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The Tank and why it's dumb/misleading


Nick.5276

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Spam 3 SPAM 3!!!!!!!!! SPAM IT YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!! SPAM THE HARPOON!!!!!

Lets look at this skill shall we?

When you use it the skill goes on a 20 second cool down timer, it shows it on the tool display, 20 seconds. Every aspect of GW2 has taught me that any skill showing a timer countdown is disabled until the timer finishes.Except this one.
For those of you who are not aware yet, when the harpoon goes to this 20 second timer you CAN spam it, unlike any other skill I've encountered.This is what you are supposed to do. Each time you spam the skill it resets to 20 seconds until you can't use it.

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The harpoon is a multi-sequence skill. The first use throws it, then after it hits, it changes to a pull on a 1/4s cooldown. There are many skills that can change like this.

For best results, you want to simply hold down the button, which causes the skill to be used immediately when it's ready.

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@Nick.5276 said:Spam 3 SPAM 3!!!!!!!!! SPAM IT YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!! SPAM THE HARPOON!!!!!

Lets look at this skill shall we?

When you use it the skill goes on a 20 second cool down timer, it shows it on the tool display, 20 seconds. Every aspect of GW2 has taught me that any skill showing a timer countdown is disabled until the timer finishes.Except this one.

For those of you who are not aware yet, when the harpoon goes to this 20 second timer you CAN spam it, unlike any other skill I've encountered.This is what you are supposed to do. Each time you spam the skill it resets to 20 seconds until you can't use it.

That is incorrect. The skill fires, then IF it connects with a target, the icon will switch to the harpoons second function: the pull.

If it does not connect OR the timer expires on the second ability, the skill goes on cooldown. Which means, at the Forgeman boss it is wise to wait a second for the tank to get in position, then use the skill on the bosses during the cc phase.

Also, unlike popular opinion, there is no need to spam the skill. Press it 1nce to fire, then once it has connected, keep the button pressed to get the maximum pull/cc effect.

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People will eventually learn all of the mechanics for the tank, but right now people can drop into the public instance at various stages and be split doing several different activities around the starting camp when the tutorials are happening. I'm not surprised people are confused by the tank when the environment is that chaotic. It took me half the instance before I realized what the ammo boxes on the ground were for, let alone that the harpoon was something I could use and not just something NPCs were yelling to each other.

Exhibit patience, educate people in your instance, and the rest will sort itself out over time. You're a warband; act like one.

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Earlier this morning I was in a public version of Forging Steel, and when we got to the Forgeman, only a couple of us would reliably get in the tank for the breakbar phase. We kept pleading with the other players to please get in the tank during the vent countdown and help with the harpoon, but time and time again they would just stand there auto-attacking the forgeman. As you know if you don't break the bar, the fight takes a very long time. Eventually me and the other person getting frustrated by our fellow players eventually bailed. They never talked back to us or indicated confusion, they just auto-attacked and ignored the tank/harpoon mechanics. Someone suggested they might be bots doing farming? Not sure if that's true, but it made me wonder if this mission should have some kind of tiering of rewards aimed at making it more rewarding to be a team player. If the bots who ignored the tank got lesser rewards maybe it would discourage them? I know as a player trying to play the mechanics as intended it surely was frustrating to never break that bar due to lack of participation.

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@Orion Templar.4589 said:Earlier this morning I was in a public version of Forging Steel, and when we got to the Forgeman, only a couple of us would reliably get in the tank for the breakbar phase. We kept pleading with the other players to please get in the tank during the vent countdown and help with the harpoon, but time and time again they would just stand there auto-attacking the forgeman. As you know if you don't break the bar, the fight takes a very long time. Eventually me and the other person getting frustrated by our fellow players eventually bailed. They never talked back to us or indicated confusion, they just auto-attacked and ignored the tank/harpoon mechanics. Someone suggested they might be bots doing farming? Not sure if that's true, but it made me wonder if this mission should have some kind of tiering of rewards aimed at making it more rewarding to be a team player. If the bots who ignored the tank got lesser rewards maybe it would discourage them? I know as a player trying to play the mechanics as intended it surely was frustrating to never break that bar due to lack of participation.

