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Not enough dmg to kill condi bunkers


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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

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@bravan.3876 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Nerfing sustain from too tanky classes is the only way makes sense in terms of the philosophy of the last big patch. If you start to increase dmg already, the power creep starts right now again. Also condi dmg should be looked at, imo it is less reduced than power dmg. Both, that condis were not changed well and that stuff will be too (face-)tanky was expectable when looking at patchnodes pre release already. But fixes seems to hapepn fast at least, also the last hotfixes did not rly solve all issues (example Necro still too tanky), rezzes (in particular from classes with more than the normal rezz ability like Necro, Ranger etc) are still too strong and they forgot Ele builds (Tempest/ Weaver water) and Ranger pets.

Mesmer is very tanky with all the evades on weapon skills and stealth. I agree their sustain should be nerfed. I think giving all their evades longer cooldowns. Like the axe evade. That would be a good start.

The one dodge change forced Mesmer more into those toxic mechanics like retargeting on axe and Illusionary Ambush to survive. I told all of you that if there will be a playable Condimirage build than it will be even more annoying or at least as annoying to fight than the previous one. That is when you nerf the wrong things, balancing around the real issues and do nerfs that kill skill ceiling instead of higher it. Non of the balance issues Condimirage had pre patched were solved by the one dodge change. Not a single one. It is still passive and it is still low skill ceiling, not surprised it finds a way to still annoy ppl. So enjoy the new cancer while i eat my popcorn. But calling out Condimirage first is still a good joke, it is far away from being in the top 3 of broken specs atm.

I heard core mes was busted after the nerf to illusions, so wouldn't it be risky to nerf sustain for core and make it unviable? Not seeing much core mes playing.

Don't want to kill mesmers in general.

Shouldn't we be focused on how to make mes core more desired to be played?

I asked about mes and i was already told by anna the two twitch streamers known for playing mes are playing mirage instead of core after the nerfs to illusion, and someone else in game told me the same thing except he/she said shorts wasn't even a skilled mez and was toxic(i don't know if its even true these allegations)

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@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Why not?

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

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@Axl.8924 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Why not?

You can't kite in the arenas very well. They're very small, not very many no port spots or los, and classes with a lot of AoEs like fb, necro, rev, lightning rod ele, anything with weakness/blinds/projectile denial/etc. etc. are hard to deal with. We're basically forced to fight in medium to close range which is not our strong suit.

It's very clear that the of the leaderboards are not dominated by rangers.

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@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

Okay so you're saying, the fact that you can't completely ignore the ranger means we need to be nerfed?

Great.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

Okay so you're saying, the fact that you can't completely ignore the ranger means we need to be nerfed?

Great.

Now you’re blowing my comment out of proportion. The fact that I can’t switch off of you, unless you’re on the other side of the map, is what requires a nerf.

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@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

Okay so you're saying, the fact that you can't completely ignore the ranger means we need to be nerfed?

Great.

Now you’re blowing my comment out of proportion. The fact that I can’t switch off of you, unless you’re on the other side of the map, is what requires a nerf.

Okay so you could let any other class completely freecast on you without an issue right? It's just ranger that can't be allowed to do this?

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

Okay so you're saying, the fact that you can't completely ignore the ranger means we need to be nerfed?

Great.

Now you’re blowing my comment out of proportion. The fact that I can’t switch off of you, unless you’re on the other side of the map, is what requires a nerf.

Okay so you could let any other class completely freecast on you without an issue right? It's just ranger that can't be allowed to do this?

That’s not what I’m saying. However in matchups where I have ranger on the receiving end. I have to always focus the ranger or fail. Do you not see anything wrong with that?

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@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

Okay so you're saying, the fact that you can't completely ignore the ranger means we need to be nerfed?

Great.

Now you’re blowing my comment out of proportion. The fact that I can’t switch off of you, unless you’re on the other side of the map, is what requires a nerf.

Okay so you could let any other class completely freecast on you without an issue right? It's just ranger that can't be allowed to do this?

That’s not what I’m saying. However in matchups where I have ranger on the receiving end. I have to always focus the ranger or fail. Do you
not
see anything wrong with that?

Why do you have to focus the ranger first?

