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What is this games combat trying to be?


Zexanima.7851

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TL;DRWhat is this games combat trying to support? Slower, planned, methodical combat that you would expect in an RPG or faster, twitch based combat that you might expect from an FPS? Something in between? Where in between?


Without knowing this it's hard to say what is balanced and what isn't. What might be considered balanced in PvP in an FPS isn't the same as what would be balanced in a MOBA. Not knowing what kind of combat the gameplay is trying to support I think gets a lot of players crossed in their discussions about how things should be balanced. I'll use as an example; the infamous "one shot".

People on one side are okay with one shot builds. These people are probably in more of the park of having the combat lean into reaction based. Things hit hard, things hit fast, and messing up a single skill can cost you the fight. On the other side of the field is the people who hate one shot builds. They are looking for strategic combat not based entirely around someone's reaction speed. A single mess up (and this mess up may just be not reacting fast enough) shouldn't cost you the fight. There is time to plan, adapt, and over come through observation of your opponent. The long game vs the short game basically. This is just an example but this applies to other cases as well such "bunker".

Where do you all think it should be? Why? How? I don't have a good answer personally. If I were just to throw out some "gut feeling" answer I would say 5 seconds shortest if someone stands there and does absolutely nothing against a glass cannon and 45-60 seconds if both players are built to be bunkers. This is for 1v1 of course, it all goes out the window in XvX.

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@Zexanima.7851 said:Something in between?

Yeh.

Where in between?

Methodical until someone whiffs their key skill or tries to use a telegraphed skill that they need to go off (heal, mirror blade, signet, a burst that will hit if you remain cced)then very, very twitch.

Where do you all think it should be

See above. I like the sliding scale. It's deeper than just trying to force everyone into the same combat style and just saying "kitten you" to the people that don't like it. It's also much easier to say "you may like oneshot meta but this person likes bunker, so lean fully into glass if you wanna get your twitch fix" when both playstyles have a foothold on the meta. more below.

@Zexanima.7851 said:People on one side are okay with one shot builds.

These people lean glass. Vs other glass, they'll get that. Vs bunker they may be frustrated.

A single mess up (and this mess up may just be not reacting fast enough) shouldn't cost you the fight.

These people lean bunker. Vs other bunkers they'll get that. Vs glass they may be frustrated.

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It should aim for clean combat before anything else. The problem is all the safe damage and mess stacking / instant cast non animation skills mixed with condi air pollution radiating from the classes where not showering is meta because you can give the enemy all the skittles of condi in 2 buttons tops.And if it gets cleansed then plan B is to throw mondays underwear at them which doesn't have a travel animation, ( it starts at your location. ) all while running away leaving a trail of liquid poo you hope for them to step in.

This is the combat the "Strategists" like because it holds their unwashed hands.

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All I have wanted out of this game is fair counterplay to every kind of build. That doesnt mean there shouldnt be counters or imbalanced matchups, but instead there should be a way to reasonably counter each kind of build and playstyle when a player has enough skill and game knowledge.

For example, 1 shot builds are fine if they really are glass cannons, and if there is a skillful way to predict and avoid their burst. Bunker builds are fine if you are able to slowly outplay them by predicting their attacks and setting up your own combos. Aoe damage is fine if it has obvious telegraphs, and players have an opportunity to reposition before it does damage.

In my opinion, the places where the game balance/design fails is when counterplay is removed or ignored through in game mechanics. For example, stealth removes predictability from 1 shots. Excessive healing/sustain removes the ability to outplay bunkers. Abundant or very large aoe removes the importance of positioning from combat.

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