Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Official Ritualist thread


Recommended Posts

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:Revenant wont get ritualist. Its not going to happen for them. You're going to have to get over that.

No one is more fiting for ritualist than revenant, in fact revenant's PvP title say it all:Source:

Win 150 rated arena games as a revenant.Sending my enemies to meet the legends.Title: Title icon.png Champion
Ritualist

Now, at the same time, since ANet don't create e-specs with the same name as the PvP title, it mean that there will not be any "ritualist" e-spec for any profession.

I wait with baited breath for Guardian to get Paragon, then.

It's likely that "Ritualist", per se, will never get used as an elite spec name. We'll get some other name applied to any such elite spec, so they can leave the opportunity open to use similar themes and mechanics for another elite specialisation on another profession some time in the future. "Renegade" has a nice ring to it, maybe it could be based on summoning the warband members of one of the leaders of the revolution against the Flame Legion or something?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 121
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:Revenant wont get ritualist. Its not going to happen for them. You're going to have to get over that.

No one is more fiting for ritualist than revenant, in fact revenant's PvP title say it all:Source:

Win 150 rated arena games as a revenant.Sending my enemies to meet the legends.Title: Title icon.png Champion
Ritualist

Now, at the same time, since ANet don't create e-specs with the same name as the PvP title, it mean that there will not be any "ritualist" e-spec for any profession.

I wait with baited breath for Guardian to get Paragon, then.

It's likely that "Ritualist", per se, will never get used as an elite spec name. We'll get some other name applied to any such elite spec, so they can leave the opportunity open to use similar themes and mechanics for another elite specialisation on another profession some time in the future. "Renegade" has a nice ring to it, maybe it could be based on summoning the warband members of one of the leaders of the revolution against the Flame Legion or something?

All of the PvP title for each profession sound appaeling for e-specs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:Revenant wont get ritualist. Its not going to happen for them. You're going to have to get over that.

No one is more fiting for ritualist than revenant, in fact revenant's PvP title say it all:Source:

Win 150 rated arena games as a revenant.Sending my enemies to meet the legends.Title: Title icon.png Champion
Ritualist

Now, at the same time, since ANet don't create e-specs with the same name as the PvP title, it mean that there will not be any "ritualist" e-spec for any profession.

Why does it say "champion revered"?

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:Revenant wont get ritualist. Its not going to happen for them. You're going to have to get over that.

No one is more fiting for ritualist than revenant, in fact revenant's PvP title say it all:Source:

Win 150 rated arena games as a revenant.Sending my enemies to meet the legends.Title: Title icon.png Champion
Ritualist

Now, at the same time, since ANet don't create e-specs with the same name as the PvP title, it mean that there will not be any "ritualist" e-spec for any profession.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ritualist_Josa

Explain why this ritualist is using necromancer skills.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"Lily.1935" said:Why does it say "champion revered"?

Who know? At the end of the day the title is champion ritualist anyway.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ritualist_Josa

Explain why this ritualist is using necromancer skills.

Does he? Well I could just say that this "ritualist Josa" is channeling a legendary necromancer and you couldn't prove me wrong. Because that's just how revenant work.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:Why does it say "champion revered"?

Who know? At the end of the day the title is champion ritualist anyway.

Explain why this ritualist is using necromancer skills.

Does he? Well I could just say that this "ritualist Josa" is channeling a legendary necromancer and you couldn't prove me wrong. Because that's just how revenant work.

Actually I can. Because they're from 250 years ago and Revenant is new magic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:Why does it say "champion revered"?

Who know? At the end of the day the title is champion ritualist anyway.

Explain why this ritualist is using necromancer skills.

Does he? Well I could just say that this "ritualist Josa" is channeling a legendary necromancer and you couldn't prove me wrong. Because that's just how revenant work.

Also that's not how the burden of proof works. You're making a claim, you need to show it to be the case. Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lily.1935 said:

@Lily.1935 said:Why does it say "champion revered"?