That other person was prolly me lol. I kept telling people in map chat and in /s to get in the tank and press 3 to break the break bar. And one of the ignoring people was someone in my guild smh. I whispered him and asked if he was a bot but he never responded back and kept auto attacking the boss. He eventually died to the rush of mobs and logged out.

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@Nick.5276 said:I still think it's dumb and misleading so /thburrrrrrrrrrrrt!

It is NOT the first skill to work like that in this game, there are other instances where you have the same type of action...a single skill that does multiple functions, the only difference between this one and those other is you hold it down.

@Orion Templar.4589 said:Earlier this morning I was in a public version of Forging Steel, and when we got to the Forgeman, only a couple of us would reliably get in the tank for the breakbar phase. We kept pleading with the other players to please get in the tank during the vent countdown and help with the harpoon, but time and time again they would just stand there auto-attacking the forgeman. As you know if you don't break the bar, the fight takes a very long time. Eventually me and the other person getting frustrated by our fellow players eventually bailed. They never talked back to us or indicated confusion, they just auto-attacked and ignored the tank/harpoon mechanics. Someone suggested they might be bots doing farming? Not sure if that's true, but it made me wonder if this mission should have some kind of tiering of rewards aimed at making it more rewarding to be a team player. If the bots who ignored the tank got lesser rewards maybe it would discourage them? I know as a player trying to play the mechanics as intended it surely was frustrating to never break that bar due to lack of participation.

The tank is not the only thing players can do in that Boss fight, there's also gathering the scrap and ammo to repair/arm the tank, destroy the portals and using the vents to raise the blast shields(which the one time I did it I didn't see anyone using) and killing the spawns. I don't think you need everyone piling on the tank for it to work properly, I mean it is supposed to be everyone doing a different part of the battle, not all doing one thing.

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Sounds like most of my groups in public they dont listen and dont respond no matter how nicely you ask or how frustrated you get with them part of me thinks they are just farming kills and stone cannons for acheivment.It sucks because the event ends up taking around 20 minutes or so if its not done properly and if it is done right it can be killed in two breaks with an organised group.

It would be nice if the skill had a faster reuse time so we could get a second use off but its unlikely we will see that happen so I suppose we just have to wait till players learn or get done farming achievements.

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@Orion Templar.4589 said:Earlier this morning I was in a public version of Forging Steel, and when we got to the Forgeman, only a couple of us would reliably get in the tank for the breakbar phase. We kept pleading with the other players to please get in the tank during the vent countdown and help with the harpoon, but time and time again they would just stand there auto-attacking the forgeman. As you know if you don't break the bar, the fight takes a very long time. Eventually me and the other person getting frustrated by our fellow players eventually bailed. They never talked back to us or indicated confusion, they just auto-attacked and ignored the tank/harpoon mechanics. Someone suggested they might be bots doing farming? Not sure if that's true, but it made me wonder if this mission should have some kind of tiering of rewards aimed at making it more rewarding to be a team player. If the bots who ignored the tank got lesser rewards maybe it would discourage them? I know as a player trying to play the mechanics as intended it surely was frustrating to never break that bar due to lack of participation.

There's various reasons for it - some people turn off chat, but more commonly (esp in the EU I suspect) it is a language barrier thing. The important thing is that it doesn't hinge on players working together, but it does benefit from it. Which is a good approach to the design of these things

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@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Nick.5276 said:I still think it's dumb and misleading so /thburrrrrrrrrrrrt!

It is NOT the first skill to work like that in this game, there are other instances where you have the same type of action...a single skill that does multiple functions, the only difference between this one and those other is you hold it down.

@Orion Templar.4589 said:Earlier this morning I was in a public version of Forging Steel, and when we got to the Forgeman, only a couple of us would reliably get in the tank for the breakbar phase. We kept pleading with the other players to please get in the tank during the vent countdown and help with the harpoon, but time and time again they would just stand there auto-attacking the forgeman. As you know if you don't break the bar, the fight takes a
very
long time. Eventually me and the other person getting frustrated by our fellow players eventually bailed. They never talked back to us or indicated confusion, they just auto-attacked and ignored the tank/harpoon mechanics. Someone suggested they might be bots doing farming? Not sure if that's true, but it made me wonder if this mission should have some kind of tiering of rewards aimed at making it more rewarding to be a team player. If the bots who ignored the tank got lesser rewards maybe it would discourage them? I know as a player trying to play the mechanics as intended it surely was frustrating to never break that bar due to lack of participation.

