Necros community..

silent killer.5732 · October 11, 2017

@Vertep.2498 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Griever.8150 said:Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.
I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.
The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

We are not a support eitherIn the pve it works but in pvpAll we can do is giving 2k barrior and 5k if you stavk with the player you want to lend that barrior to.. And mainly we remove the condi from our allays

And we are not aoe class nor meleeWhat we are idk

But we dont have the survive ability as what the melee classes hasAnd we cant one shot people from distance as what the range classess does

We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

So if everyone cry about how strong the scourge at melee range.

We are totally fine with removing the sand shade and its no longer placeableAnd let us have our death shroud with the sand shade skills on it with 1200 range and thats good again and its only hits one target

You think thats another form of op??

Thats the exact power as the one shot theif with one different. This is condi and the other one is power

and tbh if you have 2 scrouges in team you are mostly in win team if ther is no thieves in enemies and at al arnt they that much playable now because of their insane aoe condi? in every pvp match I see mostly atleast 2 scrouges if not more, rarely see less than 2

so they dont have this mobility and survivability etc...but they have in compensate that high

AOE CONDI

in melee range as its more brainless than DE with unlad spam and if you arnt this SB or guard with condi cleanse nothing will save you from scrouge if you let him catch you in melee range (Im looking at you criple)

its so funny gow this scrouge is "weak" and with this it shoud be unplayabe but thanks to this inconceivable aoe condis we see scrouges in every match and they are dominating classes to win along with warriors

so if we want scrouge with more survivability, mobility etc then we should take away that insane condis from him with range of his aoe's

now the only good counter to this scrouge is just stand in range and killing him becaunse in melee range you will got melted instantly...even condi cleanse wont help you because of his huge range aoe with new condi stacks in just moment

In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too

And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win

Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers

Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

Vertep.2498 · October 11, 2017

@silent killer.5732 said:
@Vertep.2498 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Griever.8150 said:Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.
I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.
The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

We are not a support eitherIn the pve it works but in pvpAll we can do is giving 2k barrior and 5k if you stavk with the player you want to lend that barrior to.. And mainly we remove the condi from our allays

And we are not aoe class nor meleeWhat we are idk

But we dont have the survive ability as what the melee classes hasAnd we cant one shot people from distance as what the range classess does

We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

So if everyone cry about how strong the scourge at melee range.

We are totally fine with removing the sand shade and its no longer placeableAnd let us have our death shroud with the sand shade skills on it with 1200 range and thats good again and its only hits one target

You think thats another form of op??

Thats the exact power as the one shot theif with one different. This is condi and the other one is power

and tbh if you have 2 scrouges in team you are mostly in win team if ther is no thieves in enemies and at al arnt they that much playable now because of their insane aoe condi? in every pvp match I see mostly atleast 2 scrouges if not more, rarely see less than 2

so they dont have this mobility and survivability etc...but they have in compensate that high

AOE CONDI

in melee range as its more brainless than DE with unlad spam and if you arnt this SB or guard with condi cleanse nothing will save you from scrouge if you let him catch you in melee range (Im looking at you criple)

its so funny gow this scrouge is "weak" and with this it shoud be unplayabe but thanks to this inconceivable aoe condis we see scrouges in every match and they are dominating classes to win along with warriors

so if we want scrouge with more survivability, mobility etc then we should take away that insane condis from him with range of his aoe's

now the only good counter to this scrouge is just stand in range and killing him becaunse in melee range you will got melted instantly...even condi cleanse wont help you because of his huge range aoe with new condi stacks in just moment

In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too

And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win

Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers

Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

yeah you are right about duo's but you wont deny we now see much more scrouges in pvp than other classes :P

Unholy Pillager.3791 · October 11, 2017

@silent killer.5732 said:
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...

I really don't know what im gonna say to youYou said your new elite isn't any good but you mentioned you have your dd who already dominating .

In other hand we have only one meta build which is tge scourge and we can't play with the reaper anymore because of all the PoF elite specializations how you compare your class with any other class while yours can outclass any other classes and i mean all your builds are doing great in the current meta.

We only have this build to play with right now and even this build will get nerfed to the bottom

Reaper actually isn't bad against most of the PoF elites. I mean, one of the more dangerous things was moa ending shroud early, and holosmiths can't take it (no toolbelt f5) while mirages typically don't take it (and wouldn't have continuum split for it if they did). Right now, reapers are only weak because scourges are so strong; a reaper on your team is a strong, balanced build taking the place of a ridiculously op build, which is a net loss for your team. I will say that reapers are weak against spellbreakers, but so is almost everyone; spellbreakers need to be toned down just like scourges do. It's weak against deadeyes, but it was also weak against daredevil, wasn't it? Soulbeast likely isn't any stronger against it than druid was (probably less strong, actually). I do admit that I'm not sure about renegade or firebrand.

@silent killer.5732 said:
@Vertep.2498 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Griever.8150 said:Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.
I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.
The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

We are not a support eitherIn the pve it works but in pvpAll we can do is giving 2k barrior and 5k if you stavk with the player you want to lend that barrior to.. And mainly we remove the condi from our allays

And we are not aoe class nor meleeWhat we are idk

But we dont have the survive ability as what the melee classes hasAnd we cant one shot people from distance as what the range classess does

We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

So if everyone cry about how strong the scourge at melee range.

We are totally fine with removing the sand shade and its no longer placeableAnd let us have our death shroud with the sand shade skills on it with 1200 range and thats good again and its only hits one target

You think thats another form of op??

Thats the exact power as the one shot theif with one different. This is condi and the other one is power

and tbh if you have 2 scrouges in team you are mostly in win team if ther is no thieves in enemies and at al arnt they that much playable now because of their insane aoe condi? in every pvp match I see mostly atleast 2 scrouges if not more, rarely see less than 2

so they dont have this mobility and survivability etc...but they have in compensate that high

AOE CONDI

in melee range as its more brainless than DE with unlad spam and if you arnt this SB or guard with condi cleanse nothing will save you from scrouge if you let him catch you in melee range (Im looking at you criple)

its so funny gow this scrouge is "weak" and with this it shoud be unplayabe but thanks to this inconceivable aoe condis we see scrouges in every match and they are dominating classes to win along with warriors

so if we want scrouge with more survivability, mobility etc then we should take away that insane condis from him with range of his aoe's

now the only good counter to this scrouge is just stand in range and killing him becaunse in melee range you will got melted instantly...even condi cleanse wont help you because of his huge range aoe with new condi stacks in just moment

In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too

And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win

Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers

Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

Two thieves on your team is, in my experience, a disadvantage, and none of those other options are as strong as dual scourge right now. Not even close.

Crinn.7864 · October 11, 2017

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...

I really don't know what im gonna say to youYou said your new elite isn't any good but you mentioned you have your dd who already dominating .

In other hand we have only one meta build which is tge scourge and we can't play with the reaper anymore because of all the PoF elite specializations how you compare your class with any other class while yours can outclass any other classes and i mean all your builds are doing great in the current meta.