Who know? At the end of the day the title is champion ritualist anyway.

Explain why this ritualist is using necromancer skills.

Does he? Well I could just say that this "ritualist Josa" is channeling a legendary necromancer and you couldn't prove me wrong. Because that's just how revenant work.

Also that's not how the burden of proof works. You're making a claim, you need to show it to be the case. Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Well I have just as many evidences that you do and my claim make sense.You're saying that necromancer is a ritualist basing yourself on the skills an NPC whose name include the word "ritualist".I'm saying revenant is a ritualist basing myself on a title specific to the revenant. And on top of that I point out that revenant channel/summon (you know like ritualist did in GW) legend that can be varied and encompass any profession included the necromancer.

You can deny as much as you want, the wording associated to the revenant always bring the player back to the GW ritualist's own wording. It's also not hard to see similarities between the revenant summoning legends and the ritualist borrowing the power of "human legends" like Songkai, Mingson, Daoshen, Xinrae, Glaive, Lee Sa, Kuurong, Naomei, Vorizun, Kaolai, Lee Min... etc. The only difference being that the revenant bind the legend to himself while the ritualist bind it to material objects (be it weapons or ashes).

Obviously your opinion also have it's own valid arguments with the wording in the necromancer's blood magic refering to "rites" or "rituals". However, seeing as this wording refer mostly to "wells" which are in GW already a mechanism bound to the necromancer, it's difficult to really draw a parallele between this wording and the GW's ritualist.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Lily.1935 said:Why does it say "champion revered"?

Who know? At the end of the day the title is champion ritualist anyway.

Explain why this ritualist is using necromancer skills.

Does he? Well I could just say that this "ritualist Josa" is channeling a legendary necromancer and you couldn't prove me wrong. Because that's just how revenant work.

Also that's not how the burden of proof works. You're making a claim, you need to show it to be the case. Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Well I have just as many evidences that you do and my claim make sense.You're saying that necromancer is a ritualist basing yourself on the skills an NPC whose name include the word "ritualist".I'm saying revenant is a ritualist basing myself on a title specific to the revenant. And on top of that I point out that revenant channel/summon (you know like ritualist did in GW) legend that can be varied and encompass any profession included the necromancer.

You can deny as much as you want, the wording associated to the revenant always bring the player back to the GW ritualist's own wording. It's also not hard to see similarities between the revenant summoning legends and the ritualist borrowing the power of "human legends" like Songkai, Mingson, Daoshen, Xinrae, Glaive, Lee Sa, Kuurong, Naomei, Vorizun, Kaolai, Lee Min... etc. The only difference being that the revenant bind the legend to himself while the ritualist bind it to material objects (be it weapons or ashes).

Obviously your opinion also have it's own valid arguments with the wording in the necromancer's blood magic refering to "rites" or "rituals". However, seeing as this wording refer mostly to "wells" which are in GW already a mechanism bound to the necromancer, it's difficult to really draw a parallele between this wording and the GW's ritualist.

Actually, I've pointed to countless in game examples from both GW1 and GW2 in the past, over and over again. And even pointed out how the Revenant's scope isn't limited to the realm of torment or the Underworld like the Necromancer/Ritualist is. Just because you're denying that doesn't mean I didn't do it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dadnir brings up a good point. Ritualists are usually channeling specific dead beings and using their skills. All the ash skills were historic figures. In my eye's ritualist and revenants use their magic by connecting to the mists/spirit realm, and yes they are connected. Dead spirits reside in different parts of the mists like the underworld or realm of torment, and other god realms. But yeah, both of these professions (rit and rev) act as a conduit between the mists and the physical world and draw power from it. Sure they act in different ways, like the revenant uses it to enhance its marshall capabilities and to basically use skills of very powerful beings. Revenants are also very new and aren't as well versed in their magic as other professions seeing as their hasn't been a long history of perfecting it. It's new and probably hard to use. Maybe since they are such rookies at using their magic they do not know how to form their own spells and skills with it, resulting in them just mimicking skills from the mists. But only those of legends that have left a large imprint and echo in the mists are easily aquirable or channeled. Like the radio frequency of those legends is higher quality and easier to tune into than some random joe shmo. Ritualists on the other hand are more well trained and have been perfecting their craft for centuries. They can channel lesser know spirits with a wider array of skills to draw from, and they can also harness mist magic more easily, such as in channeling and restoration magic. A revenant on the other hand might have a hard time controlling raw mist magic and making it do what they want.

