have been good (for wich thanks anet). But the actually game play is horrible.And before it was a permanent burst 4 to 5second fights which I found boring. This all comes down to whether you like the tactical fights vs fast paced burst and move on fight. Personally loving the patch as it has lengthened fights. All the bs classes got helpa nerfed as they should have and now it feels more fair playing. End of the day they wont satisfy everyone but 90% ppl I talk to in game has good feedback about the patch. /praise anetSo, help me understand. How was the old meta "burst and move on"? You're suggesting that killing other players is as simple as bursting them off an opener, right? So, do players not typically defend themselves and attempt to counter pressure? No? They just roll over and die I guess? Is that what you did?I don't mean to be rude, but it just doesn't match my experience at all. Yeah, I can jump on a player with significantly less skill and just overwhelm them in seconds. It doesn't even take a bursty build to do it. But try that with a player of equal skill and you simply can't pull it off. They'll defend themselves and force you to exhaust your offense, then counter-pressure and force you to back off and recover. It becomes a chess match, even though either side is capable of killing the other in a matter of a few seconds if the opening presents itself.That's how I saw the previous meta. It was fast and high damage, which forces quick decisions and adaptation in order to exhaust your opponent's defenses and eventually create the opening to finish the fight.I am not saying I am anything special in a duel, but for an example of this from the previous meta, here's a 1v1 between my fire weaver and a spellbreaker in WvW. Note that both of these builds, while not 1-shot artists, are still perfectly capable of taking down an enemy player with 20k+ health in under 5 seconds. Yet multiple times during this fight both of us are forced to back off or risk overextending and losing the fight. Looking at this it seems pretty tactical to me and not at all like the "burst and move on" description you give of the previous meta. What do you think? Are we talking apples to apples here?TLDRBut I get what you are saying but nope I stand with my statement.Previous meta allowed some bs bursts. I remember a soul beast . He was good. But he was able to down someone within 2 secs and along with all the other bs meta builds that existed . It's good now there is no OP classes (except fb) and it feels more balanced.It's not about not being able to react it was more about how fast bursts could happen and how some classes could sustain those bursts easily and often where as some classes couldn't and that was no good. The biggest thing is the old meta was getting stale.Last update of skills maybe about 2 years and hasnt had much change at all sinceChange is good. Anet cant make everyone happy but 4 of my friends came back after patch and they are very happy. They still need more tweaking but it's a good start.Hey, to each their own. I took issue with the statement about this new meta being more tactical. I think it's the opposite. It's a CC spam-fest where both landing and avoiding CC has far less impact than it did previously and half of your skills have so little impact that they barely matter (e.g. 300s cd on passives, 2s worth of inconsequential boons generated far too infrequently to matter, etc.).You can pretend that you're being strategic with your CC, but in reality you have far more CC available to you than your opponent has defenses to avoid them. It's pretty basic math when you nerf all of the defenses against CC, but don't reduce the sources of CC at all. Besides, who cares if you land it or not? You're still armed with a pool noodle! I see it giving players far more leeway to make mistakes and I'm not sure how that makes combat more skillful at all.
Tayga.3192 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 @"FrownyClown.8402" said:Everyone that thought last meta was better mained an OP build that needed nerfs regardless of damage nerfsIt's hilarious seeing some players "suddenly" become way worse after the patch.
ArthurDent.9538 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 I hate what anet has done with this balance patch and I hate that people on this forum are actually supporting it so it's most likely here to stay. Game went from fast paced and exciting action combat where mistakes were heavily punished and good kiting with terrain was necessary to succeed to facetank and spam skills on node ftw. This game has given me thousands of hours of enjoyment but now it feels like it's catering to senior citizens wanting slightly more action than weekly bingo so I'm probably done if this crap is here to stay.
kasoki.5180 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 I feel like some of you are exaggerating how much slower combat is right now. Yes, the game is slower paced right now than it was before, but it is nowhere near as bad as some of you make it seem, nor is it suddenly "not fast paced" just because previous version was faster. And mistakes are still punished, as a matter of fact (IMO) now it feels like reacting to mistakes, properly focusing targets, properly using map (etc...) is more detrimental.I am far from some expert on PvP in this game but it feels much more healthier (for now) and enjoyable
monotony.4931 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 There is actually room to make interesting plays now. This is the best GW has been since 2015. It's of course not perfect, there need to be fixes, but this is so much better than the nonsense we were subject too since HoT and PoF.
Sindrener.1592 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 First of all what so many of you have such a hard time to understand. This was 100% necessary in order to move forward from the clownfiesta PoF balance brought. Yes the combat may be slow at this point but this is the ground where they can build forward from, how can you not understand this? When was the last time skill was needed in actual 5v5? In tournaments? It's all the way to end of HoT where we actually had somewhat a need to have synergy and work together. Not just press W and hammer all your keys and stuff just falls, this is not how the game should be and if you are honestly wanting that back I feel bad you really had no idea how beautiful gw2 used to be in core/short while of HoT
Zhaid Zhem.6508 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 @FrownyClown.8402 said:Everyone that thought last meta was better mained an OP build that needed nerfs regardless of damage nerfsI don't see it like that.Before patch, even if you were not the counter, you could outplay because your foe made a mistake and you read its build : cd of BS, blocks, endurance etc.Now you can chain mistakes, and people will still not be able to kill you because they don't have the DMG . With rev I was litteraly cc locked for at least 6 sec, and the elem + a war couldn't kill me fast enough; too bad I got my legend swap up, my heal, my kite ...Now you can't even cleave a downed necro because he will rez faster than you put dmg, or an allie will rez him faster and won't take serious dmg. Or because you don't have stab to stomp ... There are still OP/cheesy builds, but on average it's too slow, too tanky, too boring. It looks like a turned based game.
bluberblasen.9684 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 showing the 2 most op classes ( apart stealth ) from the old patch.thank you anet for the new patch. ( coming from ele player )
Mbelch.9028 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 @bluri.2653 said:First of all what so many of you have such a hard time to understand. This was 100% necessary in order to move forward from the clownfiesta PoF balance brought. Yes the combat may be slow at this point but this is the ground where they can build forward from, how can you not understand this? When was the last time skill was needed in actual 5v5? In tournaments? It's all the way to end of HoT where we actually had somewhat a need to have synergy and work together. Not just press W and hammer all your keys and stuff just falls, this is not how the game should be and if you are honestly wanting that back I feel bad you really had no idea how beautiful gw2 used to be in core/short while of HoTI miss core man.
Axl.8924 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 @bravan.3876 said:Don't increase dmg, just lower sustain (passive facetank sustain before active sustain) of the tanky outliners (Necro, FB for example), otherwise the powercreep just starts right again.Before it it was basically call of duty wars with 1 hit kills and it was basically whoever hit all skills got em off got to win. This aint call of duty.Necromancers literally couldn't function in a high burst meta with TTK as high as it was, it just had to go down.Also right now with the way it is, its going to be more strategical about getting someone cced in the right way and outwitting instead of CC ONESHOT GG!!!
Rickster.8752 Posted February 27, 2020 Posted February 27, 2020 Sustain seems higher because people are in deathmatch.Deathmatch is a joke because people are kite and stay alive. That has never changed in the history of the game.
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