We only have this build to play with right now and even this build will get nerfed to the bottom

Reaper actually isn't bad against most of the PoF elites. I mean, one of the more dangerous things was moa ending shroud early, and holosmiths can't take it (no toolbelt f5) while mirages typically don't take it (and wouldn't have continuum split for it if they did). Right now, reapers are only weak because scourges are so strong; a reaper on your team is a strong, balanced build taking the place of a ridiculously op build, which is a net loss for your team. I will say that reapers are weak against spellbreakers, but so is almost everyone; spellbreakers need to be toned down just like scourges do. It's weak against deadeyes, but it was also weak against daredevil, wasn't it? Soulbeast likely isn't any stronger against it than druid was (probably less strong, actually). I do admit that I'm not sure about renegade or firebrand.

@silent killer.5732 said:
@Vertep.2498 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Griever.8150 said:Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.
I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.
The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

We are not a support eitherIn the pve it works but in pvpAll we can do is giving 2k barrior and 5k if you stavk with the player you want to lend that barrior to.. And mainly we remove the condi from our allays

And we are not aoe class nor meleeWhat we are idk

But we dont have the survive ability as what the melee classes hasAnd we cant one shot people from distance as what the range classess does

We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

So if everyone cry about how strong the scourge at melee range.

We are totally fine with removing the sand shade and its no longer placeableAnd let us have our death shroud with the sand shade skills on it with 1200 range and thats good again and its only hits one target

You think thats another form of op??

Thats the exact power as the one shot theif with one different. This is condi and the other one is power

and tbh if you have 2 scrouges in team you are mostly in win team if ther is no thieves in enemies and at al arnt they that much playable now because of their insane aoe condi? in every pvp match I see mostly atleast 2 scrouges if not more, rarely see less than 2

so they dont have this mobility and survivability etc...but they have in compensate that high

AOE CONDI

in melee range as its more brainless than DE with unlad spam and if you arnt this SB or guard with condi cleanse nothing will save you from scrouge if you let him catch you in melee range (Im looking at you criple)

its so funny gow this scrouge is "weak" and with this it shoud be unplayabe but thanks to this inconceivable aoe condis we see scrouges in every match and they are dominating classes to win along with warriors

so if we want scrouge with more survivability, mobility etc then we should take away that insane condis from him with range of his aoe's

now the only good counter to this scrouge is just stand in range and killing him becaunse in melee range you will got melted instantly...even condi cleanse wont help you because of his huge range aoe with new condi stacks in just moment

In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too

And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win

Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers

Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

Two thieves on your team is, in my experience, a

disadvantage

, and none of those other options are as strong as dual scourge right now. Not even close.

Except reaper does in fact perform poorly against PoF elites.

Rifle Holosmith will always win against a reaper, the engi will just kite during shroud, and murder the reaper when shroud drops.Mirages easily kills reaper. (granted mirage is a superb duelist in general)Bunker Firebrand is too tanky to be brought down by reaper.Spellbreaker also easily kills reaper 1v1 and in teamfights.Scourge is 50/50, and depends wildly on what utilities the reaper is running.All common thief variants can easily kill a reaper with minimal risk to the thief.Soulbeast, Weaver, and Renegade idk about since I haven't had the opportunity to fight many of them.

It's not just PoF builds either. Both core radiance guardian and core power warrior win against reaper (primarily due to both of those classes having a significant damage advantage over reaper while having better sustain) Druid can of course easily kite a reaper.

Unholy Pillager.3791 · October 12, 2017

@Crinn.7864 said:
@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...

I really don't know what im gonna say to youYou said your new elite isn't any good but you mentioned you have your dd who already dominating .

In other hand we have only one meta build which is tge scourge and we can't play with the reaper anymore because of all the PoF elite specializations how you compare your class with any other class while yours can outclass any other classes and i mean all your builds are doing great in the current meta.

We only have this build to play with right now and even this build will get nerfed to the bottom

Reaper actually isn't bad against most of the PoF elites. I mean, one of the more dangerous things was moa ending shroud early, and holosmiths can't take it (no toolbelt f5) while mirages typically don't take it (and wouldn't have continuum split for it if they did). Right now, reapers are only weak because scourges are so strong; a reaper on your team is a strong, balanced build taking the place of a ridiculously op build, which is a net loss for your team. I will say that reapers are weak against spellbreakers, but so is almost everyone; spellbreakers need to be toned down just like scourges do. It's weak against deadeyes, but it was also weak against daredevil, wasn't it? Soulbeast likely isn't any stronger against it than druid was (probably less strong, actually). I do admit that I'm not sure about renegade or firebrand.

@silent killer.5732 said:
@Vertep.2498 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Griever.8150 said:Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.
I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.
The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

We are not a support eitherIn the pve it works but in pvpAll we can do is giving 2k barrior and 5k if you stavk with the player you want to lend that barrior to.. And mainly we remove the condi from our allays

And we are not aoe class nor meleeWhat we are idk

But we dont have the survive ability as what the melee classes hasAnd we cant one shot people from distance as what the range classess does

We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

So if everyone cry about how strong the scourge at melee range.

We are totally fine with removing the sand shade and its no longer placeableAnd let us have our death shroud with the sand shade skills on it with 1200 range and thats good again and its only hits one target

You think thats another form of op??

Thats the exact power as the one shot theif with one different. This is condi and the other one is power

and tbh if you have 2 scrouges in team you are mostly in win team if ther is no thieves in enemies and at al arnt they that much playable now because of their insane aoe condi? in every pvp match I see mostly atleast 2 scrouges if not more, rarely see less than 2

so they dont have this mobility and survivability etc...but they have in compensate that high

AOE CONDI

in melee range as its more brainless than DE with unlad spam and if you arnt this SB or guard with condi cleanse nothing will save you from scrouge if you let him catch you in melee range (Im looking at you criple)

its so funny gow this scrouge is "weak" and with this it shoud be unplayabe but thanks to this inconceivable aoe condis we see scrouges in every match and they are dominating classes to win along with warriors

so if we want scrouge with more survivability, mobility etc then we should take away that insane condis from him with range of his aoe's

now the only good counter to this scrouge is just stand in range and killing him becaunse in melee range you will got melted instantly...even condi cleanse wont help you because of his huge range aoe with new condi stacks in just moment

In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too

And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win

Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers

Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

Two thieves on your team is, in my experience, a

disadvantage

, and none of those other options are as strong as dual scourge right now. Not even close.

Except reaper does in fact perform poorly against PoF elites.

Rifle Holosmith will always win against a reaper, the engi will just kite during shroud, and murder the reaper when shroud drops.Mirages easily kills reaper. (granted mirage is a superb duelist in general)Bunker Firebrand is too tanky to be brought down by reaper.Spellbreaker also easily kills reaper 1v1 and in teamfights.Scourge is 50/50, and depends wildly on what utilities the reaper is running.All common thief variants can easily kill a reaper with minimal risk to the thief.Soulbeast, Weaver, and Renegade idk about since I haven't had the opportunity to fight many of them.

It's not just PoF builds either. Both core radiance guardian and core power warrior win against reaper (primarily due to both of those classes having a significant damage advantage over reaper while having better sustain) Druid can of course easily kite a reaper.