Now for how I think necromancers compare. Well, they don't necessarily channel specific people and aren't about using much mist magic. They instead manipulate life force and create their own abominations out of corpses and spirits. Necromancer magic seems seperate than mist magic to me. They aren't channeling and drawing from the mists as inspiration and strength for their abilities, they possess they're own energy and magic within themselves. They can communicate with the spirit realm, so that is a point up for the necromancers. But to me it seems like necro makes its own life from death, wether that be from stealing health with blood magic or by creating abominations from corpses that do not have the original spirit in tact and is instead powered like flesh robot/construct with magic. But, i've never seen a necromancer channel or commune with spirits to do their bidding. The shade minion feels more like a creation than an already existing entity. Probably similar to how grenth/dhuum created shades within the underworld. Revenants currently don't possess the ability to essentially take spirits captive to do theyre bidding, but they do channel their magic which is more on point with ritualist than what necromancer is.

but all in all, both professions would be a good candidate. They could honestly take different parts of ritualist and split them between nec and rev's next elite specs. There's plenty of ritualist theme for the both of them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"ScottBroChill.3254" said:Dadnir brings up a good point. Ritualists are usually channeling specific dead beings and using their skills. All the ash skills were historic figures. In my eye's ritualist and revenants use their magic by connecting to the mists/spirit realm, and yes they are connected. Dead spirits reside in different parts of the mists like the underworld or realm of torment, and other god realms. But yeah, both of these professions (rit and rev) act as a conduit between the mists and the physical world and draw power from it. Sure they act in different ways, like the revenant uses it to enhance its marshall capabilities and to basically use skills of very powerful beings. Revenants are also very new and aren't as well versed in their magic as other professions seeing as their hasn't been a long history of perfecting it. It's new and probably hard to use. Maybe since they are such rookies at using their magic they do not know how to form their own spells and skills with it, resulting in them just mimicking skills from the mists. But only those of legends that have left a large imprint and echo in the mists are easily aquirable or channeled. Like the radio frequency of those legends is higher quality and easier to tune into than some random joe shmo. Ritualists on the other hand are more well trained and have been perfecting their craft for centuries. They can channel lesser know spirits with a wider array of skills to draw from, and they can also harness mist magic more easily, such as in channeling and restoration magic. A revenant on the other hand might have a hard time controlling raw mist magic and making it do what they want.

Now for how I think necromancers compare. Well, they don't necessarily channel specific people and aren't about using much mist magic. They instead manipulate life force and create their own abominations out of corpses and spirits. Necromancer magic seems seperate than mist magic to me. They aren't channeling and drawing from the mists as inspiration and strength for their abilities, they possess they're own energy and magic within themselves. They can communicate with the spirit realm, so that is a point up for the necromancers. But to me it seems like necro makes its own life from death, wether that be from stealing health with blood magic or by creating abominations from corpses that do not have the original spirit in tact and is instead powered like flesh robot/construct with magic. But, i've never seen a necromancer channel or commune with spirits to do their bidding. The shade minion feels more like a creation than an already existing entity. Probably similar to how grenth/dhuum created shades within the underworld. Revenants currently don't possess the ability to essentially take spirits captive to do theyre bidding, but they do channel their magic which is more on point with ritualist than what necromancer is.

but all in all, both professions would be a good candidate. They could honestly take different parts of ritualist and split them between nec and rev's next elite specs. There's plenty of ritualist theme for the both of them.

