Twice as Vicious: The Return of Longbow #4

[Diak Atoli.2085]

Lately, I've been having fun in open world PvE on A Longbow Soulbeast. With MS/BM/SB, I've been able to hit 20k Rapid Fires, thanks in small part to the trait Twice as Vicious.

With that in mind, I must apologize to those I annoy... But I can not be stopped! :p

As a point of discussion for the Rangers: Would you prefer a knockdown vs the current knockback?

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

Run double LBs with Sigils of Frenzy, Lead the Wind and Quick Draw for absurd amounts of RF ;)http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATTnUqAtCilsAWsActgl8AL/9Wf7vMHsC2JYJAUAWbl495A-jhBFQBpRXQLvEAIZ/R5HAeCAXRJYhU/JAACwNvZ28mBu5Nv5Nv5N7628m38m38m38m38mlBQfMA-e

[Mic.1897]

Just as a heads up, Vicious Quarry outdamages Quick Draw in power builds, and Axe/Warhorn outdamages Longbow as a ranged option with Vicious Quarry.

Try it out!

You can still feel Sword/Axe dominate ranged options even in open world, though.

[Malafaia.8903]

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:Run double LBs with Sigils of Frenzy, Lead the Wind and Quick Draw for absurd amounts of RF ;)http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATTnUqAtCilsAWsActgl8AL/9Wf7vMHsC2JYJAUAWbl495A-jhBFQBpRXQLvEAIZ/R5HAeCAXRJYhU/JAACwNvZ28mBu5Nv5Nv5N7628m38m38m38m38mlBQfMA-e

OMG! I need to buy PoF to try this!

[Zenith.7301]

@Lome.8239 said:Just as a heads up, Vicious Quarry outdamages Quick Draw in power builds, and Axe/Warhorn outdamages Longbow as a ranged option with Vicious Quarry.

Try it out!

You can still feel Sword/Axe dominate ranged options even in open world, though.

No way does mainhand axe outperform longbow.

[Aomine.5012]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Lome.8239 said:Just as a heads up, Vicious Quarry outdamages Quick Draw in power builds, and Axe/Warhorn outdamages Longbow as a ranged option with Vicious Quarry.

Try it out!

You can still feel Sword/Axe dominate ranged options even in open world, though.

No way does mainhand axe outperform longbow.

LB only has a slightly higher dps than axe+wh AT MAX RANGE (1000+) , with no might/ fury application on itself.It also has lower synergy with Nature Magic because it can not self stack to 25 might by spamming axe 1 and use we heal as one.

When you consider these factors, where axe wh ALWAYS have permanent fury, 25 stacks might , swiftness, tag 2 enemies without any trait, yes, Axe does out-perform LB in open world by a large margin. LB is more for WvW really, not really such a great weapon in Open world or PVE group contents.

[Mic.1897]

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Lome.8239 said:Just as a heads up, Vicious Quarry outdamages Quick Draw in power builds, and Axe/Warhorn outdamages Longbow as a ranged option with Vicious Quarry.

Try it out!

You can still feel Sword/Axe dominate ranged options even in open world, though.

No way does mainhand axe outperform longbow.

It does with Vicious Quarry my friend, especially with Nature Magic.

Longbow is too reliant on Quick Draw, which is not as good for Power as it used to be. As Aomine said it doesnt provide the Fury uptime when soloing and it is only competitive at max range, which is too far away for Spotter in groups.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Lome.8239 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Lome.8239 said:Just as a heads up, Vicious Quarry outdamages Quick Draw in power builds, and Axe/Warhorn outdamages Longbow as a ranged option with Vicious Quarry.

Try it out!

You can still feel Sword/Axe dominate ranged options even in open world, though.

No way does mainhand axe outperform longbow.

It does with Vicious Quarry my friend, especially with Nature Magic.

Longbow is too reliant on Quick Draw, which is not as good for Power as it used to be. As Aomine said it doesnt provide the Fury uptime when soloing and it is only competitive at max range, which is too far away for Spotter in groups.

OP is talking about open world PvE, stuff dies with the LB before you even get into Axe range.