The tank is not the only thing players can do in that Boss fight, there's also gathering the scrap and ammo to repair/arm the tank, destroy the portals and using the vents to raise the blast shields(which the one time I did it I didn't see anyone using) and killing the spawns. I don't think you need everyone piling on the tank for it to work properly, I mean it is supposed to be everyone doing a different part of the battle, not all doing one thing.

You can gather ammo, scraps, kills mobs, shoot off the cannons before and after the break bar appears. I don't know about anyone else but I do not want to fight that boss for over an hour cuz people do not get in the tank during the break bar phase and press 3 to harpoon it. The entire first part of the instance teaches players the mechanics of the fight. That's why people are frustrated when people do not listen or understand the fight and prolong the boss fight.

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tldr: I think they should look at the coding for mounts/ vehicles. Half the buttons for the tank don't work & you have to manually click the action bar. I've noticed same goes for warkitty. For some reason when you keybind, mounting up doesn't override the binds you made to your character and you're left with skills not working. :( It should be a basic overlay skill use so they don't interact with each other. Mounted/ vehicle skills are primary and when not mounted the character binds become primary. something like that.

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@Orion Templar.4589 said:Earlier this morning I was in a public version of Forging Steel, and when we got to the Forgeman, only a couple of us would reliably get in the tank for the breakbar phase. We kept pleading with the other players to please get in the tank during the vent countdown and help with the harpoon, but time and time again they would just stand there auto-attacking the forgeman. As you know if you don't break the bar, the fight takes a very long time. Eventually me and the other person getting frustrated by our fellow players eventually bailed. They never talked back to us or indicated confusion, they just auto-attacked and ignored the tank/harpoon mechanics. Someone suggested they might be bots doing farming? Not sure if that's true, but it made me wonder if this mission should have some kind of tiering of rewards aimed at making it more rewarding to be a team player. If the bots who ignored the tank got lesser rewards maybe it would discourage them? I know as a player trying to play the mechanics as intended it surely was frustrating to never break that bar due to lack of participation.

hmm, i had a similar experience last night. People were very, very quiet in the public instance it seemed. It was a weird experience from the non stop map chat talk i'm use to. For a while i thought no one could see my texts, like i was censored or something, but nopes peeps just didn't speak until they too finally got bored with the slow, long fight at forgeman. I mean it was 3 days since launch of this maybe most of the over achievers already ran through it and all us casuals that didn't know the mechanics were left? But i don't know about that, some seemed to know what to do but they wouldn't fill it in for the rest of us. Bots? maybe.

Personally, the whole char tanks experience from start to finish seemed extremely slow. This was a strike mission? It seemed more like a long, forced, slow escort march. I would have much preferred an open world & regular meta map. I really enjoy the exploration experience of maps on my own time, but couldn't really do that here with having to be within a certain distance of the tank for cheevos at a certain time. I don't think i'll be going back to this.

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@fill.3106 said:

@Nick.5276 said:I still think it's dumb and misleading so /thburrrrrrrrrrrrt!

It is NOT the first skill to work like that in this game, there are other instances where you have the same type of action...a single skill that does multiple functions, the only difference between this one and those other is you hold it down.

@Orion Templar.4589 said:Earlier this morning I was in a public version of Forging Steel, and when we got to the Forgeman, only a couple of us would reliably get in the tank for the breakbar phase. We kept pleading with the other players to please get in the tank during the vent countdown and help with the harpoon, but time and time again they would just stand there auto-attacking the forgeman. As you know if you don't break the bar, the fight takes a
very
long time. Eventually me and the other person getting frustrated by our fellow players eventually bailed. They never talked back to us or indicated confusion, they just auto-attacked and ignored the tank/harpoon mechanics. Someone suggested they might be bots doing farming? Not sure if that's true, but it made me wonder if this mission should have some kind of tiering of rewards aimed at making it more rewarding to be a team player. If the bots who ignored the tank got lesser rewards maybe it would discourage them? I know as a player trying to play the mechanics as intended it surely was frustrating to never break that bar due to lack of participation.