You're looking at it in terms of 1v1, despite reaper being a spec optimized for team fights in a team-based game mode. But even looking at 1v1s, you overlooked some things, like the fact that firebrand bunker is too tanky to be killed by just about anyone, and that spellbreaker is difficult to take down for anyone except scourge (saying that reaper is underpowered because it performs poorly against scourge, firebrand and spellbreaker is really stupid; everything else performs poorly against those, too, that's why they're considered overpowered). Anything that has to kite reaper to be at all successful is often yielding them the capture point, in a game based around taking and holding those.

Kiritodatrth.1548 · October 12, 2017

Reaper is horrible 1 vs 1 in any scenario, the problem is that we already had problems with DH, Mesmers, Thiefs, Warriors, Eles only class we could 1 vs 1 was engineer... nowadays not even engineer is available, and these classes just 1 sec melt a reaper (even with shroud)...I had a poor reaper (Vampiric GS) on the other team yesterday while playing mirage... I could actually 1 shot condi him with his reaper shroud the poor guy made everything right, but there is nothing he can do...

Look I'm not saying that scourge is right, what I'm saying is that all POF specs are overtunned and nerfing anything now will not fix the cancer, just create a new one...Fixing the MMR is a better solution, allowing only 1 class per game, and not allowing to shift classes (to already a taken one) is a better solution.... It would make only 1 scourge available per game and 1 spellbreaker, and would require much more coordination on how to use these capabilities. Nerfing the classes will not help... you will see...

Vertep.2498 · October 12, 2017

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:Reaper is horrible 1 vs 1 in any scenario, the problem is that we already had problems with DH, Mesmers, Thiefs, Warriors, Eles only class we could 1 vs 1 was engineer... nowadays not even engineer is available, and these classes just 1 sec melt a reaper (even with shroud)...I had a poor reaper (Vampiric GS) on the other team yesterday while playing mirage... I could actually 1 shot condi him with his reaper shroud the poor guy made everything right, but there is nothing he can do...
Look I'm not saying that scourge is right, what I'm saying is that all POF specs are overtunned and nerfing anything now will not fix the cancer, just create a new one...Fixing the MMR is a better solution, allowing only 1 class per game, and not allowing to shift classes (to already a taken one) is a better solution.... It would make only 1 scourge available per game and 1 spellbreaker, and would require much more coordination on how to use these capabilities. Nerfing the classes will not help... you will see...

as for me situation with scrouge survivability and mobility..you can thank to to much condis on him which are just destroying and just pvp and scrouge itself with any other aspect than spam big aoe condis wchich is very effectife inspvp to getting points

Crinn.7864 · October 12, 2017

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@Crinn.7864 said:
@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...

I really don't know what im gonna say to youYou said your new elite isn't any good but you mentioned you have your dd who already dominating .

In other hand we have only one meta build which is tge scourge and we can't play with the reaper anymore because of all the PoF elite specializations how you compare your class with any other class while yours can outclass any other classes and i mean all your builds are doing great in the current meta.

We only have this build to play with right now and even this build will get nerfed to the bottom

Reaper actually isn't bad against most of the PoF elites. I mean, one of the more dangerous things was moa ending shroud early, and holosmiths can't take it (no toolbelt f5) while mirages typically don't take it (and wouldn't have continuum split for it if they did). Right now, reapers are only weak because scourges are so strong; a reaper on your team is a strong, balanced build taking the place of a ridiculously op build, which is a net loss for your team. I will say that reapers are weak against spellbreakers, but so is almost everyone; spellbreakers need to be toned down just like scourges do. It's weak against deadeyes, but it was also weak against daredevil, wasn't it? Soulbeast likely isn't any stronger against it than druid was (probably less strong, actually). I do admit that I'm not sure about renegade or firebrand.

@silent killer.5732 said:
@Vertep.2498 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Griever.8150 said:Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.
I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.
The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

We are not a support eitherIn the pve it works but in pvpAll we can do is giving 2k barrior and 5k if you stavk with the player you want to lend that barrior to.. And mainly we remove the condi from our allays

And we are not aoe class nor meleeWhat we are idk

But we dont have the survive ability as what the melee classes hasAnd we cant one shot people from distance as what the range classess does

We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

So if everyone cry about how strong the scourge at melee range.

We are totally fine with removing the sand shade and its no longer placeableAnd let us have our death shroud with the sand shade skills on it with 1200 range and thats good again and its only hits one target

You think thats another form of op??

Thats the exact power as the one shot theif with one different. This is condi and the other one is power

and tbh if you have 2 scrouges in team you are mostly in win team if ther is no thieves in enemies and at al arnt they that much playable now because of their insane aoe condi? in every pvp match I see mostly atleast 2 scrouges if not more, rarely see less than 2

so they dont have this mobility and survivability etc...but they have in compensate that high

AOE CONDI

in melee range as its more brainless than DE with unlad spam and if you arnt this SB or guard with condi cleanse nothing will save you from scrouge if you let him catch you in melee range (Im looking at you criple)

its so funny gow this scrouge is "weak" and with this it shoud be unplayabe but thanks to this inconceivable aoe condis we see scrouges in every match and they are dominating classes to win along with warriors

so if we want scrouge with more survivability, mobility etc then we should take away that insane condis from him with range of his aoe's

now the only good counter to this scrouge is just stand in range and killing him becaunse in melee range you will got melted instantly...even condi cleanse wont help you because of his huge range aoe with new condi stacks in just moment

In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too

And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win

Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers

Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

Two thieves on your team is, in my experience, a

disadvantage

, and none of those other options are as strong as dual scourge right now. Not even close.

Except reaper does in fact perform poorly against PoF elites.

Rifle Holosmith will always win against a reaper, the engi will just kite during shroud, and murder the reaper when shroud drops.Mirages easily kills reaper. (granted mirage is a superb duelist in general)Bunker Firebrand is too tanky to be brought down by reaper.Spellbreaker also easily kills reaper 1v1 and in teamfights.Scourge is 50/50, and depends wildly on what utilities the reaper is running.All common thief variants can easily kill a reaper with minimal risk to the thief.Soulbeast, Weaver, and Renegade idk about since I haven't had the opportunity to fight many of them.

It's not just PoF builds either. Both core radiance guardian and core power warrior win against reaper (primarily due to both of those classes having a significant damage advantage over reaper while having better sustain) Druid can of course easily kite a reaper.

You're looking at it in terms of 1v1, despite reaper being a spec optimized for team fights in a team-based game mode. But even looking at 1v1s, you overlooked some things, like the fact that firebrand bunker is too tanky to be killed by just about anyone, and that spellbreaker is difficult to take down for anyone except scourge (saying that reaper is underpowered because it performs poorly against scourge, firebrand and spellbreaker is really stupid;

everything else

performs poorly against those, too, that's why they're considered overpowered). Anything that has to kite reaper to be at all successful is often yielding them the capture point, in a game based around taking and holding those.

The meta is mirage, scourge, bunker firebrand, spellbreaker, and rifle Holo.

Reaper can't win against those, therefore reaper is bad. It doesn't matter how well Reaper can fight off-meta classes when the majority of your opponents will be countering you.

Anything that has to kite reaper to be at all successful is often yielding them the capture point, in a game based around taking and holding those.Getting decapped is a mild inconvenience when you're getting a kill out of it.