[Fluffball.8307]

I view weapons in open world as conveniences, and lb is very convenient. It let's you tag things that would have died before you got there, it speeds up deaths as you approach melee (talking ex pacs where it doesn't just instagib things like in core), and it gives you a safe option to do just about anything.

We're lucky that every weapon we have is good enough to be nearly optimal, ignoring power versus condi.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@Fluffball.8307 said:I view weapons in open world as conveniences, and lb is very convenient. It let's you tag things that would have died before you got there, it speeds up deaths as you approach melee (talking ex pacs where it doesn't just instagib things like in core), and it gives you a safe option to do just about anything.

We're lucky that every weapon we have is good enough to be nearly optimal, ignoring power versus condi.

It also makes a satisfying 'thunk' or 'squish' on impact, no? ;) Besides, I don't believe Axe/Warhorn has access to a disable effect. Which was the point of this thread, really.

[Terimac.5871]

@Lome.8239 said:

It does with Vicious Quarry my friend, especially with Nature Magic.

Longbow is too reliant on Quick Draw, which is not as good for Power as it used to be. As Aomine said it doesnt provide the Fury uptime when soloing and it is only competitive at max range, which is too far away for Spotter in groups.

Would axe still be better than LB if you dont use vicious Quarry but honed axes insteed? I use Beastmastery/wilderness survival/soulbeast

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@Terimac.5871 said:

@Lome.8239 said:

It does with Vicious Quarry my friend, especially with Nature Magic.

Longbow is too reliant on Quick Draw, which is not as good for Power as it used to be. As Aomine said it doesnt provide the Fury uptime when soloing and it is only competitive at max range, which is too far away for Spotter in groups.

Would axe still be better than LB if you dont use vicious Quarry but honed axes insteed? I use Beastmastery/wilderness survival/soulbeast

I imagine Axe would be best combining Vicious Quarry and Honed Axes. On it's own, however, I don't believe Vicious Quarry is worth losing Hunter's Gaze, Steady Focus, and either Lead the Wind or Predator's Onslaught.

[Quarktastic.1027]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Terimac.5871 said:

@Lome.8239 said:

It does with Vicious Quarry my friend, especially with Nature Magic.

Longbow is too reliant on Quick Draw, which is not as good for Power as it used to be. As Aomine said it doesnt provide the Fury uptime when soloing and it is only competitive at max range, which is too far away for Spotter in groups.

Would axe still be better than LB if you dont use vicious Quarry but honed axes insteed? I use Beastmastery/wilderness survival/soulbeast

I imagine Axe would be best combining Vicious Quarry and Honed Axes. On it's own, however, I don't believe Vicious Quarry is worth losing Hunter's Gaze, Steady Focus, and either Lead the Wind or Predator's Onslaught.

I very much like skirmishing for the vigor on dodge, fury on weapon swap, and definitely vicious quarry. I played with a marks/skirmishing build, but I actually like beast mastery/skirmishing better. If anet changes loud whistle to apply its damage buff to us while merged, it will close the gap even further.

[Aomine.5012]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Terimac.5871 said:

@Lome.8239 said:

It does with Vicious Quarry my friend, especially with Nature Magic.

Longbow is too reliant on Quick Draw, which is not as good for Power as it used to be. As Aomine said it doesnt provide the Fury uptime when soloing and it is only competitive at max range, which is too far away for Spotter in groups.

Would axe still be better than LB if you dont use vicious Quarry but honed axes insteed? I use Beastmastery/wilderness survival/soulbeast

I imagine Axe would be best combining Vicious Quarry and Honed Axes. On it's own, however, I don't believe Vicious Quarry is worth losing Hunter's Gaze, Steady Focus, and either Lead the Wind or Predator's Onslaught.

Don't forget Skirmishing has spotter too.Vicious Querry also add 10% more crit rate on top of 250 ferocity.So picking Skirmishing alone equates to around 20% more crit rate and 250 more ferocity with no prior requirement like cripple on foes.

Lead the Wind is a huge dps lost for LB, this is the main reason why I say LB in open world is inferior.First of all, if you give-up predator onslaught, there's almost no point getting Marksmanship as dps trait in the first place because Skirmishing completely outdps Marksmanship without it.Second of all, LB cannot maintain the cripple duration full time in open world because it does not have long enough cripple.Axe, on the other hand, even if grabbing Marksmanship over Skirmishing, can reliably maintaining the Predator Onslaught effect by apply almost constant chill.