The tank is not the only thing players can do in that Boss fight, there's also gathering the scrap and ammo to repair/arm the tank, destroy the portals and using the vents to raise the blast shields(which the one time I did it I didn't see anyone using) and killing the spawns. I don't think you need everyone piling on the tank for it to work properly, I mean it is supposed to be everyone doing a different part of the battle, not all doing one thing.

You can gather ammo, scraps, kills mobs, shoot off the cannons before and after the break bar appears. I don't know about anyone else but I do not want to fight that boss for over an hour cuz people do not get in the tank during the break bar phase and press 3 to harpoon it. The entire first part of the instance teaches players the mechanics of the fight. That's why people are frustrated when people do not listen or understand the fight and prolong the boss fight.

An hour to fight the Forgeman, I think the instance I was in only 1 or 2 people got in the tank and it didn't take anywhere close to an hour, at the most 10 - 15 minutes, something is really wrong if it takes an hour or more to take the Forgeman down.

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@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Nick.5276 said:I still think it's dumb and misleading so /thburrrrrrrrrrrrt!

It is NOT the first skill to work like that in this game, there are other instances where you have the same type of action...a single skill that does multiple functions, the only difference between this one and those other is you hold it down.

@Orion Templar.4589 said:Earlier this morning I was in a public version of Forging Steel, and when we got to the Forgeman, only a couple of us would reliably get in the tank for the breakbar phase. We kept pleading with the other players to please get in the tank during the vent countdown and help with the harpoon, but time and time again they would just stand there auto-attacking the forgeman. As you know if you don't break the bar, the fight takes a
very
long time. Eventually me and the other person getting frustrated by our fellow players eventually bailed. They never talked back to us or indicated confusion, they just auto-attacked and ignored the tank/harpoon mechanics. Someone suggested they might be bots doing farming? Not sure if that's true, but it made me wonder if this mission should have some kind of tiering of rewards aimed at making it more rewarding to be a team player. If the bots who ignored the tank got lesser rewards maybe it would discourage them? I know as a player trying to play the mechanics as intended it surely was frustrating to never break that bar due to lack of participation.

The tank is not the only thing players can do in that Boss fight, there's also gathering the scrap and ammo to repair/arm the tank, destroy the portals and using the vents to raise the blast shields(which the one time I did it I didn't see anyone using) and killing the spawns. I don't think you need everyone piling on the tank for it to work properly, I mean it is supposed to be everyone doing a different part of the battle, not all doing one thing.

You can gather ammo, scraps, kills mobs, shoot off the cannons before and after the break bar appears. I don't know about anyone else but I do not want to fight that boss for over an hour cuz people do not get in the tank during the break bar phase and press 3 to harpoon it. The entire first part of the instance teaches players the mechanics of the fight. That's why people are frustrated when people do not listen or understand the fight and prolong the boss fight.

An hour to fight the Forgeman, I think the instance I was in only 1 or 2 people got in the tank and it didn't take anywhere close to an hour, at the most 10 - 15 minutes, something is really wrong if it takes an hour or more to take the Forgeman down.

if you have 10 people in the map, 1-2 people will not break the break bar using the harpoon which means it will not take 10-15 mins with a full public squad. And yes something is wrong when it takes over an hour, I appreciate that viewpoint.

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@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Nick.5276 said:I still think it's dumb and misleading so /thburrrrrrrrrrrrt!

It is NOT the first skill to work like that in this game, there are other instances where you have the same type of action...a single skill that does multiple functions, the only difference between this one and those other is you hold it down.

@Orion Templar.4589 said:Earlier this morning I was in a public version of Forging Steel, and when we got to the Forgeman, only a couple of us would reliably get in the tank for the breakbar phase. We kept pleading with the other players to please get in the tank during the vent countdown and help with the harpoon, but time and time again they would just stand there auto-attacking the forgeman. As you know if you don't break the bar, the fight takes a
very
long time. Eventually me and the other person getting frustrated by our fellow players eventually bailed. They never talked back to us or indicated confusion, they just auto-attacked and ignored the tank/harpoon mechanics. Someone suggested they might be bots doing farming? Not sure if that's true, but it made me wonder if this mission should have some kind of tiering of rewards aimed at making it more rewarding to be a team player. If the bots who ignored the tank got lesser rewards maybe it would discourage them? I know as a player trying to play the mechanics as intended it surely was frustrating to never break that bar due to lack of participation.