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

Okay so you're saying, the fact that you can't completely ignore the ranger means we need to be nerfed?

Great.

Now you’re blowing my comment out of proportion. The fact that I can’t switch off of you, unless you’re on the other side of the map, is what requires a nerf.

Okay so you could let any other class completely freecast on you without an issue right? It's just ranger that can't be allowed to do this?

That’s not what I’m saying. However in matchups where I have ranger on the receiving end. I have to always focus the ranger or fail. Do you
not
see anything wrong with that?

Why do you have to focus the ranger first?

Do you want me to explain the concept of free-casting to you?

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@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

Okay so you're saying, the fact that you can't completely ignore the ranger means we need to be nerfed?

Great.

Now you’re blowing my comment out of proportion. The fact that I can’t switch off of you, unless you’re on the other side of the map, is what requires a nerf.

Okay so you could let any other class completely freecast on you without an issue right? It's just ranger that can't be allowed to do this?

That’s not what I’m saying. However in matchups where I have ranger on the receiving end. I have to always focus the ranger or fail. Do you
not
see anything wrong with that?

Why do you have to focus the ranger first?

Do you want me to explain the concept of free-casting to you?

And I'm asking, what's wrong with having to focus a target down? Would you let a necro freecast in a teamfight and complain about having to focus them afterwards?

Would you get +1'd by a thief, let them freecast, and complain about having to focus them afterwards? If there's a deadeye around or even a rifle berserker, you're going to have to focus them as well.

If the ranger decides to run a full glass zerker build, just kill him. He's going to blow more than half of his utilities on that initial burst. I don't see what the issue here is asides from the fact that you don't like focusing rangers?

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

Okay so you're saying, the fact that you can't completely ignore the ranger means we need to be nerfed?

Great.

Now you’re blowing my comment out of proportion. The fact that I can’t switch off of you, unless you’re on the other side of the map, is what requires a nerf.

Okay so you could let any other class completely freecast on you without an issue right? It's just ranger that can't be allowed to do this?

That’s not what I’m saying. However in matchups where I have ranger on the receiving end. I have to always focus the ranger or fail. Do you
not
see anything wrong with that?

Why do you have to focus the ranger first?

Do you want me to explain the concept of free-casting to you?

And I'm asking, what's wrong with having to focus a target down? Would you let a necro freecast in a teamfight and complain about having to focus them afterwards?

Would you get +1'd by a thief, let them freecast, and complain about having to focus them afterwards? If there's a deadeye around or even a rifle berserker, you're going to have to focus them as well.

If the ranger decides to run a full glass zerker build, just kill him. He's going to blow more than half of his utilities on that initial burst. I don't see what the issue here is asides from the fact that you don't
like
focusing rangers?

You misunderstood. I don’t disagree with the examples above. However in a 2v2 matchup where Ranger is present. You’re forced to pressure the ranger above all else, or perish.

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@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

Okay so you're saying, the fact that you can't completely ignore the ranger means we need to be nerfed?

Great.

Now you’re blowing my comment out of proportion. The fact that I can’t switch off of you, unless you’re on the other side of the map, is what requires a nerf.

Okay so you could let any other class completely freecast on you without an issue right? It's just ranger that can't be allowed to do this?

That’s not what I’m saying. However in matchups where I have ranger on the receiving end. I have to always focus the ranger or fail. Do you
not
see anything wrong with that?

Why do you have to focus the ranger first?

Do you want me to explain the concept of free-casting to you?

And I'm asking, what's wrong with having to focus a target down? Would you let a necro freecast in a teamfight and complain about having to focus them afterwards?

Would you get +1'd by a thief, let them freecast, and complain about having to focus them afterwards? If there's a deadeye around or even a rifle berserker, you're going to have to focus them as well.

If the ranger decides to run a full glass zerker build, just kill him. He's going to blow more than half of his utilities on that initial burst. I don't see what the issue here is asides from the fact that you don't
like
focusing rangers?

You misunderstood. I don’t disagree with the examples above. However in a 2v2 matchup where Ranger is present. You’re forced to pressure the ranger above all else, or perish.

That's not true at all. Against core rangers, killing the pet after a pet swap means they're useless for the next 60 seconds.