Since this argument wont die, I decided to Build a concept for the two specs. Not the entire thing because I don't have that kind of energy, but making it how I personally would like it. So, take a look. As for Lore. Our understanding of the Mists is different than it was 250 years ago. Back in GW1 the humans only saw it as the realm of the gods and the dead. Now we know its much much more. Which seems to be a mistake everyone else is making. Either way, take a look.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/100747/elite-spec-ritualist-for-both-necromancer-and-revenant#latest

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lily.1935 said:

@Lily.1935 said:Revenant wont get ritualist. Its not going to happen for them. You're going to have to get over that.

No one is more fiting for ritualist than revenant, in fact revenant's PvP title say it all:Source:

Win 150 rated arena games as a revenant.Sending my enemies to meet the legends.Title: Title icon.png Champion
Ritualist

Now, at the same time, since ANet don't create e-specs with the same name as the PvP title, it mean that there will not be any "ritualist" e-spec for any profession.

Why does it say "champion revered"?

There's something a little strange with the revenant PvP title. The achievement is called "champion revered", but the actual title unlocked by completing it is "champion ritualist".

@ScottBroChill.3254 said:Dadnir brings up a good point. Ritualists are usually channeling specific dead beings and using their skills. All the ash skills were historic figures. In my eye's ritualist and revenants use their magic by connecting to the mists/spirit realm, and yes they are connected. Dead spirits reside in different parts of the mists like the underworld or realm of torment, and other god realms. But yeah, both of these professions (rit and rev) act as a conduit between the mists and the physical world and draw power from it. Sure they act in different ways, like the revenant uses it to enhance its marshall capabilities and to basically use skills of very powerful beings. Revenants are also very new and aren't as well versed in their magic as other professions seeing as their hasn't been a long history of perfecting it. It's new and probably hard to use. Maybe since they are such rookies at using their magic they do not know how to form their own spells and skills with it, resulting in them just mimicking skills from the mists. But only those of legends that have left a large imprint and echo in the mists are easily aquirable or channeled. Like the radio frequency of those legends is higher quality and easier to tune into than some random joe shmo. Ritualists on the other hand are more well trained and have been perfecting their craft for centuries. They can channel lesser know spirits with a wider array of skills to draw from, and they can also harness mist magic more easily, such as in channeling and restoration magic. A revenant on the other hand might have a hard time controlling raw mist magic and making it do what they want.

Now for how I think necromancers compare. Well, they don't necessarily channel specific people and aren't about using much mist magic. They instead manipulate life force and create their own abominations out of corpses and spirits. Necromancer magic seems seperate than mist magic to me. They aren't channeling and drawing from the mists as inspiration and strength for their abilities, they possess they're own energy and magic within themselves. They can communicate with the spirit realm, so that is a point up for the necromancers. But to me it seems like necro makes its own life from death, wether that be from stealing health with blood magic or by creating abominations from corpses that do not have the original spirit in tact and is instead powered like flesh robot/construct with magic. But, i've never seen a necromancer channel or commune with spirits to do their bidding. The shade minion feels more like a creation than an already existing entity. Probably similar to how grenth/dhuum created shades within the underworld. Revenants currently don't possess the ability to essentially take spirits captive to do theyre bidding, but they do channel their magic which is more on point with ritualist than what necromancer is.

but all in all, both professions would be a good candidate. They could honestly take different parts of ritualist and split them between nec and rev's next elite specs. There's plenty of ritualist theme for the both of them.

I think there is also a distinction in that what the revenants channel does not need to be the actual spirit of the legend in question.