Your life > the node.

Cynz.9437 · October 12, 2017

Once again, yet another discussion about necros like from months ago. Scourge atm is too good in conquest, denying it is kind of pointless given Anet communication. It will be nerfed and i think it was bad idea to give necros something like this on first place. It is just revs all over again - you get to play with too strong tools for a while and then watch them getting nerfed to oblivion. I don't think anyone enjoys it.I think necros need to make peace with idea that they will be (most likely) always aoe monsters heavily relying on support/peels in team fights and not unstoppable juggernaut like some classes have been in the past. Same way as ele will be probably always support slaves or thieves decap pets.

If i was necro, i would ask for a spec that changes necro role and their gameplay completely without becoming stupidly OP.

@Crinn.7864 : problem is, by the time you kill necro, his team already got quite some points from the capped point (not to mention necro + support don't die so fast on first place) and they will get that point back again (and probably will send few of your teammates to spawn while at it). It is same issue as with DHs before - stacking too well, too much point control and denial.

Crinn.7864 · October 12, 2017

@Cynz.9437 said:Once again, yet another discussion about necros like from months ago. Scourge atm is too good in conquest, denying it is kind of pointless given Anet communication. It will be nerfed and i think it was bad idea to give necros something like this on first place. It is just revs all over again - you get to play with too strong tools for a while and then watch them getting nerfed to oblivion. I don't think anyone enjoys it.I think necros need to make peace with idea that they will be (most likely) always aoe monsters heavily relying on support/peels in team fights and not unstoppable juggernaut like some classes have been in the past. Same way as ele will be probably always support slaves or thieves decap pets.
If i was necro, i would ask for a spec that changes necro role and their gameplay completely without becoming stupidly OP.
@Crinn.7864 : problem is, by the time you kill necro, his team already got quite some points from the capped point (not to mention necro + support don't die so fast on first place) and they will get that point back again (and probably will send few of your teammates to spawn while at it). It is same issue as with DHs before - stacking too well, too much point control and denial.

Except reaper can't bunk a node for a long period, where are you even getting this? A reaper can easily be forced off a node in a short amount of time - the reaper can't self-sustain and thus has to abandon if the reaper plans on not dying.

Besides if a reaper is trying to hold a point then you know he is bad since any halfwit reaper knows that he should never stick around to die.

Unholy Pillager.3791 · October 12, 2017

@Crinn.7864 said:
@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@Crinn.7864 said:
@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...

I really don't know what im gonna say to youYou said your new elite isn't any good but you mentioned you have your dd who already dominating .

In other hand we have only one meta build which is tge scourge and we can't play with the reaper anymore because of all the PoF elite specializations how you compare your class with any other class while yours can outclass any other classes and i mean all your builds are doing great in the current meta.

We only have this build to play with right now and even this build will get nerfed to the bottom

Reaper actually isn't bad against most of the PoF elites. I mean, one of the more dangerous things was moa ending shroud early, and holosmiths can't take it (no toolbelt f5) while mirages typically don't take it (and wouldn't have continuum split for it if they did). Right now, reapers are only weak because scourges are so strong; a reaper on your team is a strong, balanced build taking the place of a ridiculously op build, which is a net loss for your team. I will say that reapers are weak against spellbreakers, but so is almost everyone; spellbreakers need to be toned down just like scourges do. It's weak against deadeyes, but it was also weak against daredevil, wasn't it? Soulbeast likely isn't any stronger against it than druid was (probably less strong, actually). I do admit that I'm not sure about renegade or firebrand.

@silent killer.5732 said:
@Vertep.2498 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Griever.8150 said:Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.
I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.
The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

We are not a support eitherIn the pve it works but in pvpAll we can do is giving 2k barrior and 5k if you stavk with the player you want to lend that barrior to.. And mainly we remove the condi from our allays

And we are not aoe class nor meleeWhat we are idk

But we dont have the survive ability as what the melee classes hasAnd we cant one shot people from distance as what the range classess does

We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

So if everyone cry about how strong the scourge at melee range.

We are totally fine with removing the sand shade and its no longer placeableAnd let us have our death shroud with the sand shade skills on it with 1200 range and thats good again and its only hits one target

You think thats another form of op??

Thats the exact power as the one shot theif with one different. This is condi and the other one is power

and tbh if you have 2 scrouges in team you are mostly in win team if ther is no thieves in enemies and at al arnt they that much playable now because of their insane aoe condi? in every pvp match I see mostly atleast 2 scrouges if not more, rarely see less than 2

so they dont have this mobility and survivability etc...but they have in compensate that high

AOE CONDI

in melee range as its more brainless than DE with unlad spam and if you arnt this SB or guard with condi cleanse nothing will save you from scrouge if you let him catch you in melee range (Im looking at you criple)

its so funny gow this scrouge is "weak" and with this it shoud be unplayabe but thanks to this inconceivable aoe condis we see scrouges in every match and they are dominating classes to win along with warriors

so if we want scrouge with more survivability, mobility etc then we should take away that insane condis from him with range of his aoe's

now the only good counter to this scrouge is just stand in range and killing him becaunse in melee range you will got melted instantly...even condi cleanse wont help you because of his huge range aoe with new condi stacks in just moment

In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too

And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win

Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers

Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

Two thieves on your team is, in my experience, a

disadvantage

, and none of those other options are as strong as dual scourge right now. Not even close.

Except reaper does in fact perform poorly against PoF elites.

Rifle Holosmith will always win against a reaper, the engi will just kite during shroud, and murder the reaper when shroud drops.Mirages easily kills reaper. (granted mirage is a superb duelist in general)Bunker Firebrand is too tanky to be brought down by reaper.Spellbreaker also easily kills reaper 1v1 and in teamfights.Scourge is 50/50, and depends wildly on what utilities the reaper is running.All common thief variants can easily kill a reaper with minimal risk to the thief.Soulbeast, Weaver, and Renegade idk about since I haven't had the opportunity to fight many of them.

It's not just PoF builds either. Both core radiance guardian and core power warrior win against reaper (primarily due to both of those classes having a significant damage advantage over reaper while having better sustain) Druid can of course easily kite a reaper.

You're looking at it in terms of 1v1, despite reaper being a spec optimized for team fights in a team-based game mode. But even looking at 1v1s, you overlooked some things, like the fact that firebrand bunker is too tanky to be killed by just about anyone, and that spellbreaker is difficult to take down for anyone except scourge (saying that reaper is underpowered because it performs poorly against scourge, firebrand and spellbreaker is really stupid;

everything else

performs poorly against those, too, that's why they're considered overpowered). Anything that has to kite reaper to be at all successful is often yielding them the capture point, in a game based around taking and holding those.

The meta is mirage, scourge, bunker firebrand, spellbreaker, and rifle Holo.

Reaper can't win against those, therefore reaper is bad. It doesn't matter how well Reaper can fight off-meta classes when the majority of your opponents will be countering you.

Anything that has to kite reaper to be at all successful is often yielding them the capture point, in a game based around taking and holding those.Getting decapped is a mild inconvenience when you're getting a kill out of it.

Your life > the node.

