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Ban quickness from pvp


Abelisk.5148

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Quickness Warriors (QW) defending their boon, as usual. I see no constructive, or rather deconstructive feedback as to why this is a sub-par idea.

My argument is as follows: quickness accelerates animations, preventing many people, if not all, from adjusting to the incoming attack. It is an overpowered boon that is sourced by classes that are notoriously loaded, like Firebrand.

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Quickness is given out far too liberally. Hate to join the mesmer hate train, but it's chronomancer's fault - though more because of PvE than PvP.

Quickness should be rare, reserved for elite skills, hard to execute sequences, or abilities which give you almost nothing else. And it should almost never be for a group.

The problem with quickness is that it makes abilities which are normally dodge-able not realistically dodge-able. And if the ability was balanced with the assumption that it's dodge-able, that balance goes out the window with quickness.

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I've wondered this from the PVE side as well. All it does is raise the standard of performance. Bosses in fractals and raids are made expecting you to have full quickness, so they're too hard if you don't have it. It makes rotations harder to do and more punishing when you mess up. Anet can't take it out, though, because then they'd have to nerf all of the bosses in the game to deal with a lack of quickness.

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@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I've wondered this from the PVE side as well. All it does is raise the standard of performance. Bosses in fractals and raids are made expecting you to have full quickness, so they're too hard if you don't have it. It makes rotations harder to do and more punishing when you mess up. Anet can't take it out, though, because then they'd have to nerf all of the bosses in the game to deal with a lack of quickness.They can easily take it out for PvE - just need to lower boss HP to compensate. Keep it on a few elites or other longer CD abilities for burst phases of bosses.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:It doesn't need to be banned or removed, just reduced to 25% like Alacrity. Protection and Swiftness too, please.Then you're watering them down. The idea behind boons like Alacrity and Protection is to be very powerful, but relatively short-lived and not widely available. That makes timing their use more important. For boons like that, they weaker you make them, the longer you need to make their durations to compensate - otherwise the skills feel weak. But as you raise durations, you get into a situation where the boons are almost always present. In summary, reduce availability - not potency. Alacrity was a special case because it amplified other skills - especially boons - by drastically increasing their up-time.

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@Exedore.6320 said:

@"Hannelore.8153" said:It doesn't need to be banned or removed, just reduced to 25% like Alacrity. Protection and Swiftness too, please.Then you're watering them down. The idea behind boons like Alacrity and Protection is to be very powerful, but relatively short-lived and not widely available. That makes timing their use more important. For boons like that, they weaker you make them, the longer you need to make their durations to compensate - otherwise the skills feel weak. But as you raise durations, you get into a situation where the boons are almost always present. In summary, reduce availability - not potency. Alacrity was a special case because it amplified other skills - especially boons - by drastically increasing their up-time.

Quickness is an extreme DPS increase that trumps all other attributes of the build. It takes many traits, runes, sigils and food (in PvE/WvW) in order to match what Quickness gives, and you have a similar problem with Protection, which is stacked with other damage reductions to reach up to 50%+ reduction on top of what armor and barriers already give, and Swiftness, which is usually near-permanent.

Watering them down is the only way we'll ever get balance, the "action game" paradigm where you cast short bursts of highly effective skills at just the right time, has failed, and is responsible for alot of what is wrong with the game now, because its counter play to counter play, resulting in a "hall of mirrors" effect as players keep trying to counter the counter play, with few resolutions beyond either instakills or unending fights.

There has to be room for alternate outcomes, especially in the competitive game modes. This isn't ping-pong.

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@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Quickness Warriors (QW) defending their boon, as usual. I see no constructive, or rather deconstructive feedback as to why this is a sub-par idea.

My argument is as follows: quickness accelerates animations, preventing many people, if not all, from adjusting to the incoming attack. It is an overpowered boon that is sourced by classes that are notoriously loaded, like Firebrand.

My argument:

A warrior that is 50% faster still telegraphs all their moves in the short period of time that they are 50% faster. Instead of removing an entire boon from the game, dodge the warrior that is 50% faster.

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@Hannelore.8153 said:Quickness is an extreme DPS increase that trumps all other attributes of the build. It takes many traits, runes, sigils and food (in PvE/WvW) in order to match what Quickness gives, and you have a similar problem with Protection, which is stacked with other damage reductions to reach up to 50%+ reduction on top of what armor and barriers already give, and Swiftness, which is usually near-permanent.If quickness is so amazing, why are there many quickness-granting skills which aren't used?

Quickness basically falls into two varieties:

  1. Pair it with a specific skill or sequence of skills for a burst. prime example is rapid fire on ranger It also used to be paired with rifle warrior burst skill as a gimmick build.
  2. Have enough quickness uptime that a large chunk of average skills are boosted.

The second case is the larger overall problem as there is no real way to counter it. The first case just needs monitored for problem combos (particularly when the make a high damage skill go from realistically dodge-able to not), but can produce interesting builds and moments.

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