For instance, it's questionable whether Shiro's spirit even still exists. Underworld quests suggested that killing a spirit in the Underworld could be killing it permanently, so killing Shiro at the Gate of Madness possibly means his spirit is destroyed. Possibly more notably, when the revenant channels Joko to break out of the Sunspear Great Hall, this is channeling an echo of Joko himself breaking out of Balthazar's prison.

What I think is going on is that while ritualists do call on souls, revenant legends are mostly drawing power from fractals. There are probably fractals of the defeat of Shiro and Mallyx, of Glint's lair, of Jalis performing the Rite of the Great Dwarf, Ventari inscribing the Tablet (which is probably not a particularly violent fractal) and Kalla fighting against the Flame Legion - these are all events of similar or greater significance to fractals we've seen. It's possible that the revenant can also draw on the spirit directly when that spirit is available (example: Glint), but back in pre-release discussions of the revenant, we were pretty much told point blank that the revenant does not need to contact the actual soul of the original being that forged the legend in order to channel the legend, but often instead channels the echoes in the Mists left behind by that being's actions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

From my point of view: Revenant was clearly designed by ANet to be the spiritual successor to the Ritualist and I think it's just wilful ignorance to think otherwise. It might not be so mechanically but that's because it had to be a soldier profession to complete the 3x3x3. It is anyway clear as day that this is the case. Any relation between ritualists and other professions before revenant was announced/released is just a lay-over from the fact that ANet put bits and pieces from GW1 professions that didn't make it into GW2 as their "own-thing". Once revenant came about though it was clearly design to be ritualist's successor, it even got a terrible spirit summoning spec... You can look into all the lore and history as much as you want but it really isn't that deep...

I really wish someone from ANet could just come here and put a nail in the coffin of this debate and just tell the community what's what

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"NaiveBayes.2587" said:From my point of view: Revenant was clearly designed by ANet to be the spiritual successor to the Ritualist and I think it's just wilful ignorance to think otherwise. It might not be so mechanically but that's because it had to be a soldier profession to complete the 3x3x3. It is anyway clear as day that this is the case. Any relation between ritualists and other professions before revenant was announced/released is just a lay-over from the fact that ANet put bits and pieces from GW1 professions that didn't make it into GW2 as their "own-thing". Once revenant came about though it was clearly design to be ritualist's successor, it even got a terrible spirit summoning spec... You can look into all the lore and history as much as you want but it really isn't that deep...

I really wish someone from ANet could just come here and put a nail in the coffin of this debate and just tell the community what's what

The person who designed the class no longer works for Anet.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"NaiveBayes.2587" said:From my point of view: Revenant was clearly designed by ANet to be the spiritual successor to the Ritualist and I think it's just wilful ignorance to think otherwise. It might not be so mechanically but that's because it had to be a soldier profession to complete the 3x3x3. It is anyway clear as day that this is the case. Any relation between ritualists and other professions before revenant was announced/released is just a lay-over from the fact that ANet put bits and pieces from GW1 professions that didn't make it into GW2 as their "own-thing". Once revenant came about though it was clearly design to be ritualist's successor, it even got a terrible spirit summoning spec... You can look into all the lore and history as much as you want but it really isn't that deep...

I really wish someone from ANet could just come here and put a nail in the coffin of this debate and just tell the community what's what

A light armored revenant would be the best profession in the game with correct weapon/legend skills. I still dream about it sometimes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"NaiveBayes.2587" said:From my point of view: Revenant was clearly designed by ANet to be the spiritual successor to the Ritualist and I think it's just wilful ignorance to think otherwise. It might not be so mechanically but that's because it had to be a soldier profession to complete the 3x3x3. It is anyway clear as day that this is the case. Any relation between ritualists and other professions before revenant was announced/released is just a lay-over from the fact that ANet put bits and pieces from GW1 professions that didn't make it into GW2 as their "own-thing". Once revenant came about though it was clearly design to be ritualist's successor, it even got a terrible spirit summoning spec... You can look into all the lore and history as much as you want but it really isn't that deep...