Scourge, firebrand and spellbreaker should be getting nerfs, allowing reaper to do better against them. In the context of a team fight, reapers should do fine against holosmiths, since those have little condi cleanse compared to scrapper. Almost everything does poorly against mirages in a duel, but that's irrelevant since they are less effective in a team fight, which is where the reaper needs to be.

@Crinn.7864 said:
@Cynz.9437 said:Once again, yet another discussion about necros like from months ago. Scourge atm is too good in conquest, denying it is kind of pointless given Anet communication. It will be nerfed and i think it was bad idea to give necros something like this on first place. It is just revs all over again - you get to play with too strong tools for a while and then watch them getting nerfed to oblivion. I don't think anyone enjoys it.I think necros need to make peace with idea that they will be (most likely) always aoe monsters heavily relying on support/peels in team fights and not unstoppable juggernaut like some classes have been in the past. Same way as ele will be probably always support slaves or thieves decap pets.
If i was necro, i would ask for a spec that changes necro role and their gameplay completely without becoming stupidly OP.
@Crinn.7864 : problem is, by the time you kill necro, his team already got quite some points from the capped point (not to mention necro + support don't die so fast on first place) and they will get that point back again (and probably will send few of your teammates to spawn while at it). It is same issue as with DHs before - stacking too well, too much point control and denial.

Except reaper can't bunk a node for a long period, where are you even getting this? A reaper can easily be forced off a node in a short amount of time - the reaper can't self-sustain and thus has to abandon if the reaper plans on not dying.

Besides if a reaper is trying to hold a point then you know he is bad since any halfwit reaper knows that he should never stick around to die.

Reapers aren't for bunkering, they're for team fight damage. That being said, I've seen my brother win some pretty spectacular 1v2s as reaper.

Besides, you're still under the assumption that nerfs will remove scourge from viability entirely. I'm hoping they split it, putting them in line in PvP while leaving them be in PvE; I fully acknowledge that necromancers need it in PvE. But anyways, I doubt that they'll gut the spec in PvP. They nerfed scrappers over and over without destroying them, and scourges are currently more dominant than scrappers have ever been.

OriOri.8724 · October 12, 2017

@Kiritodatrth.1548 said:Lol... Chrono was broken for 3 years thiefs are broken forever and DH is a broken mechanics, no matter how nerfed it is... and Now comes scourge, the linethat separates the OP for the unsuitable is so thin (due to low defenses) that a small modification can put a class into oblivion, but every mesmer, DH and thief seems to forget that this is a game and today you are on top tomorrow you are not... these are the same ppl who didnt change their utilities bar...Mesmer has a transfer of arcane thievery that is probably the best transfer in the game... if you are playing Condi Mirage with sage you will MELT a scourge in seconds making they pay for they own application... But mesmer is too important and it cannot lose a portal or mobility, then better is to nerf whoever is preventing them to play their 7 buttons push...

Chronomancer hasn't even existed for 3 years

Crinn.7864 · October 12, 2017

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@Crinn.7864 said:
@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@Crinn.7864 said:
@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...

I really don't know what im gonna say to youYou said your new elite isn't any good but you mentioned you have your dd who already dominating .

In other hand we have only one meta build which is tge scourge and we can't play with the reaper anymore because of all the PoF elite specializations how you compare your class with any other class while yours can outclass any other classes and i mean all your builds are doing great in the current meta.

We only have this build to play with right now and even this build will get nerfed to the bottom

Reaper actually isn't bad against most of the PoF elites. I mean, one of the more dangerous things was moa ending shroud early, and holosmiths can't take it (no toolbelt f5) while mirages typically don't take it (and wouldn't have continuum split for it if they did). Right now, reapers are only weak because scourges are so strong; a reaper on your team is a strong, balanced build taking the place of a ridiculously op build, which is a net loss for your team. I will say that reapers are weak against spellbreakers, but so is almost everyone; spellbreakers need to be toned down just like scourges do. It's weak against deadeyes, but it was also weak against daredevil, wasn't it? Soulbeast likely isn't any stronger against it than druid was (probably less strong, actually). I do admit that I'm not sure about renegade or firebrand.

@silent killer.5732 said:
@Vertep.2498 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Griever.8150 said:Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.
I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.
The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

We are not a support eitherIn the pve it works but in pvpAll we can do is giving 2k barrior and 5k if you stavk with the player you want to lend that barrior to.. And mainly we remove the condi from our allays

And we are not aoe class nor meleeWhat we are idk

But we dont have the survive ability as what the melee classes hasAnd we cant one shot people from distance as what the range classess does

We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

So if everyone cry about how strong the scourge at melee range.

We are totally fine with removing the sand shade and its no longer placeableAnd let us have our death shroud with the sand shade skills on it with 1200 range and thats good again and its only hits one target

You think thats another form of op??

Thats the exact power as the one shot theif with one different. This is condi and the other one is power

and tbh if you have 2 scrouges in team you are mostly in win team if ther is no thieves in enemies and at al arnt they that much playable now because of their insane aoe condi? in every pvp match I see mostly atleast 2 scrouges if not more, rarely see less than 2

so they dont have this mobility and survivability etc...but they have in compensate that high

AOE CONDI

in melee range as its more brainless than DE with unlad spam and if you arnt this SB or guard with condi cleanse nothing will save you from scrouge if you let him catch you in melee range (Im looking at you criple)

its so funny gow this scrouge is "weak" and with this it shoud be unplayabe but thanks to this inconceivable aoe condis we see scrouges in every match and they are dominating classes to win along with warriors

so if we want scrouge with more survivability, mobility etc then we should take away that insane condis from him with range of his aoe's

now the only good counter to this scrouge is just stand in range and killing him becaunse in melee range you will got melted instantly...even condi cleanse wont help you because of his huge range aoe with new condi stacks in just moment

In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too

And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win

Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers

Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

Two thieves on your team is, in my experience, a

disadvantage

, and none of those other options are as strong as dual scourge right now. Not even close.

Except reaper does in fact perform poorly against PoF elites.

Rifle Holosmith will always win against a reaper, the engi will just kite during shroud, and murder the reaper when shroud drops.Mirages easily kills reaper. (granted mirage is a superb duelist in general)Bunker Firebrand is too tanky to be brought down by reaper.Spellbreaker also easily kills reaper 1v1 and in teamfights.Scourge is 50/50, and depends wildly on what utilities the reaper is running.All common thief variants can easily kill a reaper with minimal risk to the thief.Soulbeast, Weaver, and Renegade idk about since I haven't had the opportunity to fight many of them.

It's not just PoF builds either. Both core radiance guardian and core power warrior win against reaper (primarily due to both of those classes having a significant damage advantage over reaper while having better sustain) Druid can of course easily kite a reaper.

You're looking at it in terms of 1v1, despite reaper being a spec optimized for team fights in a team-based game mode. But even looking at 1v1s, you overlooked some things, like the fact that firebrand bunker is too tanky to be killed by just about anyone, and that spellbreaker is difficult to take down for anyone except scourge (saying that reaper is underpowered because it performs poorly against scourge, firebrand and spellbreaker is really stupid;

everything else

performs poorly against those, too, that's why they're considered overpowered). Anything that has to kite reaper to be at all successful is often yielding them the capture point, in a game based around taking and holding those.

