Sylent.3165 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 I see EVERY other class doing mass hate against scourge because they do too much damage????I don't get get it all. Sure the scourge has decent damage but why do all these complainers complain and complain and complain until they get nerfed?Scourge has ONE major offense indicated by a big red circle on the ground. When you stand in the circle you deserve to die.Scourge and necro in general has bad healing skills, the barriers are knocked out instantly in one hit, they have no stability except from one skill. They lost the second health bar which was really the only defense, they can dodge roll and that's about it no leaps or mobility in a fight yet everyone wants them nerfed???I just don't understand how bad of a player you can be to just stand in a red circle and complain a class is op. The worst thing to is I bet all the nerfs become global and not just in wvw and will make this class just horrible in PvE.People need to just stop complaining and learn to dodge or use a ranged weapon already
Kaizen.3804 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 I can't speak for the rest of the game but I've been doing a lot of WvW lately, and Scourges pretty much ARE the current meta. I just watched an enemy blob, stacking like 50% scourges, melt our own blob like candle wax. It's the sheer amount of condition output in tandem with tanky armor like Trailblazer's and Dire armor. These in conjunction with Scourge have pretty much exacerbated the condi meta . Idk about PvP, but it's kind of ruining WvW. From what I've see, whoever can stack the most Scourges, wins.
Lahmia.2193 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 Also because currently Scourge is the highest dps vs smaller targets in raids. 38k according to qt.
ElderNewt.5840 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 Well one of our skills which gives out more condition damage then its meant to is a bug which is being fixed.. but its a bug scourges also need in pve so ...yer but its also people dont like necros having too much damage but are happy for deadeyes, guard etc having a butt ton.
Jephery.8915 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 Changing shade stacking won't actually nerf Scourge in WvW though, right? Scourge runs Sand Savant and they aren't in the enemy zerg, so shades aren't stacking.Its just F1->F2-F5 with a full LF bar, from multiple scourges. The nerf for WvW and sPvP would be to put a shared cd and/or cast time on the shade skills so you can't bomb with them without counter play.
SrebX.6498 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 @"Keitaro Dragonheart.9047" said:I can't speak for the rest of the game but I've been doing a lot of WvW lately, and Scourges pretty much ARE the current meta. I just watched an enemy blob, stacking like 50% scourges, melt our own blob like candle wax. It's the sheer amount of condition output in tandem with tanky armor like Trailblazer's and Dire armor. These in conjunction with Scourge have pretty much exacerbated the condi meta . Idk about PvP, but it's kind of ruining WvW. From what I've see, whoever can stack the most Scourges, wins.As much as I agree (And I am primarily a WvW player), you have to understand that balance in PvE/PvP in light years away from trying to balance fights where there's potentially 50+ participatesNecro doesn't have mobility, he lost his defense, the DPS is great but it does take quite a long ramp time, and the battlefield control you have is very balanced and limited, and very justified (since, again, no mobility or defense) imo (ESPECIALLY since you can't actaully maintain 3 shades).Now, as a WvW player, the statement "Battlefield control is balanced and limited" sounds ridiculous to you, but that's because you're facing 20+ Scourges at once.I'm actually very much in the belief that the OP is right. If I'd nerf anything is that Elite that allows burn on Torment, just because the sheer potential of devastation it has, but even that I wouldn't nerf too hard. Lets let Necro be powerful for a while, since it's not very good at anything besides Damaging (You might call barrier support, but it's ONE aspect of support which he's good at)
Kam.4092 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 I'd be fine with nerfing Shade stacking if they buff us in other ways, like removing the ICD on Demonic Lore. We need better DPS on movement fights. Being crippled unless it's a stationary fight is lame. Also other builds will be nerfed like Firebrand.
Brighteluden.2974 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 I was messing around with scourge in WvW and I just didn't really see the OP side of things. I mean sure the only time I actually did a good amount of damage was along choke points when the blobs would engage us but aside from that it wasn't exactly easy to have enemies stick inside my shades when they were constantly moving away from them and not to mention I also went down so many times due to classes poking me from a distance from ex. rangers, deadeyes etc.