On Soulbeast, avoid the initial Sic Em burst and they have nothing left for the next 30 seconds.

Also, in a lot of the 2v2s I've played, (since I'm higher rated), these players use weakness, condis, projectile denial, evade my CCs, etc. etc. while killing my teammate first because I can't do much afterwards... I'm generally not the first person to go down.

Like this black and white, "Kill the ranger or die!" is silly. There are more than enough ways for every class to counter longbow and a 30 second cooldown Sic Em burst. If you're getting hit by a giant bear or stationary Worldly Impact, try dodging earlier and not standing still, respectively.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

Okay so you're saying, the fact that you can't completely ignore the ranger means we need to be nerfed?

Great.

Now you’re blowing my comment out of proportion. The fact that I can’t switch off of you, unless you’re on the other side of the map, is what requires a nerf.

Okay so you could let any other class completely freecast on you without an issue right? It's just ranger that can't be allowed to do this?

That’s not what I’m saying. However in matchups where I have ranger on the receiving end. I have to always focus the ranger or fail. Do you
not
see anything wrong with that?

Why do you have to focus the ranger first?

Do you want me to explain the concept of free-casting to you?

And I'm asking, what's wrong with having to focus a target down? Would you let a necro freecast in a teamfight and complain about having to focus them afterwards?

Would you get +1'd by a thief, let them freecast, and complain about having to focus them afterwards? If there's a deadeye around or even a rifle berserker, you're going to have to focus them as well.

If the ranger decides to run a full glass zerker build, just kill him. He's going to blow more than half of his utilities on that initial burst. I don't see what the issue here is asides from the fact that you don't
like
focusing rangers?

You misunderstood. I don’t disagree with the examples above. However in a 2v2 matchup where Ranger is present. You’re forced to pressure the ranger above all else, or perish.

That's not true at all. Against core rangers, killing the pet after a pet swap means they're useless for the next 60 seconds.

On Soulbeast, avoid the initial Sic Em burst and they have nothing left for the next 30 seconds.

Also, in a lot of the 2v2s I've played, (since I'm higher rated), these players use weakness, condis, projectile denial, evade my CCs, etc. etc. while killing my teammate first because I can't do much afterwards... I'm generally not the first person to go down.

You have to realize I’m obv talking from the perspective of my own team comp. mind you I do have a shit ton of decay right now cuz I didn’t play this past week cuz FB/Necro/Rev but it’s on the agenda. That being said, I argue that ranger sustain needs to go up and burst potential to go down.

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@ArlAlt.1630 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

Okay so you're saying, the fact that you can't completely ignore the ranger means we need to be nerfed?

Great.

Now you’re blowing my comment out of proportion. The fact that I can’t switch off of you, unless you’re on the other side of the map, is what requires a nerf.

Okay so you could let any other class completely freecast on you without an issue right? It's just ranger that can't be allowed to do this?

That’s not what I’m saying. However in matchups where I have ranger on the receiving end. I have to always focus the ranger or fail. Do you
not
see anything wrong with that?

Why do you have to focus the ranger first?

Do you want me to explain the concept of free-casting to you?

And I'm asking, what's wrong with having to focus a target down? Would you let a necro freecast in a teamfight and complain about having to focus them afterwards?

Would you get +1'd by a thief, let them freecast, and complain about having to focus them afterwards? If there's a deadeye around or even a rifle berserker, you're going to have to focus them as well.

If the ranger decides to run a full glass zerker build, just kill him. He's going to blow more than half of his utilities on that initial burst. I don't see what the issue here is asides from the fact that you don't
like
focusing rangers?

You misunderstood. I don’t disagree with the examples above. However in a 2v2 matchup where Ranger is present. You’re forced to pressure the ranger above all else, or perish.

That's not true at all. Against core rangers, killing the pet after a pet swap means they're useless for the next 60 seconds.

On Soulbeast, avoid the initial Sic Em burst and they have nothing left for the next 30 seconds.

Also, in a lot of the 2v2s I've played, (since I'm higher rated), these players use weakness, condis, projectile denial, evade my CCs, etc. etc. while killing my teammate first because I can't do much afterwards... I'm generally not the first person to go down.