The meta is mirage, scourge, bunker firebrand, spellbreaker, and rifle Holo.

Reaper can't win against those, therefore reaper is bad. It doesn't matter how well Reaper can fight off-meta classes when the majority of your opponents will be countering you.

Anything that has to kite reaper to be at all successful is often yielding them the capture point, in a game based around taking and holding those.Getting decapped is a mild inconvenience when you're getting a kill out of it.

Your life > the node.

Scourge, firebrand and spellbreaker should be getting nerfs, allowing reaper to do better against them. In the context of a team fight, reapers should do fine against holosmiths, since those have little condi cleanse compared to scrapper. Almost everything does poorly against mirages in a duel, but that's irrelevant since they are less effective in a team fight, which is where the reaper needs to be.

Holosmith's condi clear is irrelevant. Condi reaper does not exist, it dropped out of the solo q meta a year ago, and it was already starting to lose it's hold in the tourney meta even before PoF dropped. Power Reaper is the only reaper type that even has the chance of being a thing. And even if condi reaper was a thing it would still lose to rifle Holosmith because rocket boots kiting. The only reason scourge beats Holosmith is because of the meme worthy damage output.

Besides, you're still under the assumption that nerfs will remove scourge from viability entirely. I'm hoping they split it, putting them in line in PvP while leaving them be in PvE; I fully acknowledge that necromancers need it in PvE. But anyways, I doubt that they'll gut the spec in PvP. They nerfed scrappers over and over without destroying them, and scourges are currently more dominant than scrappers have ever been.

Because the nerfs will remove scourge from viability. Scourge has no sustain, offers no good utility, offers no good support. The only reason scourge is worth jack is because of it's meme worthy damage. It's squishier than procmancer was, and we are in a meta that is even less friendly to squishies than the meta that procmancer existed in.

Unholy Pillager.3791 · October 13, 2017

@Crinn.7864 said:
@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@Crinn.7864 said:
@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@Crinn.7864 said:
@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...

I really don't know what im gonna say to youYou said your new elite isn't any good but you mentioned you have your dd who already dominating .

In other hand we have only one meta build which is tge scourge and we can't play with the reaper anymore because of all the PoF elite specializations how you compare your class with any other class while yours can outclass any other classes and i mean all your builds are doing great in the current meta.

We only have this build to play with right now and even this build will get nerfed to the bottom

Reaper actually isn't bad against most of the PoF elites. I mean, one of the more dangerous things was moa ending shroud early, and holosmiths can't take it (no toolbelt f5) while mirages typically don't take it (and wouldn't have continuum split for it if they did). Right now, reapers are only weak because scourges are so strong; a reaper on your team is a strong, balanced build taking the place of a ridiculously op build, which is a net loss for your team. I will say that reapers are weak against spellbreakers, but so is almost everyone; spellbreakers need to be toned down just like scourges do. It's weak against deadeyes, but it was also weak against daredevil, wasn't it? Soulbeast likely isn't any stronger against it than druid was (probably less strong, actually). I do admit that I'm not sure about renegade or firebrand.

@silent killer.5732 said:
@Vertep.2498 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Griever.8150 said:Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.
I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.
The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

We are not a support eitherIn the pve it works but in pvpAll we can do is giving 2k barrior and 5k if you stavk with the player you want to lend that barrior to.. And mainly we remove the condi from our allays

And we are not aoe class nor meleeWhat we are idk

But we dont have the survive ability as what the melee classes hasAnd we cant one shot people from distance as what the range classess does

We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

So if everyone cry about how strong the scourge at melee range.

We are totally fine with removing the sand shade and its no longer placeableAnd let us have our death shroud with the sand shade skills on it with 1200 range and thats good again and its only hits one target

You think thats another form of op??

Thats the exact power as the one shot theif with one different. This is condi and the other one is power

and tbh if you have 2 scrouges in team you are mostly in win team if ther is no thieves in enemies and at al arnt they that much playable now because of their insane aoe condi? in every pvp match I see mostly atleast 2 scrouges if not more, rarely see less than 2

so they dont have this mobility and survivability etc...but they have in compensate that high

AOE CONDI

in melee range as its more brainless than DE with unlad spam and if you arnt this SB or guard with condi cleanse nothing will save you from scrouge if you let him catch you in melee range (Im looking at you criple)

its so funny gow this scrouge is "weak" and with this it shoud be unplayabe but thanks to this inconceivable aoe condis we see scrouges in every match and they are dominating classes to win along with warriors

so if we want scrouge with more survivability, mobility etc then we should take away that insane condis from him with range of his aoe's

now the only good counter to this scrouge is just stand in range and killing him becaunse in melee range you will got melted instantly...even condi cleanse wont help you because of his huge range aoe with new condi stacks in just moment

In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too

And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win

Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers

Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

Two thieves on your team is, in my experience, a

disadvantage

, and none of those other options are as strong as dual scourge right now. Not even close.

Except reaper does in fact perform poorly against PoF elites.

Rifle Holosmith will always win against a reaper, the engi will just kite during shroud, and murder the reaper when shroud drops.Mirages easily kills reaper. (granted mirage is a superb duelist in general)Bunker Firebrand is too tanky to be brought down by reaper.Spellbreaker also easily kills reaper 1v1 and in teamfights.Scourge is 50/50, and depends wildly on what utilities the reaper is running.All common thief variants can easily kill a reaper with minimal risk to the thief.Soulbeast, Weaver, and Renegade idk about since I haven't had the opportunity to fight many of them.

It's not just PoF builds either. Both core radiance guardian and core power warrior win against reaper (primarily due to both of those classes having a significant damage advantage over reaper while having better sustain) Druid can of course easily kite a reaper.

You're looking at it in terms of 1v1, despite reaper being a spec optimized for team fights in a team-based game mode. But even looking at 1v1s, you overlooked some things, like the fact that firebrand bunker is too tanky to be killed by just about anyone, and that spellbreaker is difficult to take down for anyone except scourge (saying that reaper is underpowered because it performs poorly against scourge, firebrand and spellbreaker is really stupid;

everything else

performs poorly against those, too, that's why they're considered overpowered). Anything that has to kite reaper to be at all successful is often yielding them the capture point, in a game based around taking and holding those.

The meta is mirage, scourge, bunker firebrand, spellbreaker, and rifle Holo.

Reaper can't win against those, therefore reaper is bad. It doesn't matter how well Reaper can fight off-meta classes when the majority of your opponents will be countering you.

Anything that has to kite reaper to be at all successful is often yielding them the capture point, in a game based around taking and holding those.Getting decapped is a mild inconvenience when you're getting a kill out of it.

Your life > the node.

Scourge, firebrand and spellbreaker should be getting nerfs, allowing reaper to do better against them. In the context of a team fight, reapers should do fine against holosmiths, since those have little condi cleanse compared to scrapper. Almost everything does poorly against mirages in a duel, but that's irrelevant since they are less effective in a team fight, which is where the reaper needs to be.