I really wish someone from ANet could just come here and put a nail in the coffin of this debate and just tell the community what's what

Engineer is the spiritual successor to the Ritualist. In fact, the Ritualist existed at all because ArenaNet wanted to make an engineer, but they couldn't justify bringing that level of technology into Guild Wars 1, so they found a way to make a fantasy equivalent instead. From memory, they repeated this in GW2's development and said that they saw the Engineer as the successor to the Ritualist playstyle.

There were a lot of threads before the HoT announcement with people suggesting that since the Dervish apparently could not be made playable in GW2 (since it was seen as being too closely tied to the gods) and the Ritualist also would not be reused (since the Engineer was its replacement), that Ritualist lore could be used to make a 'spirit warrior' profession that mimicked dervish avatars in a religiously-neutral way by summoning spirits into their own bodies. And then the Revenant got announced.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I love revenant. Like, it's my martial class of choice. I like it a lot more than reaper. But you guys are trying desperately hard to make it something it's not. Revenant's mechanical design is nothing close to Ritualist. And we can argue till we're all blue in the face about how related the Shamanistic class, Ritualist, related to Revenant and necromancer. But this wont change how different the Revenant's mechanical design is from Ritualist.

Revenant's mechanical design and Ritualist's Mechanical design are like oil and water. They do not mesh well at all. You have one of the most martial profession in the game, more martial than Guardian and almost as martial as warrior. They're very geared towards melee with somewhat clunky ranged weapons. And Ritualist which was a backline heavy support profession with very little melee prowess. They did have Spirits strength but even with that they were kinda sitting ducks in melee with minimal protection.

The Ritualist is a ranged caster. What support for long range does the Revenant offer? Ventari Tablet? Hammer? That's not good enough. They need to have enough utility at long range to keep them in the correct position in combat.

The Revenant is a melee bruiser. What Support does the Ritualist offer them? Their spirit weapons maybe. But what people ask for is spirits not the spirit weapons. Which is anti synthetic with their martial playstyle. You could have a spec that channels for self and party buffs like the weapon spells. But then again a paragon legend would do the same and how would that be much different from Herald? How would spirits diversify itself from Renegade which I'd say is the worst designed elite spec in PoF that you guys argued was the ritualist even though it played nothing like the ritualist and was extremely clunky [removing the warband would make it soooooo much better]. But now that we got Cantha we're asking for another failed elite spec?

You guys are a trip. But I don't want to be double disappointed with revenant. Disappointed in another poorly designed shoehorned elite spec for a cool class and disappointed for the ritualist which would never get close to the Veteran players expectations.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lily.1935 said:I love revenant. Like, it's my martial class of choice. I like it a lot more than reaper. But you guys are trying desperately hard to make it something it's not. Revenant's mechanical design is nothing close to Ritualist. And we can argue till we're all blue in the face about how related the Shamanistic class, Ritualist, related to Revenant and necromancer. But this wont change how different the Revenant's mechanical design is from Ritualist.

Revenant's mechanical design and Ritualist's Mechanical design are like oil and water. They do not mesh well at all. You have one of the most martial profession in the game, more martial than Guardian and almost as martial as warrior. They're very geared towards melee with somewhat clunky ranged weapons. And Ritualist which was a backline heavy support profession with very little melee prowess. They did have Spirits strength but even with that they were kinda sitting ducks in melee with minimal protection.

The Ritualist is a ranged caster. What support for long range does the Revenant offer? Ventari Tablet? Hammer? That's not good enough. They need to have enough utility at long range to keep them in the correct position in combat.

The Revenant is a melee bruiser. What Support does the Ritualist offer them? Their spirit weapons maybe. But what people ask for is spirits not the spirit weapons. Which is anti synthetic with their martial playstyle. You could have a spec that channels for self and party buffs like the weapon spells. But then again a paragon legend would do the same and how would that be much different from Herald? How would spirits diversify itself from Renegade which I'd say is the worst designed elite spec in PoF that you guys argued was the ritualist even though it played nothing like the ritualist and was extremely clunky [removing the warband would make it soooooo much better]. But now that we got Cantha we're asking for another failed elite spec?