You have to realize I’m obv talking from the perspective of my own team comp. mind you I do have a kitten ton of decay right now cuz I didn’t play this past week cuz FB/Necro/Rev but it’s on the agenda. That being said, I argue that ranger sustain needs to go up and burst potential to go down.

What's your team comp? Decay doesn't affect matchmaking either.

I agree. The recent patches have pushed Soulbeast from a fun, reactive, decision-making playstyle into gimmick oneshot builds. Very lame. Nerf the damage modifiers, give us our second pet back, and add utility back onto GS through auto evades, crippling throw, and reduce the cd on GS4 while lowering the block uptime accordingly.

I very much dislike the current playstyle of Soulbeast. However, my point is, there are plenty of ways to counter the build.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:Ranger is weak against projectile denial, blind, unblockable, boon strip, reveal, sustained condi pressure, power burst, and anything skills that our pet can trigger on accident.

If you refuse to take any of these, don't complain about ranger. That's like not running condi clear vs. a condi mirage and going "Wow that hurt."

Like people are running amulets without toughness whining about how that giant telegraphed bear they didn't dodge did big damage. :joy:

The complaint is more about being forced to always check the Ranger and make him a priority. The mere fact you have to do that, should tell you smth is wrong in the grand scheme of things.

How is that any different than telling your team to focus a necro? Or pressure a rev so he can't freecast? Or focus the deadeye? Etc. etc.

You're not supposed to leave these damage builds alone. Otherwise, people on your team are going to die. However, if you focus them down, (since they're running glassy builds), they will go down quickly.

Isn't Necro and glass an oxymoron?

Well the current bunker necro is what you get when you constantly nerf damage.

But no, I was referring to spite curses pre-patch.

And I was referring to 2v2 as it’s the current mini season.

Ranger is not good in 2v2s.

Neither is Mesmer, the fact I have to always check you in the encounter, even if you’re the weak link in the comp... well then...

Okay so you're saying, the fact that you can't completely ignore the ranger means we need to be nerfed?

Great.

Now you’re blowing my comment out of proportion. The fact that I can’t switch off of you, unless you’re on the other side of the map, is what requires a nerf.

Okay so you could let any other class completely freecast on you without an issue right? It's just ranger that can't be allowed to do this?

That’s not what I’m saying. However in matchups where I have ranger on the receiving end. I have to always focus the ranger or fail. Do you
not
see anything wrong with that?

Why do you have to focus the ranger first?

Do you want me to explain the concept of free-casting to you?

And I'm asking, what's wrong with having to focus a target down? Would you let a necro freecast in a teamfight and complain about having to focus them afterwards?

Would you get +1'd by a thief, let them freecast, and complain about having to focus them afterwards? If there's a deadeye around or even a rifle berserker, you're going to have to focus them as well.

If the ranger decides to run a full glass zerker build, just kill him. He's going to blow more than half of his utilities on that initial burst. I don't see what the issue here is asides from the fact that you don't
like
focusing rangers?

You misunderstood. I don’t disagree with the examples above. However in a 2v2 matchup where Ranger is present. You’re forced to pressure the ranger above all else, or perish.

That's not true at all. Against core rangers, killing the pet after a pet swap means they're useless for the next 60 seconds.

On Soulbeast, avoid the initial Sic Em burst and they have nothing left for the next 30 seconds.

Also, in a lot of the 2v2s I've played, (since I'm higher rated), these players use weakness, condis, projectile denial, evade my CCs, etc. etc. while killing my teammate first because I can't do much afterwards... I'm generally not the first person to go down.

You have to realize I’m obv talking from the perspective of my own team comp. mind you I do have a kitten ton of decay right now cuz I didn’t play this past week cuz FB/Necro/Rev but it’s on the agenda. That being said, I argue that ranger sustain needs to go up and burst potential to go down.

What's your team comp? Decay doesn't affect matchmaking either.

I agree. The recent patches have pushed Soulbeast from a fun, reactive, decision-making playstyle into gimmick oneshot builds. Very lame. Nerf the damage modifiers, give us our second pet back, and add utility back onto GS through auto evades, crippling throw, and reduce the cd on GS4 while lowering the block uptime accordingly.