Murdock.6547 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 @Kam.4092 said:I'd be fine with nerfing Shade stacking if they buff us in other ways, like removing the ICD on Demonic Lore. We need better DPS on movement fights. Being crippled unless it's a stationary fight is lame. Scepter 3 would inflict 7 burn. Torch 4 would inflict 6.So with two skills youd put out 13 burn.Even stacking shades, it at least costs life force. This you GAIN lf and still instagib people.
mazut.4296 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 @Murdock.6547 said:@Kam.4092 said:I'd be fine with nerfing Shade stacking if they buff us in other ways, like removing the ICD on Demonic Lore. We need better DPS on movement fights. Being crippled unless it's a stationary fight is lame. Scepter 3 would inflict 7 burn. Torch 4 would inflict 6.So with two skills youd put out 13 burn.Even stacking shades, it at least costs life force. This you GAIN lf and still instagib people.No. Scepter 3 will inflict 1 burn, but if you activate few skills that inflict torment one after another(no matter how many stack of torment) all will inflict burning. Same as how Reaper can stack bleeding with chills without ICD.However, Desert Shroud will inflict burns with every pulse.
Justine.6351 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 The sand shades don't do anything unless necro uses a shroud skill. If players are expected to guess dodge a sand shade everytime they see one, because they have zero indication that the scourge will instant cast a bunch of stuff on their head, well let's just say in wvw it explains why when I join a pug zerg of 46 that 13 were scourge and 3 were reapers.
ElderNewt.5840 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 @Justine.6351 said:The sand shades don't do anything unless necro uses a shroud skill. If players are expected to guess dodge a sand shade everytime they see one, because they have zero indication that the scourge will instant cast a bunch of stuff on their head, well let's just say in wvw it explains why when I join a pug zerg of 46 that 13 were scourge and 3 were reapers.But the same can be said about any class with instant skills.
SrebX.6498 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 @Brighteluden.2974 said:I was messing around with scourge in WvW and I just didn't really see the OP side of things. I mean sure the only time I actually did a good amount of damage was along choke points when the blobs would engage us but aside from that it wasn't exactly easy to have enemies stick inside my shades when they were constantly moving away from them and not to mention I also went down so many times due to classes poking me from a distance from ex. rangers, deadeyes etc. It's not about you running a Scourge that's OP, it's about Battlefield control and how the amount of battlefield control you've got multiplies with how many Scourges you've gotA zerg that has 20+ Scourges can control pretty much the whole battlefield, stacking SO many conditions and corrupting SO many boons, and you wouldnt have where to run to
Zero.3871 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 Last reset we had a zerg with 50% scourge and maybe 6 guardians, and we get destroyed by enemy zerg because couldnt cast any skill because of perm stuns... so scourge has poblems too. you just need to use this weeak points instead of brainless yolo pushing everything...Problem is just all the try hard kiddies in this game know the time before hot, when necros were freebaggy for all and they wish this time back because this skillless player cannot accept that they cannot anymore just yolo pushing necros and perma stun to win EZ.-today i saw again a thief (perma invis, perma dodging jumped for minutes between 15 people and cannot get killed because porting permanently through the area.-warrior bubbles OP too.-mesmers -> one shoot shatters all the time (look YT vids)-firebrand, holosmith increadible dmg output.soooooo many OP classes, but if everything is OP, nothing is really OP. finally its skill, wether you win or not...but try hard kiddies looses all the time, so they cry: class X is OP, or skill Y is OP. because they cannot accept that they are skillless.but lets wait for balance patch. they "just" want split barrier support while massive dmg. hopefully they taking away some barrier and give us some stability for that.
Kumouta.4985 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 Idk if wvw should count towards saying something's op.You can have 50 elementalists too, for more radius and still great damage.The brainless enemies walking into a ball of scourges isn't something we deserve to get nerfed for.Just get out of the shade and do stuns or use ranged attacks. The counter to scourges is having a brain, and no class is balanced on stacking, so we shouldn't be balanced on stacking either. Otherwise we become garbage compared to every other class and the playerbase will shrink a little.
vicious.5683 Posted October 9, 2017 Posted October 9, 2017 @Sylent.3165 said:When you stand in the circle you deserve to die.This. So much this.