Holosmith's condi clear is irrelevant. Condi reaper does not exist, it dropped out of the solo q meta a year ago, and it was already starting to lose it's hold in the tourney meta even before PoF dropped. Power Reaper is the only reaper type that even has the chance of being a thing. And even if condi reaper was a thing it would still lose to rifle Holosmith because rocket boots kiting. The only reason scourge beats Holosmith is because of the meme worthy damage output.

Besides, you're still under the assumption that nerfs will remove scourge from viability entirely. I'm hoping they split it, putting them in line in PvP while leaving them be in PvE; I fully acknowledge that necromancers need it in PvE. But anyways, I doubt that they'll gut the spec in PvP. They nerfed scrappers over and over without destroying them, and scourges are currently more dominant than scrappers have ever been.

Because the nerfs will remove scourge from viability. Scourge has no sustain, offers no good utility, offers no good support. The only reason scourge is worth jack is because of it's meme worthy damage. It's squishier than procmancer was, and we are in a meta that is even less friendly to squishies than the meta that procmancer existed in.

Amusingly enough, there are no fewer than three reaper builds that metabattle currently rates more highly than any holosmith build. Scourge and spellbreaker are the only things keeping it from being viable, since any build unable to hold its own against at least one of those is not particularly useful in this meta.

Crinn.7864 · October 13, 2017

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@Crinn.7864 said:
@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@Crinn.7864 said:
@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@Crinn.7864 said:
@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...
@Volrath.1473 said:Ok i understand your new elite is not good for PvP. Guess what?! Ours (thieves) is not better...DD still dominate wile DEs are cannon fodder...
So... why would you cry about thieves until they get nerfed?
I don't see the point...
You should be crying for buffs for necro instead...

I really don't know what im gonna say to youYou said your new elite isn't any good but you mentioned you have your dd who already dominating .

In other hand we have only one meta build which is tge scourge and we can't play with the reaper anymore because of all the PoF elite specializations how you compare your class with any other class while yours can outclass any other classes and i mean all your builds are doing great in the current meta.

We only have this build to play with right now and even this build will get nerfed to the bottom

Reaper actually isn't bad against most of the PoF elites. I mean, one of the more dangerous things was moa ending shroud early, and holosmiths can't take it (no toolbelt f5) while mirages typically don't take it (and wouldn't have continuum split for it if they did). Right now, reapers are only weak because scourges are so strong; a reaper on your team is a strong, balanced build taking the place of a ridiculously op build, which is a net loss for your team. I will say that reapers are weak against spellbreakers, but so is almost everyone; spellbreakers need to be toned down just like scourges do. It's weak against deadeyes, but it was also weak against daredevil, wasn't it? Soulbeast likely isn't any stronger against it than druid was (probably less strong, actually). I do admit that I'm not sure about renegade or firebrand.

@silent killer.5732 said:
@Vertep.2498 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
@Griever.8150 said:Thieves don't render unplayable any spec the way Scourge does to my Scrapper so moot point.
I personally don't want Scourge nerfed to dust and wouldn't mind seeing them buffed defensively in exchange of not seeing them wipe out entire teams on their own.
The damage they output is just too much for what is supposed to be a support build.

We are not a support eitherIn the pve it works but in pvpAll we can do is giving 2k barrior and 5k if you stavk with the player you want to lend that barrior to.. And mainly we remove the condi from our allays

And we are not aoe class nor meleeWhat we are idk

But we dont have the survive ability as what the melee classes hasAnd we cant one shot people from distance as what the range classess does

We only have this thing. We destroy everything in our 300 radies . Except for the spellbreaker for sure.

So if everyone cry about how strong the scourge at melee range.

We are totally fine with removing the sand shade and its no longer placeableAnd let us have our death shroud with the sand shade skills on it with 1200 range and thats good again and its only hits one target

You think thats another form of op??

Thats the exact power as the one shot theif with one different. This is condi and the other one is power

and tbh if you have 2 scrouges in team you are mostly in win team if ther is no thieves in enemies and at al arnt they that much playable now because of their insane aoe condi? in every pvp match I see mostly atleast 2 scrouges if not more, rarely see less than 2

so they dont have this mobility and survivability etc...but they have in compensate that high

AOE CONDI

in melee range as its more brainless than DE with unlad spam and if you arnt this SB or guard with condi cleanse nothing will save you from scrouge if you let him catch you in melee range (Im looking at you criple)

its so funny gow this scrouge is "weak" and with this it shoud be unplayabe but thanks to this inconceivable aoe condis we see scrouges in every match and they are dominating classes to win along with warriors

so if we want scrouge with more survivability, mobility etc then we should take away that insane condis from him with range of his aoe's

now the only good counter to this scrouge is just stand in range and killing him becaunse in melee range you will got melted instantly...even condi cleanse wont help you because of his huge range aoe with new condi stacks in just moment

In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too

And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win

Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers

Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

Two thieves on your team is, in my experience, a

disadvantage

, and none of those other options are as strong as dual scourge right now. Not even close.

Except reaper does in fact perform poorly against PoF elites.

Rifle Holosmith will always win against a reaper, the engi will just kite during shroud, and murder the reaper when shroud drops.Mirages easily kills reaper. (granted mirage is a superb duelist in general)Bunker Firebrand is too tanky to be brought down by reaper.Spellbreaker also easily kills reaper 1v1 and in teamfights.Scourge is 50/50, and depends wildly on what utilities the reaper is running.All common thief variants can easily kill a reaper with minimal risk to the thief.Soulbeast, Weaver, and Renegade idk about since I haven't had the opportunity to fight many of them.

It's not just PoF builds either. Both core radiance guardian and core power warrior win against reaper (primarily due to both of those classes having a significant damage advantage over reaper while having better sustain) Druid can of course easily kite a reaper.

You're looking at it in terms of 1v1, despite reaper being a spec optimized for team fights in a team-based game mode. But even looking at 1v1s, you overlooked some things, like the fact that firebrand bunker is too tanky to be killed by just about anyone, and that spellbreaker is difficult to take down for anyone except scourge (saying that reaper is underpowered because it performs poorly against scourge, firebrand and spellbreaker is really stupid;

everything else

performs poorly against those, too, that's why they're considered overpowered). Anything that has to kite reaper to be at all successful is often yielding them the capture point, in a game based around taking and holding those.

The meta is mirage, scourge, bunker firebrand, spellbreaker, and rifle Holo.

Reaper can't win against those, therefore reaper is bad. It doesn't matter how well Reaper can fight off-meta classes when the majority of your opponents will be countering you.

Anything that has to kite reaper to be at all successful is often yielding them the capture point, in a game based around taking and holding those.Getting decapped is a mild inconvenience when you're getting a kill out of it.

Your life > the node.

Scourge, firebrand and spellbreaker should be getting nerfs, allowing reaper to do better against them. In the context of a team fight, reapers should do fine against holosmiths, since those have little condi cleanse compared to scrapper. Almost everything does poorly against mirages in a duel, but that's irrelevant since they are less effective in a team fight, which is where the reaper needs to be.