You guys are a trip. But I don't want to be double disappointed with revenant. Disappointed in another poorly designed shoehorned elite spec for a cool class and disappointed for the ritualist which would never get close to the Veteran players expectations.

At the moment yes, Rev favors melee especially that hammer is trash now. But Arena Net themselves explained the profession as Melee or Ranged and as Magic-Wielding Fighter, and that's why I'm not for greatsword and further limiting the professions gameplay.Instead I'm asking for Channeling Magic oriented specialization with possibly scepter and enhanced ranged gameplay, as Kalla already has spirits such as they are.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Elric.4713 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:I love revenant. Like, it's my martial class of choice. I like it a lot more than reaper. But you guys are trying desperately hard to make it something it's not. Revenant's mechanical design is nothing close to Ritualist. And we can argue till we're all blue in the face about how related the Shamanistic class, Ritualist, related to Revenant and necromancer. But this wont change how different the Revenant's mechanical design is from Ritualist.

Revenant's mechanical design and Ritualist's Mechanical design are like oil and water. They do not mesh well at all. You have one of the most martial profession in the game, more martial than Guardian and almost as martial as warrior. They're very geared towards melee with somewhat clunky ranged weapons. And Ritualist which was a backline heavy support profession with very little melee prowess. They did have Spirits strength but even with that they were kinda sitting ducks in melee with minimal protection.

The Ritualist is a ranged caster. What support for long range does the Revenant offer? Ventari Tablet? Hammer? That's not good enough. They need to have enough utility at long range to keep them in the correct position in combat.

The Revenant is a melee bruiser. What Support does the Ritualist offer them? Their spirit weapons maybe. But what people ask for is spirits not the spirit weapons. Which is anti synthetic with their martial playstyle. You could have a spec that channels for self and party buffs like the weapon spells. But then again a paragon legend would do the same and how would that be much different from Herald? How would spirits diversify itself from Renegade which I'd say is the worst designed elite spec in PoF that you guys argued was the ritualist even though it played nothing like the ritualist and was extremely clunky [removing the warband would make it soooooo much better]. But now that we got Cantha we're asking for another failed elite spec?

You guys are a trip. But I don't want to be double disappointed with revenant. Disappointed in another poorly designed shoehorned elite spec for a cool class and disappointed for the ritualist which would never get close to the Veteran players expectations.

At the moment yes, Rev favors melee especially that hammer is trash now. But Arena Net themselves explained the profession as
Melee or Ranged
and as
Magic-Wielding Fighter
, and that's why I'm not for greatsword and further limiting the professions gameplay.Instead I'm asking for Channeling Magic oriented specialization with possibly scepter and enhanced ranged gameplay, as Kalla already has spirits such as they are.

I'm not only talking about their weapon options, but the Utility options too. The ranged options on the revenant's utility bar are extremely limited with only really the Kalla kit that actually supports it. Mallyx having banish enchantment and Shiro having Impossible odds is about it when it comes to ranged moves you'd really want with a ranged build. You don't want to jump into combat like both do and Shiro does have a dodge back, which is helpful but its not designed for Melee. You can't just look at the revenant's Weapons and think "This is the only aspect of the class that suggests they're mostly a martial melee bruiser" but also their utility. And Revenant doesn't have the appropriate utility to function nearly as effectively at range. Warriors are much the same way. They're far better in melee and midline. Mesmers, Necromancers, Core engineer and Elementalists are extremely effective at ranged. And that's OKAY! Its perfectly reasonable that Revenant isn't best at range. But this does put a damper on them since You won't be able to use a second ranged elite spec with Kalla to fill in the gaps between them. Its just the inharrent flaw of their mechanical design in relationship to Ritualist.