Justine.6351 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 @HardRider.2980 said:@Justine.6351 said:The sand shades don't do anything unless necro uses a shroud skill. If players are expected to guess dodge a sand shade everytime they see one, because they have zero indication that the scourge will instant cast a bunch of stuff on their head, well let's just say in wvw it explains why when I join a pug zerg of 46 that 13 were scourge and 3 were reapers.But the same can be said about any class with instant skills.No profession can do what scourge can do with its instant cast stuff.
Lionwait.4815 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 It is funny when I see people say they tried out something and they think they are a master at it. This is why socialism doesn't work. Listen to the masters. Its over powered. I would give lots of feedback for this statement but I have reached my limit of dealings of the ignorance of people for today.
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Plebs are used to any form of necro being subpar so a whinge was on the cards. Necrolife.
Blood Red Arachnid.2493 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 From a PVE standpoint, I want nerfs for Renegade, Scourge, Weaver, Firebrand, and Soul Beast because I don't like power creep. It's nothing personal, but it is pretty bad idea to render all previous professions useless and all prior PVE content faceroll.
Zenith.7301 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 @Keitaro Dragonheart.9047 said:I can't speak for the rest of the game but I've been doing a lot of WvW lately, and Scourges pretty much ARE the current meta. I just watched an enemy blob, stacking like 50% scourges, melt our own blob like candle wax. It's the sheer amount of condition output in tandem with tanky armor like Trailblazer's and Dire armor. These in conjunction with Scourge have pretty much exacerbated the condi meta . Idk about PvP, but it's kind of ruining WvW. From what I've see, whoever can stack the most Scourges, wins.That's more an issue with condi than with scourge.@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:From a PVE standpoint, I want nerfs for Renegade, Scourge, Weaver, Firebrand, and Soul Beast because I don't like power creep. It's nothing personal, but it is pretty bad idea to render all previous professions useless and all prior PVE content faceroll. I hope they won't nerf them equally.Scourge damage is basically all shades. The core necro condi output is pathetic, the amp to it is desert shroud with shades proccing burning.Said shades are entirely immobile and small radius, unlike the others you listed who except for soulbeast have entirely mobile damage output, and in burst to boot since condi rev and firebrand frontload conditions a lot better than scourge does.Necro condi application has hideous ramp up by comparison, and unlike those two it offers no utility.Ranger is hindered by traps like scourge shades, but trap radius is a lot bigger and the traps themselves are a significantly smaller portion of their damage compared to scourge shades.If scourge cannot stand out among the dps for its stationary nature and micromanagement of shades, then it will fall into disrepair like condi engineer, where it's more work for the same yield which in practice produces inferior results.
Galmac.4680 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 So, a blob of 20 scrouges to too dangerous, it has to be nerfed, but a blob of 20 invulnerable warriors but more blocks and a second invulnerability is ok? hmmmm
VictoriaCross.3205 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Scourge isnt the Top-DPS in smallhitbox. IF u ever read carefully qtfy or LN Griever FB is can pull ++ 39k, so FB is clear winner here plus we do 39k with griever after nerf, i bet scourge loose its dps near 36-37k mark.
Ryouzanpaku.1273 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 Maybe it is time to stop staying in the blob when there is 20 circles under you?But but but it would require using a brain! Easier to whine nerf!
Dadnir.5038 Posted October 10, 2017 Posted October 10, 2017 @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:From a PVE standpoint, I want nerfs for Renegade, Scourge, Weaver, Firebrand, and Soul Beast because I don't like power creep. It's nothing personal, but it is pretty bad idea to render all previous professions useless and all prior PVE content faceroll. You mean that you are ok with the mandatory Druid, PS warrior and chronomancer but not ok with other profession having something worse being taken in raids? I agree that all of those have great dps potential but they are not mandatory. What they need is not nerf per se. What they need is to dish out damage that are balanced between each other in such a way that none become mandatory but all are equal.
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