The tank is not the only thing players can do in that Boss fight, there's also gathering the scrap and ammo to repair/arm the tank, destroy the portals and using the vents to raise the blast shields(which the one time I did it I didn't see anyone using) and killing the spawns. I don't think you need everyone piling on the tank for it to work properly, I mean it is supposed to be everyone doing a different part of the battle, not all doing one thing.

You can gather ammo, scraps, kills mobs, shoot off the cannons before and after the break bar appears. I don't know about anyone else but I do not want to fight that boss for over an hour cuz people do not get in the tank during the break bar phase and press 3 to harpoon it. The entire first part of the instance teaches players the mechanics of the fight. That's why people are frustrated when people do not listen or understand the fight and prolong the boss fight.

An hour to fight the Forgeman, I think the instance I was in only 1 or 2 people got in the tank and it didn't take anywhere close to an hour, at the most 10 - 15 minutes, something is really wrong if it takes an hour or more to take the Forgeman down.

it took my second group 30 minutes alone to fight the Forgeman, no motes. But 7 of us had no idea what to do with the tank. I turn my UI off in combat, so i dont see the UI timer so i had no clue what to do.

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@Blocki.4931 said:I think the fact it's a harpoon and that we get taught how the skill works right at the start of the mission should have made it very obvious.

Not obvious enough considering my last 2 runs. ANet needs to add big red flashing lights and maximum font, increase dB by 9000 on the NPC voice lines that literally tell you how to do the fight as it happens.

Then maybe, JUST MAYBE we can get a single harpoon break bar off. And on that day... pigs will be a flyin.

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@Randulf.7614 said:

@"Orion Templar.4589" said:Earlier this morning I was in a public version of Forging Steel, and when we got to the Forgeman, only a couple of us would reliably get in the tank for the breakbar phase. We kept pleading with the other players to please get in the tank during the vent countdown and help with the harpoon, but time and time again they would just stand there auto-attacking the forgeman. As you know if you don't break the bar, the fight takes a
very
long time. Eventually me and the other person getting frustrated by our fellow players eventually bailed. They never talked back to us or indicated confusion, they just auto-attacked and ignored the tank/harpoon mechanics. Someone suggested they might be bots doing farming? Not sure if that's true, but it made me wonder if this mission should have some kind of tiering of rewards aimed at making it more rewarding to be a team player. If the bots who ignored the tank got lesser rewards maybe it would discourage them? I know as a player trying to play the mechanics as intended it surely was frustrating to never break that bar due to lack of participation.

There's various reasons for it - some people turn off chat, but more commonly (esp in the EU I suspect) it is a language barrier thing. The important thing is that it doesn't hinge on players working together, but it does benefit from it. Which is a good approach to the design of these things

Harpoon, french: Harpon. Easy to understand; in german it seems to be Harpune. I think it's due to AFKers and peeps turning off chat. Just did one 10 mins ago, I just said in map chat when heat vent is up "Prepare to harpoon when tank go back to middle". As a french, if I had 0 knowledge in english I still understand "Harpoon, Tank" and eventually "middle".On our group of 10, 6 successfully went in tank and did harpoon perfectly. 4 was still away killing foes and gathering ammos/repair.

A issue I see is whatever you do fast completion time trial or not, in public instance, you have no additional rewards for doing so. Believe me; put a bonus of 50 silvers or several crystal shards and an increased chance of dropping stone summit armors if fast completed and will have more players doing it correctly.

If I were Anet, I would have put the boss health bar as a world boss bar, always shown at top. That way the buffs, health and cc bar can be checked all the the time.

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There's a tutorial for how to use the tank right at the start. For public que, it will be a hit or miss. A timer will appear, they're usually players calling it out and Ryland(NPC) calling "Recruits! Bring it down with the harpoons!" every time. The fight is well designed, similar to open world; but with players limit. Tutorials and instructions from NPC is provided for the entire process :smile:.

PS : The final boss Ancient Forgeman can be done without the harpoon, just takes way longer.

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