I still prefer Skirmishing over Marksmanship though.In open world, I'd actually giveup both Skirmishing and Marksmanship, and pick Nature Magic and Soulbeast over them because beastmode literally grant pet a source of immortality in pve because pet get a free revive and full health whenever you go into beast mode and it only has a 10 sec cd.Soulbeast also gives 7% more crit dm and 10% more damage (hp higher), that literally replace Marksmanship bonus.As for Nature Magic, it gives both you and your pet Permanent 25 might, permanent fury, and high quickness uptime (because the duration is doubled on pet when you Quickening), and protection, which will clearly outdamage Marksmanship, Skirmishing in open world. (Pet is a main source of dps in open world for ranger because when permanent alacrity, quickness, warrior's buff/ banners, Druid's buffs is not put into consideration, the dps between you and your pet is alot closer when both of you guys have the same boons )

[Kanto.1659]

Out of curiosity what would we be using to kill with the axe? Warhorn isn't offensive, axe 2 is condition, axe 3 is utility. Would it be a matter of autoattacking and sprinkling SB pet attacks?

[Aomine.5012]

@Kanto.1659 said:Out of curiosity what would we be using to kill with the axe? Warhorn isn't offensive, axe 2 is condition, axe 3 is utility. Would it be a matter of autoattacking and sprinkling SB pet attacks?

Axe 3 is an aoe and a dps increase even for Power ranger.They buff it quite alot.

Axe 2 is mainly for the finisher stuff.

Warhorn 4 is a dps increase too.

You can go Axe axe if you want, but I generally make axe off-hand pair with sword. (Sword axe is the highest dps combo for power ranger.)

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:I view weapons in open world as conveniences, and lb is very convenient. It let's you tag things that would have died before you got there, it speeds up deaths as you approach melee (talking ex pacs where it doesn't just instagib things like in core), and it gives you a safe option to do just about anything.

We're lucky that every weapon we have is good enough to be nearly optimal, ignoring power versus condi.

It also makes a satisfying 'thunk' or 'squish' on impact, no? ;) Besides, I don't believe Axe/Warhorn has access to a disable effect. Which was the point of this thread, really.

Yeah, I'd never play A/T over LB in open world. The burst potential from LB is just too good, it's almost the perfect toolbox, having a skill for all occasions and 1500 range. Plus yeah, the effects, particularly that sound effect when you kill something with a crit... Satisfying.

The synergy between PBS and TaV followed by a RF is cool, I just wish it was a stacking effect like Attackers Insight or just a bit better than 5%.

[Mic.1897]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:I view weapons in open world as conveniences, and lb is very convenient. It let's you tag things that would have died before you got there, it speeds up deaths as you approach melee (talking ex pacs where it doesn't just instagib things like in core), and it gives you a safe option to do just about anything.

We're lucky that every weapon we have is good enough to be nearly optimal, ignoring power versus condi.

It also makes a satisfying 'thunk' or 'squish' on impact, no? ;) Besides, I don't believe Axe/Warhorn has access to a disable effect. Which was the point of this thread, really.

Well Rock Gazelle is the best tanking pet in OW and it obliterates breakbars, so youre covered there.

[Dojo.1867]

@Aomine.5012 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Lome.8239 said:Just as a heads up, Vicious Quarry outdamages Quick Draw in power builds, and Axe/Warhorn outdamages Longbow as a ranged option with Vicious Quarry.

Try it out!

You can still feel Sword/Axe dominate ranged options even in open world, though.

No way does mainhand axe outperform longbow.

LB only has a slightly higher dps than axe+wh AT MAX RANGE (1000+) , with no might/ fury application on itself.It also has lower synergy with Nature Magic because it can not self stack to 25 might by spamming axe 1 and use we heal as one.

When you consider these factors, where axe wh ALWAYS have permanent fury, 25 stacks might , swiftness, tag 2 enemies without any trait, yes, Axe does out-perform LB in open world by a large margin. LB is more for WvW really, not really such a great weapon in Open world or PVE group contents.