I very much dislike the current playstyle of Soulbeast. However, my point is, there
are
plenty of ways to counter the build.

Oh I never argued the build lacks counters. I’m the living embodiment of a counter to it. My issue was having to always prioritize Ranger, whenever I get matched against one.

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Anet needs to realise that power and condition damage stats are not equal and adjust the secondary stats that comes with condition damage accordingly. For example soldiers which gives power vit and toughness is garbage compared to dire which gives condi dmg vit and toughness. With dire stats you basically have the damage equivalent of berserkers with the tankiness of soldiers. So either the vit and toughness from dire needs to be lowered or the condi dmg needs to be lowered. It doesn't make sense that condi builds get to automatically be free tanks but power builds are forced to choose. You either build tons of condi dmg and be squishy or low condi dmg and be tanky. It is insane how condi builds can still be bunkers and deal tons of damage even with op stats like dire and trailblazer removed. This just proves how imbalanced the stat distribution for condi builds really are.

I also think that removing stats from PvP is not the way to go. Balancing out all the stats and make them available to use will increase diversity in both PvP and WvW.

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@szeng.1267 said:Balancing out all the stats and make them available to use will increase diversity in both PvP and WvW.

Give us the ability to choose our stat combos (with some restrictions ofc) and nerf condi damage scaling. I am all in for this.

I just want my 1250 power 1250 condition 500 healing amulet xD

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@Tayga.3192 said:I just want my 1250 power 1250 condition 500 healing amulet xD

The whole point of balancing condi is so that you can't have 1200 of condi and 1200 of any other stat. All stats with condi dmg as main should have all its secondary stats nerfed, all stats with condi dmg as the secondary should have condi dmg nerfed, and if condi dmg co mains with another stat than everything should be nerfed.

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@szeng.1267 said:Anet needs to realise that power and condition damage stats are not equal and adjust the secondary stats that comes with condition damage accordingly. For example soldiers which gives power vit and toughness is garbage compared to dire which gives condi dmg vit and toughness. With dire stats you basically have the damage equivalent of berserkers with the tankiness of soldiers. So either the vit and toughness from dire needs to be lowered or the condi dmg needs to be lowered. It doesn't make sense that condi builds get to automatically be free tanks but power builds are forced to choose. You either build tons of condi dmg and be squishy or low condi dmg and be tanky. It is insane how condi builds can still be bunkers and deal tons of damage even with op stats like dire and trailblazer removed. This just proves how imbalanced the stat distribution for condi builds really are.

I also think that removing stats from PvP is not the way to go. Balancing out all the stats and make them available to use will increase diversity in both PvP and WvW.

This is what I was saying before the patch.There's no power/precision/vitality stat set, every power set with defensive stat has toughness(wasted against condi), or has ferocity with vitality(wasted as you can't crit), while condi gets to reduce power damage taken, have big health pool, and big irreducible damage with no reliance on the chance it might, or might not crit.If condi didn't ignore toughness it would close the gap a lot I think, but would still be somewhat strong.

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Unlike power/direct damage, condi not only has to land in the first place, it also has to tick for full effect, and can be completely removed. Meaning condi-builds need some sustain to ever see their damage through. Sure, power builds are concerned with power, precision, and ferocity stats, but they have the advantage of instant damage application, making sustain inherently less important. This is often forgotten when only looking at amulet stats on the surface.

Except for condi-burst, which shouldn't really be a thing, condi-builds should generally have more sustain than power builds due to the nature and rate of their damage application. Something to keep in mind when discussing the power-condi balance.

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@avey.4201 said:This is what I was saying before the patch.There's no power/precision/vitality stat set, every power set with defensive stat has toughness(wasted against condi), or has ferocity with vitality(wasted as you can't crit), while condi gets to reduce power damage taken, have big health pool, and big irreducible damage with no reliance on the chance it might, or might not crit.If condi didn't ignore toughness it would close the gap a lot I think, but would still be somewhat strong.

Although toughness reducing condi dmg will be more balanced, I don't think this is the direction anet should go. I think heavy condi dmg by design should counter bunkers by penetrating its toughness while bunker builds should counter power by out tanking its dps and power should counter condi dmg by out dpsing it. It just so happens that condi builds also get to be bunkers.

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