Holosmith's condi clear is irrelevant. Condi reaper does not exist, it dropped out of the solo q meta a year ago, and it was already starting to lose it's hold in the tourney meta even before PoF dropped. Power Reaper is the only reaper type that even has the chance of being a thing. And even if condi reaper was a thing it would still lose to rifle Holosmith because rocket boots kiting. The only reason scourge beats Holosmith is because of the meme worthy damage output.

Besides, you're still under the assumption that nerfs will remove scourge from viability entirely. I'm hoping they split it, putting them in line in PvP while leaving them be in PvE; I fully acknowledge that necromancers need it in PvE. But anyways, I doubt that they'll gut the spec in PvP. They nerfed scrappers over and over without destroying them, and scourges are currently more dominant than scrappers have ever been.

Because the nerfs will remove scourge from viability. Scourge has no sustain, offers no good utility, offers no good support. The only reason scourge is worth jack is because of it's meme worthy damage. It's squishier than procmancer was, and we are in a meta that is even less friendly to squishies than the meta that procmancer existed in.

Amusingly enough, there are no fewer than three reaper builds that metabattle currently rates more highly than any holosmith build. Scourge and spellbreaker are the only things keeping it from being viable, since any build unable to hold its own against at least one of those is not particularly useful in this meta.

Metabattle still claims Procmancer is a thing, despite the fact that procmancer died when Hydromancy and Geomancy sigils where removed from the game.

Metabattle also claims that a full wells build is a thing despite the fact that well builds having literally never been meta ever.

Metabattle is a joke that should never be used at a measurement of the meta.

Kaga.7629 · October 13, 2017

@Crinn.7864 said:Metabattle is a joke that should never be used at a measurement of the meta.

Booyakasha my friend!Metabattle is horrible indeed, because it allows people to dictate what other people should bring. No figuring things out for yourself, making you a better player. Nope.... just plug and play, No brain required!

I wish i could Eviscerate the Metabattle + PvXwiki krew(from gw1)with a bag of diltoes for the dumbness they've brought to both games. Poo on those snarky scumbags.

Bigpapasmurf.5623 · October 13, 2017

@Crinn.7864 said:The only reason scourge beats Holosmith is because of the meme worthy damage output.

Actually its mainly the boons it outputs that they can corrupt. You can lower the overall DPS of scourge by 40% and a scourge will still beat holo because of their boons. Tasty Tasty Boons.

Omcrazy.4756 · October 13, 2017

@silent killer.5732 said:
In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too
And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win
Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers
Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

Dude, are you drunk? Stacking scourge >>>> anything else except maybe Spellbreaker.

When the meta basically revolves around how to handle one single class you know that class is OP. Right now rangers and DEs are popular because they are an answer to Scourge. Most pre-POF melee specs would make short work of either but you can't play those because of Scourge. FB Bunker is popular because it helps your team live longer than 2 seconds in melee range of a Scourge. Almost never see mesmers or elementalists. Engineers have gotten rare as well but the only competent ones I've seen have been rifle (because Scourge makes Scrapper obsolete).

Even Spellbreakers, which I think are a bit overtuned, aren't basically dictating team compositions and are powerful mainly because they can survive the Scourge condi pressure.

9 times out of 10 when the teams have an unbalanced number of Scourges the team with the most Scourges has won. When your best strategy as a scourge player is to queue as something else and then swap to Scourge you know it needs work.

Scourge doesn't even just dictate what classes/builds are able to be viable now. It even dictates what maps to vote for. Got Forest? Hope your team has the most Scourge.

I fully support getting them a bit tankier, maybe improving the barrier mechanic. But the damage they put out is oppressive. Its not a single AOE that goes on CD and might miss. It is just a layer put over the point and the only viable solution is to try and kill him at range while he decaps.

silent killer.5732 · October 13, 2017

@Omcrazy.4756 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too
And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win
Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers
Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

Dude, are you drunk? Stacking scourge >>>> anything else except maybe Spellbreaker.

When the meta basically revolves around how to handle one single class you know that class is OP. Right now rangers and DEs are popular because they are an answer to Scourge. Most pre-POF melee specs would make short work of either but you can't play those because of Scourge. FB Bunker is popular because it helps your team live longer than 2 seconds in melee range of a Scourge. Almost never see mesmers or elementalists. Engineers have gotten rare as well but the only competent ones I've seen have been rifle (because Scourge makes Scrapper obsolete).

Even Spellbreakers, which I think are a bit overtuned, aren't basically dictating team compositions and are powerful mainly because they can survive the Scourge condi pressure.

9 times out of 10 when the teams have an unbalanced number of Scourges the team with the most Scourges has won. When your best strategy as a scourge player is to queue as something else and then swap to Scourge you know it needs work.

Scourge doesn't even just dictate what classes/builds are able to be viable now. It even dictates what maps to vote for. Got Forest? Hope your team has the most Scourge.

I fully support getting them a bit tankier, maybe improving the barrier mechanic. But the damage they put out is oppressive. Its not a single AOE that goes on CD and might miss. It is just a layer put over the point and the only viable solution is to try and kill him at range while he decaps.

What are you talking about

I said scourge beats almost every melee classess and you just said the same except you called me an drunk for saying that?

And literally you said rangers are most popular now because they can kill the scourges ans thats what i already said

Scourges are extremely weak against aoe classes

What's your point tho you didn't say anything new except im drunk for saying we as scourge beats most of the melee ranged classess

silent killer.5732 · October 13, 2017

@Omcrazy.4756 said:
@silent killer.5732 said:
In melee range only means we can kill most of the melee classes and we CAN'T do anything to the ranged classes too
And about the two scourges equal one guarantee win
Thats the same with twi thieves or two guardens or two rangers or two eles mesmers
Its means nothing to say to scourges means one win

Dude, are you drunk? Stacking scourge >>>> anything else except maybe Spellbreaker.

When the meta basically revolves around how to handle one single class you know that class is OP. Right now rangers and DEs are popular because they are an answer to Scourge. Most pre-POF melee specs would make short work of either but you can't play those because of Scourge. FB Bunker is popular because it helps your team live longer than 2 seconds in melee range of a Scourge. Almost never see mesmers or elementalists. Engineers have gotten rare as well but the only competent ones I've seen have been rifle (because Scourge makes Scrapper obsolete).

Even Spellbreakers, which I think are a bit overtuned, aren't basically dictating team compositions and are powerful mainly because they can survive the Scourge condi pressure.

9 times out of 10 when the teams have an unbalanced number of Scourges the team with the most Scourges has won. When your best strategy as a scourge player is to queue as something else and then swap to Scourge you know it needs work.

Scourge doesn't even just dictate what classes/builds are able to be viable now. It even dictates what maps to vote for. Got Forest? Hope your team has the most Scourge.

I fully support getting them a bit tankier, maybe improving the barrier mechanic. But the damage they put out is oppressive. Its not a single AOE that goes on CD and might miss. It is just a layer put over the point and the only viable solution is to try and kill him at range while he decaps.

And btw you said the team with more scorge won 9 of 10Have you ever played in a match with two thieves or two rangers vs two scourges?

One good thief or ranger would own full team of scourges and i mean it because i has been beaten by high level range players even with two scourges in my team

Ita a class with glass life bar and exposed by everyone who can attack from distance

Necros community..

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