Imo the reason LB easily beats AXE is the piercing if you somewhat know how to position.

[Aomine.5012]

@Dojo.1867 said:

@Aomine.5012 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Lome.8239 said:Just as a heads up, Vicious Quarry outdamages Quick Draw in power builds, and Axe/Warhorn outdamages Longbow as a ranged option with Vicious Quarry.

Try it out!

You can still feel Sword/Axe dominate ranged options even in open world, though.

No way does mainhand axe outperform longbow.

LB only has a slightly higher dps than axe+wh AT MAX RANGE (1000+) , with no might/ fury application on itself.It also has lower synergy with Nature Magic because it can not self stack to 25 might by spamming axe 1 and use we heal as one.

When you consider these factors, where axe wh ALWAYS have permanent fury, 25 stacks might , swiftness, tag 2 enemies without any trait, yes, Axe does out-perform LB in open world by a large margin. LB is more for WvW really, not really such a great weapon in Open world or PVE group contents.

Imo the reason LB easily beats AXE is the piercing if you somewhat know how to position.

Exactly, but when you grab the piercing , your damage is even more pathetic, almost the same dps as axe now, except axe get a real aoe and bounce 2 without positioning.Also if you stand within 1000 range AND grab Lead the WInd, your damage is inferior to axe now with no utility, no might, no fury and hardly hit anything that's not standing in a line. You're also stuck with the traitline Marksmanship in general.

Trust me, I played power ranger for years, and I used to be a Longbow fanatic in PVE too, but now I realize it's not a good weapon set even in open world compare to axe wh. It's an even worse weapon in group contents overall since you need to stay too far away from your teammates to get the optimize damage, and you provide no boons to your team. Sure you can grab wh and pair it with sword as your 2nd set, but then your dps is even lower cuz you miss out axe off-hand, which is a huge part of dps for power ranger, way bigger than Longbow ever could have achieved.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:Lately, I've been having fun in open world PvE on A Longbow Soulbeast. With MS/BM/SB, I've been able to hit 20k Rapid Fires, thanks in small part to the trait Twice as Vicious.

With that in mind, I must apologize to those I annoy... But I can not be stopped! :p

As a point of discussion for the Rangers: Would you prefer a knockdown vs the current knockback?

if it was a made a knockdown in PvE only, the weapon would be almost perfect. No way in hell anet will do something like that.

[OGDeadHead.8326]

@Dojo.1867 said:Imo the reason LB easily beats AXE is the piercing if you somewhat know how to position.

While longbow piercing will outshine axe if positioned properly, you won't always be able to do that. I would say in the long run, axe will outdamage longbow by a LOT due to the simplicity of use. Just try with a big target - even if you try to position yourself just right, your arrow will fly over the trash around the boss. Axe is superior in a majority of the content in that regard.

[Mic.1897]

@Dojo.1867 said:

@Aomine.5012 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Lome.8239 said:Just as a heads up, Vicious Quarry outdamages Quick Draw in power builds, and Axe/Warhorn outdamages Longbow as a ranged option with Vicious Quarry.

Try it out!

You can still feel Sword/Axe dominate ranged options even in open world, though.

No way does mainhand axe outperform longbow.

LB only has a slightly higher dps than axe+wh AT MAX RANGE (1000+) , with no might/ fury application on itself.It also has lower synergy with Nature Magic because it can not self stack to 25 might by spamming axe 1 and use we heal as one.

When you consider these factors, where axe wh ALWAYS have permanent fury, 25 stacks might , swiftness, tag 2 enemies without any trait, yes, Axe does out-perform LB in open world by a large margin. LB is more for WvW really, not really such a great weapon in Open world or PVE group contents.

Imo the reason LB easily beats AXE is the piercing if you somewhat know how to position.

This implies use of Marksmanship, which is a terrible trait line for open world IMO.

Skirmishing and Nature Magic seem like the best 2 lines. After that you can do Soulbeast for the OW utility it provides or you can go Wilderness Survival to solo the big stuff by pulsing infinite Protection + Rugged Growth onto your Gazelle.