Now, If you want to discuss revenant getting more skills for their legendary stances and general purpose utility skills I'm 110% on board with you! But until then, we have to look at the reality of the class and what it is now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Similar comments can be made for guardian. It's a property of the heavy armour class in general that you can play range with them, but they're really designed for getting stuck in.

Mind you, I don't think it's as bad as you imply. Ventari can be fairly stand-off, albeit as a stand-off support. Mallyx can blow his energy on spamming Banish Enchantment. Shiro can do the same with Impossible Odds, and while on a ranged weapon he's not likely to be teleporting into melee, Riposting Shadows is still useful for maintaining a gap.

At the bottom line, though, like guardian and warrior, it's an implicit assumption of playing revenant that you'll go into melee. Just a question of whether you have the option to hang back when needed or if you're fully committed to melee.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@draxynnic.3719 said:Similar comments can be made for guardian. It's a property of the heavy armour class in general that you can play range with them, but they're really designed for getting stuck in.

Mind you, I don't think it's as bad as you imply. Ventari can be fairly stand-off, albeit as a stand-off support. Mallyx can blow his energy on spamming Banish Enchantment. Shiro can do the same with Impossible Odds, and while on a ranged weapon he's not likely to be teleporting into melee, Riposting Shadows is still useful for maintaining a gap.

At the bottom line, though, like guardian and warrior, it's an implicit assumption of playing revenant that you'll go into melee. Just a question of whether you have the option to hang back when needed or if you're fully committed to melee.

You don't have very good options for a full commitment for range. Guardian I would argue does. And honestly, mechanically, Ritualist probably wouldn't be a terrible fit onto guardian. In terms of their lore? Not quite. All of the Light armored classes are extremely good in pure range. We can't say the same for all the melee classes. Which is okay.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Lily.1935 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:Similar comments can be made for guardian. It's a property of the heavy armour class in general that you
can
play range with them, but they're really designed for getting stuck in.

Mind you, I don't think it's as bad as you imply. Ventari can be fairly stand-off, albeit as a stand-off support. Mallyx can blow his energy on spamming Banish Enchantment. Shiro can do the same with Impossible Odds, and while on a ranged weapon he's not likely to be teleporting into melee, Riposting Shadows is still useful for maintaining a gap.

At the bottom line, though, like guardian and warrior, it's an implicit assumption of playing revenant that you'll go into melee. Just a question of whether you have the option to hang back when needed or if you're fully committed to melee.

You don't have very good options for a full commitment for range. Guardian I would argue does. And honestly, mechanically, Ritualist probably wouldn't be a terrible fit onto guardian. In terms of their lore? Not quite. All of the Light armored classes are extremely good in pure range. We can't say the same for all the melee classes. Which is okay.

Sure, guardian can go staff/scepter (or longbow for one of those if DH) and pick utilities oriented towards supporting a ranged group. So can warrior, technically, except the weapons are longbow and rifle. Similar principle - the professions can go ranged, but they're not really designed to.

Conversely, scholars when originally designed had mostly ranged options and a token melee (or melee-like) option, although the realities of the game mean that they often tend to end up going melee anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@"draxynnic.3719" said:

And the point that it would be nice to see legends of the norn - a race whose entire culture is based around the concept of legend - is a valid one.Who would that be? Jora, I consider to be no better than Togo - AFAIK, everything we know about her deeds are things she did along with the GW1 PC. If you can take a potential legend and ask "why isn't the GW1 PC the legend instead", then I'm inclined to think you're not being ambitious enough with your choice. Svanir is, honestly, borderline - from the perspective of the norn, he was one scary monster among many in their history, the only reason I'd even consider him is because he inspired the Sons of Svanir. Asgeir is, I think, probably the strongest candidate that we know about.

*Popping out of the shadows to mention my favourite Norn legend candidate, Owl, again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...