[Aomine.5012]

@Lome.8239 said:

@Dojo.1867 said:

@Aomine.5012 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Lome.8239 said:Just as a heads up, Vicious Quarry outdamages Quick Draw in power builds, and Axe/Warhorn outdamages Longbow as a ranged option with Vicious Quarry.

Try it out!

You can still feel Sword/Axe dominate ranged options even in open world, though.

No way does mainhand axe outperform longbow.

LB only has a slightly higher dps than axe+wh AT MAX RANGE (1000+) , with no might/ fury application on itself.It also has lower synergy with Nature Magic because it can not self stack to 25 might by spamming axe 1 and use we heal as one.

When you consider these factors, where axe wh ALWAYS have permanent fury, 25 stacks might , swiftness, tag 2 enemies without any trait, yes, Axe does out-perform LB in open world by a large margin. LB is more for WvW really, not really such a great weapon in Open world or PVE group contents.

Imo the reason LB easily beats AXE is the piercing if you somewhat know how to position.

This implies use of Marksmanship, which is a terrible trait line for open world IMO.

Skirmishing and Nature Magic seem like the best 2 lines. After that you can do Soulbeast for the OW utility it provides or you can go Wilderness Survival to solo the big stuff by pulsing infinite Protection + Rugged Growth onto your Gazelle.

If you're going to use axe off-hand or main-hand, it's best to grab Beastmaster over Skirmishing because:

1. Lower cd on ranger's main dps which is axe 4 and 5.
2. Winter's Bite becomes good aoe and cc.
3. Shorter cool down on shout, shortening the key combo of Ranger's 25 might. (Nature Magic+ We heal as one), and even shorten Sick em cd to make Soulbeast better.
4. Higher pet damage. Jacaranda dps is amazing in pve/ ranger standard, and it's also good aoe damage which ranger sorely lacking in.

I highly recommend grabbing Soulbeast for pve solo because it literally make pet near unkillable, making you the best class to solo Champion in open-world.

[Mic.1897]

@Aomine.5012 said:

@Lome.8239 said:

@Dojo.1867 said:

@Aomine.5012 said:

@Zenith.7301 said:

@Lome.8239 said:Just as a heads up, Vicious Quarry outdamages Quick Draw in power builds, and Axe/Warhorn outdamages Longbow as a ranged option with Vicious Quarry.

Try it out!

You can still feel Sword/Axe dominate ranged options even in open world, though.

No way does mainhand axe outperform longbow.

LB only has a slightly higher dps than axe+wh AT MAX RANGE (1000+) , with no might/ fury application on itself.It also has lower synergy with Nature Magic because it can not self stack to 25 might by spamming axe 1 and use we heal as one.

When you consider these factors, where axe wh ALWAYS have permanent fury, 25 stacks might , swiftness, tag 2 enemies without any trait, yes, Axe does out-perform LB in open world by a large margin. LB is more for WvW really, not really such a great weapon in Open world or PVE group contents.

Imo the reason LB easily beats AXE is the piercing if you somewhat know how to position.

This implies use of Marksmanship, which is a terrible trait line for open world IMO.

Skirmishing and Nature Magic seem like the best 2 lines. After that you can do Soulbeast for the OW utility it provides or you can go Wilderness Survival to solo the big stuff by pulsing infinite Protection + Rugged Growth onto your Gazelle.

If you're going to use axe off-hand or main-hand, it's best to grab Beastmaster over Skirmishing because:

1. Lower cd on ranger's main dps which is axe 4 and 5.
2. Winter's Bite becomes good aoe and cc.
3. Shorter cool down on shout, shortening the key combo of Ranger's 25 might. (Nature Magic+ We heal as one), and even shorten Sick em cd to make Soulbeast better.
4. Higher pet damage. Jacaranda dps is amazing in pve/ ranger standard, and it's also good aoe damage which ranger sorely lacking in.

I highly recommend grabbing Soulbeast for pve solo because it literally make pet near unkillable, making you the best class to solo Champion in open-world.

Idk man

Skirmishing gives you 27% crit chance, 250 ferocity and sharpened edges.

I can see BM being good with Soulbeast but I hate Soulbeast. lol